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DSP— Apollo AND SoundGrid? Mixers (Digital)
Old 22nd October 2018
  #31
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synetos View Post
Okay...I will try to help make sense of what is happening.

BTW-You can run the AutoConfigure wizard to help get things initially setup.

1. The Mixer is if you have soundgrid DSP server or an IOS. You dont. Yes it opens and you see the tab for a few seconds then it goes away because you have no servers attached.

2. One of your interfaces has to be the clock master. Click on the down arrow and "set Master"

3. You need to have IP Version 6 running on your network interface card. The card is specified in the Network Port - LAN area

4. RACK B is for your DAW(s). Probably wont see any to add if you dont have the LAN part setup right.

*FYI- I have 4 Network cards in my DAW. I have one dedicated to Soundgrid. I recommend that.

5. Once all that is setup, you then need to click on the PATCH tab and setup the connects in the Device to Device matrix.

* I saw a video once on youtube that suggested thinking of this as how water flows. From point to point. This is usually where people start scratching their headset frustrated. If you can stick with it to get your head wrapped around it, the light will go on and you will see just how powerful this thing can be when you have multiple DAW machines and interfaces all interconnected.

There are lots of videos on Waves Learn and on YouTube that should be able to assist you.

When I bought my first X32 mixer, it was stupid hard for me to wrap my head around the routing. This reminds me of that experience, initially. Once you get it, you may just love it.
Ok, you are so very kind but...I'm sorry, I'm on mac high sierra and there is no wizard, thus I know pretty much nothing about networking.

The IV6 seems to be enabled in my system preferences (as it is by default).

When I auto config on waves studio if takes me to en5-ibridge and it cannot sync.

I tried to switch to en7 - USB and there it synchronizes (to what, I cannot understand it). Although, probably because the port might be wrong I can only see the name of my computer and not any daw.

Anyway, I'm not even sure what I have to look for and what to do with soundgrid studio, should I use it as a replacement of the "Total Mix"? Without faders?

Cheers
Old 22nd October 2018
  #32
Gear Head
 

Okay, I am not to sure about configuring a Mac, since I no longer have one. I run Windows 10 and Cubase.

The Name of your computer will show up, not your daw.

I guess I never tried to configure it without a soundgrid device of some kind.

You could try calling waves tech support. They helped me when I was having trouble with my X-WSG card config. Tell them what you are trying to do as an eval before pulling the trigger on the Burl card. They have always been very responsive when i needed help.

Soundgrid becomes your audio driver on your DAW.

Last edited by Synetos; 22nd October 2018 at 10:31 PM.. Reason: added last comment
Old 10th November 2018
  #33
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synetos View Post
Okay...I will try to help make sense of what is happening.
Hi, I finally got my bmb4 soundgrid burl system. I configure it and I can only make it work the input (recording). No output going to the Da.

Would you help me one more time looking at my settings?

Imgur: The magic of the Internet
Old 10th November 2018
  #34
Gear Head
 

I/O settings look okay, but what are you trying to play back? Where are your speakers attached? Same ports you have routed back from DAW to burl? All that sort of thing.

If you are trying to playback audio from the Web or something, outside you DAW, that might be more complex to guess from here. On a Windows box, the WDM driver plays back on outputs 1&2 with the sound grid driver.

I have had much success with Waves support. I would probably call support and they will remote into your computer and figure out the issue.
Old 11th November 2018
  #35
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synetos View Post
I/O settings look okay, but what are you trying to play back? Where are your speakers attached? Same ports you have routed back from DAW to burl? All that sort of thing.

If you are trying to playback audio from the Web or something, outside you DAW, that might be more complex to guess from here. On a Windows box, the WDM driver plays back on outputs 1&2 with the sound grid driver.

I have had much success with Waves support. I would probably call support and they will remote into your computer and figure out the issue.
Hi Synetos,

You have to consider that before having the SG I had the madi module. So everything outside the computer should not be implied at all as it worked perfectly.
But it’s a great thing if waves can remotely check the computer.

Thank you for all the support you gave me!

Cheers
Mauro
Old 18th November 2018
  #36
Gear Nut
Hi Synetos,

I managed to have it work myself (as they never replied me...too bad). Now, I'm wondering if it is possible to create a direct monitoring setup. Thing is, I cannot see the mixer as I don't own any waves device. If this will not be possible it is going to be a big disadvantage compared to the rme system.

Cheers
Old 19th November 2018
  #37
Gear Head
 

Great to hear you figured it out. I guess I dont know what to say about no response from support. That has not been my experience.

Not sure what your work flow is, but I do all my monitoring from within the DAW. I run Cubase and use CUE sends. I have never had the need to run monitoring outside my DAW environment.

For my band rig, I still run Cubase, but I send 32 channels of audio to a Midas M32C using X-WSG card, That way the whole band can do their own IEM mixes. I then patch the card outputs for the stereo IEM mixes to the headphone outputs on my IOX's. It works fantastic! Super quiet with now hiss. Before I got the M32C, I used and X32R and a headphone amp. Worked too, but it was noiser.

I would run my monitoring the same if I decide to use LV1 for my system. I just have to add the extreme server. But, I have been happy with the performance and flexibility of Cubase that I havent gone that route...yet.

Even when I ran my RME setup, I did my monitor cues the same way. I always had powerful computers that I could push hard at low latency. I run 48k/64samples or 48/128 depending on what I am doing.

Hope that is useful. Btw- what was the resolution to the routing issue?
Old 19th November 2018
  #38
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synetos View Post
Great to hear you figured it out. I guess I dont know what to say about no response from support. That has not been my experience.

Even when I ran my RME setup, I did my monitor cues the same way. I always had powerful computers that I could push hard at low latency. I run 48k/64samples or 48/128 depending on what I am doing.

Hope that is useful. Btw- what was the resolution to the routing issue?
Him

Thank you for your attempt to help me. My set up is much simpler as I don't record bands, I only produce myself at the moment, but I cannot figure it out how to have minimal latency.

I solved the setting problem by removing, from the burl soundgrid unit, 2 bumpers they added in the last modules. Basically the computer configuration was all fine.

I think I was not entitled to Waves support as I don't own any of their device, which is really bad, as I anyway own one their licensed soundgrid device.

Cheers
Old 19th November 2018
  #39
Gear Head
 

Glad you figured it out yourself. Best way to learn.

What is your round trip latency?
What are you tracking?
How are you getting your headphone mix?

Maybe you can describe your signal chain, from mic to your ears.
What is going on in between?

@ 48/64 my Round trip latency is only 4.833ms. I do not add a ton of effects when I am tracking, so I do not have any issues when I record. Usually, just a little reverb. I do everything else, after I have my raw tracks. I also can track with a cue mix from other things I already recorded, and still have no issues.

I might bump to 48/128 if I am going to do a large amount of effects or VST stuff. Then my latency is 7.5ms, which is still not a problem for overdubbing with my setup.
Old 19th November 2018
  #40
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synetos View Post
Glad you figured it out yourself. Best way to learn.

What is your round trip latency?
What are you tracking?
How are you getting your headphone mix?

Maybe you can describe your signal chain, from mic to your ears.
What is going on in between?

@ 48/64 my Round trip latency is only 4.833ms. I do not add a ton of effects when I am tracking, so I do not have any issues when I record. Usually, just a little reverb. I do everything else, after I have my raw tracks. I also can track with a cue mix from other things I already recorded, and still have no issues.

I might bump to 48/128 if I am going to do a large amount of effects or VST stuff. Then my latency is 7.5ms, which is still not a problem for overdubbing with my setup.
My trip latency is 86 and it is a very simple recording set up Mic-Pre-Burl-Computer- Control room- headphones. I don't use cues for the headphone.

Although, differently from you, I record when some heavy plugins might still be in. Using Reaper, which doesn't have a proper low latency mode, I'm forced to bypass all those plugs.

With the RME total mixer I could create a direct monitoring all by software. Very comfortable.

I was actually expecting the added latency to be lower, but I'm all but an expert of those tech issues.
Old 19th November 2018
  #41
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synetos View Post
Glad you figured it out yourself. Best way to learn.


@ 48/64 my Round trip latency is only 4.833ms. I do not add a ton of effects when I am tracking, so I do not have any issues when I record. Usually, just a little reverb. I do everything else, after I have my raw tracks. I also can track with a cue mix from other things I already recorded, and still have no issues.
looking at your data I am very surprised about my round trip latency...so high.
How is this possible? I indeed record at 44 - 128
Old 26th November 2018
  #42
Gear Head
 

How are you routing to Headphones? MacBook headphone jack? Burl?

Shut off all plugins and then see what your latency is.

Maybe something in Reaper settings? 86 is impossible to record live over dubs...at least for me.
Old 27th November 2018
  #43
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synetos View Post
How are you routing to Headphones? MacBook headphone jack? Burl?

Shut off all plugins and then see what your latency is.

Maybe something in Reaper settings? 86 is impossible to record live over dubs...at least for me.
It is in fact impossible. I thought I would have had an improvement but I got worse...much worse.
As said my set up is simple. I tested the 86 sample latency on an empty song, with no plugs. Go figure!

Any advice?
Old 27th November 2018
  #44
Gear Head
 

Well, you still have not answered my routing question.

If I am going to try and help you find it, you need to give me the specifics I am asking for, not just generalizations. Something is setup wrong, somewhere. Let's start with a few questions.

What is the Sample Rate set to soungrid system inventory page?

In soundgrid studio-Setup-Settings, what is the soundgrid driver buffer set to for network and asio?

In Reaper, what is your preference settings for Audio System, ASIO Driver, and what do you see when you click on the ASIO Configuration button?

In Reaper project settings, what is the project sample rate?
Old 7th December 2018
  #45
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synetos View Post
Well, you still have not answered my routing question.

If I am going to try and help you find it, you need to give me the specifics I am asking for, not just generalizations. Something is setup wrong, somewhere. Let's start with a few questions.

What is the Sample Rate set to soungrid system inventory page?

In soundgrid studio-Setup-Settings, what is the soundgrid driver buffer set to for network and asio?

In Reaper, what is your preference settings for Audio System, ASIO Driver, and what do you see when you click on the ASIO Configuration button?

In Reaper project settings, what is the project sample rate?
Hi, first I want to thank you to be so helpful for the quick support you give me. I had some problems and couldn't reply earlier, although, I found better settings and I could manage a developer to create a latency action to bypass plugins that have a higher latency than......

Your questions:
"In soundgrid studio-Setup-Settings, what is the soundgrid driver buffer set to for network and asio? "
network 192 Asio I cannot find such a thing

"In Reaper, what is your preference settings for Audio System, ASIO Driver, and what do you see when you click on the ASIO Configuration button?"
In reaper for mac, what you call asio should be called "audio device" and is set to waves soundgrid" where I can only see sample rate and "request block size" which I when I record I tend to set between 128 and 264. I don't see anything that concern the network there.

I record at 44.1

I hope this can help you even better setting my system up as, for the moment, I was definitely expecting better results.

Thank you so much.

Cheers
Mauro
Old 7th December 2018
  #46
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synetos View Post

What is the Sample Rate set to soungrid system inventory page?
Ok, I just realize that maybe you want to have also this data: in the system inventory speed network port is 10Gbps
the wgs buffer is set to 40 samples 0.9 ms. Sample rate is slave.

I think this is all data I have.

Thank you!
Old 7th December 2018
  #47
Gear Head
 

My bad, ASIO is a Windows thing. You are on Mac, so you wont see that field in teh soundgrid driver buffer settings. You can drop the network setting to the lowest of 104. That shaves off about 2ms on my system. Try a lower buffer setting like 64. I run my rig at 104/64.

Do you have a 1GB Network card option you could try? Not sure that 10GB is supported. You also might have to tweak that connection in the driver to make it work right. Also, make that Soundgrid network card IP Version 6 only. No other traffic can be going across that network card.

I still do not know how you are hearing the audio. What else is in your Mothership, other than the BMB4?
Old 7th December 2018
  #48
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synetos View Post
My bad, ASIO is a Windows thing. You are on Mac, so you wont see that field in teh soundgrid driver buffer settings. You can drop the network setting to the lowest of 104. That shaves off about 2ms on my system. Try a lower buffer setting like 64. I run my rig at 104/64.

Do you have a 1GB Network card option you could try? Not sure that 10GB is supported. You also might have to tweak that connection in the driver to make it work right. Also, make that Soundgrid network card IP Version 6 only. No other traffic can be going across that network card.

I still do not know how you are hearing the audio. What else is in your Mothership, other than the BMB4?
Thank you, I lowered it to 104, but normally if I set the driver to 64 i have problems. I will try.

Not sure about network card. I have connected the bmb4 directly into an ethernet plugs, which comes from a single usb-c plug of the computer.

My system has 16 outputs and only 4 ins. They go to a couple of patch bays where the monitoring channels are lead to a Drawmer mc2. From its dedicated headphones output the signal goes into the small recording room to the headphones.
Very straightforward.

Only when I mix I start inserting outboards that is leaded to a B32 summing machine that, at the end, brings the signal back into the the daw (after last master inserts).

But I guess, this last part is more for the sake of curiosity that for the problem itself, as I don't use them while recording.

I will let you know how is going with the new settings.

Thanks
Old 2 weeks ago
  #49
Here for the gear
 
dmstudio's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synetos View Post
Here is another option:

Soundgrid Studio will let you connect multiple DAW machines, and multiple I/O devices. You setup your DAW to run with Soundgrid ASIO driver, and they all talk.
You can patch any IO (physical or software) you want, in any way you want.

Here is an example of what I did.

I have my main DAW running soundgrid studio. I have the soundgrid driver running on another machine. In this case, they are both running Cubase, but they could run any daw or plugin host software and still be setup to talk to one another.

On my main Cubase DAW, I created an External Effect. I route it out of my main DAW and into my second daw machine, and then back into my DAW. I basically just created an external FX rack.

This matters, because I can now insert that internal External FX plug into a audio channel or an FX channel and run any effect I want. This is sort of like waves multirack concept, but now I am not limited to waves plugs.

In my setup, the FX Loop adds 3ms of RT latency (plus plug latency), according to Cubase. But...i get delay compensation now in Cubase.

I also own the DigiGrid IOS, and it works great for what it does. But, it limits me to Waves plugs. Using the Soundgrid ASIO driver the way I described opens up additional options for offloading none Waves plugs.

I sent you a PM
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