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Tim Cook on Mac Desktop commitment Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 23rd January 2018
  #1741
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
It is frustrating to learn that Apple will take years to come up with successors to the current Pros and Minis.
Apple hasn’t said anything of the sort, as far as I’m aware. They’re usually loathe to comment on the future at all, so them simply saying that nothing but the iMac Pro was going to come out for pro customers in 2017 was all we got.

That leaves the door wide open for 2018 products, much sooner than “years” from now. No guarantees, of course, but the demand is clearly there.
Old 23rd January 2018
  #1742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MusiKLover View Post
How a Tim Cook Mac Desktop Commitment Thread now veered to Android is extraordinary.
Apple focus is on iphone, they make a lot of money today but they lose market share in units. (But they are one of the few that earns money in that business)
The competition is high. Dont forget that apples success is more or less only to make a nice gui on unix technology. Unix is a for everyone and their ideas for gui will not be without completion. They need more than the iphone leg.
Old 23rd January 2018
  #1743
Deleted User
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
I'd be pleasantly surprised if you posted all this in the Linux section of the forum for those who might actually give a &@$!.
This has been posted in a few Linux threads.

As a Mac user since the original Macintosh (with a Mac SE still in working order, along with a dozen others), and now actively implementing alternatives, this cause of action is directly related to the topic of this thread.
Old 23rd January 2018
  #1744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bace View Post
The competition is high. Dont forget that apples success is more or less only to make a nice gui on unix technology. Unix is a for everyone and their ideas for gui will not be without completion. They need more than the iphone leg.
Completely ignoring the less visible contributions made by current and ex-Apple employees (a few technologies which have now been open sourced) such as Darwin, Mach Kernel, APFS, Swift language, Vision, Metal, OpenCL, Accelerate, launchd, kauth, LZFSE, dtrace, XPC, ATS, Grand Central Dispatch, Timer coalescing, Bonjour, Multihoming, et cetera.

There are also a ton of technologies and services Apple has developed over the decades that many take for granted and use daily, such as CoreAudio, CAF, ALAC, AudioUnits, Core Vidéo (QuickTime), AppleScript, Automator, AirDrop, AirPlay, TimeMachine, Spotlight, File Vault, Darwin Streaming Server, WebKit, Continuity, App Nap, XCode, and even the multitude of discontinued technologies (which are actually still in use by myself and many colleagues) such as XGrid, QMaster, HFS+, FireWire, QuickTime, et cetera.

And the technologies beneath the iOS UI no one sees directly such as ARKit, ResearchKit, CareKit, CoreML, Core Location (iBeacon), and the numerous other core technologies that also directly contribute to the user experience such as CarPlay, 3D Touch, TouchID, et cetera.

Last edited by reynaud; 23rd January 2018 at 10:30 AM..
Old 23rd January 2018
  #1745
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusiKLover View Post
How a Tim Cook Mac Desktop Commitment Thread now veered to Android is extraordinary.
Welcome to Gearslutz...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MusiKLover View Post
Do you have Serum? A heavy-duty Live Set with several Serum Tracks could make sense. The problem would be Standardization, and I’ve never seen such a predefined Live Set for this purpose. Logic users have relied on the benchmark test, Teemeister tried to modernize it with Alchemy to a slight degree of success.

Perhaps you could create a test file in Live for the aforementioned Standardization reasons. I chose Serum as it can be heavy on CPU useage, and many of Ableton’s customers have it.
You could use the demo of Serum, it works for 15 minutes which is enough for a bench. Just make sure the settings used make sense for a multitude of systems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
I don't have Serum and I'd like to use something free so more people can test with the exact same set. I was thinking replacing Kontakt with the free samplers CWITEC TX16Wx or the Sforzando. I'm not sure how popular these are, but if they seem to draw similar resources as other commercial packages, why not?

What free synths do many people use?
DAWBENCH VI uses the Kontakt demo and a downloadable set of samples. This is sample based, however.
Old 23rd January 2018
  #1746
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User View Post
Completely ignoring the less visible contributions made by current and ex-Apple employees (a few technologies which have now been open sourced) such as Darwin, Mach Kernel, APFS, Swift language, Vision, Metal, OpenCL, Accelerate, launchd, kauth, LZFSE, dtrace, XPC, ATS, Grand Central Dispatch, Timer coalescing, Bonjour, Multihoming, et cetera.

There are also a ton of technologies and services Apple has developed over the decades that many take for granted and use daily, such as CoreAudio, CAF, ALAC, AudioUnits, Core Vidéo (QuickTime), AppleScript, Automator, AirDrop, AirPlay, TimeMachine, Spotlight, File Vault, Darwin Streaming Server, WebKit, Continuity, App Nap, XCode, and even the multitude of discontinued technologies (which are actually still in use by myself and many colleagues) such as XGrid, QMaster, HFS+, FireWire, QuickTime, et cetera.

And the technologies beneath the iOS UI no one sees directly such as ARKit, ResearchKit, CareKit, CoreML, Core Location (iBeacon), and the numerous other core technologies that also directly contribute to the user experience such as CarPlay, 3D Touch, TouchID, et cetera.
Darwin is BSD, Mach is Carnegie Mellon Univeristy, Swift is by Chris Lattner, dtrace is from Sun Microsystem. Firewire is branding of ieee1394. Please tell me why the application you mention are that special instead. Sure webkit is good so OpenCL. And all the backup things you name are crap compared with what real unix system from sun used to have. Xcode? A front end to gcc or clang? HFS+ are you for real? Have you heard of ZFS?
Old 23rd January 2018
  #1747
Deleted User
Guest
Mach is Carnegie Mellon Univeristy

Yes, but only containing small portions of the CMU code but also containing Univeristy of Utah code, along with other sources, and then heavily expanded upon and customised by Apple to be a hybrid and to form part of XNU.

This was all laid out at NeXT World and WWDC by the developers involved. Even the original CMU research team members (some who later formed part of the NeXT and Apple teams or in the case of the CMU team lead Avie Tevanian) acknowledge the massive contributions made later by the NeXT / Apple teams.


Swift is by Chris Lattner

Apple employee since 2005. Swift was developed with Apple footing the entire development costs financially and via infrastructure and support. As confirmed by Chris Lattner himself at WWDC.

Notice I wrote: “contributions made by current and ex-Apple employees”.


Firewire is branding of ieee1394

Spearheaded and initially developed by Apple before becoming part of the IEEE working group. As acknowledged by several members of that group.


And all the backup things you name are crap compared with what real unix system from sun used to have.

Have you used them, and developed using the various Apple developed technologies, or are you just here say they’re useless?

Perhaps a conversation with Andy Moorer would stand you in good stead, and discover why the Sun systems were abandoned for Apple systems for media production in the early 1980s.


Have you heard of ZFS?

Yes, as a Solaris user and developer. Several valid reasons why Apple abandoned the port to OS X, instead developing a new system from the ground up.

Last edited by reynaud; 23rd January 2018 at 10:38 PM..
Old 23rd January 2018
  #1748
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by bace View Post
Darwin is BSD, Mach is Carnegie Mellon Univeristy, Swift is by Chris Lattner, dtrace is from Sun Microsystem. Firewire is branding of ieee1394. Please tell me why the application you mention are that special instead. Sure webkit is good so OpenCL. And all the backup things you name are crap compared with what real unix system from sun used to have. Xcode? A front end to gcc or clang? HFS+ are you for real? Have you heard of ZFS?
Xcode is hardly just a front end. I’m not a fan of Xcode myself but its certainly a lot more than a front end.
Old 24th January 2018
  #1749
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User View Post
Mach is Carnegie Mellon Univeristy

Yes, but only containing small portions of the CMU code but also containing Univeristy of Utah code, along with other sources, and then heavily expanded upon and customised by Apple to be a hybrid and to form part of XNU.

This was all laid out at NeXT World and WWDC by the developers involved. Even the original CMU research team members (some who later formed part of the NeXT and Apple teams or in the case of the CMU team lead Avie Tevanian) acknowledge the massive contributions made later by the NeXT / Apple teams.


Swift is by Chris Lattner

Apple employee since 2005. Swift was developed with Apple footing the entire development costs financially and via infrastructure and support. As confirmed by Chris Lattner himself at WWDC.

Notice I wrote: “contributions made by current and ex-Apple employees”.


Firewire is branding of ieee1394

Spearheaded and initially developed by Apple before becoming part of the IEEE working group. As acknowledged by several members of that group.


And all the backup things you name are crap compared with what real unix system from sun used to have.

Have you used them, and developed using the various Apple developed technologies, or are you just here say they’re useless?

Perhaps a conversation with Andy Moorer would stand you in good stead, and discover why the Sun systems were abandoned for Apple systems for media production in the early 1980s.


Have you heard of ZFS?

Yes, as a Solaris user and developer. Several valid reasons why Apple abandoned the port to OS X, instead developing a new system from the ground up.
Surely apple as contributed, but it is not origin from apple. Apple has the money and the taste to buy the right stuff. But they have not created the technology they many seems to believe. So lets here why apple re-invented the wheel.

And yes, I have used backup on both apple and sun. One has a nice gui and the other works. Apple solution is a toy for home computers to be used by grandma. Quite nice sun solution where you boot from the tape and get full unix system to run your restore software.
Old 24th January 2018
  #1750
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bace View Post
Surely apple as contributed, but it is not origin from apple.
On many of these issues you quite clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Time Machine I'll grant you is something of a disaster, but to downplay the role Apple has played in everything from the XNU kernel to Swift is revisionism bordering on delusion.
Old 24th January 2018
  #1751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bace View Post
Surely apple as contributed, but it is not origin from apple. Apple has the money and the taste to buy the right stuff. But they have not created the technology they many seems to believe. So lets here why apple re-invented the wheel.
Given the choice of an anonymous user on a forum or the words of the development team, it’s not difficult to determine who is more credible.

Quote:
And yes, I have used backup on both apple and sun. One has a nice gui and the other works. Apple solution is a toy for home computers to be used by grandma
Many developers don’t even use the OS X GUI in their daily work, remaining exclusively within Terminal.
It just works.
Old 24th January 2018
  #1752
Quote:
Originally Posted by bace View Post
Firewire is branding of ieee1394.
No, FW was developed by Apple and later adopted by IEEE.
Old 24th January 2018
  #1753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
No, FW was developed by Apple and later adopted by IEEE.
It was initiated since it was need for it. Sony and LG has lot of ipr for 1394. Apples greatest contribution was the customers. WIthout that it probably had failed.
Old 24th January 2018
  #1754
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
On many of these issues you quite clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Time Machine I'll grant you is something of a disaster, but to downplay the role Apple has played in everything from the XNU kernel to Swift is revisionism bordering on delusion.
You can not even boot it. It's a toy. Apple as done great contributions to many project, but they dont have apple as origin. Apple also make a lot of money from this projects. Nowdays you can not even boot the pro models from usb or dvd, you need a other mac. Not even network. Fcuk what I hate this bad engineering that is apple homebuilt.
Old 24th January 2018
  #1755
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MusiKLover's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bace View Post
You can not even boot it. It's a toy. Apple as done great contributions to many project, but they dont have apple as origin. Apple also make a lot of money from this projects. Nowdays you can not even boot the pro models from usb or dvd, you need a other mac. Not even network. Fcuk what I hate this bad engineering that is apple homebuilt.
Spam at this point.
Old 25th January 2018
  #1756
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stratology's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
Time Machine I'll grant you is something of a disaster
Could you elaborate on what you mean - I'm curious.

I personally never had an issue with Time Machine, the whole concept of using hard links seemed fairly innovative to me.
The main downside, as far as I'm concerned, is that there are no bootable back ups. But there are cloning utilities that take care of that (including Disk Utility - the 'Restore' function creates a cloned disk).

My best guess is that Time Machine will be replaced by an APFS based technology in the future.
Old 25th January 2018
  #1757
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
Could you elaborate on what you mean - I'm curious.
Local snapshots actually work pretty well, and they’re a perfect match for APFS. I expect that experience will continue to be really compelling.

Backing up to a NAS, however, has always been quirky and tends to degrade into a corrupted remote state with some regularity, especially on laptops which are frequently put to sleep or otherwise wind up being disconnect from network devices at inopportune moments. It will be interesting to see where it evolves from here.

I’ve largely given up and just rely on cloud synchronization for my desktop as a safeguard for simple day-to-day needs. For anything more involved I keep anything I care about on a ZFS volume on a dedicated FreeNAS box where I rely on ZFS snapshots to keep daily and monthly safeguards against human error, with RAID to guard against drive failures.
Old 25th January 2018
  #1758
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by bace View Post
Nowdays you can not even boot the pro models from usb or dvd, you need a other mac. Not even network.
Proof? You know as in actual repeatable proof by anyone anywhere and not in your friend's blogs.
Old 25th January 2018
  #1759
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
Proof? You know as in actual repeatable proof by anyone anywhere and not in your friend's blogs.
Regarding booting from an external disk? The assertion that you can’t is complete nonsense. It’s disabled by default for enhanced security, but that’s completely configurable.

Apple documentation does appear to suggest that network booting isn’t available on the iMac Pro, and I’m not entirely certain about the rationale but wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a security aspect to it.
Old 26th January 2018
  #1760
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by bace View Post
Surely apple as contributed, but it is not origin from apple. Apple has the money and the taste to buy the right stuff. But they have not created the technology they many seems to believe. So lets here why apple re-invented the wheel.

And yes, I have used backup on both apple and sun. One has a nice gui and the other works. Apple solution is a toy for home computers to be used by grandma. Quite nice sun solution where you boot from the tape and get full unix system to run your restore software.
Lattner worked for years at Apple developing Swift. Now its open source. This is common knowledge and easily verified. Please do some homework before spouting more nonsense. Wow.
Old 26th January 2018
  #1761
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
Regarding booting from an external disk? The assertion that you can’t is complete nonsense. It’s disabled by default for enhanced security, but that’s completely configurable.

Yes, that's what I discovered planing for a test. It took me about five minutes to find out.
Old 26th January 2018
  #1762
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stratology's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rezoneight View Post
Now its open source.

Here's the long list of Open Source technologies that Apple currently uses.

This includes technologies originally developed by Apple, and then open sourced - like Webkit, which was the basis for Google Chrome (Google forked it later..).
Old 26th January 2018
  #1763
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Joe Porto's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User View Post
Many developers don’t even use the OS X GUI in their daily work, remaining exclusively within Terminal.
It just works.

Yep...it's not that the OS lacks features, it's just that they aren't all accessible to the end user via the GUI.

One example is the inability to associate a Time Machine backup once it's restored. Can't do it in the GUI. You have to do a complete backup once you do the restore. But a simple Terminal command can do it no problem.
Old 26th January 2018
  #1764
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Porto View Post
Yep...it's not that the OS lacks features, it's just that they aren't all accessible to the end user via the GUI.
Spotlight via Terminal is another example.

Can’t remember the last time I used spotlight via the GUI, use it via Terminal daily.
Old 26th January 2018
  #1765
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
Here's the long list of Open Source technologies that Apple currently uses.

This includes technologies originally developed by Apple, and then open sourced - like Webkit, which was the basis for Google Chrome (Google forked it later..).
WebKit was forked from KHTML from KDE. So yes Apple has open sourced it but origin-wise it was fork of something else that wasn't from Apple.
Old 26th January 2018
  #1766
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezoneight View Post
WebKit was forked from KHTML from KDE. So yes Apple has open sourced it but origin-wise it was fork of something else that wasn't from Apple.
This hardly indicate what Apple have been doing with it since. And Apple using, contributing to open source projects and supporting open standards in software and on the web is actually a good thing. The origin of a library is not that interesting really. It's what a company do and how it behaves in the standards and software arenas that counts. Apple's record is mixed.

I think this kind of info would be even more interesting when discussing what's in the current iMac Pro. What kind of choices have Apple made with it, the hardware as well as the OS, and what do those choices mean?
Old 26th January 2018
  #1767
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ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
...I’ve largely given up and just rely on cloud synchronization for my desktop as a safeguard for simple day-to-day needs. For anything more involved I keep anything I care about on a ZFS volume on a dedicated FreeNAS box where I rely on ZFS snapshots to keep daily and monthly safeguards against human error, with RAID to guard against drive failures.
Time Machine... Now that's a name I haven't heard in a while. The only macs in my house (any more) are my wife's laptop--web browsing and email, and the mini I have connected to the large screen tv--data on them is disposable. Before I moved to microsoft for my daw and my wife's work computer, I found Time Machine maddeningly difficult to administer in a systematic manner with multiple apple computers due to its intentionally opaque one size fits all implementation to give non technical folks the 'it just works' experience--and of course the refusal to work with anything besides a proprietary apple file sharing protocol. I had built a nas with zfs myself back in the day.

Thing I couldn't get away from with a nas backup server was risk of theft and fire at home. So, very happy to use the cloud now as my backup device. Surprisingly difficult to find a cloud client, provided by multi-billion dollar companies, that can simply sync files to a folder reliably on a regular basis, but that's another story. Ended up with amazon after seemingly trying all the major offerings. What an odd tiny bit of functionality for companies to fail to do right.
Old 26th January 2018
  #1768
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stratology's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
..I found Time Machine maddeningly difficult to administer in a systematic manner with multiple apple computers

In a situation with multiple Macs that need centralised local backup, a very easy, straightforward solution is to install macOS Server ($20) on one of the Macs, and have it running as a Time Machine server.


macOS Server also a great solution for small to medium size businesses, zero licensing fees for client computers, very easy to set up.
Apart from a Time Machine server, you can also have it set up to work as a file server, Open Directory server, mail server, MDM server (!), Wiki server, etc.


One of the best features from the past, Caching Server, is now available on High Sierra clients, no need to install server for this one anymore...
Old 27th January 2018
  #1769
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
In a situation with multiple Macs that need centralised local backup, a very easy, straightforward solution is to install macOS Server ($20) on one of the Macs, and have it running as a Time Machine server.
No, thanks. I just use a Drobo with 12GB online and still 2 slots to go. TM is crap as far as I'm concerned. I keep it turned off all the time and on the old job I've had 10+ assignments getting data back from disks TM "appropriated". Crap, crap, crap. Period.
Old 27th January 2018
  #1770
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
This hardly indicate what Apple have been doing with it since. And Apple using, contributing to open source projects and supporting open standards in software and on the web is actually a good thing. The origin of a library is not that interesting really.
Where do you come up with this stuff? I never said it was an indicator of any kind. However, when talking about the origin of things that were invented at Apple its pretty important to be very specific about the origins of such things. WebKit was a fork. It wasn't invented there. Have they done a lot of work? Of course. But it's like saying Google invented Blink. They didn't. They forked it from WebKit.

Swift? Invented by Apple. WebKit? Not so much.
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