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MOTU 828es--Any impressions?
Old 18th February 2021 | Show parent
  #301
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjuxtable ➡️
Yeah, that's fair! Especially in my compromised mixing room, a bet a digital crossover would be of some use. I appreciate it.
To be completely fair, it's possible to do digital room correction, and to some extent even driver phase correction, without a digital crossover. You can even make a cardioid box with passive impendence- the same way a dynamic cardioid mic works, but on a larger scale (same way MEG and 8c work). I've actually built some- it works but it's super tinkery.

The good news is there is basically an avenue for everyone to navigate this to generally get what they want, and maintain their preferences.

These guys have digital IO, automated room and phase correction-

https://www.minidsp.com/dirac-series/ddrc-22d

You would just want to rig a way to bypass it as phase correction is an FIR process and has latency. The Kii and D&D have presets. low latency when needed, higher when needed.

Cheap coaxial A/B switches on amazon work for spdif switching.
Old 18th February 2021 | Show parent
  #302
Gear Nut
 
HCMarkus's Avatar
The ideal way for digitally-controlled Studio Monitor volume to be handled would be volume control POST DSP, with a remote-controlled DCA in each monitor. That way, full bit-depth audio would be passed from interface to speakers and used in computing crossovers/EQ etc, and the DSP outputs would be converted to analog for each driver, then attenuated.
Old 19th February 2021 | Show parent
  #303
Here for the gear
 
Sorry if I bring back the post on a less technical field. It would be awesome to know if someone over here has actually upgraded from 828mk3 to an 828es and feels that the difference between the two is like night and day sonically (sound depth, detail, low/medium volume mixing).

Let aside all the tech specs which of course are better in the 828es.

Thank you so much in advance.
Old 21st February 2021
  #304
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Few things to ask 828es users.

Are there any difference between mixing and touch screen ? It’s confusing for some reason(unexperienced user I am).
All I want to do is record 6-12ch simultaneously and make 2-4 headphone mixes. And I’m lost even before I started with matrix..
are there any good instructions for this routing matrix and mixing, touch screen web browser thing?
Old 21st February 2021 | Show parent
  #305
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCMarkus ➡️
The ideal way for digitally-controlled Studio Monitor volume to be handled would be volume control POST DSP, with a remote-controlled DCA in each monitor. That way, full bit-depth audio would be passed from interface to speakers and used in computing crossovers/EQ etc, and the DSP outputs would be converted to analog for each driver, then attenuated.
Switched resistor network with super high tolerance and matched impedance is better than DCA's without a doubt, and if it were to be 'ideal'- the weakest link in the monitoring chain by far is the power amp, not the DAC- so post amp switched resistor network would be ideal.

It's a rabbit hole not worth getting into in a thread about an interface- but -48.48dBFS is still full 16bit. If we define needed peaks for reference monitoring at 115dB and consider program crest factor of 10-25dB to apparent loudness, then we can still be getting 16bits while monitoring with apparent loudness levels from 31.5dB to 48.5dB. These are simply not useful reference monitoring levels, turn the speakers up even 12dB and you're getting 18bit at the dacs and higher SnR than any amp save maybe the benchmark AHD2.

Until power amps can achieve a SnR that comes close to dacs, and unless we have control rooms quieter than NR10, and still ignoring that equal loudness problems make super low levels not very useful reference levels for mixing/mastering, attenuating pre-dac is not the weakest link in the chain.

There is a point where a 5000hp engine makes no sense if state of the art tires can only handle 1500hp. It's not an engineering mistake, or a flaw or poor design that Kii, D&D, HEDD, Genelec and so on are implementing digital crossovers. Horses for courses, but there is nothing *wrong* with this approach, and things to be gained here as well.

Last edited by RyanC; 22nd February 2021 at 05:25 AM.. Reason: clarity
Old 21st February 2021 | Show parent
  #306
Lives for gear
 
Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC ➡️
I was looking at an 828es and wanting to use it to feed spdif to my monitors (a or b, deposn't really matter) as well. Did anyone ever figure out if there's a work around for this?
I have good news, and an apology to offer for creating a misperception around this issue. The short version: everything works as expected once you've configured the unit correctly.

The slightly longer version:

MotU got back to me rapidly to confirm that it's supposed to work, and that they had done loopback tests for me confirming that the digital outputs can be adjusted with the main monitoring controls. I had been sufficiently scarred by full scale output that I was disinclined to do proper testing and learn what I needed to, but with carefully controlled conditions here's what I've learned...

In full:

The Device Tab doesn't control routing at all, it determines what additional processing is performed on outputs designated as Monitor A and Monitor B. Exactly what signals go to which outputs is still determined on the Routing Tab, but by designating an output as Monitor A or Monitor B you're saying "I want additional control over these from the front panel." This is what opts you into attenuating outputs using the rotary encoder labelled "Monitor" on the front panel. It also causes the Mono collapse button to operate for the affected outputs, as well as the family of mute controls in the form of the Mute button and the individual A/B enable toggles.

I must have made a mistake in assignment here, failing to designate the S/PDIF output as one of my monitor pairs before setting up routing from the Main mix to the output. So, definitely my fault in hindsight but also a relatively easy mistake to make. What I've written above wasn't intuitively obvious to me. I had started with this tab expecting that it would establish routing, and when it didn't I must have left it in the wrong state when I turned to the routing tab to get audio flowing.

Part of it comes down to not having a great mental model for how it all works. I've worked with the routing system enough to know what I'm doing there, but I so rarely needed to change anything with how monitoring was set up that I didn't have a solid grasp of the precise role of those settings. I do wonder if there's something that wouldn't make this clearer. It doesn't help that there's something called a Monitor Mix coming out of the mixer section that's unrelated to the Monitor controls, which will often be controlling outputs coming from the Main Mix. To be fair, good terminology is hard, especially in a system this flexible.

Hopefully that sheds some light on the subject and makes things clearer. If only I could remember where I found information that seemed to confirm my initial incorrect assumptions. Ah well, c'est la vie. Live, learn, and make music!
Old 22nd February 2021 | Show parent
  #307
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia ➡️
I have good news, and an apology to offer for creating a misperception around this issue. The short version: everything works as expected once you've configured the unit correctly.

The slightly longer version:

MotU got back to me rapidly to confirm that it's supposed to work, and that they had done loopback tests for me confirming that the digital outputs can be adjusted with the main monitoring controls. I had been sufficiently scarred by full scale output that I was disinclined to do proper testing and learn what I needed to, but with carefully controlled conditions here's what I've learned...

In full:

The Device Tab doesn't control routing at all, it determines what additional processing is performed on outputs designated as Monitor A and Monitor B. Exactly what signals go to which outputs is still determined on the Routing Tab, but by designating an output as Monitor A or Monitor B you're saying "I want additional control over these from the front panel." This is what opts you into attenuating outputs using the rotary encoder labelled "Monitor" on the front panel. It also causes the Mono collapse button to operate for the affected outputs, as well as the family of mute controls in the form of the Mute button and the individual A/B enable toggles.

I must have made a mistake in assignment here, failing to designate the S/PDIF output as one of my monitor pairs before setting up routing from the Main mix to the output. So, definitely my fault in hindsight but also a relatively easy mistake to make. What I've written above wasn't intuitively obvious to me. I had started with this tab expecting that it would establish routing, and when it didn't I must have left it in the wrong state when I turned to the routing tab to get audio flowing.

Part of it comes down to not having a great mental model for how it all works. I've worked with the routing system enough to know what I'm doing there, but I so rarely needed to change anything with how monitoring was set up that I didn't have a solid grasp of the precise role of those settings. I do wonder if there's something that wouldn't make this clearer. It doesn't help that there's something called a Monitor Mix coming out of the mixer section that's unrelated to the Monitor controls, which will often be controlling outputs coming from the Main Mix. To be fair, good terminology is hard, especially in a system this flexible.

Hopefully that sheds some light on the subject and makes things clearer. If only I could remember where I found information that seemed to confirm my initial incorrect assumptions. Ah well, c'est la vie. Live, learn, and make music!

Thanks for the update on that...Can overall presets including monitor mix choices be saved and recalled easily? I'm in a multi-user space so things not being too complicated is important.
Old 22nd February 2021 | Show parent
  #308
Lives for gear
 
Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC ➡️
Thanks for the update on that...Can overall presets including monitor mix choices be saved and recalled easily? I'm in a multi-user space so things not being too complicated is important.
I haven't made much use of the preset system, but it's quite extensive. You can easily save and recall named presets with the entire state of the device, which sounds like what you're looking for. You can also save just the state of a specific area to be recalled later: there are individual preset types for the routing grid, mixer state, channel strips, and individual effects (EQ, compressor, leveler, high-pass filter, etc.)
Old 23rd February 2021
  #309
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Can you connect it only with ethernet to a computer and do all the recording off of that? And skip Thunderbolt and USB3 altogether?
Old 23rd February 2021 | Show parent
  #310
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dilznik ➡️
Can you connect it only with ethernet to a computer and do all the recording off of that? And skip Thunderbolt and USB3 altogether?
You can do so with a computer and Ethernet interface that support AVB, but I wouldn't recommend it for typical studio use. While modern Macs all support AVB, not every Ethernet interface in common use will do so, configuration is trickier since the MotU driver can't get involved, and the operating system is optimized for network throughput rather than latency.

So yes, it's supported. There may even be specific situations where it makes sense, perhaps in some live recording setups where latency isn't an issue but you're on a budget and want to put your one 828es close to the stage setup while the recording computer remains at a significant distance? Did you have something in particular in mind like this?
Old 23rd February 2021 | Show parent
  #311
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia ➡️
Did you have something in particular in mind like this?
Thanks for the info. No I didn't but I thought that if I get one I'll stick it on my desk right next to my Mac and I didn't want to cough up for a short TB cable when I'm swimming in ethernet cables.
Old 23rd February 2021 | Show parent
  #312
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dilznik ➡️
Thanks for the info. No I didn't but I thought that if I get one I'll stick it on my desk right next to my Mac and I didn't want to cough up for a short TB cable when I'm swimming in ethernet cables.
IMHO it's not worth the tradeoffs for most use cases. In particular, it will significantly complicate your life when getting started as AVB configuration is an intimidating place to begin. It's not the path of least resistance, that's for sure! If you're not convinced the low-latency benefits of Thunderbolt are worth it, just starting with an inexpensive USB cable should do the trick.
Old 23rd February 2021 | Show parent
  #313
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Okay cool thanks. I won't cheap out on the TB cable then.
Old 26th February 2021 | Show parent
  #314
Gear Nut
 
HCMarkus's Avatar
I've been running my 828ES via USB for some time now (I bought mine shortly after the unit was introduced by MOTU) with great success. Just an FYI.
Old 26th February 2021 | Show parent
  #315
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dilznik ➡️
Can you connect it only with ethernet to a computer and do all the recording off of that? And skip Thunderbolt and USB3 altogether?
Also be aware, that when connected via ethernet-cable
on Mac only 48, 96 and 192 kHz are supported!
Old 28th February 2021
  #316
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
I'm receiving my motu 828es in a few days.
My motherboard has a thunderbolt 3 connector.
The motu is thunderbolt 2 right ?

I would have to buy a thunderbolt 3 to thunderbolt 2 adapter and a thunderbolt 2 cable.. which end up costing me like 150$
But is this right ?
Old 28th February 2021 | Show parent
  #317
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drowl ➡️
I'm receiving my motu 828es in a few days.
My motherboard has a thunderbolt 3 connector.
The motu is thunderbolt 2 right ?

I would have to buy a thunderbolt 3 to thunderbolt 2 adapter and a thunderbolt 2 cable.. which end up costing me like 150$
But is this right ?
This is correct, you could try USB also. Gives you lower channel count to
/from computer., but you could try it first, if it‘s enough for you, before spending extra cash for thunderbolt.
Old 28th February 2021 | Show parent
  #318
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
I really don't see much benefit using Thunderbolt over USB given that MOTU drivers are pretty well written with super low latency and stability. Probably beneficial in large scale deployment with multiple interfaces connected with very high channel count. I still have hardware synths like the MOTIF keyboard. When I'm using soft synths in my DAW when making beats, the latency is so low that it feels like I'm using a hardware synth even at 128 samples 48k. When tracking guitars, rap, pop and r&b vocals, no client has complained about the latency.
Old 28th February 2021 | Show parent
  #319
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Cpl. Punishment's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drowl ➡️
I'm receiving my motu 828es in a few days.
My motherboard has a thunderbolt 3 connector.
The motu is thunderbolt 2 right ?

I would have to buy a thunderbolt 3 to thunderbolt 2 adapter and a thunderbolt 2 cable.. which end up costing me like 150$
But is this right ?
Shouldn't be that much. The StarTech adapter is expensive but not prohibitively so ($95 at Amazon):

StarTech Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter

Dell has it for $88:

Dell: StarTech.com Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter

Then there's Apple's offering:

Apple Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter

And a TB2 cable actually is pretty overpriced, but yeah, you'll need one if the interface doesn't come with one:

Amazon: Certified Cable Matters Thunderbolt 2 Cable - Black - 3.3 Feet

Buying Apple's TB3->TB2 adapter and a CM 3.3' cable sets you back ~$83+tax...

Oddly (or maybe not), the Apple adapter price has gone down and the other prices have dramatically gone up -- when I bought an OWC 6' TB2 cable it was $40 and the StarTech adapter was $68 back in November of 2018.
Old 1st March 2021 | Show parent
  #320
Gear Nut
 
HCMarkus's Avatar
I use the built in mixer when tracking; essentially zero latency, regardless of DAW buffer size. And the mixer allows remote control of monitor mixes by the performers using their phones or tablets.
Old 2nd March 2021 | Show parent
  #321
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Monotremata's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpl. Punishment ➡️
Shouldn't be that much. The StarTech adapter is expensive but not prohibitively so ($95 at Amazon):

StarTech Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter

Dell has it for $88:

Dell: StarTech.com Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter

Then there's Apple's offering:

Apple Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter

And a TB2 cable actually is pretty overpriced, but yeah, you'll need one if the interface doesn't come with one:

Amazon: Certified Cable Matters Thunderbolt 2 Cable - Black - 3.3 Feet

Buying Apple's TB3->TB2 adapter and a CM 3.3' cable sets you back ~$83+tax...

Oddly (or maybe not), the Apple adapter price has gone down and the other prices have dramatically gone up -- when I bought an OWC 6' TB2 cable it was $40 and the StarTech adapter was $68 back in November of 2018.
Wow, good luck to Star Tech suckering people into buying a $80 adapter when Apple's own sells for half the price and any time you call needing help you better have an actual Apple branded one or they'll blame it on the adapter anyways.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #322
Lives for gear
 
Cpl. Punishment's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monotremata ➡️
Wow, good luck to Star Tech suckering people into buying a $80 adapter when Apple's own sells for half the price and any time you call needing help you better have an actual Apple branded one or they'll blame it on the adapter anyways.
;^)

At the time I purchased it, the StarTech was significantly lower than the Apple adapter, and there were numerous issues with the Apple adapter by reviewers with a "verified purchase" who said the StarTech was not plagued with these incompatibilities and recommended it. Although to be fair, these "issues" were around the new Apple TB3 displays, so there's that.

In my case, I'm using the StarTech adapter to adapt my TB3-equipped HP ZBook G4 mobile workstation to my TB2 Presonus Quantum 26x32 interface. All that is a long way of saying that if I ever had to call Apple and ask for support, they not only wouldn't help me, they'd probably laugh as they hung up...
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #323
Lives for gear
 
Monotremata's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpl. Punishment ➡️
;^)

At the time I purchased it, the StarTech was significantly lower than the Apple adapter, and there were numerous issues with the Apple adapter by reviewers with a "verified purchase" who said the StarTech was not plagued with these incompatibilities and recommended it. Although to be fair, these "issues" were around the new Apple TB3 displays, so there's that.
Yeah I wish I would've caught it haha. Id love to hook my MOTU 828X up via Thunderbolt but no way am I paying almost $100 for a cable and an adapter just to plug it in. $15 USB is great!
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #324
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Great thread! After the 'over-analyzation' of almost every converter up to 2500.00 price point for the last several months... I keep coming back to the 828es. It seems too good to be true at it's price-point. (Don't get me wrong, I would love to justify a Lynx Aurora N/RME/Prism Lyra/Pure2 etc..) The 828es seems as though it will fulfill all needs for my home studio. Your sharing of 'hands-on' experiences have satisfied my reliability concerns and given me the courage to go for it! Now, to locate the best deal. Many thanks to all of you!
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #325
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I'm grabbing an interface for one of my win10 laptops. Can run usb or thunderbolt, won't really matter. May or may not ever venture into avb.

My mental note has been to grab a babyface fs.....but geez......I'm not seeing a reason to not do an 828es instead. All that i/o & clocking i/o without an additional spaghetti cable.....

The babyface is bus-powered....maybe a little more portable.....but .....with both in about the same price range.....hmmmm.....
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #326
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Before I gotten my 828ES, I was considering an RME UFX before I ditched my existing Focusrite Clarett 8pre but I'm glad I didn't blow 2k on an RME. MOTU is a fraction of an RME interface as the two companies make pretty much the same professional products and the MOTU drivers are just as good. If you were going to drop over 2 to 3k on an RME, you are better getting a Lynx Aurora n for that price which is a Mastering grade converter over an RME. I believe MOTU, Lynx, RME and Halo Metric are the only few companies that offer long term driver support. Most manufacturers only support driver updates up to maybe 5 or 7 years before they are rendered obsolete. Focusrite abandoned driver support for the Clarett Thunderbolt range just one year after it was released and then turned around and discontinued the entire Thunderbolt range in 2019. They pulled a bait and switch of their failure and released the same product with USB. Never again mess with Focusrite interfaces.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #327
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sat159p1's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Hi guys!

I just got 828ES and have only one question. I'm getting all sort of loud clicks and pops when I turn on other gear, house lights, etc. I didnt have it with other interfaces before and didn't change anything in the setup beside this converter/interface. Tried other phase wall socket but its the same. Am I the only one who have such problems with this device?
Old 1 week ago
  #328
Sry
Gear Maniac
 
I have not noticed anything like that. Only pops/clicks I get is when gear that is connected in some way is turned on.
Old 1 week ago
  #329
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Same here. Never heard pops and clicks. Oh one thing. When headphome is connected, if you turn it off it does produce pops but other than that never happened to me.
Old 6 days ago
  #330
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Hello, this is Q from South korea.

few questions for you guys!

I still do not understand routing matrix.

All I want to know are few things(for now

1. what are TB Computer, or From Computer means?

if I only work in DAW and don't use any AVB connections, how many TB computer or From Computer do I need?

2. Let's say I'm recording 10 ch simultaneously, all using mic inputs and external preamp (that are connected to Line 1-8 inputs)

and I need 4 headphone mixes so I connect Line Output 1-2 to first headphone amp, 3-4 to 2nd headphone amp, and built in 2 headphones amps.

and how do I create individual headphone mixes for this outputs? there is upcoming session (It's rare for me, usually I work by myself or go to the professional studio but there are few times that I need this individual mixes.) and I don't think I have enough time to set it up so It's better for me to prepare in advance.

Let me know if you can help!

Best
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