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macOS High Sierra (10.13) - share your experiences here! Audio Interfaces
Old 26th September 2017
  #31
Gear Head
 

Has anyone installed on a 2012 Mac Mini? I'm curious about if certain features won't be available on older hardware (Metal 2?).
Old 26th September 2017
  #32
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Beatworld's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by reno View Post
Yes, the default filesystem in High Sierra is APFS and the installer converts your internal SSD to it, and that's it : nothing else changes, High Sierra can still format, read and write HFS+ ("Mac OS Extended") and FAT32 ("MS-DOS (FAT)") just as before.
I've got an internal 1TB SSD drive and currently run 10.12.6.
If the High Sierra installer converts my internal SSD to APFS does that mean the initial install will take a bit longer that usual ? Sounds like a disc reformat which could then result in taking a while to re-save all the data on the SSD ?

Or am I overthinking it ?
Old 26th September 2017
  #33
Lives for gear
Please don’t update without getting the all clear from your various software vendors. Propellerheads have confirmed that only the very latest version of Reason (9.5.22) is compatible with High Sierra. If you are running any older versions they will no longer work anymore because of the new file system.

Hornet plugins have been confirmed not to work under AU as well. “Apple Logic Pro X or Apple Garage Band please do not update just yet as our plugins won't work there. Apple made some signigicant changes to the way Audio Units are handled in High Sierra and for this reason our plugins won't work in those two hosts.”
Old 26th September 2017
  #34
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by reno View Post

I heard Steinberg has announced they won't start testing until the end of October
I don’t blame them it costs them money to always play catch up with Apple. The thing is unlike other operating systems Mac OS is on an annual release cycle and each update tends to break things which worked before.
Old 26th September 2017
  #35
Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
I don’t blame them it costs them money to always play catch up with Apple. The thing is unlike other operating systems Mac OS is on an annual release cycle and each update tends to break things which worked before.
Seems other software developers can sort it pretty quickly though?
Old 26th September 2017
  #36
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDStudios View Post
Seems other software developers can sort it pretty quickly though?
Usually the smaller ones. It’s more work if you have a larger code base to maintain. Many vendors like NI, Plugin Alliance and Ableton are advising customers hang fire whilst they do their testing.
Old 26th September 2017
  #37
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatworld View Post
I've got an internal 1TB SSD drive and currently run 10.12.6.
If the High Sierra installer converts my internal SSD to APFS does that mean the initial install will take a bit longer that usual ? Sounds like a disc reformat which could then result in taking a while to re-save all the data on the SSD ?

Or am I overthinking it ?
You're right, it will take a bit longer than usual, but impressively not that much. I also have a 1TB SSD internal drive and the whole install took a few dozen minutes, not hours.
Old 26th September 2017
  #38
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by reno View Post
And of course Apple must have introduced this breaking change last night...
That, or... it was actually here since June 7th for HoRNet to fix, but they didn't do it.
Yes because we are busy supporting our customers, developing new plugins, fixing bugs in old ones and having a life

Apple has removed component manager, so I need to test every AU deeply to ensure that it'll work on the new system. The good news is that it seems that Logic works fine but I'll update to the new AU system anyway.

Just wait some time, if you rely on your machine for your work, you should never upgrade to a new OS anyway until the first patch release, this is valid for almost every piece of software... (including our plugins :D)

Saverio
Old 26th September 2017
  #39
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
I don’t blame them it costs them money to always play catch up with Apple. The thing is unlike other operating systems Mac OS is on an annual release cycle and each update tends to break things which worked before.
Let's not get into this debate again, Apple is Apple and their strategy has many good sides. Nobody here is taken by surprise. And no it's not "breaking things which worked before", it's improving how things work, which requires changes on both sides.

The main point is that Steinberg WILL need to catch up each year anyway, and they can just choose to do it 3 months early or 3 months late, with very different consequences for their customers. When the new OS is unveiled to developers in early June, and they discover that an API they use has changed, it costs them the same amount of money to start dealing the change straight away (and be ready in September), or to do it late. Only final testing should be put off until the very last minute.
Simply shrugging and saying "we'll deal with it at the end of October" without a flinch, like Steinberg does, is kinda spitting at their customers' face.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
Usually the smaller ones. It’s more work if you have a larger code base to maintain. Many vendors like NI, Plugin Alliance and Ableton are advising customers hang fire whilst they do their testing.
BS, they also have way more resources. You can't have the excuse both ways ("but I'm too small !" "but we're too large!"). It's more a matter of culture (I have worked both in very large and very small dev teams), and whether your customers will let you get away with it. Apparently, many do :(

Last edited by reno; 26th September 2017 at 01:15 PM..
Old 26th September 2017
  #40
Gear Maniac
 
GrabtharsHammer's Avatar
Peavey ReValver 4 AU is currently not working with LPX/High Sierra. Auvaltool hangs up when trying to validate ReValver.

All my other AU plugins and instruments I tested so far (Waves, FabFilter, Kazrog, Oeksound, Soundtoys, Lexicon, Perfect Drums) seem to work without any problems.
Old 26th September 2017
  #41
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoRNet View Post
Yes because we are busy supporting our customers, developing new plugins, fixing bugs in old ones and having a life

Apple has removed component manager, so I need to test every AU deeply to ensure that it'll work on the new system. The good news is that it seems that Logic works fine but I'll update to the new AU system anyway.

Just wait some time, if you rely on your machine for your work, you should never upgrade to a new OS anyway until the first patch release, this is valid for almost every piece of software... (including our plugins :D)

Saverio
It's good to have you here, but I think you're making exactly my point.

Let me guess, Apple had "removed the component manager" and introduced a "new AU system" since beta 1 on June 5th, correct ?

It's taking you the same amount of work to do it now (while you're also supporting customers, fixing bugs and having a life ) as it would have taken you to start looking at it in June.

It's not fair to say "just wait some time" to customers who are getting a new Mac and are stuck, or those who need the new OS for other reasons, when Apple has given you 3 months advance notice so you could be ready on day 1 (and many developers are)
Old 26th September 2017
  #42
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by reno View Post

It's taking you the same amount of work to do it now (while you're also supporting customers, fixing bugs and having a life ) as it would have taken you to start looking at it in June.
Nope is not the same. June is the beginning of summer, September is the beginning of Autumn

The "having a life" takes a completely new dimension during summer. We took a rest during august, after 2 years of continuous work. But don't worry, we are just a few days off, with the beginning of October we'll roll out the updated plugins (that by the way seems to work fine in Logic I just don't want to give any guarantee because I don't understand why they work...)

Saverio
Old 26th September 2017
  #43
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoRNet View Post
Nope is not the same. June is the beginning of summer, September is the beginning of Autumn

The "having a life" takes a completely new dimension during summer. We took a rest some year during august, after 2 years of continuous work. But don't worry, we are just a few days off, with the beginning of October we'll roll out the updated plugins (that by the way seems to work fine in Logic I just don't want to give any guarantee because I don't understand why they work...)

Saverio
Thanks for being honest about it
I've actually discovered your plugins because of this, and they look good!

But I still believe that if it's ~1 week of work for you to adapt to the new system (exactly what I expected), it shouldn't have ruined your whole summer, and maybe it would be a good habit to try the OS betas in June next year
Old 26th September 2017
  #44
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by reno View Post
Thanks for being honest about it
I've actually discovered your plugins because of this, and they look good!

But I still believe that if it's ~1 week of work for you to adapt to the new system (exactly what I expected), it shouldn't have ruined your whole summer, and maybe it would be a good habit to try the OS betas in June next year
Oh well it's not a week we have been working constantly behind the scene since the beginning of September.
Honestly we are small low cost company and before September we owned just our laptops, now we also own a mac mini running high sierra, but before this September we did not have any way to test our plugins.

Saverio

ps.
if you sell your plugins at 15€ average you don't have that big margin that allows you to own spare hardware (consider we must own the licenses to the most popular DAWs since the only DAW maker that gives it away for free to the developers is Avid...)
Old 26th September 2017
  #45
Lives for gear
 
MusiKLover's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Asher View Post
I just installed it yesterday. Maybe placebo effect but it does feel snappier with Logic Pro X.
Is your experience with High Sierra still solid? I'm speaking of mainly of UAD/other premium plugins. It would appear performance is better, so I'd like to press forward sooner rather than later. I'm curious how single/multicore is faring on my machine.
Old 26th September 2017
  #46
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrabtharsHammer View Post
Peavey ReValver 4 AU is currently not working with LPX/High Sierra. Auvaltool hangs up when trying to validate ReValver.

All my other AU plugins and instruments I tested so far (Waves, FabFilter, Kazrog, Oeksound, Soundtoys, Lexicon, Perfect Drums) seem to work without any problems.

You could try running the free force au auval tool which seems to work fine. All of my Sierra AU's are still in tact but I backed up my au cache and reused it after the HS install followed by my usual cycling of the auval tool off then on twice. Works like a charm.
Old 26th September 2017
  #47
Lives for gear
Reno these things are not as trivial as you believe. Let’s says you have all your developers currently in crunch mode on other projects that just missed their shipping date. Product updates will have to wait until resources become available. No company has unlimited resources.

For pro users the advice has always been to delay updating your OS until software is fully tested and stable. This isn’t anything new and is standard procedure even for large corporate organisations.

Do you think Google updates all their servers the very minute when a new OS version is released?
Old 26th September 2017
  #48
Gear Maniac
edit: scratch that. they all appeared after a reboot.
Old 26th September 2017
  #49
Lives for gear
 

In an effort to help some here I'll post a link I found online to the utility. If you run in first set disabled, the enabled twice, then open Logic X and look at the list and if any are still not done, re-scan them and it should work. If posting the link is not allowed, mods please remove and a little googling will find the same thing. It's called osx validate all au. I've been using it trouble free for years incl on HS.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/negapl
Old 26th September 2017
  #50
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stratology's Avatar
 

Here's the source of the Keychain vulnerability news.

It's important to view Dan Goodin's articles about macOS in context. He always writes about new vulnerabilities found by security researchers, pretty much never about any actual security risks that affect users IRL. The Keychain vulnerability affects exactly zero users at the moment.

If you consider that context, Goodin's articles are actually quite good, to keep up with some things that are happening in security research. So the articles are of academic interest, not really relevant in regard to any real world danger to Mac users.
Old 26th September 2017
  #51
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
Reno these things are not as trivial as you believe. Let’s says you have all your developers currently in crunch mode on other projects that just missed their shipping date. Product updates will have to wait until resources become available. No company has unlimited resources.

For pro users the advice has always been to delay updating your OS until software is fully tested and stable. This isn’t anything new and is standard procedure even for large corporate organisations.

Do you think Google updates all their servers the very minute when a new OS version is released?
Maybe I should mention then that I've actually been a site reliability engineer at one of the big corps (not Google, the other one )

I'm not saying it's trivial, I'm saying that we're talking about one afternoon of work in the best case to a few weeks of work, depending on your size. Apple gives developers a 3 months headstart.

It's also VERY predictable for a manager to fit in their developers' schedule : like clockwork every year, you know you'll get the new OS to test in June and it will be released end of September.

People like Steinberg saying they'll START testing at the end of October are just taking the piss.
Old 26th September 2017
  #52
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MusiKLover's Avatar
Re: Gearslutz Reviews Team

Quote:
Originally Posted by reno View Post

People like Steinberg saying they'll START testing at the end of October are just taking the piss.
It would appear Steinberg still hasn't caught up on Sierra, so it is not surprising that High Sierra is distant on the radar. Many believe they're primarily a WIN player. Thirteen pages in and the thread was locked earlier this month:

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/vie...f=250&t=108500

I wonder whether VSTs will be more problematic than AUs on the new OS. Fortunately, they do not affect me.
Old 26th September 2017
  #53
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MusiKLover's Avatar
Re: Gearslutz Reviews Team

Quote:
Originally Posted by diogo_c View Post
Mostly sync-related issues as it seems, and they're restricted to LPX as my other DAWs are all fine.

I'll grab a screenshot of this error when I'm at the studio and post here, maybe you guys can help me out.
I am not using HW Synths, though perhaps Joe Albano's recent article can shed some light into the MIDI sync/control aspects:

https://ask.audio/articles/incorpora...to-logic-pro-x
Old 26th September 2017
  #54
Administrator
 
diogo_c's Avatar
Old 26th September 2017
  #55
Gear Maniac
Found a very strange bug in Logic Pro X... F2 (played with the F key) is not working on any instrument from the musical typing keyboard...

edit: fixed

Last edited by louis.b; 26th September 2017 at 11:32 PM..
Old 26th September 2017
  #56
Administrator
 
diogo_c's Avatar
OK, upgrade done. Saved a bit of SSD storage, it's not much but I'm taking it anyway! Overall the experience has been good, snappy system, responding well to everything.

Here's what I've tested so far:

LPX 10.3.2
Studio One 3.5.1
Fuzzmeasure 4
iZotope RX6
Screenflow 7
Menu Bus v2

Plug-ins from UVI, Native Instruments, Eventide, Empirical Labs, Audiothing, Softube, Soundtoys, Valhalla, iZotope, Newfangled, Sly-Fi and Kush (minus UBK-1) are all working. Only had one failed validation (UBK-1) so far.

Interfaces: Babyface Pro, UR22, digital onboard audio are all OK.

Still need to test: Pro Tools, EuCon, Cubase, Beatstep Pro, Melodyne, MIDI interface, synths on USB and more plug-ins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by louis.b View Post
Found a very strange bug in Logic Pro X... F2 (played with the F key) is not working on any instrument from the musical typing keyboard...
Not happening here. Tested with Falcon, Battery, Kontakt and some of Logic's onboard synths.
Attached Thumbnails
macOS High Sierra (10.13) - share your experiences here!-screen-shot-2017-09-25-2.30.50-pm.jpg   macOS High Sierra (10.13) - share your experiences here!-screen-shot-2017-09-25-3.15.39-pm.jpg   macOS High Sierra (10.13) - share your experiences here!-screen-shot-2017-09-25-3.39.56-pm.jpg  
Old 26th September 2017
  #57
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MusiKLover's Avatar
PA took a long time with Sierra last year. Has anyone had success with auval & brainworx?
Old 26th September 2017
  #58
Gear Maniac
Old 26th September 2017
  #59
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusiKLover View Post
PA took a long time with Sierra last year. Has anyone had success with auval & brainworx?
I've tried a whole bunch of them and they all seem to work fine. The only plugins I've noticed problems with is DrMS (not showing up) and UBK-1 (crashing)

edit: DrMS is working fine. My bad

Last edited by louis.b; 27th September 2017 at 10:06 AM..
Old 27th September 2017
  #60
The upgrade took forever on my 2010 Mac Pro, but so far so good. MOTU 828MKII still working, old Emagic AMT8 still working. All plugins passed validation (haven't actually tested them yet). The PODFarm bass amps crashed validation, but just rescanned it and now its good to go. Waves, Fabfilter, Voxengo, NI Komplete, passed fine. Drives didnt get converted to APFS, but mine are all old school regular hard drives.

Those of you still relying on Logic 9, be warned it no longer works. The app icon is crossed out now.
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