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Tim Cook on Mac Desktop commitment Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 20th April 2018
  #1921
Gear Nut
 

This is very funny

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
You know nothing
I know a bit.

Quote:
and present no relevant facts
Yes I do.

Quote:
but your view points that you keep repeating as if they would become true if repeated sufficiently.
If they are not true explain us why instead express hate in my regards

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Your views are not facts,
I know the differences between point of view and facts.
I have expose booth categories but it appears that you are confused because you don't explain nothing, you are only saying that I am a bad boy

Maybe it's true, but you don'e explain nothing so, it appears that you are simply angry with me. I am sorry but the facts are there and if you don't lke them there is not my fault.

Quote:
however, and you obviously know very little about Macs in general.
if you say so it's sure that you are right. (ahemm... my first Mac was a Mac Plus )

Quote:
I build my own desktops too. That doesn't make me a computer designer. I have no idea why you think you are one.
I don't think I am one and this must be the 4th or 5th time that I say that.
Do you need more?


Quote:
Have fun with your Cheesegrater, Phackintosh or whatever you end up with.
Lol

Be cool man, in the end are only machines

PS
Phackintosh is nice

Last edited by johannes2510; 20th April 2018 at 04:27 PM.. Reason: Phackintosh
Old 20th April 2018
  #1922
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by johannes2510 View Post
I don't think I am one and this must be the 4th or 5th time that I say that.
You keep repeating how YOU know how to make a great desktop, referring to your own builds, and that Apple's efforts are all Humbug. That's pretending YOU are a computer designer. If you really think you're not, then stop using your builds in your silly argumentation.

What facts did I talk about? It's the facts about what the Apple team currently do within their project of building a modular —whatever this will mean — Mac Pro for release in 2019. Of this you present no facts, but your "analysis" of what you have read in an article or two. That's laughable. You make a shallow interpretation and stack assumptions upon assumptions. That's not presenting facts. That's hot air. Good thing I have a fan.
Old 20th April 2018
  #1923
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Mikael B, your personal attacks are unwarranted. It is you who presents no facts but mere vitriol. Stop doing it.
Old 20th April 2018
  #1924
Gear Nut
 

OMG Michael, you must take it easy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
You keep repeating how YOU know how to make a great desktop, referring to your own builds
Not ME, anybody that have a minimun study the subject because IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.
I have no build a PC, never. I have always use Macs but few months ago I realize that it's time to have a modern machine. Apple propose for my needs no solutions if I don't pay crazy extra money for components that I don't need. So I start to study the options and was clear that I can only switch to windows or go hackintosh. I choose the second way, study for a bit what components where good for me and compatible with Mac Os and ask to a guy to do it for me, because I am not able to do.
Now, the workstation is perfect for me, silent, powerfull and all inside a case. That make me an expert of building computers? Honestly I have no idea but most important I don't care at all, because all that matters to me is to have Mac OS running fantastic and "with no bottleneks for my workflow".
The end.

Quote:
What facts did I talk about? It's the facts about what the Apple team currently do within their project of building a modular —whatever this will mean — Mac Pro for release in 2019. Of this you present no facts, but your "analysis" of what you have read in an article or two. That's laughable. You make a shallow interpretation and stack assumptions upon assumptions. That's not presenting facts. That's hot air. Good thing I have a fan.
The fact that on the statement of Apple guys there are ridiculous elements that show that they are making marketing and insulting pros with theyr "we are study workflows and bottlenecks", because as I have alredy say, and so other people here, this in insulting because thoses things are perfectly known by professionals each for his sector.

The proof?

Me

Yes me, not a computer designer or a super expert, a composer that has always use Macs and with some study can understand what to do and lot of people that never have thinking at chose the components for a build can do that with some study, and can have machines that works perfectly for they needs, like mine that is powerfull, silent,'modular' etc.

Those are the facts that I have always speek here:

Apple do show pretending study for rocket science when a total newbe like me, with the help of a pro builder, do a Magic Brand New Mac Pro.

Are no facts all this facts?
Of course they are.

Last edited by johannes2510; 20th April 2018 at 05:33 PM.. Reason: errors
Old 20th April 2018
  #1925
Lives for gear
 
zephonic's Avatar
If you can be this mad at Apple about their perceived disregard for “pros”, you need to make more music!

At the end of the day, it’s just a stupid computer. Not worth getting worked up over.
Old 20th April 2018
  #1926
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zephonic View Post
If you can be this mad at Apple about their perceived disregard for “pros”, you need to make more music!

At the end of the day, it’s just a stupid computer. Not worth getting worked up over.
I agree but because I always use Macs and now if I want do the same I must pay a crazy nonsense tax, if I can I say that this people have lost the contact with reality.
Because if thinking Apple way is a sort of way of life, well nowdays is not an healthy one.
Old 21st April 2018
  #1927
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zephonic View Post
If you can be this mad at Apple about their perceived disregard for “pros”, you need to make more music!
And, is not that I are mad at Apple period, the problem is that this statement reveal an orrible attitude (in my personal opinion of course) that can resume like ''we are the best so we can say no matter what the people will just acept'' and been myself an Mac user I found this attitude offensive. Not ''to me'' but to all the people that trust in their ''think different''.
In my recent experience this ''different thoughs'' is well expressed by 4.500€ that still in my wallet because I have refused to ''think different''.

I have found this ''different thoughs'' to much expensive

So I started to "think more different" and I will put on my PC an adesive with a banana
Old 24th April 2018
  #1928
Lives for gear
An important part of workflow is being able to buy a suitable computer for the job, preferably one that's updated more than once every five years. Right there Apple has failed. They have a lot of nerve talking about workflow after the iUrn abortion. Keep hope alive though guys, seriously.
Old 24th April 2018
  #1929
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
I've done some in-depth research on the workflow of pros. I talked to nearly every single one of them. It turns out, they want

Maximum power

&

Maximum expandability.


It took me years to find that out. OK, what do I win?

Old 25th April 2018
  #1930
Lives for gear
 
Monkey Man's Avatar
 

A job at Apple.
Old 25th April 2018
  #1931
TNM
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
What? My 5s certainly wasn't slower in iOS 11, but faster. OS utilities? Heard about the Command Line?

I agree that a major update every second year makes more sense. Personally I skip the major updates I feel are "meh".




Here is Anand Lal Shimpi's analysis of this in 2013
The Mac Pro Review (Late 2013)
I'm not sure how much of this is relevant to later boards, but it would be nice if you knew about these things.



Apple assured me it wouldn't throttle. Proof or links?
it's in videos of cpu tests.. the way you are so rude, find them yourself.. there are so many imac PRO video tests showing the cpu hitting 95 degrees and throttling. It will take you 1 minute to find. Even the 8 core does it.
Apple have designed them to never ramp up the fans, well almost never, to be quiet.. yes we need this for an imac that is in front of our face, but unfortunately they run too hot.

Good for you re your phone. You are one of the lucky ones.. My Ipad 4, my iphone 5s and ipad air 2 are ALL slower in OS 10 then even worse in 11.. i have had to do a bunch of optimisations to make them even responsive. With my iphone, there is a delay even dialing someone. Ahh, the days of ios 7 and my iphone 4S.. will never get it back.. worked so well...

There is literally court cases going on for apple slowing down devices with newer OS.. there are so many reports all over the web and so many "tips" to try improve it.. why would those exist if i was in a minority?

Sounds like you are the one who has zero idea what they are talking about other than to be here shilling for apple.

I have been faithful to apple and never gotten anything but problems for it.. For many years..

Why can't they make an OS that runs as quickly as SL did? My imac with 10.6.8 feels faster than their newest machines with high sierra in terms of graphical response and overall system feel.

As far as the mac pro, i do know about these things.. they could have upgraded it. They didn't want to spend the minimal resources to do so.

Bye. Muted.
Old 25th April 2018
  #1932
TNM
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Mikael B, your personal attacks are unwarranted. It is you who presents no facts but mere vitriol. Stop doing it.
Oh ok, i thought it was me..

He's just attacking anyone whose opinion he doesn't agree with. A "tolerant" person I am sure. Just mute him like i did. Problem permanently solved
Old 25th April 2018
  #1933
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
...When Apple does not say anything about an unreleased product, they're unprofessional.
When Apple says something about an unreleased product, it's all theatre.

Regardless of what Apple does and says, there's always some drama and conspiracy theories going on. ...
So much drama that even denunciations of the drama are dramatic.

This seems like a bit of a straw man characterization of those who are skeptical of the future of the mac pro--my own analysis of apple's future plans vis a vis the mac pro is prosaic, and is heavily informed by what apple is doing as opposed to what they are saying, as well as widely known business principles/strategies.

Perhaps only 1% of folks here are truly PRO, but they all represent potential consumers of high powered computers--and the small size of the PRO (and Moist PRO) market is precisely the reason apple is reducing its investment there--or in my view, working on an exit strategy that is compassionate to their user base.

I know its normal to form some sort of emotional bond to a piece of equipment that has served well for years, as well as a vendor thereof. But in reality, apple has no moral obligation to put out products simply because one wants them, or because they have done so in the past. I would say they have a moral obligation not to lie to people, and I do expect them to release a product in 2019, or shortly after, that can be described as a mac pro.

This mac pro speculation has been going on for many years now, and my forecast of most likely outcome is it will simply be a higher powered imac with a PRO designation in the model name. But to me at this point it doesn't matter. I examined apple's actions and their words and incurred some software costs by switching to wintel. I have been building my own wintel/linux/vmware boxes since the 286 was the most powerful chip available, and for me at least, there are significant hardware cost savings that exceed my software costs of replacing apple apps with wintel ones.

For those who choose to wait for the next mac pro--I don't think that is a high risk position to take, I do expect a powerful new mac to emerge in 2019, suitable for PRO or Moist PRO daw work and video work. After that, I have a lower expectation of the product remaining in the apple strategy--except as a high end designation for the imac. So, I would say the future of mac pro is tied to the future of imac. Personally I don't want to incur the expense of the new mac pro, but for those who think it is worth it, it is indeed worth it to them.

Last edited by ponzi; 25th April 2018 at 02:23 PM..
Old 25th April 2018
  #1934
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ponzi's Avatar
A term I used, that I don't see much here, is Moist PRO. This is a humorous designation from back in the days of the rec/pit forum. My interpretation of it is that Moist PRO is used to describe studios where there is actual PRO gear, or worst yet, gear that has PRO in the product name--where the studio/bedroom studio owner naively considers themselves to be PRO because they have PRO gear. Also the word PRO is fully capitalized to indicate this is discussing the quest to be PRO. Not really an insult, but rather part of a satirical discussion. In some ways I can be characterized as being Moist PRO, but in another sense, if one is fully up to speed on the difference between PRO and a bedroom studio, and understand they are not PRO, then the Moist PRO designation would not apply. I don't know what lead to the adjective Moist. Like many of the fun things back then, it was something you didn't understand at first and learned what it meant by seeing how it was used in conversation.

There was one guy back then who created a handle on rec/pit of a fictitious character who maintained that he was PRO, with a studio using only shure SM57 microphones, frequently posting on the virtues of SM57 being the only mic a PRO studio would need. This person went so far as to create a web site for this fictitious studio complete with a guy posing with a collection of SM57 mics, complete with picture captions talking about how PRO he was--perhaps the purest embodiment of Moist PRO.

One sign that one was Moist PRO is if they read the posts of the SM57 guy and saw the website and didn't realize it was satire. Some of these not clued in folks would engage in impassioned debate/denunciation with the SM57 studio guy (perhaps praising the virtues of condenser mics), with him answering back in character, and unwittingly become players in the comedic performance art. I think the concept also acknowledged that many forum contributors wanted to be PRO and were working hard and investing money to get there, and deserved respect for their worthy and admirable goals, even though they had not achieved a level of true PRO at that time. So, it could be a term of affection as well--depending on context.

I doubt I can convey the humor of this now, but I can assure you at the time it was a wonderful running gag with moments of tears running down the face laughter. I do like the phrase Moist PRO when folks get a but too hung up on who is actually working full time in the business, or is like myself, doing it as a hobby that one hopes could evolve into something more. The whole concept is kind of about too much ego.
Old 25th April 2018
  #1935
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
I don't know what lead to the adjective Moist.
I was never on the rec/pit forum so this is purely a guess but it might be something along the lines of "Moist behind the ears" (rather than wet behind the ears). So that person would have a little experience. Just enough to make a fool of themselves.

Or maybe it is a bastardization of "most pro"?

Anyway, Apple products are indeed very much Moist PRO.

Alistair
Old 25th April 2018
  #1936
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
I was never on the rec/pit forum so this is purely a guess but it might be something along the lines of "Moist behind the ears" (rather than wet behind the ears). So that person would have a little experience. Just enough to make a fool of themselves.

Or maybe it is a bastardization of "most pro"?

Anyway, Apple products are indeed very much Moist PRO.

Alistair
That is as good a theory as any. I always pictured in my mind someone who is so excited telling you how PRO they are that they have beads of sweat on their foreheads just thinking about it.

There were other words that took on special or mythical meaning. There were references to the SOAR button, but that was clearly originated in the Bitch Slap Diaries by Mixerman. There was the Nib Nob device which represented the ultimate recording technology. We had a lot of fun talking about it--there were references to it requiring hundreds of gallons of PCB containing oil to operate. Three phase wiring that required direct connection to a power line, and its legendary ability to make bad musicians sound good and run unlimited numbers of plug ins. Then there was one guy who created the adjective PiCkLeMiLk as a derogatory adjective--complete with mixed capitalization.
Old 25th April 2018
  #1937
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
You learn something new every day - I am moist impressed!
Old 26th April 2018
  #1938
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Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Well, I'd be honoured to only be "moist" behind the ears.

I've claimed for 18 years online to have had toilet water behind my ears.
Old 26th April 2018
  #1939
Gear Nut
 
BCProject's Avatar
 

Why do we make up all this nonsense about Apple pissing all over "pros" - because they haven't made a computer that meets a very specific and narrow need in a while?

Get the computer that works for you and get on with it. Quityerbitchin'.
Old 26th April 2018
  #1940
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCProject View Post
Why do we make up all this nonsense about Apple pissing all over "pros”because they haven't made a computer that meets a very specific and narrow need…
Is not specific and is not narrow.
Just here you can read more users that think that.
In my personal experience the majority of composer, orchestrators and sound engeneers (a bit less the music producers) that have an history with Apple machines think the very same.

And is not only because they have don't made modern machines. There is other reason but I'm tired to repeat those things.

Quote:
…need in a while?
Is 5 years. For you is a “while”? For me in tech sector is an eternity.

Quote:
…Get the computer that works for you and get on with it.
There is not. Not made by Apple.
It has been explained in many literally forms by different users.
All that people have say here is disappeared like a magician trick?
And you can find the very same complaint all over the internet.

Quote:
Quityerbitchin'.
Ok with this you have convinced me, this is a very solid argumentation.
_____________________

It’s incredible that in this kind of discussion sometimes appear somebody that don’t fell the need of bring argumentation but only show the need of tell others that they are very very wrong, at all
Old 26th April 2018
  #1941
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MusiKLover's Avatar
It's humorous watching how emotional people can get in the context of a thread. One can hope such a forum is their sole means by which they vent their feelings -- unless of course it's expressed in their music (if they produce.)
Old 26th April 2018
  #1942
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timtoonz's Avatar
I think most pros would be happy if they just made a better cheese-grater. Keep the slots, room for internal storage, and just add the latest-greatest cpus, graphics and thunderbolt. That would be more than enough for me.

THe problem with any revolutionary designs, like the trash can, is the cost of transitioning to a new platform that forces you to trash all your existing tech like PCIe cards and internal drives. In years gone by, my typical 'upgrade' cost to get the newest 'pro Mac' was around 3 grand or less. When I priced out the cost of moving to a trash-can it was more like 8 grand (!) , plus a room full of extra cables and adapters and external drives. Total non-starter.

Give us the power of a modern computer, but with a 'bridge' to the past that means we don't have to take a bath on all our legacy gear. And if you can make a machine like that for less than 4,000, I think sales will be more than double whatever the trashcan sold.

Just my 2 Canadian cents.
Old 26th April 2018
  #1943
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by timtoonz View Post
I think most pros would be happy if they just made a better cheese-grater. Keep the slots, room for internal storage, and just add the latest-greatest cpus, graphics and thunderbolt. That would be more than enough for me.

THe problem with any revolutionary designs, like the trash can, is the cost of transitioning to a new platform that forces you to trash all your existing tech like PCIe cards and internal drives. In years gone by, my typical 'upgrade' cost to get the newest 'pro Mac' was around 3 grand or less. When I priced out the cost of moving to a trash-can it was more like 8 grand (!) , plus a room full of extra cables and adapters and external drives. Total non-starter.

Give us the power of a modern computer, but with a 'bridge' to the past that means we don't have to take a bath on all our legacy gear. And if you can make a machine like that for less than 4,000, I think sales will be more than double whatever the trashcan sold.

Just my 2 Canadian cents.
This. Pure common sense but Apple will want to reinvent the wheel...

KA
Old 26th April 2018
  #1944
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KorgAddict View Post
This. Pure common sense but Apple will want to reinvent the wheel...

KA
It's a near-trillion dollar company. They know exactly what they're doing. It's maybe not "common sense" in the sense that it's the sense of the thinking consumer, but it makes financial sense to Apple.

I watched a couple of Rossman's repair videos lately, and the behavior of this company versus the customer is absolutely astounding given the devotional support the latter gives the former. I'm honestly a bit surprised.
Old 27th April 2018
  #1945
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
This thread has been going for one year and 3 months.

It began with a quote by Tim Cook:

"Some folks in the media have raised the question about whether we’re committed to desktops. If there’s any doubt about that with our teams, let me be very clear: we have great desktops in our roadmap. Nobody should worry about that."

Over a year passed, and a corporation with cash reserves of 258 billion dollars has delivered - the iMac Pro, which is little more than a fancy screen plus a throttled Xeon chip.
Old 27th April 2018
  #1946
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MusiKLover's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
This thread has been going for one year and 3 months.

It began with a quote by Tim Cook:

"Some folks in the media have raised the question about whether we’re committed to desktops. If there’s any doubt about that with our teams, let me be very clear: we have great desktops in our roadmap. Nobody should worry about that."

Over a year passed, and a corporation with cash reserves of 258 billion dollars has delivered - nothing.

I think that says it all.
It might not match to what you want, but as you know the company has delivered the iMac Pros in less than a year’s time. So there’s veracity in Cook’s statement.
Old 27th April 2018
  #1947
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusiKLover View Post
It might not match to what you want, but as you know the company has delivered the iMac Pros in less than a year’s time. So there’s veracity in Cook’s statement.
You quoted me while I wrote to include the iMac Pro in my post, as you can see.

I still don't think that Apple, a hugely resourceful company, has much to show for itself. The iMac Pro is like a Honda Civic with a Ferrari engine, and the dealer tells you "Here's the race car you asked for".

Anyway, I sincerely hope Apple snap out of their apathy. At some stage, I'd like to buy a new Mac and feel good about it.
Old 27th April 2018
  #1948
Gear Maniac
 
tsrono's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KorgAddict View Post
This. Pure common sense but Apple will want to reinvent the wheel...

KA
Oh ****, you figured it out. They're going to make it a wheel. Like a cheese wheel. Taller than a Mac Mini, twice as big around, lots of ports around and open center like the trashcan. All silver metal. Cheese wheel.

Old 27th April 2018
  #1949
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
At this stage, nothing would surprise me.



Old 27th April 2018
  #1950
TNM
Lives for gear
I love Tui.. always posts the right stuff
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