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Do any DAWs have a Cue Mix App?
Old 11th January 2017
  #1
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Do any DAWs have a Cue Mix App?

A lot of digital mixers have simple app that let the performers control a cue mix from their tablet or phone.

https://www.presonus.com/products/QMix-AI

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...app.x32q&hl=en

MonitorMix | Applications | Peripherals | Products | Yamaha

Qu-You - Allen & Heath

Do any DAWs offer a similar control app? I'd love to be able to assign an aux mix to a controller app and let the performers control their own headphone mix. Making headphone mixes for 4-8 people is pain in the ass. I'd rather not invest a couple grand into a digital mixer or specialized cue system if possible.
Old 11th January 2017
  #2
Lives for gear
Reaper recently added a web control feature that allows you to control it through a connected device such as smart phone or tablet, through Wi-Fi. To this point the functionality is being used in simple ways, such as remote control of the transport, simple level changes, etc. But it's pretty cool to use my iPhone to start and stop Reaper for playback and recording, etc.

If I understand it correctly the underlying capability is there for much more sophisticated uses, it just requires the front end. Knowing the Reaper user base, I'm guessing there will be people coming up with things like external control for Cue Mix and other capabilities before long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigg View Post
A lot of digital mixers have simple app that let the performers control a cue mix from their tablet or phone.

https://www.presonus.com/products/QMix-AI

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...app.x32q&hl=en

MonitorMix | Applications | Peripherals | Products | Yamaha

Qu-You - Allen & Heath

Do any DAWs offer a similar control app? I'd love to be able to assign an aux mix to a controller app and let the performers control their own headphone mix. Making headphone mixes for 4-8 people is pain in the ass. I'd rather not invest a couple grand into a digital mixer or specialized cue system if possible.
Old 11th January 2017
  #4
Lives for gear
Yep Cubase has that and Reaper recent web UI has javascript functions, which also allows control of track send levels. So there is definitely chance for someone to write custom page for CUE mixes.

However I'm personally still not convinced, that's the right way to do it, unless one has significant budget restrictions. Hardware solution will put any DAW and driver latency out of equation, so I can track with any buffer size I like, it's not necessary to clutter DAW project with monitoring AUXes etc.
MOTU AVB interfaces has 48-in mixer with 8 AUXes (at 44.1/48k) and DSP effects, which are controllable from any HTML 5 browser at the network. RME TotalMix allows control from TouchOSC or Lemur via OSC protocol (up to four independent remote control devices, however each device has to have known IP address, so it's more for the situations, where several cheap pre-configured tablets are available).
With regards to MOTU, they also have dedicated AVB Monitor 8 interface, which can be fed with two ADAT ports from any other interface you might be using and has 6 built-in stereo HP amps.. not bad for $1000.
Finally Behringer with their P16-I (input interface with ADAT and analog) and P16-M (remote receiver unit with tactile knobs and physical outputs) isn't really so expensive, if you consider how many features it has (it's expandable, doesn't require tablet applications, it will solve cabling to many locations with simple UTP patchcords and provides HP amps).. especially if you have some commercial studio.

Michal
Old 11th January 2017
  #5
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I agree. Individual cue mixers aren't all that expensive, and really work well. But for the part-time user or someone on an extremely low budget tablet control would be very nice. And for the individual who wants to record himself and simply needs a remote control, the Reaper web control is very slick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
...

However I'm personally still not convinced, that's the right way to do it, unless one has significant budget restrictions.

...
Old 12th January 2017
  #6
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by drichard View Post
I agree. Individual cue mixers aren't all that expensive, and really work well. But for the part-time user or someone on an extremely low budget tablet control would be very nice. And for the individual who wants to record himself and simply needs a remote control, the Reaper web control is very slick.
I also agree, that for DAW remote control is good addition.. however OP has mentioned up to 4-8 simultaneous artists.

I would simply assume, if we're talking about some hobby projects (eg. no budget, plenty of time), then one can mouse those monitoring levels at some software DSP console of the interface..
The variant with WiFi remote control requires couple of things.. it starts with establishing access to internal WiFi network to everyone who brought own device and point them to the right app or webpage, which is maybe possible to do, if you always work with the same trusted people.
Otherwise I can imagine all the woes with that, when you have changing people for each gig.. drummer and guitarist has an iPhone, bass player has cheap Android phone which is slow as hell, sax player brought an iPad, but forget his AppleID password.. and vocalist can't connect to your WiFi, maybe phone restart will help Then you have to explain the control itself.. In the sum you can easily spend an hour with that.
Well.. purchase of few preconfigured tablets to avoid similar scenarios can be easily $600-800 extra or so.. plus you have to keep it charged, in good shape and so on.
Also you already need all individual HP amps, analog cabling and power supplies.. it can be like 80$ per piece for some basic amp model with reasonable output power and balanced inputs.
If you compare similar setup with mentioned dedicated monitoring system, which usually also takes power via UTP cable, it isn't so appealing as it might initially look like IMO.

So from my point of view, it's mostly suitable for one band with fixed members at their rehearsal space/garage studio or some musician who otherwise can't control the DAW from his recording place.. those people will get most benefits from this concept.

Michal
Old 12th January 2017
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
Rigg's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post

However I'm personally still not convinced, that's the right way to do it, unless one has significant budget restrictions. Hardware solution will put any DAW and driver latency out of equation, so I can track with any buffer size I like, it's not necessary to clutter DAW project with monitoring AUXes etc.
MOTU AVB interfaces has 48-in mixer with 8 AUXes (at 44.1/48k) and DSP effects, which are controllable from any HTML 5 browser at the network. RME TotalMix allows control from TouchOSC or Lemur via OSC protocol (up to four independent remote control devices, however each device has to have known IP address, so it's more for the situations, where several cheap pre-configured tablets are available).
With regards to MOTU, they also have dedicated AVB Monitor 8 interface, which can be fed with two ADAT ports from any other interface you might be using and has 6 built-in stereo HP amps.. not bad for $1000.
Finally Behringer with their P16-I (input interface with ADAT and analog) and P16-M (remote receiver unit with tactile knobs and physical outputs) isn't really so expensive, if you consider how many features it has (it's expandable, doesn't require tablet applications, it will solve cabling to many locations with simple UTP patchcords and provides HP amps).. especially if you have some commercial studio.

Michal
Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
I also agree, that for DAW remote control is good addition.. however OP has mentioned up to 4-8 simultaneous artists.

I would simply assume, if we're talking about some hobby projects (eg. no budget, plenty of time), then one can mouse those monitoring levels at some software DSP console of the interface..
The variant with WiFi remote control requires couple of things.. it starts with establishing access to internal WiFi network to everyone who brought own device and point them to the right app or webpage, which is maybe possible to do, if you always work with the same trusted people.
Otherwise I can imagine all the woes with that, when you have changing people for each gig.. drummer and guitarist has an iPhone, bass player has cheap Android phone which is slow as hell, sax player brought an iPad, but forget his AppleID password.. and vocalist can't connect to your WiFi, maybe phone restart will help Then you have to explain the control itself.. In the sum you can easily spend an hour with that.
Well.. purchase of few preconfigured tablets to avoid similar scenarios can be easily $600-800 extra or so.. plus you have to keep it charged, in good shape and so on.
Also you already need all individual HP amps, analog cabling and power supplies.. it can be like 80$ per piece for some basic amp model with reasonable output power and balanced inputs.
If you compare similar setup with mentioned dedicated monitoring system, which usually also takes power via UTP cable, it isn't so appealing as it might initially look like IMO.

So from my point of view, it's mostly suitable for one band with fixed members at their rehearsal space/garage studio or some musician who otherwise can't control the DAW from his recording place.. those people will get most benefits from this concept.

Michal

Your feedback is much appreciated Michal. I'm well aware of the alternative options you mentioned as well as the requirements, limitations, and possible pitfalls of trying something like this. I've researched the Motu and Behringer options in depth. In addition I've also looked into to standalone rack mixers with mix apps like the ones linked in my OP. Pretty much if there is way to do this I've probably looked into it. I've already tried the interface DSP cue mixer and even did an analog mixer front end. I found both options kind of clunky. Doing what I've described in the OP is probably the only possible option I haven't properly researched.

Currently I'm using a PCIX PTHD 8 G5 mac front end feeding a Product: MH-8 | TASCAM . These are low budget projects with 10-12 different players that are all close personal friends.

I like being able to setup the routing and effects directly in the Pro Tools mixer. What I don't like is tweaking 4-8 cue mixes to the players liking. I'd like to upgrade my entire software, computer, and interface setup at some point and I'm exploring all of my options. I think the workflow outlined in my OP could work for me I'm just not well versed in all the options other DAWs offer. I haven't used anything but Pro Tools in the 17 years I've been doing this.
Old 12th January 2017
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
Rigg's Avatar
 

Quote:
Cool. I'll look into this. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drichard View Post
Reaper recently added a web control feature that allows you to control it through a connected device such as smart phone or tablet, through Wi-Fi. To this point the functionality is being used in simple ways, such as remote control of the transport, simple level changes, etc. But it's pretty cool to use my iPhone to start and stop Reaper for playback and recording, etc.

If I understand it correctly the underlying capability is there for much more sophisticated uses, it just requires the front end. Knowing the Reaper user base, I'm guessing there will be people coming up with things like external control for Cue Mix and other capabilities before long.
Sweet. I'll keep an eye out for further developments.
Old 12th January 2017
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
Rigg's Avatar
 

I submitted a feature request for this over at the Studio One Q&A if anyone is interested.

Feature Request- Remote app for controling cue mixes in S1 - Questions & Answers | PreSonus
Old 12th January 2017
  #10
Lives for gear
I've been in a couple of studios that used the Behringer PM-16's. Using them allows each musician to set his own mix, and it didn't seem clunky at all. In fact, I thought it was easy and extremely useful, and IMO would be a far better solution than a web based interface on each musician's smart phone.

The only rationale I could see for the web interface would be if you are on an extremely low budget. The Behringer setup isn't all that expensive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigg View Post
Your feedback is much appreciated Michal. I'm well aware of the alternative options you mentioned as well as the requirements, limitations, and possible pitfalls of trying something like this. I've researched the Motu and Behringer options in depth. In addition I've also looked into to standalone rack mixers with mix apps like the ones linked in my OP. Pretty much if there is way to do this I've probably looked into it. I've already tried the interface DSP cue mixer and even did an analog mixer front end. I found both options kind of clunky. Doing what I've described in the OP is probably the only possible option I haven't properly researched.

Currently I'm using a PCIX PTHD 8 G5 mac front end feeding a Product: MH-8 | TASCAM . These are low budget projects with 10-12 different players that are all close personal friends.

I like being able to setup the routing and effects directly in the Pro Tools mixer. What I don't like is tweaking 4-8 cue mixes to the players liking. I'd like to upgrade my entire software, computer, and interface setup at some point and I'm exploring all of my options. I think the workflow outlined in my OP could work for me I'm just not well versed in all the options other DAWs offer. I haven't used anything but Pro Tools in the 17 years I've been doing this.
Old 12th January 2017
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
Rigg's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drichard View Post
I've been in a couple of studios that used the Behringer PM-16's. Using them allows each musician to set his own mix, and it didn't seem clunky at all. In fact, I thought it was easy and extremely useful, and IMO would be a far better solution than a web based interface on each musician's smart phone.

The only rationale I could see for the web interface would be if you are on an extremely low budget. The Behringer setup isn't all that expensive.
The P-16 m units are $300. 8 of these is $2400 plus another $200 for the P-16-i input module. Add in another $100 for the p-16-d so I can get 8 units distributed without wall warts, and another $240 for mounting brackets and you are at $2940. That might not be a huge expense for a pro studio but it is a pretty big expense for a home studio. I don't think I have a whole lot more than that invested into my entire current rig.

I am on a budget. At this point I am really just exploring my options. As i said before I've researched the P-16 solution and it is certainly a consideration. It's probably just a bit more than I'd like to spend for remote control of cue sends. What I haven't thoroughly researched is what all the DAWs out there have to offer in terms of remote cue mix control. Hence this thread.

Last edited by Rigg; 13th January 2017 at 01:55 AM..
Old 13th January 2017
  #12
Lives for gear
I understand. Someone mentioned Cubase, I have no idea how well it would work for your needs. I am reasonably sure the base capability is there in Reaper, but I haven't seen anyone write a Cue Mix front end yet.

If you're on a budget Reaper is hard to beat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigg View Post
The P-16 m units are $300. 8 of these is $2400 plus another $200 for the P-16-i input module. Add in another $100 for the p-16-d so I can get 8 units distributed without wall warts, and another $240 for mounting brackets and you are at $2940. That might not be a huge expense for a pro studio but it is a pretty big expense for a home studio. I don't think I have a whole lot more than that invested into my entire current rig.

I am on a budget. At this point I am really just exploring my options. As i said before I've researched the P-16 solution and it is certainly a consideration. It's probably just a bit more than I'd like to spend for remote control of cue sends. What I haven't thoroughly researched is what all the DAWs out there have to offer in terms of remote cue mix control. Hence this thread.
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