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New G4's - safe to dump SCSI yet?
Old 17th October 2002
  #1
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Renie's Avatar
 

New G4's - safe to dump SCSI yet?

Hi

How are people managing audio drives with Pro Tools and the latest range G4's?

Is it still best to get an ATTO card or are either the fast internal drives or firewire drives sufficient?

I love the idea of no SCSI but will do if it's less hassle in the long run...

Does using mix or HD make any difference? I'm Mix!

Any advice appreciated.

thanx
Old 17th October 2002
  #2
Mac Moderator
 
MCal27's Avatar
Well, this all comes down to what your requirements are... If you absolutely must have 128 tracks on a HD rig, at any edit density then yes SCSI is needed, and preferabaly U160 SCSI ,Card (Atto UL3D) and Drives (4 of them to be totally secure)

On a Mix, you'll safely get 64 tracks from 2 IDE drives, or even 2 Firewire also. At any edit density Tools is capable of. I've done it. Plus you don't get the PCI buss overhead that you get by adding a SCSI card (-6042 etc, etc...) So SCSI isnt mandatory on Mix. Alot of my Clients on Mix stiil go for SCSI because they have other rigs with Caddied SCSI drives in them, and need to inter-operate the Rigs. But you can get Caddied Firewire Drives now, that work great. So I fore see these replacing SCSI on some Mix systems.

So in a nutshell, and in my opinion and experience, the answer to your question is No for Mix, and Yes (at the moment) for HD. I say at the moment because I should be getting my hands on one of the new Fibre drives (73 Gig) soon, and this promises full 128 Track performance... But we'll see...

Any Help??

Al. yuktyy
Old 17th October 2002
  #3
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

i dont know aobut PT but with DP im finding DMA drives problematic in certain situations. i am going to move back to 2x 36BG 10k lvd drives [which i own but arent in use] with a atto card and then 2x80GB DMA drives for daily backup. then firewire drives/optical for the clients archives/backups
Old 17th October 2002
  #4
Mac Moderator
 
MCal27's Avatar
Alphajerk,
Are you running DP with MAS or DAE?

Al.
Old 18th October 2002
  #5
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alphajerk's Avatar
 

tengo mas
Old 20th October 2002
  #6
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Renie's Avatar
 

Thanks guys

Good news again....

Al let us know how you find the new Fibre drives (73 Gig).

yuktyy
Old 20th October 2002
  #7
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Steve Smith's Avatar
 

Alpha, what type of problems?
Old 20th October 2002
  #8
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alphajerk's Avatar
 

editing when the drive becomes fragmented... and also some sort of slowdown/freakout, as if the information cant be pulled off quick enough.
Old 20th October 2002
  #9
Mac Moderator
 
MCal27's Avatar
Well, you have to remember that your using a Native DSP system, running from ATA/IDE drives, who's performance is much more defined by CPU performance than a SCSI system.

On a TDM Rig, where the Digi cards take alot of the workload from the Computer, the IDE buss has that additional CPU Performance left to stop its performance being hindered...

As I said, its still a fact that SCSI has the performance advantage over IDE. But its now fast enough to handle a Mix system reasonably.

It comes down to a balance between performance and the headaches SCSI can give you when it goes wrong, plus the different drivers in use (even just considering the Mac platform!! FWB, Atto 2.3.2 + 2.7 + Apple.)

I hope under OSX that we'll see a much more common driver standard for all Media. It would stop me growing more grey hairs!!! grggt

Al.
Old 21st October 2002
  #10
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

well, i also had NO problems with my SCSI setup on a 9600 running native while moving to a DMA dualGHZ i am having issues... so im fairly sure its the HD's.
Old 26th November 2002
  #11
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Renie's Avatar
 

Arrow

Quote:
Originally posted by MCal

So in a nutshell, and in my opinion and experience, the answer to your question is No for Mix, and Yes (at the moment) for HD. I say at the moment because I should be getting my hands on one of the new Fibre drives (73 Gig) soon, and this promises full 128 Track performance... But we'll see...

Al. yuktyy
Al

Have you tried the new drive yet?

If so, what do you think?

Thanks
Old 26th November 2002
  #12
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I just got a dual 1 GHz. last week for the main music computer, running DP3 under MAS. I removed the SCSI 15k drives and card (LVD 160) from the old dual 450, and I also took one of the 100 gig IDEs for the new box. The dual 450 went upstairs to the writing room, where there is now an 828. On the old computer, I tried pulling up a file with a lot of audio tracks that used to be on the SCSI system. It was sluggish, but still worked. When I tried to edit some audio, it crashed. Maybe just a fluke, but I'm not taking any chances, I'm sticking to SCSI.

The thing that really pissed me off about the new Apple is that I had to buy yet another full compliment of RAM (2 gig), cause they changed it again so I can't use any of my old RAM - $600!!! grudge
Old 26th November 2002
  #13
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

i just ordered my ATTO dual channel scsi card. i needed it for video but it will get use with audio mostly.
Old 26th November 2002
  #14
no ssl yet
Guest
Randy if your old memory is PC 133 (G4 466 compatible). If you'll make me a deal on it, I will buy it. Ram is pretty cheap now since the change and new ram, so remember this when cutting my deal
Old 26th November 2002
  #15
Mac Moderator
 
MCal27's Avatar
Hi,
Sorry I've been away. Work is frantic at the mo'.

Renie: Sorry I haven't tried the new Drive yet. They're in very short supply I'm told. But my order's in the que....

I see some of you are seeing that SCSI is still quicker than IDE. Yes it is... And I did state this in my replies to Renie's question.... My point was that unless you need a large (40 +) amount of Audio tracks guaranteed, then IDE works just fine, and is alot less stressful on the pocket!!

Al.
Old 27th November 2002
  #16
Jax
Lives for gear
 

alpha, how much did you pay for the atto? I don't wanna spend no $700 on that shit.

Didn't UW cards used to be in the $250 range? Wtf!
Old 27th November 2002
  #17
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

$700?!? its $469 at macconnection.... but the granite digital scsi cables and terminators were another $230 [running both channels]

they have a single channel card that is a LOT cheaper. i just went for the dual channel for more throughput.
Old 13th December 2002
  #18
urumita
 
7rojo7's Avatar
 

FibreChannel is expensive but anyone who uses it will never use anything else. www.studionetworksystems.com :
Old 30th December 2002
  #19
Gear Head
 

Question Fibre Drives

Hey Al,

I've not yet heard of these Fibre Drives you speak of. I just purchased and HD2 System, I will most likely not be running it to its full tilt, but I am intersted in the Drives you speak of.

Are they firewire or SCSI? I have looked at the Glyph external firewire, (the newer ones that look like an MBOX) and was informed that they work sufficiently with PT HD2.

IF you could let me know where these new drives your talkin about can be found I'd be much appreciative!!

Thanks AL

-Dano
Old 3rd January 2003
  #20
Mac Moderator
 
MCal27's Avatar
Oh god, the Fibre Drives!!! I've been trying to get these things over here (uk) for trial for so long now, but the company seems to have gone very quiet.... I was told by a colleague that all the supplies were sold at the namm show, and that we were on the list to get a couple over for trial. And since....nuthin!

I'll get back on the case, and see whats up...

The Glyph companions are great. But you wont get 128 tracks from one... so its not a total solution for everyone. Afraid its still SCSI on HD for now..much as I hate it!!! (SCSI that is.... love HD) lol

Al.


Old 5th January 2003
  #21
Gear Head
 

Fibre Drive

Hey AL,

Thanks again, and if you hear ANYTHING about them please let me know. I'd be greatly appreciative.

I know I cant get the full 128 tracks from the Companion series, but honestly most of my clients so far arent using more than 60 to 80, and the companion seems to keep up.

I'm really trying to hold up and wait for these fibre drives, I'd rather dump a shit load of $ for them if they are the new standard, instead of dumping $$ into SCSI, only to watch it get slaughtered by these new drives.

So thanks again AL, and stay in touch!

-Dano
Old 7th January 2003
  #22
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3rdpath's Avatar
stay tuned for firewire2...announced today.
Old 8th January 2003
  #23
Gear Head
 

firewire2

Hey 3rd,

What company is introducing firewire 2? Have any info would be much appreciated, website etc etc.

thanks-
Dano
Old 8th January 2003
  #24
Lives for gear
 
3rdpath's Avatar
smartdisk announced a new drive before( and after...) apple announced their new laptops would have fw2 compatability. i suspect a pci fw2 card will be forthcoming shortly for those of us with pre-mwsf macs. and i'm sure the other hd makers will be jumping in asap.

man, it will be nice to kiss scsi cables, id#'s and terminators goodbye.
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