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Tim Cook on Mac Desktop commitment Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 10th April 2018
  #1831
Gear Maniac
 
tsrono's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Jones Sr View Post
p.s. I also think a lot of the hand wringing over no new Mac Pros would be solved by them simply updating the stupid Mac Mini after all this time. Modern i7 CPUs are really really fast, as are SSDs and ram. Is anyone gonna seriously argue that if Apple announced a 2018 Mac Mini with a current 8th generation quad core i7 cpus (with on-chip Radeon), 16 (or preferably up to 32gb) optional ram, a user-accessible SSD or M2 slot, HDMI 2.0+ port and Thunderbolt/USB3.0/3.1, that no-one would buy them? It's such an obvious product and it's absence seems much more like userbase manipulation than engineering obstacles...

Honestly I think I would seriously consider this over any new 2019 Mac Pro if it looked quick enough to run Pro Tools etc. It's precisely that Apple are not updating the Mini that is causing so much speculation about the delayed Mac Pro, because options for potential buyers are so limited right now.
Saw an article making this same point just a bit ago. It's really a shame that the Mini hasn't been updated in years...I'd likely still be on a Mac right now if they had. Would likely consider swapping back from Windows next year if the trashcan Macs drop on the used market or the Minis are released as decent (and serviceable) machines at reasonable prices. Not sure I'd bet on them returning the Mini back to a state where the user can swap out some basic components, but if they incorporate the ideas from the Mac Pro into something Mini-prices, it may just happen.
Old 10th April 2018
  #1832
Gear Nut
 

Forgive my english, Sir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
Threads involving Apple are always an irresistible magnet for drama queens.
You quoted me, so you are saying that I am a drama queen (or/and a conspiracy theorist)?

Quote:
When Apple does not say anything about an unreleased product, they're unprofessional.
When Apple says something about an unreleased product, it's all theatre.
No, THIS time IS theatre, and a very bad one.

Quote:
Regardless of what Apple does and says, there's always some drama and conspiracy theories going on.
No drama or conspiracy for me. Only sadness to see a company that in past has do good things for professionals and now do… strange things…

Quote:
Are you suggesting that Gearslutz is a 'pro forum'? I'd estimate that maybe 1% of the posts here are by real professionals, or cover actual professionally relevant content. How many real professionals have time to waste on Internet forums?

I can only imagine what an unbelievably horrible job it would be for an Apple engineer to sift through content on GS, or any other forum, for that matter, in search of actual constructive criticism from a real world pro perspective.
You are right.
I too fell a lot of pain for Apple’s engeneers if I immagine this poor people reading non perfect-ideal-pure-and-with-perfect-design and 100% pro forums.

What a terrific image.

Quote:
The drama in some of the Apple threads is so absurd it's almost amusing.
What is very amusing, for me, is that you don’t speak about the content of others people posts but comment on personal and insult others.

That is a clear sign that last years Apple behavior in pro sector is not ecsusable.
Old 10th April 2018
  #1833
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
The one thing I think it’s safe to assume they will not do is simply put together a bog standard machine that could come from any manufacturer. For better or worse, creative innovation is a part of Apple DNA and they don’t want to follow the easy and obvious path.
Ok, Apple has a different DNA, I understand that and I have no problem with others DNA’s

But, here we are speaking of professionals needs, not rocket science, and this needs are well known by everybody in this fields. They are not mysterious or a obscures secrets that need “dream teams” and years of study for understand them.

This is ridiculous because, for audio for example, you, super Apple engeneer and/or boss, go in a recording studio and ask what they need.
Time to take a coffee and take some notes in a sheet of paper and you will know all you need for build machines that are right for that needs.

After, because the DNA thing, you study all the fancy design you want and a not easy and obvious path (if exist for this needs), but if for that you need 5 years well… something is going wrong.

Quote:
Bringing in some working professionals who aren’t just weekend warriors but are actually scoring major motion pictures and similar will let them get feedback on ideas that should suggest they’re pretty serious about the effort.
It’s not hard, it’s very simple ad as already be done.This is because they are acting like “superiors beings” in a field that make this attitude ridiculous.
Read articles, speak with pros and that will take very little work because, I repeat, it has already be done.

There is no need of study the needs of professionals, what is need is modern machines.
Old 10th April 2018
  #1834
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zephonic's Avatar
"we need faster horses"


Last edited by zephonic; 10th April 2018 at 09:14 AM..
Old 10th April 2018
  #1835
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zephonic View Post
faster horses
Which is better than what Apple delivered last time: A faster pony.

Alistair
Old 10th April 2018
  #1836
Quote:
Originally Posted by zephonic View Post
"we need faster horses"
Correct to dispute, just consider someone else than Jonny Ive to come up with something usable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zephonic View Post
Not really sure what you disagree with here?

To me, that article is a clear attempt at preemptive damage control. April 2017 they had the round-table discussion about the Mac Pro, and they said it wasn't coming that year. A lot of people took that to mean it would come in 2018. If no Mac Pro would be announced at WWDC, the outcry would have been epic. That is what this article is for, to manage expectations.


As for the question why they didn't manage to leverage all the expertise they have to deliver a new professional product, that is what the comparison to General Motors is about.

Enormous companies with vast resources in terms of money, talent, expertise and institutional know-how, yet often unable to focus all those resources unless someone with sufficient authority gets all those different departments and their respective leaders on the same page. Only the CEO, or very senior management can do that.

Managing a company of that size is like being the captain of a supertanker or container ship. Changing course or direction doesn't happen instantly.

Apple's management has been focused on mobile, services and retail. Last year they finally figured out they're about to lose the pro market and understood that would have downstream implications. So they decided something had to be done. But at that level, turning things around takes time. Maybe it's too little too late, time will tell. But at least they recognize it's a problem, and don't dismiss it as something that has virtually no impact on the bottom line.
Not necessarily disagreeing, but I don't buy the excusing undertone about company growth. I have experienced myself that professional customer feedback does not always gets implemented because it either is too specialized or because some department head thinks he knows better. But Apple wasn't like a startup 20 years ago, they were already up there in the pro market, having contact with all pros. That is what disturbs me about this article. The company I worked for back then had a great partnership with Apple, there was not a single doubt they didn't have what they needed to offer the best product for that market. Some of my friends are Mac techs, configuring, installing and servicing MacPros for composers, compositing suites, broadcasters, all top of the line Apple customers. All with great feedback what works and what doesn't, all of them had contacts at Apple.

I am sure Apple will bring out a very interesting product which will attract a lot of pros, I just don't buy the nonsense in this article.
Old 10th April 2018
  #1837
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I'm going to play the devil's advocate here but: what real benefits would audio production get from a new modular MacPro ?

Power ? The actual i7 Imacs and even the Trashcan Mac Pro offer enough power for most music production applications. Even if you need that more power, the iMac pro line should do it easily.

Storage ? Sure, the advantage of a modular MacPro would be internal storage but... A couple TB SSD would provide enough storage and take way less space than any tower desktop.

Audio I/O ? Again, sure, but a TB interface like an RME UFX+ could get you 94 I/O , probably more than enough for most studios.


I'm not trying to troll anyone here. I own a 2008 MacPro and I think it's just the best computer I ever owned but I also try to find a real good reason to wait 1 or 2 more years for a new modular MacPro when I see the options we already have now. If we consider that a new MacPro would probably be in the iMac Pro ballpark price wise, what would it bring to the table that justifies about twice the price of an i7 iMac without making the iMac Pro line look bad or overpriced ? Maybe that's what Apple has to figure out.
Old 10th April 2018
  #1838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran_ks View Post
I'm going to play the devil's advocate here but: what real benefits would audio production get from a new modular MacPro ?

Power ? The actual i7 Imacs and even the Trashcan Mac Pro offer enough power for most music production applications. Even if you need that more power, the iMac pro line should do it easily.

Storage ? Sure, the advantage of a modular MacPro would be internal storage but... A couple TB SSD would provide enough storage and take way less space than any tower desktop.

Audio I/O ? Again, sure, but a TB interface like an RME UFX+ could get you 94 I/O , probably more than enough for most studios.
Well, in my experience there are just some businesses in pro audio that simply choose a path on which easy expandability is better. I own a personal audio post studio and it's Win 10 based, but all studios I go to have some sort of Mac. I've worked on iMacs, Mac pro towers and trashcans. When I've had some sort of responsibility for studio development (not mine) it actually was easier for some to have a tower, because you could easily shove a drive into the computer case and be done with it. Same with PCIe cards.

Now, if you chose Pro Tools HD TDM or HDX with Mac OS you got kind'a stuck. Upgrades in OS and/or Pro Tools meant hardware followed. So for some there was this relatively big investment in Pro Tools HD TDM/HDX and in order to now get that to last they needed a trashcan and an external chassis.

So the question now isn't so much 'can it be done' or 'is it faster', it's "why?"... as in "Why should I have to buy an external TB chassis to be able to continue working with my PT setup?"

I'd say, from what I've seen, that this notion that the trashcan is this beautiful all-you-need desktop solution really only holds true for some professionals, and for a lot of others in audio video it quickly becomes an entangled mess of cables running out the back of it. So the argument for beauty is then void.
Old 10th April 2018
  #1839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Well, in my experience there are just some businesses in pro audio that simply choose a path on which easy expandability is better. I own a personal audio post studio and it's Win 10 based, but all studios I go to have some sort of Mac. I've worked on iMacs, Mac pro towers and trashcans. When I've had some sort of responsibility for studio development (not mine) it actually was easier for some to have a tower, because you could easily shove a drive into the computer case and be done with it. Same with PCIe cards.

Now, if you chose Pro Tools HD TDM or HDX with Mac OS you got kind'a stuck. Upgrades in OS and/or Pro Tools meant hardware followed. So for some there was this relatively big investment in Pro Tools HD TDM/HDX and in order to now get that to last they needed a trashcan and an external chassis.

So the question now isn't so much 'can it be done' or 'is it faster', it's "why?"... as in "Why should I have to buy an external TB chassis to be able to continue working with my PT setup?"

I'd say, from what I've seen, that this notion that the trashcan is this beautiful all-you-need desktop solution really only holds true for some professionals, and for a lot of others in audio video it quickly becomes an entangled mess of cables running out the back of it. So the argument for beauty is then void.
Until a few years ago, I would have totally agreed with that. Having a good external HD = having a quite big, powered and noisy box on your desk but that's not the case with SSD anymore.

You're right for the HDX stuff, despite we could argue that a Trashcan with TB chassis still takes less space than the big silver MacPro.

When I bought my MacPro, it was a no brainer because iMacs weren't an option: not enough power and outboards were taking space and needed additional power, lots of hubs and so on... But today, with things getting smaller, it's becoming a more difficult choice for people who dont absolutely need internal expansion and PCIe cards. I see more and more friends and colleagues just jumping ship to laptops these days. Again, I'm not saying that I dont want to see a new MacPro, but the price vs performance point when you compare to what's already available may be an issue at least for pure music production people (again, video is another beast and I dont know enough about it to juge if the iMac Pro is a good alternative or not).
Old 10th April 2018
  #1840
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Jones Sr View Post

Apple are spinning a whole load of bollocks right now about talking to pros to find out what they want in a Mac Pro. Without even being specific to audio, have a look at the 'existing Mac Pro' users posting on places like Macrumors or Appleinsider's forums, and they are all saying the same thing.
So your idea is that Apple should not talk to Pro users and just defy to your personal take based on posts on the internet? That's deep.
Old 10th April 2018
  #1841
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Jones Sr View Post
p.s. I also think a lot of the hand wringing over no new Mac Pros would be solved by them simply updating the stupid Mac Mini after all this time. Modern i7 CPUs are really really fast, as are SSDs and ram. Is anyone gonna seriously argue that if Apple announced a 2018 Mac Mini with a current 8th generation quad core i7 cpus (with on-chip Radeon), 16 (or preferably up to 32gb) optional ram, a user-accessible SSD or M2 slot, HDMI 2.0+ port and Thunderbolt/USB3.0/3.1, that no-one would buy them?

Well put.
Old 10th April 2018
  #1842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran_ks View Post
Until a few years ago, I would have totally agreed with that. Having a good external HD = having a quite big, powered and noisy box on your desk but that's not the case with SSD anymore.
True, but a lot of post facilities need more storage than they can "affordably" get with SSDs. So we're talking many terabytes of storage, possibly including raided backups. Spinners are a better option for that.

But even if that's not the case it's still neater to shove it in a case rather than have a cable from each device running to the back of that computer. The argument that it looks neat or is sufficient in itself just doesn't hold true for those clients.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran_ks View Post
You're right for the HDX stuff, despite we could argue that a Trashcan with TB chassis still takes less space than the big silver MacPro.
I actually doubt that it does when you add in all wiring, the two chassis as well as power supplies. I'm not sure it matters much however because the point still stands that it's neater to shove PCIe cards into a tower and use its built-in power supply than to have it all externally. Not to mention cheaper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran_ks View Post
today, with things getting smaller, it's becoming a more difficult choice for people who dont absolutely need internal expansion and PCIe cards. I see more and more friends and colleagues just jumping ship to laptops these days. Again, I'm not saying that I dont want to see a new MacPro, but the price vs performance point when you compare to what's already available may be an issue at least for pure music production people (again, video is another beast and I dont know enough about it to juge if the iMac Pro is a good alternative or not).
I don't disagree with that. I just think that a lot of people that complained that Apple (maybe) finally listened to were audio and video post professionals that are in the mid- to high-end of the market, not the lower tiers and hobbyists ("consumers"). Heck, even with my setup I've ended up saving a fair amount by sticking to the Win platform. I assembled a new computer in December choosing Win 10 and AMD's Ryzen. Why? Because I have a Lynx PCI card that sounds great and works well at low latencies. That's PCI, not even PCI-e! And on Win and with that chipset I could actually choose between several motherboards that came with legacy PCI.

So I think for either the mid to higher end of the market it makes some sense to get a modular system (although of course if it goes into machine room and it's a large enough business then neither aesthetics, practicality or cost is an issue), and arguably for people like me with legacy gear that don't want to spend more money than necessary.
Old 10th April 2018
  #1843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Jones Sr View Post
No. What I'm saying is sure, talk to Pros, but please don't make a machine that is somehow narrowed down to a subset of Pros like say, the movie industry. This mistake has already been made by Apple in loading a 2013 Mac Pro with dual GPUs that were massive overkill for anyone not doing graphics work. What Apple need to do is make a machine GENERAL ENOUGH that different types of users can buy it for their purpose. What is the configurator on the Apple store website for if you can't spec the machine to your needs? If we can order from a variety of CPUs, ram configurations and storage levels on the Macbooks surely a 'modular' new desktop Mac can be reasonably customized for the purchaser.

All I'm saying really is they are at risk of overthinking this thing, where a little openness and expandability, with respect to existing third party components and peripherals would cover most requirements for most serious users.

I can almost see the argument for form over function with Apple's portables because they do need to be light and convenient to travel with. The desktops just don't have this requirement, and it should be function over form every time.
Nope, it's all about courage...

KA
Old 10th April 2018
  #1844
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stratology's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by johannes2510 View Post
You quoted me, so you are saying that I am a drama queen (or/and a conspiracy theorist)?
Actually, no, that's why the quote came after my general comments about drama in Apple threads. Different topic.




That being said:


Quote:
Originally Posted by johannes2510 View Post
No drama or conspiracy for me.
then..

Quote:
Originally Posted by johannes2510 View Post
That is a clear sign that last years Apple behavior in pro sector is not ecsusable.

This is a perfectly fine example of what I meant with 'drama'.
Old 10th April 2018
  #1845
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
Actually, no, that's why the quote came after my general comments about drama in Apple threads. Different topic.
Yes, shure...

I know very well this kind of "forums games"...

Quote:
This is a perfectly fine example of what I meant with 'drama'.
Why?

I have say that you don't comment in topic but only about people.

I have explained because Apple has doing stupid things in pro sector and why the "big declaration" of "superteam of experts" is an insult for pros, and it's evident that who are in "drama" is not me but "someone else", because you still talking about me and avoid the subject and the criticism that I have exposed.

It appears very clear at this point that you want only defend Apple by attacking people.

It's a incorrect behavior so stop this.

Answer my question if you want, or let me down if you are not intrested talking about contents.

But to be honest some "drama queen" exist in all this story and you can find them at the top floors of... Apple

You see, when a multibillionaire company that are in pro business from 20 years say that they "want understand the needs of the professionals and where are the bottleneks", well... this is a real "drama of people doing bad theatre"

When I have read this article I have think that's was a joke... but no, they pretend to be serious!
Old 10th April 2018
  #1846
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stratology's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by johannes2510 View Post
Yes, shure...

I know very well this kind of "forums games"...
..and here we have a nice example of a conspiracy theory. Why do something as breathtakingly rational as seeing posts in context and taking responses at face value when you can make up a hidden agenda instead...
Old 10th April 2018
  #1847
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
..and here we have a nice example of a conspiracy theory. Why do something as breathtakingly rational as seeing posts in context and taking responses at face value when you can make up a hidden agenda instead...
So, first "drama queen" now "conspiracy theoryst".

Stop this stupid game.

And again you are not talking about the subject but only about me.

That confirm that you have nothing to say but someting hurt you very very much

Ah, the fan boys... very funny.

PS
You know right that this means that my criticism about Apple still remain valid no?

You see, if you don't talk about them, they remain there and you can call me in many offensive ways, but the facts still there.
Old 10th April 2018
  #1848
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stratology's Avatar
 

Interesting, well thought out article by Jean-Louis Gassée about rumoured future Apple CPUs for desktops here.
Old 11th April 2018
  #1849
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Jones Sr View Post
No. What I'm saying is sure, talk to Pros, but please don't make a machine that is somehow narrowed down to a subset of Pros like say, the movie industry. This mistake has already been made by Apple in loading a 2013 Mac Pro with dual GPUs that were massive overkill for anyone not doing graphics work. What Apple need to do is make a machine GENERAL ENOUGH that different types of users can buy it for their purpose. What is the configurator on the Apple store website for if you can't spec the machine to your needs? If we can order from a variety of CPUs, ram configurations and storage levels on the Macbooks surely a 'modular' new desktop Mac can be reasonably customized for the purchaser.
OK, thanks for clarifying so well. Hopefully though, it would seem Apple are talking not to just one type of "Pro".

What I'd like to know —fully understanding Apple's info gathering process may not be open for full scrutiny —is how well our collective pain points as audio producers are taken care of. As it is right now the only way I know of making sure Apple hear from a wide variety of audio producers is if more of us use the product feedback forms Apple provides. While this is a "blackholed" way of communication I'm quite certain feedback messages aren't ignored.
Another way I suppose is if you're engaging in support for current hardware and you escalate one of the pain points in the process of this asking for this to be sent further up the chain.

While I'll never be sure, considering the Mac Pro decline since 2013 and the release of macOS 10.13.0, I feel hopeful Apple has now decided to do things right with Mac Pro reborn.
Old 11th April 2018
  #1850
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by johannes2510 View Post

You see, when a multibillionaire company that are in pro business from 20 years say that they "want understand the needs of the professionals and where are the bottleneks", well... this is a real "drama of people doing bad theatre"

When I have read this article I have think that's was a joke... but no, they pretend to be serious!
So this is an example of Apple being drama queens?:

Quoting the Techcrunch article:
Quote:
"This kind of workflow analysis has enabled Apple to find and fix problems that won’t be solved by throwing more hardware at them."

"In that case we found something in the graphics driver was not right, and once you know where to look and you fix it, it completely changes the kind of live-on-ability for that system — the productivity for that user completely changed.”
This appears to me as the Apple analysts and technicians are doing deep detailed analysis how to meet the actual needs of real Pro users. It also appears as if you have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm very happy you are not designing my next desktop computer. You clearly do not understand computer design or, alternatively you think the little you do understand is sufficient for selling millions of machines.
Old 11th April 2018
  #1851
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Stephen Bennett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post


This appears to me as the Apple analysts and technicians are doing deep detailed analysis how to meet the actual needs of real Pro users.

.
Do they not know what we want after all this time selling machines to Pro users?

We need: Faster upgradable CPUs, the potential for lots of RAM and space for multiple fast drives, bags of connectivity, (including legacy USB and Firewire) and PCIe slots and the option of really fast graphics in a box something like the silver Mac Pros.

It's not rocket science.

Stephen
Old 11th April 2018
  #1852
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Bennett View Post
Do they not know what we want after all this time selling machines to Pro users?

We need: Faster upgradable CPUs, the potential for lots of RAM and space for multiple fast drives, bags of connectivity, (including legacy USB and Firewire) and PCIe slots and the option of really fast graphics in a box something like the silver Mac Pros.

It's not rocket science.

Stephen
What's with you? The line "fix problems that won’t be solved by throwing more hardware at them" just blew right trough your mind obviously leaving no trace.

What the article describes is how great engineering is done. Focus on what matters ignoring backseat designers like yourself. Your view on computer design is clearly limited. Apple tech analysts are doing the right thing taking things seriously and talking to actual users.

Hopefully the result won't be yesterdays computer 2019, like you wish and neither the 2013 Mac Pro rebuilt, but something truly great.

The good news, with a 2019 release, is that I'll have plenty of time building my 2018 Hackintosh. The coming Mac Pro likely will put an end to that.
Old 11th April 2018
  #1853
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Stephen Bennett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
What's with you? The line "fix problems that won’t be solved by throwing more hardware at them" just blew right trough your mind obviously leaving no trace.
Hey what's with the ad hominem attack? This is a discussion forum, not somewhere one should throw insults. People have different viewpoints.

Quote:
What the article describes is how great engineering is done. Focus on what matters ignoring backseat designers like yourself. Your view on computer design is clearly limited. Apple tech analysts are doing the right thing taking things seriously and talking to actual users.
So they haven't before? All their previous designs ignored the professional community?

I'm not a designer true, I'm a user—and I know quite well what I want from a Mac Pro.

Quote:
Hopefully the result won't be yesterdays computer 2019, like you wish and neither the 2013 Mac Pro rebuilt, but something truly great.
If 'tomorrow's computer' means that current software won't run, interfaces or dongles or other hardware won't work and you need to hang drives or adapters off it, then I'm not sure many Pros are going to be on board.

Whatever Apple come up with, my list of requirements will always stand. Apple could do that today.

Stephen
Old 11th April 2018
  #1854
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post

Originally Posted by johannes2510 

“You see, when a multibillionaire company that are in pro business from 20 years say that they "want understand the needs of the professionals and where are the bottleneks", well... this is a real "drama of people doing bad theatre" 

When I have read this article I have think that's was a joke... but no, they pretend to be serious!”
Quote:
So this is an example of Apple being drama queens?:
Absolutely. Because they are talking about nothing. It’s pure marketing in “drama show”.

The rest is only bla bla bla:

Quote:
"This kind of workflow analysis has enabled Apple to find and fix problems that won’t be solved by throwing more hardware at them."

"In that case we found something in the graphics driver was not right, and once you know where to look and you fix it, it completely changes the kind of live-on-ability for that system — the productivity for that user completely changed.”
Wow… “workflow analysis”,

It’s only theatre because no one need “workflow analysis” because all people that work in the real world know very well where are the “bottlenecks” and what are the drivers problems:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Bennett View Post

We need: Faster upgradable CPUs, the potential for lots of RAM and space for multiple fast drives, bags of connectivity, (including legacy USB and Firewire) and PCIe slots and the option of really fast graphics in a box something like the silver Mac Pros.

It's not rocket science.

Stephen
Exact. It’s not rocket science and the needs and problems are very very very well known.

That it’s why the interwiew sound offensive, like that only they can understand ours problems, not us.

It’s ridiculous, arrogant and a not honest attitude.*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Bennett View Post
Do they not know what we want after all this time selling machines to Pro users?
If this is true, and I cant't trust that, that means that in the past years they don't care at all of pro users. Simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
I'm very happy you are not designing my next desktop computer. You clearly do not understand computer design or, alternatively you think the little you do understand is sufficient for selling millions of machines.
I do not will design your machine but yo know what? After few months of study, I just finish to "design" my own machine (and a guy has assembled for me and install the OS) because Apple don't do that for me and is an hackintosh i7 8700K 32gb ram with a modest gpu (because is ridiculous spend a lot of money in high end gpu's only for a DAW) two M.2 two ssd and one HD for a total of 3 tb of storage and is all in one case.
A dream without the less possible external cables that I hate.
Run magnific, powerfull just as I need and rock stable.
And if I want I can overclock the cpu.

If I can "design" my workstation and I am not an engeneer but only a humble musician, why at Apple with their superengeneers they have so much trouble to do exactly the same?

*What I think is that is for the "Apple's addicted" that live only in that world and that only the word "PC" make they sick.
Because the bad pro situation become known by more people. they risk to have they image of "the more ethical company in the world" damaged and come out with this statements for try to not be too much harm.
And for what I see in some comments here I suspect that they know very well how speek to "their people".

But don't worry, I am a drama queen and a fool conspirationist
Old 11th April 2018
  #1855
The hard part for Apple is that they *have* to offer something special. After going the dustbin route, leaving the classic tower design, they cannot come up with either design type. It has to be something new, it has to be wow, it has to convince both technically and design wise.
The latter won't be an issue for Apple, it is rather the question how well they can fit usability and modularity into a design which is special.
It is not about reinventing horses, unless they manage to invent a total replacement which actually works. I can think of some ideas they might have, but in every case, it is technically very challenging and it will most likely be very expensive, which would turn the unit in a niche product.

Regarding throwing more hardware: I actually think this is part of the solution, but not quantity wise, just quality wise. Which is exactly why the current MacPro 2013 offering is poor in every way (in my opinion).
Old 11th April 2018
  #1856
Gear Maniac
 
tsrono's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
The hard part for Apple is that they *have* to offer something special. After going the dustbin route, leaving the classic tower design, they cannot come up with either design type. It has to be something new, it has to be wow, it has to convince both technically and design wise.


They've done the mini, the cube, the tower, the cylinder...a pyramid next?
Old 11th April 2018
  #1857
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
The hard part for Apple is that they *have* to offer something special. After going the dustbin route, leaving the classic tower design, they cannot come up with either design type. It has to be something new, it has to be wow, it has to convince both technically and design wise.
That is understandable but the problem is: IF that “new thing” need more time to find/invent/create or IF don’t exist at all what gonna be happen, no Mac Pro because towers “are awful” ?

Because towers, for what is the pros needs, works very well.

Mine is powerful and totally silent and run Mac OS, so the solution for pros already exist. I Have one right here and I am writing with

This is an nonsense situation that Apple itself inventing problems where they don’t exist and that happen because they are shure that even for the pro sector they must trigger the “wow effect”.

The question is: why?

Why in the pro sector we must have the “wow effect”?

My opinion, based on my experience and on discussions in many years and with many pro musician and sound engeneers, is that we don’t care of design, we need power and modularity things that already exist.

Shure, a nice object it’s better than a ugly one, but this is not a “need”, must be an plus and at Apple they must understand with that pro people you can’t play with image and marketing, because they know very well what is primary and what is not.

And lot of machines in recordings studios you even never see because they are in control rooms, so they can be the ugly ones in the world and for the needs of work that will change absolute nothing.

This situation is a kind of paradox...

..."The Apple paradox"
Old 11th April 2018
  #1858
Quote:
Originally Posted by johannes2510 View Post
That is understandable but the problem is: IF that “new thing” need more time to find/invent/create or IF don’t exist at all what gonna be happen, no Mac Pro because towers “are awful” ?
You are overly pessimistic here. Even though I find the article full of nonsense, Apple is a serious company which will be able to release something interesting and useful. They do realize the 2013 MP is not an ideal design for the pro market.

Quote:
Why in the pro sector we must have the “wow effect”?

My opinion, based on my experience and on discussions in many years and with many pro musician and sound engeneers, is that we don’t care of design, we need power and modularity things that already exist.
Then why buy Apple? Design has always been an essential part with Apple from day 1, and it has become an even more dominating factor over time.

Quote:
Shure,
Shure is a mic brand, I am sure of that.
Old 11th April 2018
  #1859
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
You are overly pessimistic here.
Not at all. I say

“IF that “new thing” need more time to find/invent/create or IF don’t exist at all what gonna be happen, no Mac Pro because towers “are awful” ?”

not for pessimistic ideas but only for remark that what in pro sector Apple don’t “think different”, think wrong.

What I have say after, is for remark that in pro market it’s important consider what are the priorities and the “wow effect” is not one of them.
In pro market “wow” come after, maybe for last.

In prosumer sector the things are a bit different but I am talking about pros.

Quote:
Even though I find the article full of nonsense, Apple is a serious company which will be able to release something interesting and useful.
We don’t know that. But if I must base my impressions on this article, well… I am not so sure about this.


Quote:
Then why buy Apple? Design has always been an essential part with Apple from day 1, and it has become an even more dominating factor over time.
For me, and my first Apple computer was a Mac Plus, is the OS before any other design thing and when Mac OS X come out I remember very well the pleasure of work with that OS. Well, from 10.3 because first was in part a mess.

[EDIT:
and for Logic Pro, Final Cut and for me Digital performer that now exist for windows too but appears run better on Macs]


Quote:
Shure is a mic brand, I am sure of that.
It’s because I have always use Macs so I end to “speak different”

PS
But you are right, I am a bit pessimistic but not for character... after 4/5 years of nothing and now with this absurd statements you know, it's hard to be optimistic...
Old 11th April 2018
  #1860
Lives for gear
 
stratology's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
As it is right now the only way I know of making sure Apple hear from a wide variety of audio producers is if more of us use the product feedback forms Apple provides.
Exactly.

All feedback creates a bug report, each one is read by Apple. A single well written bug report can create a bug fix or new feature.

'Well written' is the keyword here. It's crucially important to be specific, include as much detail as possible, and, for feature requests, be clear why the suggested feature is a Really Good Idea.


Using the feedback page is much more effective than rants on a forum.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Bennett View Post
We need:
You're confusing 'I want' with 'We need'.

If you watched the interviews with Apple execs earlier in the thread - they explained that the vast majority of pro users are on laptops - perfect for their type of professional use. Upgradeable, modular computers are important for a small segment of the pro market - especially video, AR, VR.

So they are part of the real pro market, and Apple wants to cater for that market. But don't confuse a small, specialised subset of the pro market with the whole thing.


The pro market is diverse. The respective needs of a pro journalist, writer, web designer, photographer, designer, film maker, actor, musician, sound engineer, composer, developer, small business owner, etc. are quite different.
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