The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Tim Cook on Mac Desktop commitment Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1711
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyjohn View Post
You kept using MS's corporate design and business strategy for your counter argument so I followed your talking point and asked the source and reasoning behind it. You can always retract your argument, or I or other users will keep asking it. Sounds fair, right?
You jumped to the wrong conclusions. Mikael B wrote that Apple had no economic reason to turn into Microsoft. You wrongly interpreted that as meaning that Microsoft had "wrong corporate design" but that doesn't make any sense.

I'm pretty sure Mikael just meant that as Apple are currently financially more successful than Microsoft, they have no reason to abandon their current business model to replace it with Microsoft's.

Alistair
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1712
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
It's a duopoly, they need each other. Together, they've cornered the market with little to no way out.

Look at us, audio guys. What choices do we have, exactly? Linux? I didn't think so either.

Linux is definitively an option, albeit a somewhat limited one for many producers. Please don't be dismissive just because it doesn't fit your production. It's perfectly doable to make music on Linux and somewhat similar to DAW choice.
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1713
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyjohn View Post
I don't see any big flaws that make at least me think either of them have wrong corporate design or no economic reason behind their strategy.
Yet that was what you implied about Apple previously.
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1714
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyjohn View Post
You kept using MS's corporate design and business strategy
I did not. All I said was that Apple won't become Microsoft and one reason is that they don't have any economic reasons to "follow Microsoft". Something you would seem to believe in.

Last edited by Mikael B; 22nd January 2018 at 10:44 PM..
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1715
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
You jumped to the wrong conclusions. Mikael B wrote that Apple had no economic reason to turn into Microsoft. You wrongly interpreted that as meaning that Microsoft had "wrong corporate design" but that doesn't make any sense.

I'm pretty sure Mikael just meant that as Apple are currently financially more successful than Microsoft, they have no reason to abandon their current business model to replace it with Microsoft's.

Alistair

I couldn't have expressed this better myself (and I didn't). Thank you!
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1716
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
Linux is definitively an option, albeit a somewhat limited one for many producers. Please don't be dismissive just because it doesn't fit your production. It's perfectly doable to make music on Linux and somewhat similar to DAW choice.
I know, I'd love to use Linux/Unix myself. There's nothing wrong with the OS, however, the problem is lack of 3rd-party support. No plugins, no drivers, very few DAWs.
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1717
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
I know, I'd love to use Linux/Unix myself. There's nothing wrong with the OS, however, the problem is lack of 3rd-party support. No plugins, no drivers, very few DAWs.
As far as I know Bitwig and U-he support Linux (some distributions) which would feel like a pretty complete package for me. Very different from the plethora of options on Windows and Mac computers of course, but viable nevertheless. It's good if it grows as a music platform I think.
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1718
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
the problem is lack of 3rd-party support.
...
no drivers
Between the following three driver options, and several I/O options, all my current Linux-based audio needs are provided for.

Merging - ALSA driver - HAPI

Digigram - ALSA driver - LX-IP + LX-MADI

BlackMagic - Desktop Video driver - DeckLink 8K Pro + Intensity Pro 4K + UltraStudio 4K Extreme

Editing, Grading, Animation and Rendering, Visual Effects, Compositing, etc. workflows have always been widely supported on Linux for decades.

The Pro Audio side of things have made massive advances in just the last few months (with both Merging and Steinberg supporting the platform), with more developments in the pipeline from other manufacturers and developers.
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1719
Lives for gear
 
huub's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User View Post
Between the following three driver options, and several I/O options, all my current Linux-based audio needs are provided for.

Merging - ALSA driver - HAPI

Digigram - ALSA driver - LX-IP + LX-MADI

BlackMagic - Desktop Video driver - DeckLink 8K Pro + Intensity Pro 4K + UltraStudio 4K Extreme

Editing, Grading, Animation and Rendering, Visual Effects, Compositing, etc. workflows have always been widely supported on Linux for decades.

The Pro Audio side of things have made massive advances in just the last few months (with both Merging and Steinberg supporting the platform), with more developments in the pipeline from other manufacturers and developers.
Interesting idea, definitely.
DAWs and plug ins are not massively supported, and also: I'm very curious: would a linux based daw really be more stable in the end?

I know that some linux audio platforms (Waves soundgrid server and Lawo operating system) are extremely stable, but what if a lot of 3rd party software operates simultaneously?

Huub
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1720
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by huub View Post
DAWs and plug ins are not massively supported
My approach, as you know, is never one of "how many tools are available?"
(e.g. Ravenna vs Dante manufacturer support and available device total, likewise, OS X vs Linux software options).

Rather the question is "are the tools I require or intend to use available on the platform and functional within the environment implemented, in order to complete the task at hand?"

For audio and video, the answer currently is yes.
But, to clarify, there are still a few software options that I still require to make a complete switch to the platform. These (along with several others) are still in the pipeline, without a firm ETA.

In the mean time, these software options have hardware equivalents to allow similar workflows and achieve the desired result.

Quote:
I'm very curious: would a linux based daw really be more stable in the end?
In the case of BlackMagic (as a singular example to illustrate), DaVinci Resolve traditionally was only supported on Linux and only on a single Linux distribution (before supporting OS X and Windows).

BlackMagic currently still provides the CentOS or RedHat ISO, along with all the required dependencies included, including a few useful scripts to aid installation.

The audio and video drivers required are provided exclusively by and supported by BlackMagic.

The result is a very solid and stable environment (caveat: if you have sufficient knowledge of Linux to run a few terminal commands and maintain a database within that environment)

Quote:
I know that some linux audio platforms (Waves soundgrid server and Lawo operating system) are extremely stable, but what if a lot of 3rd party software operates simultaneously?
Leaner is always better.

I follow that approach on OS X, and it applies equally to Linux.
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1721
Lives for gear
 
huub's Avatar
This is all getting quite off-topic

I'm mostly interested in rock solid real time audio processing (a la waves soundgrid server, but on a laptop), and a rock solid realtime audio editing system (Like EVS in video, but with audio, where you can start editing during recording).
Theoretically Pyramix could do this, but my experience with pyramix (and windows!) is not that of a rock solid system.
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
Linux is definitively an option, albeit a somewhat limited one for many producers.
I'd be happy to support it, but the current choice of soft and hardware is way too limited.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
As far as I know Bitwig and U-he support Linux (some distributions) which would feel like a pretty complete package for me.
Bitwig is nice but it is not for everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User View Post
(with both Merging and Steinberg supporting the platform), with more developments in the pipeline from other manufacturers and developers.
Steinberg? Did I miss an announcement, aside from the VST SDK?
What other developers will support Linux?
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1723
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
Steinberg? Did I miss an announcement, aside from the VST SDK?
No public announcement past the SDK. So you haven't missed anything yet.


Quote:
What other developers will support Linux?
I prefer to let the manufacturers and developers announce their releases.

There's a fair amount in beta (more in alpha).
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1724
Lives for gear
 
Joe Porto's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by huub View Post
This is all getting quite off-topic
Hahaha...yeah.

I'm just hoping for Quad i7 or better Mini, or a small box modular Pro that doesn't come standard with a pair of $600 GPUs.

I'm not sure "Pro" Macs are the best solution for DAW users though, because "Pro" entails premium GPU performance, and the price that goes with it.
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1725
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User View Post
No public announcement past the SDK. So you haven't missed anything yet.
That's a bit misleading then I think. I would guess most users will think that "Steinberg supports Linux" means that Cubase/Nuendo plus their other software runs on it. That's clearly not the case then and is exactly the problem the other person pointed out.
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1726
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
That's a bit misleading then I think. I would guess most users will think that "Steinberg supports Linux" means that Cubase/Nuendo plus their other software runs on it. That's clearly not the case then and is exactly the problem the other person pointed out.
Who knows what’s in the back room. You may be pleasantly surprised.

Equally, you may be surprised at the amount of companies with Linux builds of their software for contingency planning.

Much like OS X's “secret double life”, where it supported Intel chips from the start of its development, along with other platforms most wouldn't consider.
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1727
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User View Post
Who knows what’s in the back room. You may be surprised.

Equally, you may be surprised at the amount of companies with Linux builds of their software for testing contingency plans.
Having something not available to the public, to the consumer, is not what I call an actual current support. Hardly anybody on this planet sees the word "support" that way.

That was my point.
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1728
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Having something not available to the public, to the consumer, is not what I call an actual current support. Hardly anybody on this planet sees the word "support" that way.

That was my point.
Steinberg currently officially supports the Linux platform via their SDK, along with example code for VST developers (and any other interested party), which is available to download today.

A statement such as “Steinberg supporting the platform” is perfectly in line with this fact, even if their other software is officially still Windows only.

Less than a year ago, Steinberg didn’t support the Linux platform in any form.
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1729
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User View Post
Steinberg currently officially supports the Linux platform via their SDK, along with example code for VST developers (and any other interested party), which is available to download today.
Ok, so they have an SDK for VST for Linux.

As I said, I think most people will interpret what you said as meaning that Steinberg's actual software runs on Linux, which it doesn't.
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1730
Lives for gear
 
MusiKLover's Avatar
How did this Thread veer to "What's your definition of Support?"
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1731
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Ok, so they have an SDK for VST for Linux.

As I said, I think most people will interpret what you said as meaning that Steinberg's actual software runs on Linux, which it doesn't.
Well, they have not released anything yet. But they would be stupid if they have not a research project to get cubasis to android (witch is a limited linux). If it will be good enough for commercial use is a different story, but android market share is 80 percent world wide, to big to be ignored.
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1732
Lives for gear
 
MusiKLover's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bace View Post
Well, they have not released anything yet. But they would be stupid if they have not a research project to get cubasis to android (witch is a limited linux). If it will be good enough for commercial use is a different story, but android market share is 80 percent world wide, to big to be ignored.
How a Tim Cook Mac Desktop Commitment Thread now veered to Android is extraordinary.
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1733
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MusiKLover View Post
How did this Thread veer to "What's your definition of Support?"
Well sorry for my contribution of off-topicing the thread, but I thought the statement was misleading. That's why I commented. (I'm assuming that your question is rhetorical)
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1734
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Well sorry for my contribution of off-topicing the thread, but I thought the statement was misleading. That's why I commented. (I'm assuming that your question is rhetorical)

I think I'm to blame. My comment spawned a sidebar remark into a full-blown topic. For another thread at that. I'm sorry about that.
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1735
Lives for gear
I'm still days from being able to do any tests. Is anyone else planning testing the iMac Pro? I can only test Live (and possibly Logic). I'm planning using the DAWbench test files. Any other suggestions?
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1736
Lives for gear
 
MusiKLover's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
I'm still days from being able to do any tests. Is anyone else planning testing the iMac Pro? I can only test Live (and possibly Logic). I'm planning using the DAWbench test files. Any other suggestions?
Do you have Serum? A heavy-duty Live Set with several Serum Tracks could make sense. The problem would be Standardization, and I’ve never seen such a predefined Live Set for this purpose. Logic users have relied on the benchmark test, Teemeister tried to modernize it with Alchemy to a slight degree of success.

Perhaps you could create a test file in Live for the aforementioned Standardization reasons. I chose Serum as it can be heavy on CPU useage, and many of Ableton’s customers have it.
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1737
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusiKLover View Post
Do you have Serum? A heavy-duty Live Set with several Serum Tracks could make sense. The problem would be Standardization, and I’ve never seen such a predefined Live Set for this purpose. Logic users have relied on the benchmark test, Teemeister tried to modernize it with Alchemy to a slight degree of success.

Perhaps you could create a test file in Live for aforementioned Standardization reasons. I chose Serum as it can be heavy on CPU useage, and many of Ableton’s customers have it.

I don't have Serum and I'd like to use something free so more people can test with the exact same set. I was thinking replacing Kontakt with the free samplers CWITEC TX16Wx or the Sforzando. I'm not sure how popular these are, but if they seem to draw similar resources as other commercial packages, why not?

What free synths do many people use?
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1738
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User View Post
Who knows what’s in the back room. You may be pleasantly surprised.

Equally, you may be surprised at the amount of companies with Linux builds of their software for contingency planning.
I very much hope so. It appears there's a Linux build of Reaper in the works as well.
Old 22nd January 2018
  #1739
Lives for gear
 
lowkey's Avatar
 

I'd be pleasantly surprised if you posted all this in the Linux section of the forum for those who might actually give a &@$!.

More reports from IMac Pro owners please!!
How are the fans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User View Post
Who knows what’s in the back room. You may be pleasantly surprised.

Equally, you may be surprised at the amount of companies with Linux builds of their software for contingency planning.

Much like OS X's “secret double life”, where it supported Intel chips from the start of its development, along with other platforms most wouldn't consider.
Old 23rd January 2018
  #1740
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Talk about Linux is relevant to this thread. I'm on Mac exclusively, but I also feel like I'm forced to look for alternatives, in the absence of an attractive lineup of desktops made by Apple.

It is frustrating to learn that Apple will take years to come up with successors to the current Pros and Minis.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump