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Your current opinion of the waves API bundle?
Old 17th May 2018
  #61
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What Waves did for the Scheps Omni, I would like them to do with an API channel strip, complete with their 500 Gate and Compressor which eventually lead to the creation of the API 2500. That would be nice indeed.
Old 17th May 2018
  #62
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In my opinion the more of these "emulation" plug-ins you heap on, the mushier your mix gets.

Better to use stock DAW plug-ins and invest in a decent stereo, or two mono hardware EQ's and some good converters, that you can take a couple of trips through without turning everything to crap.

Then do your homework prior to tracking and make decisions with intent on what sound is going to be in what frequency range, Hardware EQ to tape to accentuate those decisions, stock plugin EQ for a few extenuating cuts.

Shouldn't need a whole hell of a lot of other EQ,

It's gotten to the point where I can tell a "waves" mix from 100 paces,

Sounds messy....."Oh well, let's throw the Pultec emulation on there too, there! Sounds great!.....Hey, are we losing snare definition?, Throw some more plugins on, where's the main synth?....." Rinse and repeat
Old 18th May 2018
  #63
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DeadPoet's Avatar
I got the Waves API as part of the Studio Classics Collection and the EQ's always left me wanting... tried and re-tried them over a couple of years on some material but never with satisfactory results.

Last year I ordered a pair of CAPI BT-50's and a pair of LC-40's. When I finished those and ran some audio through them I *finally* understood why people like "the API sound" so much. All of a sudden all of the commencts and tips I read on gearslutz made sense to me.
My pair of BT-50's is parked on the El.Gt-bus and the LC-40's cycle between toms and kick/snare. A second pair of BT-50 (with 1731 opamps) will be mine before the end of 2018.


Sometimes I'm too lazy to patch in my hardware so I occasionaly try the plugins once more but they leave me wanting. +6dB on the hardware makes stuff better, +6dB on the plugin makes stuff harder.


Can't comment on the 2500 plugin, never used the hardware.


Herwig
Old 24th May 2018
  #64
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadPoet View Post
I got the Waves API as part of the Studio Classics Collection and the EQ's always left me wanting... tried and re-tried them over a couple of years on some material but never with satisfactory results.

Last year I ordered a pair of CAPI BT-50's and a pair of LC-40's. When I finished those and ran some audio through them I *finally* understood why people like "the API sound" so much. All of a sudden all of the commencts and tips I read on gearslutz made sense to me.
My pair of BT-50's is parked on the El.Gt-bus and the LC-40's cycle between toms and kick/snare. A second pair of BT-50 (with 1731 opamps) will be mine before the end of 2018.


Sometimes I'm too lazy to patch in my hardware so I occasionaly try the plugins once more but they leave me wanting. +6dB on the hardware makes stuff better, +6dB on the plugin makes stuff harder.


Can't comment on the 2500 plugin, never used the hardware.


Herwig

Thanks for your comment. I find the Waves API eq' s okay, regarding their point of issue 10 years ago. When they came out, it was really wonderful to have some API ITB, but its really long ago, and the developments of creating high end digital tools is much stronger in these days. If you want to have an insanely good digital EQ with vibe and hardware quality, try the Audified Klangfilm RZ062, it is a totally other case. Never heard a more authentic EQ that sounds as hardware. Also the Audified Telefunken U73b Compressor is a very good choice, althought its not a VCA like Waves API 2500, and perhaps a bit special, vintage in the sound.CAPI is for shure a good decision for hardware users, as the original APIs are extremely expensive.

PS: For VCA purposes , I really love VSC-2 from PA.
Old 31st May 2018
  #65
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Thing with the API plugins, is their harmonic emulation is tied into the Analog control, unlike other Waves plugins. Turn of the Analog, as many people do to eliminate the the noise, and you turn off the harmonics.

If there are those that are doing this and are left wondering why the Waves API plugins don’t sound better, well that’s your reason. My advice would be to leave this on for as many of the plugins as you can. The compressor is quite modern, so the nois levels are very low and you can afford to leave the Analog on more of them.
Old 31st May 2018
  #66
I think for ITB I'll go for acoustica Pink2 and grab the hardware when I see a good deal. From my experience from hardware lately is that it's just way to good but so is some software. Waves though just doesn't do it for me with emulations.
Old 1st June 2018
  #67
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just the usual fart sound
Old 4th June 2018
  #68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Limit54 View Post
I think for ITB I'll go for acoustica Pink2 and grab the hardware when I see a good deal. From my experience from hardware lately is that it's just way to good but so is some software. Waves though just doesn't do it for me with emulations.
What is it that you are looking to achieve from a compressor?
Any specific effects?

Everone should probably have an 1176, although more modern goodies to audition as well.

The Elysia Mpressor, Vertigo VSC-2, Distressor emulations, Eventide Omnipressor, Slate VMR with The Monster (It's free!), are all worth having a listen.

You really need to do your demo dilligence, and find out what works for your tastes.
Old 4th June 2018
  #69
Waves API 2500 is surprisingly good and hangs with the newer stuff just fine.
Old 30th May 2019
  #70
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This thread should not die.

I just converted to a hardcore Waves API user.

Who gives a damn about hardware in 2019? I don't.

These plugins work magic on the sound. That's all that matters.
Old 30th May 2019
  #71
Gear Maniac
 

Don't have API hardware, but I think the Waves 2500 is really tasty. Especially on a drum submix.

The EQs I was less crazy about... they sound kind of grainy? Especially the high shelf boost. Is that how the hardware is? The midrange is usable for drums or electric guitar, but the high end I do not like.
Old 30th May 2019
  #72
I love the eqs as well but find the 2 dB steps to be a bit too drastic in most cases.
Old 30th May 2019
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by db9d9 View Post
I love the eqs as well but find the 2 dB steps to be a bit too drastic in most cases.
These steps make a pretty clear line between "it works" and "it doesn't". I love having very little choice. Keeps you focused.
Old 4th June 2019
  #74
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I will never use Waves plug ins again. Their software installers are a nightmare, the registration and keys are a disaster and the copy protection and the way they load the VSTs through the bridge is an absolute **** show. Can't get waves maximizer to work with my WAV editing software because it doesn't load the VST directly. Had to move from one computer to another and it took days to get it right after speaking with support for a hour. Their copy protection is completely out of control. The people who buy the VSTS and don't pirate them are the ones that suffer due to their ridiculous copy protection and policies.

Buy ANYTHING but Waves.
Old 4th June 2019
  #75
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Sorry to hear about your bad experience with them.
Have you tried contacting customer support? I have always found the support people, on the very few occasions I have needed them, to be really helpful.
Old 4th June 2019
  #76
Quote:
Originally Posted by smccarthy945 View Post
I will never use Waves plug ins again. Their software installers are a nightmare, the registration and keys are a disaster and the copy protection and the way they load the VSTs through the bridge is an absolute **** show. Can't get waves maximizer to work with my WAV editing software because it doesn't load the VST directly. Had to move from one computer to another and it took days to get it right after speaking with support for a hour. Their copy protection is completely out of control. The people who buy the VSTS and don't pirate them are the ones that suffer due to their ridiculous copy protection and policies.

Buy ANYTHING but Waves.
Are you sure you're using the same Waves plugins the rest of us are?? Their plugins couldn't be any easier to install and authorize unless it came direct from the Apple Store or just did away with any copy protection whatsoever heh.
Old 4th June 2019
  #77
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Will The Weirdo's Avatar
IMHO....... sitting here with my API hardware and I can tell you the Waves API don't have the edge of the hardware and are kinda passive in comparison, the more you use the less tight it becomes unlike the hardware. Pink 3 is super close to the hardware un-driven, but you can't drive software into the pleasing distortion like you can the hardware. So IMHO in 2019 Waves has some serious work to do to stay competitive.
Old 4th June 2019
  #78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
IMHO....... sitting here with my API hardware and I can tell you the Waves API don't have the edge of the hardware and are kinda passive in comparison, the more you use the less tight it becomes unlike the hardware. Pink 3 is super close to the hardware un-driven, but you can't drive software into the pleasing distortion like you can the hardware. So IMHO in 2019 Waves has some serious work to do to stay competitive.
Last week I grabbed the demo of the Overloud EQ550 to compare it and honestly I thought it blew the Waves one away, and I love the Waves one. The Overloud is a 550B but you can turn each band on and off so I just set it to the same settings as the Waves 550A on the track, without turning on the extra mid band. The Waves one sounded to me like what it was doing was a very narrow peaking band in the mids. Yes it was cutting through but it was like 'Here is ALL of the 6-700Hz right in front of your face and nothing else'. The Overloud one, still had that 'edge' but it was smoother and seemed to cover the entire track as opposed to just one area.
The Waves one I turned on and it stuck right out in that one spot. The Overloud was more subtle, and not as noticeable but it covered what sounded like the full range of the guitar track. Neither one was cranked on the output either so I wonder if the Overloud keeps its together when you crank it or if it starts to sort of create a resonant peak around the center like the Waves does.
Old 5th June 2019
  #79
Deleted 5edf3fa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will The Weirdo View Post
IMHO....... sitting here with my API hardware and I can tell you the Waves API don't have the edge of the hardware and are kinda passive in comparison, the more you use the less tight it becomes unlike the hardware. Pink 3 is super close to the hardware un-driven, but you can't drive software into the pleasing distortion like you can the hardware. So IMHO in 2019 Waves has some serious work to do to stay competitive.
Waves doesn't have to do "serious work". They're the Protools of plugin world. There's always room for improvement of course.

The vast majority of people who use this plugin never heard the real thing nor they care what it sounds like anyway.
Old 5th June 2019
  #80
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Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monotremata View Post
Last week I grabbed the demo of the Overloud EQ550 to compare it and honestly I thought it blew the Waves one away, and I love the Waves one. The Overloud is a 550B but you can turn each band on and off so I just set it to the same settings as the Waves 550A on the track, without turning on the extra mid band. The Waves one sounded to me like what it was doing was a very narrow peaking band in the mids. Yes it was cutting through but it was like 'Here is ALL of the 6-700Hz right in front of your face and nothing else'. The Overloud one, still had that 'edge' but it was smoother and seemed to cover the entire track as opposed to just one area.
The Waves one I turned on and it stuck right out in that one spot. The Overloud was more subtle, and not as noticeable but it covered what sounded like the full range of the guitar track. Neither one was cranked on the output either so I wonder if the Overloud keeps its together when you crank it or if it starts to sort of create a resonant peak around the center like the Waves does.
I got the Overloud when they offered it for free. I did a couple comparisons with the Waves and I thought the Overloud just sounded like some random clean plugin type EQ. I liked the concept of an API with variable frequency and Boost/cut, but it didn't seem to have a tone of its own.

I haven't spent a lot of time with API hardware, so the Waves may not be a perfect clone, I can't say. I can say they have a sound and an attitude, so when it works it works.

I do use the 2500 as a drum parallel on just about every mix.
Old 5th June 2019
  #81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
I got the Overloud when they offered it for free. I did a couple comparisons with the Waves and I thought the Overloud just sounded like some random clean plugin type EQ. I liked the concept of an API with variable frequency and Boost/cut, but it didn't seem to have a tone of its own.

I haven't spent a lot of time with API hardware, so the Waves may not be a perfect clone, I can't say. I can say they have a sound and an attitude, so when it works it works.

I do use the 2500 as a drum parallel on just about every mix.
I gave it another run today on a different track and yeah that sounds more like it heh. The Overloud has a hint of the 'grind' to it compared to like the squeaky clean Logic stock EQ, but its fairly flat, where when you engage the Waves whatever frequency you're boosting comes right out and stabs you in the ear but its more focused on just that center. Its almost like the rest of the range takes a backseat a scoops itself out. The Overloud sounds like its just adding distortion or saturation on those particular frequencies instead of boosting up the level at the same time.
Old 5th June 2019
  #82
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Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monotremata View Post
I gave it another run today on a different track and yeah that sounds more like it heh. The Overloud has a hint of the 'grind' to it compared to like the squeaky clean Logic stock EQ, but its fairly flat, where when you engage the Waves whatever frequency you're boosting comes right out and stabs you in the ear but its more focused on just that center. Its almost like the rest of the range takes a backseat a scoops itself out. The Overloud sounds like its just adding distortion or saturation on those particular frequencies instead of boosting up the level at the same time.
If I grab one of the API EQs that's pretty much what I'm looking for. Something needs to jump out a little.

I really should try the Overloud again, its been a while. I don't think it ever made it onto a mix I was doing.
Old 5th June 2019
  #83
The Overloud is pretty cool at high sample rates but you have to be careful because it seems to be aliasing a lot at lower rates.
Old 5th June 2019
  #84
Quote:
Originally Posted by db9d9 View Post
The Overloud is pretty cool at high sample rates but you have to be careful because it seems to be aliasing a lot at lower rates.
Ill give it another run later and try really cranking it and see. Maybe that's the thing, since theyre all modeling different consoles/channel strips, maybe the one Overloud cloned just needs to be pushed into doing the API thing. For all we know Waves used one that just instantly goes to HERESTHATAPITHING where Overloud's was a different condition, who knows. Gotta run to an appt and then I can give it a try hehe.
Old 11th June 2019
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by db9d9 View Post
I love the eqs as well but find the 2 dB steps to be a bit too drastic in most cases.
I fins it annoying too. But when it comes down to it, the API EQ are really only for tones shaping, if you need more surgical control for your mix you really need to use something else.

Although H-EQ has a filter setting that is very API like. it seems to have the HP/LP of the A, and the bell shapes of the B, but they don't have the limitations of their hardware counterpart.

Although I understand IK's API isn't stuck to the same constraints, I think you have to hold in a modifier button though. Arturia's just doesn't have those constraints at all, but there is no way to get it to work traditionally, you can't even type in a value or hold a modifier in for fine adjustments.
Old 11th June 2019
  #86
Quote:
Originally Posted by simon.billington View Post
Although I understand IK's API isn't stuck to the same constraints, I think you have to hold in a modifier button though. Arturia's just doesn't have those constraints at all, but there is no way to get it to work traditionally, you can't even type in a value or hold a modifier in for fine adjustments.
The 2db thing is how APIs really are though, theyre not surgical EQs by any means, even the ones that come in a $25000 16 channel console heh. Color and grind is what they do!

Arturia doesn't have an API eq..
Old 11th June 2019
  #87
Gear Maniac
 

they impart an agressiveness to the sound, which you may or may not like (i don't). it's not ridiculous, but it is there.

also, i find the eq knobs (not the graphic eq, the other eqs) to be a hassle to work with.
Old 11th June 2019
  #88
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearstudent View Post
they impart an agressiveness to the sound, which you may or may not like (i don't). it's not ridiculous, but it is there.

also, i find the eq knobs (not the graphic eq, the other eqs) to be a hassle to work with.
Just click on the numbers, the knobs snap right to it! Doesn't get any easier. Think the V series is the same way.
Old 12th June 2019
  #89
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Junkie XL seems to be of high opinion on API bundle... just posted a new video mixing drums

https://youtu.be/C3BJnQEJm3I
Old 12th June 2019
  #90
HSi
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HSi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by db9d9 View Post
The Overloud is pretty cool at high sample rates but you have to be careful because it seems to be aliasing a lot at lower rates.
Its weird because they say not to turn on oversampling.

____________________________________________


I would say, honestly, it's pretty good. I went back to compare it on new gear+what I know now+compared to modern stuff and well, let's just say every plug in is installed again...

The design of the 550s is just a great workflow for me as well. Not a fan of paragraphic eq anyway.

Pink Eq does sound better though, and I dont think thats an subjective thing, i think its just an obvious thing.

Not to keen on boosting highs with the 550's though.
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