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MOTU 828es--Any impressions?
Old 18th September 2020 | Show parent
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by szyam View Post
Curious if anyone is clocking the Motu from a dangerous convert or burl ad? Also is syncing two motu’s Via avb and summing, and issues from latency?
I don’t notice any latency syncing an lp32 and a 8pre-es, but my signal flow (except monitoring which is direct from the MOTU mixer ) is unidirectional, so it is designed for me not to notice.
Old 18th September 2020 | Show parent
  #242
Quote:
Originally Posted by gminorcoles View Post
I don’t notice any latency syncing an lp32 and a 8pre-es, but my signal flow (except monitoring which is direct from the MOTU mixer ) is unidirectional, so it is designed for me not to notice.
OK cool, thanks. I usually use Pipeline in studio one, that pings the return and can handle syncing everything when incorporating hardware. It just dawned on me that if I used a Motu 828es and an 8a that one would have a little latency on it but if I was summing there would be no return ping since it would all be coming back on a summed 2 track... so wasn't sure if this would any kind of an issue? I know we're talking about a couple ms so I guess as long as multi-tracked stuff isnt split up it should be cool, but really enjoy knowing everything is synced on the timeline as it should be...
Old 18th September 2020 | Show parent
  #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by szyam View Post
OK cool, thanks. I usually use Pipeline in studio one, that pings the return and can handle syncing everything when incorporating hardware. It just dawned on me that if I used a Motu 828es and an 8a that one would have a little latency on it but if I was summing there would be no return ping since it would all be coming back on a summed 2 track... so wasn't sure if this would any kind of an issue? I know we're talking about a couple ms so I guess as long as multi-tracked stuff isnt split up it should be cool, but really enjoy knowing everything is synced on the timeline as it should be...
In terms of what Motu expects, latency-wise, over its AVB connection, i don’t think it is a couple ms, I think it is below 1 ms, but you could probably get them to tell,you, they are pretty forthcoming.
Old 18th September 2020 | Show parent
  #244
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gminorcoles View Post
In terms of what Motu expects, latency-wise, over its AVB connection, i don’t think it is a couple ms, I think it is below 1 ms, but you could probably get them to tell,you, they are pretty forthcoming.
They quote it at 0.6ms, even over as many as 7 "hops" with chained AVB switches.
Old 22nd September 2020
  #245
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Tnsl's Avatar
Which is the newest audio interface from Motu? Except M2 and M4...I am interested in the avb series
Old 22nd September 2020 | Show parent
  #246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnsl View Post
What is the newest audio interface from Motu? Except M2 and M4...I am interested in the avb series
I believe its the 828es actually? Could be wrong though, they have such a huge lineup. I'm hoping for a 16a refresh from them soon, but not holing my breath. Would like to see them upgrade the panel screen like the 8a/624 as well as thunderbolt 3/USB C. Spdif or aes would be lovely too...
Old 22nd September 2020 | Show parent
  #247
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnsl View Post
What is the newest audio interface from Motu? Except M2 and M4...I am interested in the avb series
The 8PRE-ES was the lastest AVB product released in the line up. The M2/M4 was released a year after the 8PRE-ES. The 828ES came out in 2017. I'm curious if MOTU would offer long term driver support for the M series that's more on the Prosumer side. MOTU has a history of supporting its products for a very long time like RME, mainly due to MOTUs hardware being more marketed towards the professional market but also they develope drivers In-house unlike other manufactures that relies on 3rd party developers. The original Motu 828 firewire interface that came out in year 2000 still made drivers for that thing all the way up to 2017 which is alot of years of driver support. I expect to see the AVB line still supported in the next 10 years.
Old 22nd September 2020
  #248
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Tnsl's Avatar
Is it mentioned anywhere that with the 8A , the main output should be output 1 and 2? Or main out can be simply any of the out pairs
Old 23rd September 2020
  #249
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
I was quite startled to discover that when the main output for the 828es is assigned to its S/PDIF output you no longer have volume control. Correction: everyone for a few blocks in every direction was likely as surprised as I was. My monitors are rather uncomfortably loud with unattenuated output, but thankfully appear to be unharmed! Has anyone with a similar target configuration found an acceptable workaround?
Old 24th September 2020
  #250
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🎧 5 years
Attenuating a digital output means affecting bit depth. You really don’t want to do that.

What are you trying to accomplish? Does your monitor system not have an analog input?
Old 24th September 2020 | Show parent
  #251
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by infindebula View Post
Attenuating a digital output means affecting bit depth. You really don’t want to do that.
Ideally, no. In practice 24-bit signals rarely represent more than ~20 bits of meaningful signal so I'm not that bent out of shape about not monitoring the low-level noise that's present. Your point is well taken, though, and I could see it if that were the industry standard approach. Curiously, though, I do have other gear that is perfectly happy to attenuate its digital output so it's not exactly a hard and fast rule. The Line-6 Helix does so, for instance.

Quote:
What are you trying to accomplish? Does your monitor system not have an analog input?
Of course, and so that's what I expect to go ahead and cable for with balanced cables. The input is to a subwoofer that does work in the digital domain anyway before feeding signals to the left/right channels so ideally I'd be bypassing one DAC/ADC round trip. And of course I'm ultimately relying on the high-quality DAC in the subwoofer in either case, and by feeding the ADC an attenuated analog signal I'm not taking advantage of its full range, either.
Old 24th September 2020 | Show parent
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
Ideally, no. In practice 24-bit signals rarely represent more than ~20 bits of meaningful signal so I'm not that bent out of shape about not monitoring the low-level noise that's present. Your point is well taken, though, and I could see it if that were the industry standard approach. Curiously, though, I do have other gear that is perfectly happy to attenuate its digital output so it's not exactly a hard and fast rule. The Line-6 Helix does so, for instance.



Of course, and so that's what I expect to go ahead and cable for with balanced cables. The input is to a subwoofer that does work in the digital domain anyway before feeding signals to the left/right channels so ideally I'd be bypassing one DAC/ADC round trip. And of course I'm ultimately relying on the high-quality DAC in the subwoofer in either case, and by feeding the ADC an attenuated analog signal I'm not taking advantage of its full range, either.
Well could you maybe route the signal through the mixer on the Motu then back out the digital out using the routing matrix?
Old 25th September 2020 | Show parent
  #253
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gminorcoles View Post
Well could you maybe route the signal through the mixer on the Motu then back out the digital out using the routing matrix?
Yeah, I'm sure I could turn the mixer levels down - I have just gotten used to using the front panel volume in another setup where I'm relying on the analog outs and was curious whether anyone was aware of a way to tame digital outputs that had the same characteristics. Switching my plans to use analog outs isn't a big deal, it just came as a mild surprise.

Thanks for the thoughts.
Old 30th September 2020
  #254
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
I want to warn someone who buys this interface and upgrades from previous MOTU interfaces as I had a verrrry long troubleshooting. In my case what happened is that any USB ports that were used for previous (Ultralite) interface just doesn't work with new interface and it needs a 'fresh' USB port to be able to communicate as there's some kind of driver issue. I thought I was going to lose my mind as I saw some people needed to reinstall Windows to use the interface. I have tried everything, different cable, different port (but one that was used for Ultralite as well at some point), all kind of driver deletion/reinstalls, safe mode, etc. nothing helped. I'm happy I have a desktop PC so not so shabby on USB ports but someone with a laptop be aware if you used another MOTU interface before you need to be ready to reinstall Windows if you have a similar issue.
Old 1st October 2020
  #255
Gear Head
 
I have just purchased a 828es. In between dispatch and delivery I started reading the manual where I read about the outputs not being cross coupled.First time I have ever heard anything about this so please excuse my ignorance. I'am intending on using the interface not for just recording but also processing computer audio with unbalanced outboard equipment and also on occasion sending multiple outs to a dj mixer with unbalanced rca connections for live use/jam sessions with friends. The manual instructs me to only use TRS to unbalanced with floating ring and never TS cables.
My question is will I damage the interface using trs to trs without floating the ring ? and will I damage the interface using TS to rca cable?
i have had a look around the internet for retailers in the UK that supply cables with floating ring and all I can find is 1/4"trs to 3/8" ts with floating ring for use with eurorack cv. The thought of having several of these cables custom made feels kind of absurd, again this may be my ignorance.
Old 1st October 2020 | Show parent
  #256
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
I don't believe you'll damage your unit with line-level voltages, but you may well get sub-optimal results. I immediately found that some of my older outboard gear was sounding overdriven as a result, and started my search for the perfect cable source. It turns out the custom cables were easy enough to order and I've been delighted with the results.

Here's the thread documenting my investigation. Or just click this link to bring up the exact configuration I placed an order for.
Old 1st October 2020 | Show parent
  #257
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by rookas View Post
I want to warn someone who buys this interface and upgrades from previous MOTU interfaces as I had a verrrry long troubleshooting. In my case what happened is that any USB ports that were used for previous (Ultralite) interface just doesn't work with new interface and it needs a 'fresh' USB port to be able to communicate as there's some kind of driver issue. I thought I was going to lose my mind as I saw some people needed to reinstall Windows to use the interface. I have tried everything, different cable, different port (but one that was used for Ultralite as well at some point), all kind of driver deletion/reinstalls, safe mode, etc. nothing helped. I'm happy I have a desktop PC so not so shabby on USB ports but someone with a laptop be aware if you used another MOTU interface before you need to be ready to reinstall Windows if you have a similar issue.
The Pro Audio Drivers are entirely different from the older Motu legacy stuff as I don't see the reason why you had issues. They have nothing in common. AVB line has no control mix software that you install on the computer like the legacy CueMix.
Old 2nd October 2020 | Show parent
  #258
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 360studios15 View Post
The Pro Audio Drivers are entirely different from the older Motu legacy stuff as I don't see the reason why you had issues. They have nothing in common. AVB line has no control mix software that you install on the computer like the legacy CueMix.
Yes, this doesnt make sense to me but is the only way I can explain this. Its clearly a driver issue as windows shows an error (corrupted error/device malfunctioned). I have spent so many hours on that its crazy.. some people in this threas jad to reinstall windows to see the interface and that suggests to me that they needed to clear older drivers.

I might be wrong of course, just wanted to warn people to be aware to try out a port which is ‘fresh’.

In general Im a big fan of MOTU but their support has been silent and have not replied yet..
Old 2nd October 2020
  #259
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Tnsl's Avatar
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Old 4th October 2020 | Show parent
  #260
Gear Nut
 
HCMarkus's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamac View Post
I have just purchased a 828es. In between dispatch and delivery I started reading the manual where I read about the outputs not being cross coupled.... The manual instructs me to only use TRS to unbalanced with floating ring and never TS cables.

My question is will I damage the interface using trs to trs without floating the ring ? and will I damage the interface using TS to rca cable?
Take a look at TS and TRS 1/4" jacks and many of your worries will be resolved. If connecting an 828es output to an unbalanced 1/4" TS input, simply use a TRS to TRS cable. When plugged into a TS (unbalanced) jack, the Ring of a TRS plug floats, accomplishing everything you need to have happen with these types of connections.

Unfortunately, when it comes to RCA, you will either need to purchase or fabricate a custom TRS (no connection to Ring) to RCA cable. Sleeves of the RCA and TRS plugs are connected, as are Tips. Similarly, if using the 828es outputs to drive a headphone amp that accepts L and R channels on a TRS Tip and Ring (with common on Sleeve), a special cable must be created with TRS plugs on the end interfacing with the MOTU outputs.

For those situations that require non-standard cable, the best solution is to buy a few connectors and some wire and get out the soldering iron. Or to have your DJ buddy get a decent mixer.

Build or fix one or two cables and your soldering iron will pay for itself. Fix something more complicated, and it will pay for itself many times over.
Old 4th October 2020
  #261
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🎧 5 years
Even easier: find pre-made TRS-to-RCA cables on which at least the TRS end is not “moulded”, i.e. you can unscrew the metal shell on the 1/4” end. Pull back the shell and use fine cutters to snip the wire that connects to the ring terminal. Snip it in two places so that you can remove a small piece. Presto, floating ring! Then mark the cable somehow so that you don’t mix it up with normal cables later.

(But I totally agree with @ HCMarkus - once you get into this type of gear, you really should try to develop some basic soldering ability. You have graduated from home stereo to pro audio, and the exact cable you need isn’t always going to be at the local Best Buy)
Old 12th October 2020
  #262
quick question regarding the Alt Monitor feature: Can you have the main outs assigned to the main outs ( as normal behavior ), then assign the Alt Mon to be spdif? And if so, does the volume knob then control the volume output from the spdif outs?

I saw @ Lady Gaia has an issue when assigning the main outs to spdif out, so I'm assuming that issue will persist if Alt Outs?
Old 12th October 2020 | Show parent
  #263
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adamj31's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
I was quite startled to discover that when the main output for the 828es is assigned to its S/PDIF output you no longer have volume control. Correction: everyone for a few blocks in every direction was likely as surprised as I was. My monitors are rather uncomfortably loud with unattenuated output, but thankfully appear to be unharmed! Has anyone with a similar target configuration found an acceptable workaround?
Strange. Doesn't Apollo allow you to mirror the main out to SPDIF, giving you volume control? Why wouldn't the Motu be able to do something similiar?
Old 24th October 2020 | Show parent
  #264
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rookas View Post
Yes, this doesnt make sense to me but is the only way I can explain this. Its clearly a driver issue as windows shows an error (corrupted error/device malfunctioned). I have spent so many hours on that its crazy.. some people in this threas jad to reinstall windows to see the interface and that suggests to me that they needed to clear older drivers.

I might be wrong of course, just wanted to warn people to be aware to try out a port which is ‘fresh’.

In general Im a big fan of MOTU but their support has been silent and have not replied yet..
just curious, did you try setting the device manager to show disconnected devices and uninstalling the old motu there?
Old 25th October 2020 | Show parent
  #265
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hedgehognrown View Post
just curious, did you try setting the device manager to show disconnected devices and uninstalling the old motu there?
Yes, that was one of the first things I have tried, didn't help unfortunately. I even tried doing that booted from safe mode too.
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