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Tim Cook on Mac Desktop commitment Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 19th April 2018
  #1891
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Bennett View Post
Hey what's with the ad hominem attack? This is a discussion forum, not somewhere one should throw insults. People have different viewpoints.
You're right. I'm not at all tired with you personally. Just the IMO mindless Apple bashing that lead to nowhere, as I see it. I see no basis for mistrusting Apple. Admittedly no basis for trusting them either. But carry on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Bennett View Post
So they haven't before? All their previous designs ignored the professional community?

I'm not a designer true, I'm a user—and I know quite well what I want from a Mac Pro.
Well. Apple kind of acknowledged they dropped the ball with the 2013 Mac Pro a year ago. Remember?
Yes, I know too what I want. But we're not "All Pro Users". Which is my point and I think Apple's. Apple have never been about building the machines people (say they) want, but the machines people didn't know they'd want once made real. Admittedly they build a Mac Pro far from what even many Pro users wanted to see in 2013. This doesn't mean we must mistrust them with their good intentions now. I don't think it can be said Apple has a track record of being dishonest. They simply make mistakes from time to time as do most big companies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Bennett View Post
If 'tomorrow's computer' means that current software won't run, interfaces or dongles or other hardware won't work and you need to hang drives or adapters off it, then I'm not sure many Pros are going to be on board.
I don't see how the computer of tomorrow must come to that.

Last edited by Mikael B; 19th April 2018 at 08:58 PM..
Old 19th April 2018
  #1892
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by johannes2510 View Post
Absolutely. Because they are talking about nothing. It’s pure marketing in “drama show”.
I disagree and I think you have presented no facts supporting your conclusion. You don't work at Apple so you don't know this. Nor do I. I choose to believe them and that they are trying to build a great Pro Computer. If not, they can go and do something to themselves.

We could both be right about this. But you're not.

Last edited by Mikael B; 19th April 2018 at 08:59 PM..
Old 19th April 2018
  #1893
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by johannes2510 View Post
What I have say after, is for remark that in pro market it’s important consider what are the priorities and the “wow effect” is not one of them.
In pro market “wow” come after, maybe for last.
I think you're wrong here. You seem to think "Wow" in the Pro market must be design as in looks or something superficial. It's not about that! It's about function.

If you've never heard a sound engineer go "Wow" in the studio then I wonder what kind of people you create music with, what with and what you put out that makes that such a rare occurrence.
Old 19th April 2018
  #1894
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by johannes2510 View Post
The problem with Apple is that they desire to make a better form that is the circle, because they "think different".
So stay on your 2008 Mac Pro. Problem solved. It's perfect after all.
Old 19th April 2018
  #1895
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
I disagree and I think you have presented no facts supporting your conclusion. You don't work at Apple so you don't know this.
Working or not at Apple change nothing. It's about facts.

Say "we are study the workflow and bottleneks of pro sector" like they have discovered a new universe it's ridiculous and is a drama show (simple marketing) and this is a fact because, like I and others have say, this problems are very know by the professionals.

I am not a tecnician, I am a composer that work from many years with computers (Macs) and I know very well what I need for my work and I know very well what are the today configurations.
I am not a tecnician and not a super engeneer from Apple but I have just chose all the components of my new hackintosh (I am writing right now on it) and a guy have assembled for me and do the hack.

And it's very powerfull, silent and rock solid.
So, if I can do this WTF are doing at Apple?

They do drama queens

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
I choose to believe them they are trying to build a great Pro Computer.
Me too hope than they will build a nice machine, but I have finish to belive in people that make shows and statements that are ridiculous and offensives for basic intelligences.

We will see, but for the moment, here in Italy, if you want buy an equivalent of my 8700K you must pay 2.000€ plus that I have paid my hackintos and if I overclock the CPU at 5.0ghz well, even the 12 core Mac Pro (plus 4.500€) can arrive at 8700K performances.
I have done test and the maths.

Sorry, but I have lot of difficulties to trust a company that have not shame to sell machines with obsolete hardware at crazy prices.


Quote:
I think you're wrong here. You seem to think "Wow" in the Pro market must be design as in looks or something superficial. It's not about that! It's about function..
I don’t think this but that was the sense of “wow”.

So I don’t understand your point.

In my post “wow” meaning “look” and “superficial”. So what is your point?

And look, I have no problems with nice look machines but if I need to work well, I don't care at all because what I need it's exactly what you say: functionality, that it's exactly that I have on my hands, now.

i7 8700K that at 5.0ghz outperforms the Mac Pro 12 cores.
5 hard drives M.2/SSD and HD.
32gb Ram
All in one case and death silent.

If I can do that WTF (again) are doing at Apple?

Drama queens

Those are facts, I have right now in my studio this machine running Mac OS and without the need of "magic study of mysterious workflows". This is ridiculous.

I start supposing that this "magic new Mac Pro" they have no idea what to do and are desperate in search of a very new and revolutionary form factor.
Well, I will be very happy if they found it, but for the moment it's only a show and pro's still need machines that works, now.
Old 19th April 2018
  #1896
Lives for gear
 
zephonic's Avatar
@johannes2510: what you want is a PC. Just roll with it. Good luck.
Old 19th April 2018
  #1897
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by johannes2510 View Post
I start supposing that this "magic new Mac Pro" they have no idea what to do and are desperate in search of a very new and revolutionary form factor.
This is the sense I'm getting also. They are literally clueless.

Why Tim Cook is Steve Ballmer | VentureBeat
Old 20th April 2018
  #1898
Gear Maniac
 
noobist's Avatar
 

Unhappy Have Apple lost their minds?

Current Mac Pro was launched in 2013 (even then its GPUs were severely outdated). It’s 2018 and we may not have a new Mac Pro until 2020... Possibly based on Apple own ARM chips (resulting in a potentially painful transition... again...). iMac has serious thermal throttling issues and fans that are too loud for studio use. MacBook Pros are now unreliable and also suffer from thermal throttling and loud fans - and are absurdly expensive. iMac Pro is insanely expensive and overkill - I’d rather a cheaper desktop without build it screen that uses highest end consumer (ie 8700k) rather than served grade Xeon components. Same performance (actually better for my use case as single core performance is key for many DAWs).

There’s some of us ‘Pro users’ hanging in there on a thin thread of hope. Many have jumped ship as Apple’s Pro lineup has left us in the dark for the last 5 years.

My Late 2013 MacBook Pro 15 is surely due for an upgrade soon. Current gen equivalent is far more expensive than the one I purchased in 2013 and the CPU is only a hair faster. Couple that with the problematic MacOS High Sierra and I feel like moving platform. My plan was always to move to a MacPro next - it had never occurred to me at the time that Apple may not plan to update its machine for 6-7 years!!!?

I know they keep reassuring us but if they really cared they could just whack some hi end consumer stuff in a pretty case and call it day - or even overpriced server grade - while still working on their new modular MacPro.

I think enough is enough. I hate the idea of moving to Windows but I honestly have no choice anymore. At the end of the day I’ll save money and open up the path of upgradeability and repairability.

Bad Apple. Shame on you for letting your long term customer base down. We were the ones who fished you out of bankruptcy all those years ago. And this is how you treat us - chasing the big $$ of casual consumerism.
Old 20th April 2018
  #1899
TNM
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by noobist View Post
Current Mac Pro was launched in 2013 (even then its GPUs were severely outdated). It’s 2018 and we may not have a new Mac Pro until 2020... Possibly based on Apple own ARM chips (resulting in a potentially painful transition... again...). iMac has serious thermal throttling issues and fans that are too loud for studio use. MacBook Pros are now unreliable and also suffer from thermal throttling and loud fans - and are absurdly expensive. iMac Pro is insanely expensive and overkill - I’d rather a cheaper desktop without build it screen that uses highest end consumer (ie 8700k) rather than served grade Xeon components. Same performance (actually better for my use case as single core performance is key for many DAWs).

There’s some of us ‘Pro users’ hanging in there on a thin thread of hope. Many have jumped ship as Apple’s Pro lineup has left us in the dark for the last 5 years.

My Late 2013 MacBook Pro 15 is surely due for an upgrade soon. Current gen equivalent is far more expensive than the one I purchased in 2013 and the CPU is only a hair faster. Couple that with the problematic MacOS High Sierra and I feel like moving platform. My plan was always to move to a MacPro next - it had never occurred to me at the time that Apple may not plan to update its machine for 6-7 years!!!?

I know they keep reassuring us but if they really cared they could just whack some hi end consumer stuff in a pretty case and call it day - or even overpriced server grade - while still working on their new modular MacPro.

I think enough is enough. I hate the idea of moving to Windows but I honestly have no choice anymore. At the end of the day I’ll save money and open up the path of upgradeability and repairability.

Bad Apple. Shame on you for letting your long term customer base down. We were the ones who fished you out of bankruptcy all those years ago. And this is how you treat us - chasing the big $$ of casual consumerism.
honestly if it wasn't for the insane windows unique plugin limit instance issue, i would have jumped ship and bought one of TAFKAT'S machines.. But since i use mostly UAD, i am hugely affected by it, therefore really have no choices, since all my projects are at least 128 tracks these days (40 UAD plugins hits the limit of the OS)...

Apple are really annoying me more and more every day.. They keep making my phone and tablet slower with every single update, they keep dumbing down mac os utilities, their os upgrades are way too aggressively timed and cause so many compatibility issues every single time.. I am tired of it...

And what's with the constant flat out LIE they backed themselves into a corner with Trashcan? They could have absolutely, 100%, upgraded them with the same grade next gen chips.. which would have made no difference to thermals, if anything, they were more efficient and ran cooler! Why couldn't they go to the haswell 8 core instead of the ivy bridge? Haswell performed much better, and at least that would have been *something* and not 6 years old tech. There is zero reason why they couldn't have done it.. Offer up to 12 cores, but newer versions.. No one said they HAD to go to 18 or 24 cores whilst we wait, heck i'd have been happy with the 8 core haswell.. just *some* sort of update...

Imac Pro runs way too hot, it will not last.. it throttles too.. i just do not trust a 10 core let alone an 18 in that chassis.. no way.. if they let us buy applecare for 6 years, then maybe. If it goes wrong with that, it will happen AFTER the three years..Heat is the enemy of all electronics.
Old 20th April 2018
  #1900
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zephonic View Post
@johannes2510: what you want is a PC. Just roll with it. Good luck.
A Mac is a PC.

What I want is a PC with Mac OS.

I have one and is with the specifics and performances that I need.

I have the new Mac Pro and it's magic

So, if I have this magic new mac pro today, why Apple don't call me for learn how to do this magic thing?

Ho yeah, I understand, they are studying the mysterious bottleneks and the exoterics workflows that need magic engeneers (that only them have of course) for discover the new shape of weel.

This is a show and a poor one. better look at Netflix on my new Mac-Magic-Pro

PS
Hey Apple, "Mac-Magic-Pro" is my creation but if you want we can discuss...
Old 20th April 2018
  #1901
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
They are literally clueless.
I don't think so. I think that they trust that they are Gods and this make man blind.
Old 20th April 2018
  #1903
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by johannes2510 View Post
What I want is a PC with Mac OS.
No, what you want is a Windows PC, obviously.

I don't know what the next MacPro will be, but it will probably not be a fully customizable and user upgradable machine. You may get more options than what the Trashcan offers, but not to the same level of customization than your self built machine.

Also, I dont get why you're so frustrated with Apple. You just bought a new machine that should work at least for the next 5-6 years. That's enough time for Apple to roll out their now MacPro and the rumored home made processor (if true). Then you'll have more than enough time to study your options.
Old 20th April 2018
  #1904
Quote:
Originally Posted by johannes2510 View Post
i7 8700K that at 5.0ghz outperforms the Mac Pro 12 cores.
That CPU only has 16 PCIe lanes, it is a powerful chip but for a multi purpose system like the MacPro which also needs to suit the much larger graphics community with 16 lanes per GPU, it is by far not a solution for Apple.


Quote:
Originally Posted by johannes2510 View Post
A Mac is a PC.

What I want is a PC with Mac OS.

I have one and is with the specifics and performances that I need.

I have the new Mac Pro and it's magic

So, if I have this magic new mac pro today, why Apple don't call me for learn how to do this magic thing?

Ho yeah, I understand, they are studying the mysterious bottleneks and the exoterics workflows that need magic engeneers (that only them have of course) for discover the new shape of weel.

This is a show and a poor one. better look at Netflix on my new Mac-Magic-Pro

PS
Hey Apple, "Mac-Magic-Pro" is my creation but if you want we can discuss...
What you offer is a gaming PC which simply does its audio job. I am sure you have done everything right. But Apple needs to cover a few more bases and offer something more than just a fast PC with OSX. The minute they do that, people will build their own PC as the added value lacks completely. You can blame them for not offering something which does not work for you, you cannot blame them for trying to do things different. After all, that's their adagio. You can decide for yourself whether that suits you or not.
Old 20th April 2018
  #1905
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNM View Post
honestly if it wasn't for the insane windows unique plugin limit instance issue, i would have jumped ship and bought one of TAFKAT'S machines.. But since i use mostly UAD, i am hugely affected by it, therefore really have no choices, since all my projects are at least 128 tracks these days (40 UAD plugins hits the limit of the OS)...
Could you tell me more about that issue ? I never run into such issue myself... is it UAD related ?
Old 20th April 2018
  #1906
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran_ks View Post
No, what you want is a Windows PC, obviously.
Ok you know better than me what I want. Obviously

Quote:

I don't know what the next MacPro will be, but it will probably not be a fully customizable and user upgradable machine. You may get more options than what the Trashcan offers, but not to the same level of customization than your self built machine.
And they will make, again, the same error. The minimum must be like the cheesgrater or they will fail, again.

Quote:
Also, I dont get why you're so frustrated with Apple. You just bought a new machine that should work at least for the next 5-6 years. That's enough time for Apple to roll out their now MacPro and the rumored home made processor (if true). Then you'll have more than enough time to study your options.
I am not frustrated, I'm very happy with the hackintosh. I say only that it's incredible that a company with such resources can't understand some basic realities and do what their pro people ask.
Is not for chance that lot of people that was Mac users now are building hackintoshes if they need a new workstation.
Old 20th April 2018
  #1907
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
That CPU only has 16 PCIe lanes, it is a powerful chip but for a multi purpose system like the MacPro which also needs to suit the much larger graphics community with 16 lanes per GPU, it is by far not a solution for Apple.
Because they must at all cost make a "magic machine" that is "perfect" for all.

Is precisely this way of thinking that is nonsense and that have generate the trashcan mistake, because the reality of pro sector demand different configurations for different tasks.
It's not my opinion, is that the things are in the real world.

I don't need more than 16 lanes per GPU and lot of pros are like me, and I refuse to pay extra money only for make happy a wrong concept, a 5k screen that I don't need, a pro GPU that I don't need.

Quote:
What you offer is a gaming PC which simply does its audio job.
No, because a gaming PC have a powerfull GPU that I don't have and a gaming PC don't need 5 drivers in differents format and sizes and normally is not death silent and often not coled at air.

Quote:
I am sure you have done everything right. But Apple needs to cover a few more bases and offer something more than just a fast PC with OSX. The minute they do that, people will build their own PC as the added value lacks completely. You can blame them for not offering something which does not work for you, you cannot blame them for trying to do things different. After all, that's their adagio. You can decide for yourself whether that suits you or not.
I don't blame Apple for doing things different, at all, but if exist a reality you cannot ignore because if you do you finish to offer the trashcan.

The idea is to make machines for all kind of pro users.

Ok let's see...

In pro sectors there are XXX configurations that this guys need.
Can we make one machine that cover all this needs?
Sure but will cost zillions.
So... what we can do?
Idea! We made "modular" that in my house means "build a PC".
Ok wait a moment... there are plenty of people that allredy are doing that... but "we" must do it different.

Ok boys, no problem, do it different but please do not a nonsense, again.
And do not that cost become a nonsense too.

And in the meantime what this pro guys must do? Waiting of the word of Gods?
No, they build PC's and hackintoshes.

I don't blame Apple for want make things different, but if there are a thing called reality you must do things, different or not, in that reality, not in a imaginary one where all people say "wow" only because there are an apple logo on it.
Old 20th April 2018
  #1908
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by johannes2510 View Post
Ok you know better than me what I want. Obviously
Because, reading your posts, I can see your expectations are far away from Apple's business plan. Just look at the pro line, even going back to G5 and tower MacPros, nothing in their line has ever been as modular as you obviously want. Apple never let you "built your PC", and I dont think it's gonna happen anytime soon. The new Mac Pro may have some level of modularity, but not what you seem to expect.

There's nothing wrong with building a Windows PC by the way. It's just a different workflow from companies with different business models. You say you're not frustrated, but then why posting so much about Apple business model ? If you're happy with what you got, just move on !

Also, going back to what I wrote earlier, speaking about what "pro" want is a tough game. I know many pros perfectly happy with their MacBook Pro, iMac and Trashcan MacPro. Pro composers, pro sessions musicians, pro recording studio owners, pro post house owners... all have different expectations.
Old 20th April 2018
  #1909
Quote:
Originally Posted by johannes2510 View Post
Because they must at all cost make a "magic machine" that is "perfect" for all.

Is precisely this way of thinking that is nonsense and that have generate the trashcan mistake, because the reality of pro sector demand different configurations for different tasks.
It's not my opinion, is that the things are in the real world.

I don't need more than 16 lanes per GPU and lot of pros are like me, and I refuse to pay extra money only for make happy a wrong concept, a 5k screen that I don't need, a pro GPU that I don't need.


No, because a gaming PC have a powerfull GPU that I don't have and a gaming PC don't need 5 drivers in differents format and sizes and normally is not death silent and often not coled at air.


I don't blame Apple for doing things different, at all, but if exist a reality you cannot ignore because if you do you finish to offer the trashcan.

The idea is to make machines for all kind of pro users.

Ok let's see...

In pro sectors there are XXX configurations that this guys need.
Can we make one machine that cover all this needs?
Sure but will cost zillions.
So... what we can do?
Idea! We made "modular" that in my house means "build a PC".
Ok wait a moment... there are plenty of people that allredy are doing that... but "we" must do it different.

Ok boys, no problem, do it different but please do not a nonsense, again.
And do not that cost become a nonsense too.

And in the meantime what this pro guys must do? Waiting of the word of Gods?
No, they build PC's and hackintoshes.

I don't blame Apple for want make things different, but if there are a thing called reality you must do things, different or not, in that reality, not in a imaginary one where all people say "wow" only because there are an apple logo on it.
Apple has always built single spec multilane Xeon systems. The trashcan just made it less flexible. To me it sounds like Apple have never built a system which was intended for you.
As stated above, if it doesn't suit you, you have the choice to ignore it. Apple does not make systems dedicated to a single market.
Old 20th April 2018
  #1910
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran_ks View Post
Because, reading your posts, I can see your expectations are far away from Apple's business plan. Just look at the pro line, even going back to G5 and tower MacPros, nothing in their line has ever been as modular as you obviously want. Apple never let you "built your PC", and I dont think it's gonna happen anytime soon. The new Mac Pro may have some level of modularity, but not what you seem to expect.
I have always acepted the “less modularity” of Apple machines because they was upgradable in aceptable ways, until the trashcan, and because I am use to work with Mac Os, and I have always acepted the major cost for have it.
But there are reasonable limits and with the trashcan and now with the iMac Pro they are far beyond.
For me is nonsense spend 4.500€ on plus (trashcan) for have a machine with similar performances that I have now with the 8700K. And is nonsense spend lot of money for a 5k screen and a pro GPU that I dont’t need (iMac Pro).
That mean that today Apple machines are much less configurable than before and this is called “regression” not innovation because we are talking about pro sector, not consumer.

It’s simple. Apple don’t like this reality? No problem guys but don’t say that you “care about” because is not true.

Quote:
There's nothing wrong with building a Windows PC by the way. It's just a different workflow from companies with different business models. You say you're not frustrated, but then why posting so much about Apple business model ? If you're happy with what you got, just move on !
I am not frustrated, I am hungry because when I see such resources working in fools ways that is what happen to me.
It’s not rocket science, it’s very simple and there are lot of people waiting that this guys start making machines that ave sense in the real world.
But they, instead, make interviews where they say that they are studying the “bottleneks and the workflows”

This is a nonsense situation.

Quote:
Also, going back to what I wrote earlier, speaking about what "pro" want is a tough game. I know many pros perfectly happy with their MacBook Pro, iMac and Trashcan MacPro. Pro composers, pro sessions musicians, pro recording studio owners, pro post house owners... all have different expectations.
Sure me too know people that are happy with this machines, but I know also lot of people that are not happy at all with the today Apple offers and they are pro too.
For me, and may others that I know, there is not a single machine that is at measure for us, or you must spend a lot of money for things that you don’t need that, for me, is crazy.
Old 20th April 2018
  #1911
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
Apple has always built single spec multilane Xeon systems. The trashcan just made it less flexible. To me it sounds like Apple have never built a system which was intended for you.
As stated above, if it doesn't suit you, you have the choice to ignore it.
Reed my answer above.

I have always acepted the less modularity, and G5's and cheesgraters was configurable in a way that was enough for me and I was happy with my Mac OS.
I can change drivers, ram and even cpu and there are PCI expansions.

Now I found myself with the option to spend a lot of money for nothing or go hackintosh way and the hackintosh way give me the power to chose more.
It's very simple.
I have no problem to have less choices but for me it's absurd have near no-choice AND/OR overpice.

Quote:
Apple does not make systems dedicated to a single market.
But it appears, with the "nodular statement" that they are thinking on it or at less in "a sort of it"...
Old 20th April 2018
  #1912
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran_ks View Post
Just look at the pro line, even going back to G5 and tower MacPros, nothing in their line has ever been as modular as you obviously want.
I used to have a Xeon cheese grater, and that was one nice machine. Very quiet, 4 drive bays, PCIe slots which I needed for my RME card, large RAM trays for upgrades, several FW & USB & Ethernet ports. The concept was modular enough for my needs and that of many "pros". Hence, it was very popular and successful.

How they could go from this - an industry-leading concept and design - to the crummy, yet overpriced and dysfunctional trashcan remains a mystery.
Old 20th April 2018
  #1913
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
I used to have a Xeon cheese grater, and that was one nice machine. Very quiet, 4 drive bays, PCIe slots which I needed for my RME card, large RAM trays for upgrades, several FW & USB & Ethernet ports. The concept was modular enough for my needs and that of many "pros". Hence, it was very popular and successful.

How they could go from this - an industry-leading concept and design - to the crummy, yet overpriced and dysfunctional trashcan remains a mystery.

I'm still using the 2008 model so I'm not disagreeing about those machines performance... but I wouldn't too much expect something like that coming back.

Personally, I dont need all those slots and ports anymore. If they came up with an updated Trashcan (newest CPU, TB3 ports) it would be a no brainer for my workflow. The biggest issue I have is that they didn't really updated them since 2013.
Old 20th April 2018
  #1914
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post

How they could go from this - an industry-leading concept and design - to the crummy, yet overpriced and dysfunctional trashcan remains a mystery.
Delusions of grandeur
Old 20th April 2018
  #1915
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by johannes2510 View Post
I don't need more than 16 lanes per GPU and lot of pros are like me, and I refuse to pay extra money only for make happy a wrong concept, a 5k screen that I don't need, a pro GPU that I don't need.
I don't think his point was about the GPU, it was about having only 16 lanes directly to the CPU, and the remaining PCIe lanes go through the z370 chipset. So this means that anything running through the chipset by definition shares roughly an x4 connection. In other words, one x16 graphics card would force all storage to go through x4. Or in yet other words you'd have more limitations when it comes to for example NVME x4 connections compared to both Intel's and AMD's HEDT platforms (or Ryzen 3/5/7 for that matter).
Old 20th April 2018
  #1916
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
I don't think his point was about the GPU, it was about having only 16 lanes directly to the CPU, and the remaining PCIe lanes go through the z370 chipset. So this means that anything running through the chipset by definition shares roughly an x4 connection. In other words, one x16 graphics card would force all storage to go through x4. Or in yet other words you'd have more limitations when it comes to for example NVME x4 connections compared to both Intel's and AMD's HEDT platforms (or Ryzen 3/5/7 for that matter).
Correct, exactly what I meant. Using the chipset for M.2 drives for example, max bandwidth will be 3GB/s. So if you have an M.2 or PCIe SSD which handles 6+GB/s, it will throttle like crazy. So there is more than just a bunch of fast cores. It is also the reason why the 8700K is not a direct competitor to the 7800X, despite lower price but similar performance.
Old 20th April 2018
  #1917
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by johannes2510 View Post
Working or not at Apple change nothing. It's about facts.
You know nothing and present no relevant facts, but your view points that you keep repeating as if they would become true if repeated sufficiently. Your views are not facts, however, and you obviously know very little about Macs in general.

I build my own desktops too. That doesn't make me a computer designer. I have no idea why you think you are one. Have fun with your Cheesegrater, Phackintosh or whatever you end up with.
Old 20th April 2018
  #1918
Gear Nut
 
BCProject's Avatar
 

Just vote with your money.

I share the frustration of wanting a cheesegrater MacPro with current-gen internals that Apple refuses to make.

I bought an iMac Pro - which isn't the *exact* configuration I wanted but should serve me well for many years. We live in a golden age of options - find what works for you.
Old 20th April 2018
  #1919
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by noobist View Post

Bad Apple. Shame on you for letting your long term customer base down. We were the ones who fished you out of bankruptcy all those years ago.
Yes, but this is not a unique stance and is the common sentiment since last year from almost everyone here in this discussion, Pro users or not.

Either Apple will build a great modular Mac Pro in 2019 or they will not. What we think about this now matters very little. I'd rather it's a great machine 2019 than a fine one in the spring of 2018. If it's a great system there will be plenty of customers whether we all have gone Windows or not.

Last edited by Mikael B; 20th April 2018 at 04:30 PM..
Old 20th April 2018
  #1920
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNM View Post
They keep making my phone and tablet slower with every single update, they keep dumbing down mac os utilities, their os upgrades are way too aggressively timed and cause so many compatibility issues every single time.. I am tired of it...
What? My 5s certainly wasn't slower in iOS 11, but faster. OS utilities? Heard about the Command Line?

I agree that a major update every second year makes more sense. Personally I skip the major updates I feel are "meh".


Quote:
Originally Posted by TNM View Post
…Why couldn't they go to the haswell 8 core instead of the ivy bridge? Haswell performed much better, and at least that would have been *something* and not 6 years old tech. There is zero reason why they couldn't have done it.. Offer up to 12 cores, but newer versions.. No one said they HAD to go to 18 or 24 cores whilst we wait, heck i'd have been happy with the 8 core haswell.. just *some* sort of update...
Here is Anand Lal Shimpi's analysis of this in 2013
The Mac Pro Review (Late 2013)
I'm not sure how much of this is relevant to later boards, but it would be nice if you knew about these things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNM View Post
Imac Pro runs way too hot, it will not last.. it throttles too.. i just do not trust a 10 core let alone an 18 in that chassis.
Apple assured me it wouldn't throttle. Proof or links?
Topic:
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