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Tim Cook on Mac Desktop commitment Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 27th January 2017
  #241
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Mike O's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoughlan View Post
Considering that's a 10% higher market share than any computer manufacturer has ever held in the modern era, and 4x what Apple currently has, you should probably go ahead and send your ideas to Cupertino...

It's very easy to sit back and say "there's room for improvement" or come up with fantastic computers that match the needs of you and your friends, but I promise you there are a ton of extremely intelligent people looking at this every day, and it's just not that simple.
So....at one point Apple made (arguably) as high a spec, most flexible machine as could be bought from anyone. Why is it beyond them to continue to do so?

Hint: It's not. They have the resources to support such a 'minor, stratified market' (your implication).

Never before have you seen non-iOS (OSX and before) users state such frustration with Apple. Once upon a time Apple depended on the experience of users of these devices, primarily those in education and creative endeavors to market. Those users experience 'bubbled up' to others. It CAN happen in reverse and really, there can be no real reason for 'a ton of extremely intelligent people' to give away markets they literally owned.

Why do you believe such a group of intelligent people can't walk and chew gum at the same time?

It is of course possible that they are going with a new, innovative, non-Intel technology. And if that comes soon enough, perhaps THAT would be a reason not to keep up to date with the current Intel based machine. Can you think of any other real reason?

Despite the worlds focus on the cloud, MANY processes simply can't run that way; with processes happening on the cloud (present day mainframe). Will Apple totally give that market away? And if so, why?
Old 27th January 2017
  #242
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It's not so much that the chips have remained the same for so long but rather the cost has remained the same for so long. When or whether they ever upgrade the chips in the Mac Pro I hold almost zero hope that PCIe slots will ever again be integrated in the Mac Pro. For me it's not a problem since I'm using Thunderbolt. Neither is it a problem for those that use USB. That means that the target market for both the Mac Pro and PCIe is very small and only getting smaller. It's not Apple that has the problem, its us. Particularly those using PCIe or should I say those that are "still" using PCIe?
Old 27th January 2017
  #243
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O View Post
So....at one point Apple made (arguably) as high a spec, most flexible machine as could be bought from anyone. Why is it beyond them to continue to do so?

Hint: It's not. They have the resources to support such a 'minor, stratified market' (your implication).
Let's assume you're right about the resources. (I agree with you, because they have piles of cash, but I also haven't seen their books and I don't know how expensive these things are, real world. But let's just assume for the sake of argument.)

So, if they have all this money, why in the world would Apple not do something that would make them money and strengthen the brand? That's the million dollar question.

And the most likely answer is... they've run the numbers and they're pretty sure it's a losing proposition.

Further, as a publicly traded company you do have a certain obligation to your shareholders to not light money on fire. This isn't a particularly strict requirement, legally, but depending on the folks at the top they may adhere to it in a very strict way, so that's another possibility.

Quote:
Never before have you seen non-iOS (OSX and before) users state such frustration with Apple. Once upon a time Apple depended on the experience of users of these devices, primarily those in education and creative endeavors to market. Those users experience 'bubbled up' to others. It CAN happen in reverse and really, there can be no real reason for 'a ton of extremely intelligent people' to give away markets they literally owned.
What about considering the reverse? That the pro line was a calculated money-losing gamble to establish the brand with the masses, and now that the brand recognition exists, the pro line isn't required anymore?

Quote:
Why do you believe such a group of intelligent people can't walk and chew gum at the same time?
They certainly can. But buying gum costs money. And sugar increases risk of cavities. And for those reasons some people decide not to chew gum. Just because they can doesn't mean they will.

Quote:
It is of course possible that they are going with a new, innovative, non-Intel technology. And if that comes soon enough, perhaps THAT would be a reason not to keep up to date with the current Intel based machine. Can you think of any other real reason?
Keeping up to date costs money! R&D costs money. Plants cost money. Customer support costs money. Training Apple employees about the machine costs money.

It all costs, and if they already don't see power desktops as part of their longterm growth strategy, then the only way to justify them is with a non-financial arguments, like those rooted in nostalgia or forward-looking trickle up / down branding arguments, which are pretty abstract at best. I get the sense that Tim Cook is a real bottom line dollars and cents kind of person and those things don't carry much weight with him.
Old 28th January 2017
  #244
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I think their machines are still pretty good for the creative industries. I'm an architect and share an office with another architect firm and a market/communications firm. There are 14 people. With 14 macs. Well actually 15 because I have a 27" iMac and a 12" MacBook.
Funny thing is more than half of the machines are running windows on boot camp for Revit.

The iMac is the perfect creative machine, especially the 5k with its amazing monitor. The i5 chips are fast enough for most of us. No one even needs the i7 here.

When people here complain that Apple isn't looking after the creatives that's not quite right. As musicians we are an even smaller subset of the creative classes, who needs more power than most if running plugins, synths and daws.

But most creatives are well served by the current lineup. But I agree the Mac Pro needs an update. I'd also personally love to see a 6 core MacBook Pro but I know that it's up to intel to get the coffee lake chips out before that's even an option.
Old 28th January 2017
  #245
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Mike O's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
I think their machines are still pretty good for the creative industries. I'm an architect and share an office with another architect firm and a market/communications firm. There are 14 people. With 14 macs. Well actually 15 because I have a 27" iMac and a 12" MacBook.
Funny thing is more than half of the machines are running windows on boot camp for Revit.

The iMac is the perfect creative machine, especially the 5k with its amazing monitor. The i5 chips are fast enough for most of us. No one even needs the i7 here.

When people here complain that Apple isn't looking after the creatives that's not quite right. As musicians we are an even smaller subset of the creative classes, who needs more power than most if running plugins, synths and daws.

But most creatives are well served by the current lineup. But I agree the Mac Pro needs an update. I'd also personally love to see a 6 core MacBook Pro but I know that it's up to intel to get the coffee lake chips out before that's even an option.
Somewhat OT - Apart from the Mac vs PC issue, my brother is also a licensed Architect with (I think) a dozen other Architects in several offices. Perhaps another 70 people in civil engineering and related disciplines. By chance, we discussed just the other day that i5 machines with lots of memory, etc. were not up to what THEY do with Revit and other software.

He blamed it on the i5s lack of support for hyperthreading/virtual cores. Supposedly a big problem for some of the modeling, etc. they do on large projects. I THINK he said that Autodesk does not recommend i5s for Revit (but could be mistaken).

The broader point - specifications of a computer are dictated by what individual users need. And we will likely never reach the point when any 'off the shelf' computer will do what any user needs. Computing by it's very nature will consume as much resource as you can afford to throw at it. As Apple use to supply.
Old 28th January 2017
  #246
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoughlan View Post
No one is saying Apple isn't doing the right things to make as much money as possible. They're saying that sucks. There's a difference.

For the record, I'm guessing most of the music you love would never have even been recorded if the people involved in making it decided to take your advice and embrace capital C Capitalism, so maybe think twice about that line of argument, too.
Some of the Music we Love are not being recorded. You don't think the Record Company does the same thing? They inundated us with Disco in order to make money. A lot of the Executives who did this, hated Disco, but their love for money, was greater than their hate for Disco. Don't forget Rap music, bubblegum music, Boy Bands etc.

Why is it that when a song or an Artist or a Group becomes successful, the Record Company immediately buts pressure on the A&R department, publishers, songwriters, producer, artist and bands to copy it? Heck, they even put pressure on Mixing Engineers to mix a certain way. And let's not even get into the "Loudness War".

It's greed, it's Capitalism, it's the American way.
Old 28th January 2017
  #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoughlan View Post
that's a 10% higher market share than any computer manufacturer has ever had...
No other computer manufacturer is in the position to be the sole vendor of that platform.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoughlan View Post
It's very easy to sit back and say "there's room for improvement"
Yes, it is more easy to point out room for improvement than to have a plan for improvement and making it work.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoughlan View Post
or come up with fantastic computers that match the needs of you and your friends,
I don't think it's required to offer computers with unheard of performance. Reading that into my statement where I proposed licensing standard PC motherboards is far fetched.
There's a lot of people who would like to have a desktop Mac in a tower case with competitive power for a reasonable price. Basically the power of an i7, with the option of 6, 8, and 10 core i7, and changing components within minutes at home.
That's not spectacular and absolutely possible. Yet, this would not automatically multiply the Mac's market share. But to be able to even have a chance to sell to a group of people, you would need to offer them something they would consider to buy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoughlan View Post
there are a ton of extremely intelligent people looking at this every day, and it's just not that simple.
It is impossible, if your goal is just doing marginally better than last year.

It does not matter how intelligent you are, if you focus your efforts on a too small goal.

Being able to develop a vision or sense of direction, that's something that does not come automatically with intelligence.
Then there are people who are not passionate about what they manage, who don't understand their existing clients and/or their potential clients.
Selling is about psychology, understanding why people make buying decisions. Someone can be intelligent in a field of engineering but have much less of an understanding of how and why people make decisions.
In general you can be excellent in one area and not so great in another. Being intelligent is not the magic sauce that makes anyone omniscient and enlightened.
Intelligence is also relative: Some jobs require more capabilities than others. To be a Java Script web-app developer for example requires a certain intelligence. Optimizing how a C++ compiler translates source code into efficient assembler code is more complex and would probably overcharge most people who are good web developers.
If you manage a marketing strategy for a PC manufacturer, being intelligent may not be enough unless your boss accepts minimal progress.

Since we are on a music producers' forum, let me add one last analogy regarding the idea that intelligence is the deciding factor here: Someone with an extended knowledge in music theory and a lot of practice isn't automatically a great composer.

Last edited by blue monk; 28th January 2017 at 04:02 AM..
Old 28th January 2017
  #248
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The people in our office are running Revit on i5s no problems. But we are only working on buildings up to around $4-5m, so not huge models with multiple users on the same file with different work sets. Obviously the i7 would be better.

Interestingly when I just bought a used iMac 5k i5 3.2GHz I brought it home and set it up in my studio to see how Cubase would look on the big screen (omg so much space). I did a bit of a plugin comparison against my studio machine which is a 2013 rMBP 2.3GHz i7.

The MBP scores about 10-15% higher on Geekbench so I expected it would beat the iMac. But the iMac ran 70 track with 8 reverence reverb plugins. The MBP ran 60.

That was surprising.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O View Post
Somewhat OT - Apart from the Mac vs PC issue, my brother is also a licensed Architect with (I think) a dozen other Architects in several offices. Perhaps another 70 people in civil engineering and related disciplines. By chance, we discussed just the other day that i5 machines with lots of memory, etc. were not up to what THEY do with Revit and other software.

He blamed it on the i5s lack of support for hyperthreading/virtual cores. Supposedly a big problem for some of the modeling, etc. they do on large projects. I THINK he said that Autodesk does not recommend i5s for Revit (but could be mistaken).

The broader point - specifications of a computer are dictated by what individual users need. And we will likely never reach the point when any 'off the shelf' computer will do what any user needs. Computing by it's very nature will consume as much resource as you can afford to throw at it. As Apple use to supply.
Old 28th January 2017
  #249
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyA View Post
Some of the Music we Love are not being recorded. You don't think the Record Company does the same thing? They inundated us with Disco in order to make money. A lot of the Executives who did this, hated Disco, but their love for money, was greater than their hate for Disco. Don't forget Rap music, bubblegum music, Boy Bands etc.

Why is it that when a song or an Artist or a Group becomes successful, the Record Company immediately buts pressure on the A&R department, publishers, songwriters, producer, artist and bands to copy it? Heck, they even put pressure on Mixing Engineers to mix a certain way. And let's not even get into the "Loudness War".
As far as I can tell this is an argument against your original statement "Capitalism. Embrace it." which is what I was initially responding to. Capitalism has a lot of downsides. Don't need to convince me of that!

Quote:
It's greed, it's Capitalism, it's the American way.
This we definitely agree on
Old 28th January 2017
  #250
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue monk View Post
I don't think it's required to offer computers with unheard of performance. Reading that into my statement where I proposed licensing standard PC motherboards is far fetched. There's a lot of people who would like to have a desktop Mac in a tower case with competitive power for a reasonable price. Basically the power of an i7, with the option of 6, 8, and 10 core i7, and changing components within minutes at home.
That's not spectacular and absolutely possible. Yet, this would not automatically multiply the Mac's market share. But to be able to even have a chance to sell to a group of people, you would need to offer them something they would consider to buy.
We're going to run around in circles on this if we keep going, so this will be my last post on this:

I would like the computer you spelled out above. Unfortunately, I believe that the costs of offering a product like that are too high to warrant its production.

Yes, there is a theoretical market of X people who would purchase it. But you have to understand there are a lot of costs associated with this, too. There are resources that need to be allocated (plants, customer support). There are brand implications. There are pricing implications across the board for all products. It's just not a case of calling up Gigabyte and getting some Mac on the shelves for everyone. It goes way beyond that.

Apple is in a really good position to know how much these things cost and what their sales will be like. I am extremely confident that if they thought this was a really great investment of resources, they would do it.

Quote:
It is impossible, if your goal is just doing marginally better than last year.

It does not matter how intelligent you are, if you focus your efforts on a too small goal.
There's some irony in this, because I'm pretty sure Apple's goal is to have an iDevice in every home in the world. They're thinking really, really big. Making affordable modular computers for a niche market, on the other hand, is thinking pretty small...
Old 28th January 2017
  #251
Tui
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Tui's Avatar
Apple painted themselves into a corner with that silly trashcan design. Yes, it may move heat very efficiently, but it is also the worst possible option for a modular design. All computer components - except for fans, perhaps - are somewhat rectangular. Making HDs, motherboards and 3rd-party graphic cards fit into a tube is no small feat... And entirely unnecessary. Only Apple could come up with such a ridiculous design.

Now, since they told us that the design is pure genius and "innovation", they won't abandon it so easily.
Old 28th January 2017
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoughlan View Post
I believe that the costs of offering a product like that are too high to warrant its production.
Much lower than developing something like a Mac Pro which does not bring any advantage but a lot of disadvantages when not updated for years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoughlan View Post
...There are brand implications. There are pricing implications across the board for all products. It's just not a case of calling up Gigabyte and getting some Mac on the shelves for everyone. It goes way beyond that.
Yes it does. But none of this is a road-block and Apple in my estimation is doing a poor job in the Mac department.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoughlan View Post
Apple is in a really good position to know how much these things cost and what their sales will be like.
Only if they play it small with the Mac.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoughlan View Post
I am extremely confident that if they thought this was a really great investment of resources, they would do it.
Yes, obviously. The Mac does not have priority. They don't have a vision for the platform, either. They are making cosmetic changes and selling that as innovation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoughlan View Post
There's some irony in this, because I'm pretty sure Apple's goal is to have an iDevice in every home in the world. They're thinking really, really big. Making affordable modular computers for a niche market, on the other hand, is thinking pretty small...
The computer market is not something I think of as a niche market. What's true is that Apple has (since the Apple II) been making products only targeted at a fraction of the PC market.
Now turning everything around with a single change in product policy alone would not work. There's quite a lot of Windows users who have no inclination to get a Mac.
Yet, a desktop with the power of the iMac would be something that is interesting to many people.
Old 28th January 2017
  #253
Gear Nut
noone can trust this guy again
let's face it, time of big macs and mac minis and mac book pros are behind us
they died with jobs
time to switch to... real world
and for people who still needs a mac pro, make an hackintosh as there's no other solution i'm afraid

Here comes new music era for cook

Last edited by IPascal; 28th January 2017 at 07:04 PM..
Old 28th January 2017
  #254
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thismercifulfate's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumbergh View Post
... meanwhile at the coalface real pros are making money using their trashcans with 128G RAM and whatever frequency/core combination E5 works best for them
Old 28th January 2017
  #255
Gear Maniac
 

At the end of the day Apple is banking on getting as much power as possible into their own chips and into their phones because they realize that 90% of the world does not need or want a desktop or even a laptop, but they do want a mega powerful phablet with LTE and cloud everything and connections to TVs and fridges and holographic keyboards that display on the surface in front of you when you need to type, etc.

They've probably made a high level decision not to spend resources trying to aggressively grow marketshare in a group that's arguably shrinking, when there's a huge group that's growing massively and way more profitable out there (peripherals, in-app purchases, Apple Pay, etc.)

I don't see why this is so difficult to understand. They're investing in the future. Computers for musicians are not as big a part of the future as super powerful iDevices for the world.
Old 28th January 2017
  #256
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pulsar modular's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoughlan View Post
At the end of the day Apple is banking on getting as much power as possible into their own chips and into their phones because they realize that 90% of the world does not need or want a desktop or even a laptop, but they do want a mega powerful phablet with LTE and cloud everything and connections to TVs and fridges and holographic keyboards that display on the surface in front of you when you need to type, etc.

They've probably made a high level decision not to spend resources trying to aggressively grow marketshare in a group that's arguably shrinking, when there's a huge group that's growing massively and way more profitable out there (peripherals, in-app purchases, Apple Pay, etc.)

I don't see why this is so difficult to understand. They're investing in the future. Computers for musicians are not as big a part of the future as super powerful iDevices for the world.
It's laughable how you sure you are that your speculation accurately reflects what Apple is thinking and planning.
Old 28th January 2017
  #257
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pulsar modular View Post
It's laughable how you sure you are that your speculation accurately reflects what Apple is thinking and planning.
Go ahead and carefully read my posts, you'll see plenty of "likely" and "probably" and "assume" sprinkled throughout. I'm speculating, just like everyone else is, and I'm not claiming any differently.

All I'm doing is offering a hypothesis for why things look the way they are, grounded in real data that is available to you and I. Go ahead and listen to one of the investor call transcripts. See what the focus is. See what the market is responding to. Conference Call Transcripts - Apple Inc. (AAPL) - NASDAQ.com

I'm not saying I'm right, but I find something backed up with things that are actually happening in the marketplace way more compelling than "my friends and I would buy this so there's definitely X% of a market out there, everyone running the company is clueless, etc."

Look at every Apple product released in the last 5 years. Notice the trends. Everything is getting smaller. Lighter. More compact. Look at the comments about tablets. About the iMac. Look at the fact that we haven't seen a Mac Pro release in 3 years.

I'd really like to be wrong about all of this and watch Apple release a huge modular Cheesegrater in a couple weeks. I'd be the first in line for it. I just don't think it's going to happen, given everything.

And if you have a compelling reason for why I'm wrong, I'd love to hear it! It would be a much better contribution to the discussion than just getting angry at someone for sharing an opinion on the internet.
Old 28th January 2017
  #258
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pulsar modular's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoughlan View Post
Go ahead and carefully read my posts, you'll see plenty of "likely" and "probably" and "assume" sprinkled throughout. I'm speculating, just like everyone else is, and I'm not claiming any differently.

All I'm doing is offering a hypothesis for why things look the way they are, grounded in real data that is available to you and I. Go ahead and listen to one of the investor call transcripts. See what the focus is. See what the market is responding to. Conference Call Transcripts - Apple Inc. (AAPL) - NASDAQ.com

I'm not saying I'm right, but I find something backed up with things that are actually happening in the marketplace way more compelling than "my friends and I would buy this so there's definitely X% of a market out there, everyone running the company is clueless, etc."

Look at every Apple product released in the last 5 years. Notice the trends. Everything is getting smaller. Lighter. More compact. Look at the comments about tablets. About the iMac. Look at the fact that we haven't seen a Mac Pro release in 3 years.

I'd really like to be wrong about all of this and watch Apple release a huge modular Cheesegrater in a couple weeks. I'd be the first in line for it. I just don't think it's going to happen, given everything.

And if you have a compelling reason for why I'm wrong, I'd love to hear it! It would be a much better contribution to the discussion than just getting angry at someone for sharing an opinion on the internet.
The best analyses for what's going on that I've seen are these:
https://steveblank.com/2016/10/24/wh...-job-at-apple/
http://www.vox.com/new-money/2016/11...nal-divisional
Old 28th January 2017
  #259
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pulsar modular View Post
These were good reads, thanks. There's a fair amount of contradiction between the two, that proves so much of this is in how you look at the glass, though. For example the Vox article concludes "Apple's exits are a clear sign of organizational dysfunction" while the Blank article highlights Microsoft's new CEO doing things like killing the phone business. Also says an agile CEO knows how to pivot and make substantive changes to a market before it happens.

So why can't something like leaving the external display market or nuking the Mac Pro be part of a vision/pivot that sees those displays and machines as on the way out? Why does it have to be organizational failure?

I do agree, as I've already stated several times in this thread, that short term money-only decision making is a terrible idea, but I guess I'm less convinced than most because Apple is only doing this because they're only thinking about the bottom line and the next shareholder call. I think there's a bigger strategy at play here alongside a consolidation of resources to serve it. I hope so, anyway!
Old 28th January 2017
  #260
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoughlan View Post
So? Much bigger doesn't really matter. There are, at max, 10 million potential new Mac Pro users out there. And that's being super, super generous.

Now think of the world population: 7 billion. And think of all the products they make for those 7 billion: iPhones and Watches and Tablets and iMacs. The R&D is less demanding and the margins are better. It's a mass vs. niche market. There's no contest when it comes to the bottom line.

The iPod saved Apple, not the G4...

So? They're a big company that should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. They can build new Mac Pros without hurting their mobile business. All people want are the old towers with up to date components.
Old 28th January 2017
  #261
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoff View Post
So? They're a big company that should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. They can build new Mac Pros without hurting their mobile business. All people want are the old towers with up to date components.
If it were that easy, why do you think they're not just doing it?
Old 29th January 2017
  #262
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
I think their machines are still pretty good for the creative industries. I'm an architect and share an office with another architect firm and a market/communications firm. There are 14 people. With 14 macs. Well actually 15 because I have a 27" iMac and a 12" MacBook.
Funny thing is more than half of the machines are running windows on boot camp for Revit.

The iMac is the perfect creative machine, especially the 5k with its amazing monitor. The i5 chips are fast enough for most of us. No one even needs the i7 here.

When people here complain that Apple isn't looking after the creatives that's not quite right. As musicians we are an even smaller subset of the creative classes, who needs more power than most if running plugins, synths and daws.

But most creatives are well served by the current lineup. But I agree the Mac Pro needs an update. I'd also personally love to see a 6 core MacBook Pro but I know that it's up to intel to get the coffee lake chips out before that's even an option.
I personally think the iMac is not a good computer for photo editing - the reason being that the gorgeous screen makes photos look too good. I want a computer without a screen so I can buy a screen that is for graphics professional. Just like people recording, mining and mastering music want to use studio monitors as opposed to high-end consumer speakers that sparkle.

Spoff
Old 29th January 2017
  #263
Tui
Gear Guru
 
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CEOs that are emotionally detached from their customers make bad decisions... Take Marissa Mayer for an example. I doubt she even uses Yahoo mail... I bet she thinks email is sooo old-fashioned and unhip.

Tim Cook comes across as aloof and disengaged with *people*. The way he sat at the table during the meeting with the new president spoke volumes. When Cook presents a new product, he pretends to be excited and uses catchwords like "amazing" every 5 seconds... He tries to imitate Steve Jobs, but it's so obviously just an act. He mixes in politics with business, a blunder that never would have happened to Steve.

This will not end well.

Last edited by Tui; 29th January 2017 at 12:24 AM..
Old 29th January 2017
  #264
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoughlan View Post
If it were that easy, why do you think they're not just doing it?
Because Tim Cook honestly doesn't understand why most would want a desktop computer as he thinks the iPad can do it all.

Apple's Tim Cook declares the end of the PC and hints at new medical product

Thus he has the company not focusing on that and they are leaving money on the table.

Also I think they are starting to live in a bubble and have gotten out of touch. The touchbar is a prime example of this. Watch the intro video of them on stage and listen to some of the interviews with them - they honestly think they were changing the face of computing with this. With the years of R&D that went into that they could have done so much. Meanwhile they are too stubborn to admit that they were wrong about laptops with touchscreens.
Old 29th January 2017
  #265
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoughlan View Post
Considering that's a 10% higher market share than any computer manufacturer has ever held in the modern era, and 4x what Apple currently has, you should probably go ahead and send your ideas to Cupertino...

It's very easy to sit back and say "there's room for improvement" or come up with fantastic computers that match the needs of you and your friends, but I promise you there are a ton of extremely intelligent people looking at this every day, and it's just not that simple.

Companies full of intelligent people have failed before. By this logic companies wouldn't fail with their teams of highly intelligent people looking at things. Fact is people and companies can make mistakes, and I think Apple is making them now. I have never seen such animosity towards them as I have lately, and from people who have been with them since before they even made the first Mac.
Old 29th January 2017
  #266
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoff View Post
Companies full of intelligent people have failed before. By this logic companies wouldn't fail with their teams of highly intelligent people looking at things. Fact is people and companies can make mistakes, and I think Apple is making them now.
My point with the intelligence comment was not that Apple is immune to failure. As you rightly state, no company is. My point was that making product decisions for a global computer company is much more complex than the people in this thread make it out to be, and Apple's executive team is much more competent than many in this thread make them out to be. There's a lot to consider here.

Quote:
I have never seen such animosity towards them as I have lately, and from people who have been with them since before they even made the first Mac.
I have similarly observed this animosity, and was on the border of feeling it myself. But it's worth remembering that for every angry Apple diehard that's been buying Macs since the 80s, there's probably a kid growing up who loves iPhones and buys apps and uses Apple Pay to balance them out.

I agree it would be best to keep both camps happy. As I've said before, Apple wouldn't be around but for the loyal purchasers, and turning their back on them feels poor. But in terms of impacting the company going forward? Probably doesn't make a dent at all.
Old 29th January 2017
  #267
Lives for gear
 

Slightly off topic, but still relevant, some might be interested in what this guy did to soup up his trash can and seems to have got better results than maybe he could form Apple, but certainly for a whole lot less cash:

Old 29th January 2017
  #268
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
He should be fired for this memo alone.
Yeah, god forbid the guy take a stance on something he believes in. It's almost like he has a vision for the world he wants his products used in. Definitely don't want that.
Old 29th January 2017
  #269
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
One can agree or disagree with his "vision". My point was that he's injecting himself into partisan politics in a way Steve Jobs never would have done.
Ah yes, god forbid he do anything differently from Steve Jobs, too.
Old 29th January 2017
  #270
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Q.E.D.:

http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/28/14...e-orders-apple

"In my conversations with officials here in Washington this week, I've made it clear that Apple believes deeply in the importance of immigration -- both to our company and to our nation's future."

How boneheaded is such a statement.

- He places an entire company in one political corner.
- He claims to speak on behalf of all (!) Apple employees.
- He, by definition, alienates all potential and existing Apple customers who happen to disagree with him on an issue that has nothing to do with Apple products.

- Of course, he also appears to completely misunderstand what the executive orders are all about. Does he expect to employ Syrian refugees..?

He should be fired for this memo alone.
I normally agree with you on lots of things but not this. First off your claim that Cook was simply taking a partisan political stance doesn't seem to be the case here when he clearly stated that this Executive Order affected many Apple employees. Sounds to me like he's standing up for them more than anything else. And you better get used to it if the current administrations plans regarding Tariffs comes in to being which threatens to affect Apple in a big way. So no I don't see Cook playing partisan politics here by any stretch.
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