The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Tim Cook on Mac Desktop commitment Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 15th January 2018
  #1651
Gear Maniac
 

´Strikingly different requirements’ for what ? Pure power ? Do you have any benchmarks to compare Ax chips and Intel/AMD, if it does make sense ? We now know Apple is planning the convergence of its apps, so a unique chip could be a strong basis for this horizon.
Old 15th January 2018
  #1652
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mininoyz View Post
´Strikingly different requirements’ for what ? Pure power ? Do you have any benchmarks to compare Ax chips and Intel/AMD, if it does make sense ? We now know Apple is planning the convergence of its apps, so a unique chip could be a strong basis for this horizon.
No, it wouldn't. Again, this discussion is about desktops. There's no need for me to make a case. Make your own with actual facts instead of fantasies, please.

Convergence is what Microsoft does, not Apple.

App Schnaps. Who cares what Apple do with their apps? Ja, LogicX in iOS would be cool. But the rest? It's all crap since they did make a few of them more dumbed down and similar.
Old 15th January 2018
  #1653
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyjohn View Post
Source?
There is no source, it's pure speculation but I can assure you I am not the only one making this speculation. Look at the way Apple operates, more and more they are designing the core pieces themselves. The A11 is ridiculously powerful. We have no idea what they've got in the works but having their Mac line use their own processor design makes complete sense. They're certainly not going to switch off of Intel to AMD.
Old 15th January 2018
  #1654
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
You mean their secret chips that actually compare to Intel's and AMD's? Because AFAIK what they make are processors for iThings. These have strikingly different requirements.
I think you need to take a closer look at just how powerful the A11 is and then broaden the horizon a bit to see that the way Apple operates is to be in control of their own destiny as much as possible. Look at all of the specialized silicon they're doing, including the in MacBook Pro and new iMac Pro. It is not a stretch to see them moving to their own chip designs and dumping Intel.
Old 15th January 2018
  #1655
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rezoneight View Post
There is no source, it's pure speculation but I can assure you I am not the only one making this speculation. Look at the way Apple operates, more and more they are designing the core pieces themselves. The A11 is ridiculously powerful. We have no idea what they've got in the works but having their Mac line use their own processor design makes complete sense. They're certainly not going to switch off of Intel to AMD.
They're pragmatists. If it's economically beneficial they'll do 'it', whatever 'it' is.

They used to run one brand of chips, then they switched because the chips ran too hot. They run AMD GPUs.

Designing and manufacturing a CPU is no small feat if you want to compete with Intel and AMD's designs. It's complicated to design and it's costly as heck. AMD's major advantage at this point is in the design relative to their product lineup. AMD can churn out new CPUs pretty quickly, with new core counts etc for different markets (i.e. consumer/prosumer/HEDT/server), without blowing too much money doing it. Their wafer-yields are apparently really good in manufacturing too so they're looking at what seems to be quite a bit better profitability per CPU than the competition (all else being equal).

I don't think Apple is not going to develop their own CPU for desktop, but I also don't think it's at all unreasonable for Apple to switch over to AMD instead. Nor do I think it's unreasonable for them to stick to Intel.
Old 15th January 2018
  #1656
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
Intel, successfully making crap since 1968. Can AMD even make the number of processors Apple need?
My understanding is that it can, or could. They have agreements in place to scale production up by moving to foundries other than their current main source. Since the design of their CPU lineup is so simple and modular it'd be relatively simple.
Old 15th January 2018
  #1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezoneight View Post
Look at all of the specialized silicon they're doing, including the in MacBook Pro and new iMac Pro.
What is special about their CPU's?
Old 15th January 2018
  #1658
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
What is special about their CPU's?
They're "magic".
Old 15th January 2018
  #1659
Lives for gear
 
Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
What is special about their CPU's?
I suspect the post you replied to was referring to coprocessors Apple has been using lately to drive ancillary functionality, not the main CPU. I am curious whether Apple will ever take the leap of running more of the system services on an A-series processor for battery-life reasons on laptops. There are some non-trivial hurdles to doing so, most of them software-related rather than strict architectural limits.

There’s less obvious reason to do likewise in a desktop, except where isolation is strictly desirable as for security purposes. Raw performance and compatibility will keep Intel in the driver’s seat in the near term, with AMD having a shot if and only if they get on the Thunderbolt bandwagon.
Old 15th January 2018
  #1660
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezoneight View Post
I think you need to take a closer look at just how powerful the A11 is and then broaden the horizon a bit to see that the way Apple operates is to be in control of their own destiny as much as possible. Look at all of the specialized silicon they're doing, including the in MacBook Pro and new iMac Pro. It is not a stretch to see them moving to their own chip designs and dumping Intel.
I really want to share what you obviously have been smoking (meant as Proverb), but I'm good thank you. I do appreciate your contrary fresh thinking though.
Old 15th January 2018
  #1661
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
No, it wouldn't. Again, this discussion is about desktops. There's no need for me to make a case. Make your own with actual facts instead of fantasies, please.

Convergence is what Microsoft does, not Apple.

App Schnaps. Who cares what Apple do with their apps? Ja, LogicX in iOS would be cool. But the rest? It's all crap since they did make a few of them more dumbed down and similar.
Please read the news before talking of fantaisies. Have you heard about project Marzipan ? Apple is preparing something big. Nobody knows when it will happen, probably not soon, but a unified AppStore is on the rails. In that perspective, a unique in-house chip makes sense.
Old 15th January 2018
  #1662
Gear Maniac
 

About A11 benchmarks, have you read this article ? Is it totally nonsense ?
Old 15th January 2018
  #1663
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by mininoyz View Post
About A11 benchmarks, have you read this article ? Is it totally nonsense ?
No it's not nonsense. More importantly look at the A11 numbers vs the i5 in the 13-inch MacBook Pro. Our friend a couple of posts above may love making insulting comments to me about smoking something but he's the one dulling his own senses apparently.
Old 15th January 2018
  #1664
Gear Maniac
 

Some articles even say the iPhone 8 smokes the 2017 Macbook Pro's i7.
Old 15th January 2018
  #1665
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mininoyz View Post
Please read the news before talking of fantaisies. Have you heard about project Marzipan ? Apple is preparing something big. Nobody knows when it will happen, probably not soon, but a unified AppStore is on the rails. In that perspective, a unique in-house chip makes sense.
Speculations aren't news.
Old 15th January 2018
  #1666
Gear Maniac
 

Bloomberg's well informed speculations are news.
Old 15th January 2018
  #1667
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
I suspect the post you replied to was referring to coprocessors Apple has been using lately to drive ancillary functionality, not the main CPU. I am curious whether Apple will ever take the leap of running more of the system services on an A-series processor for battery-life reasons on laptops. There are some non-trivial hurdles to doing so, most of them software-related rather than strict architectural limits.
Correct. The point was that Apple is doing more of their own silicon work and putting those devices into more than just the iOS-based devices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
There’s less obvious reason to do likewise in a desktop, except where isolation is strictly desirable as for security purposes. Raw performance and compatibility will keep Intel in the driver’s seat in the near term, with AMD having a shot if and only if they get on the Thunderbolt bandwagon.
Again I would bet AMD doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell. There is simply no good reason to move off of Intel unless they're going to move to their own chips. Apple have been known to play fast and loose with compatibility in the past. I wouldn't put it past them to do so again. They've already done the processor switch once.
Old 15th January 2018
  #1668
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezoneight View Post
No it's not nonsense. More importantly look at the A11 numbers vs the i5 in the 13-inch MacBook Pro. Our friend a couple of posts above may love making insulting comments to me about smoking something but he's the one dulling his own senses apparently.
Again, this discussion is about Desktops. I don't care what could happen to the portable computers Apple happen to make.

Also, I'm not saying their iOS oriented chips are crap. Not at all. I don't, however, see a strategical nor a financial reason for Apple to do what you're suggesting. Certainly not for desktops. Desktops. You see?
Old 15th January 2018
  #1669
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mininoyz View Post
Bloomberg's well informed speculations are news.
Well, I think Bloomberg have misunderstood some of code changes. Only coders understand the ramifications of the changes that have taken place in Apple developer tools and what not.

Anything can happen and Tim certainly isn't as skilled as a CEO compared to the previous. Yep, Apple could turn into Microsoft. That's when I'll remember that Bitwig runs on Linux.
Now, what does this have to do with Desktop computing?
Old 15th January 2018
  #1670
Gear Maniac
 

If Apple moves towards in-house chips for iOS and, let's say its laptops, that actually share the same chips as desktops, there's no reason they couldn't use someday their own chips for desktops. Ok, it's pure speculation, but it's quite logical.
Old 15th January 2018
  #1671
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezoneight View Post
…Apple is doing more of their own silicon work and putting those devices into more than just the iOS-based devices.
Yeah, and it spread all the way to, to… Well. nothing except Macbook Pro. That should tell you something.
Old 15th January 2018
  #1672
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mininoyz View Post
If Apple moves towards in-house chips for iOS and, let's say its laptops, that actually share the same chips as desktops, there's no reason they couldn't use someday their own chips for desktops. Ok, it's pure speculation, but it's quite logical.
That may be, but it's also very boring I think (to me). I'm waiting for the Mac Pro. You expect that to break in these new chips, do you?

As I said, I do appreciate your kind of thinking, but I also feel it deserves its own discussion. Maybe focused on future hardware or something. It's just an idea.
Old 15th January 2018
  #1673
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
Yeah, and it spread all the way to, to… Well. nothing except Macbook Pro. That should tell you something.
Uh, no. iMac Pro. T2.

The T2 chip makes the iMac Pro the start of a Mac revolution | Macworld
Old 15th January 2018
  #1674
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezoneight View Post
I haven't looked much at that model yet. Thanks for the correction.
Old 15th January 2018
  #1675
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
That may be, but it's also very boring I think (to me). I'm waiting for the Mac Pro. You expect that to break in these new chips, do you?
Nobody is suggesting this will happen in a year. Or even two. My suggestion was that if Apple switches from Intel they'll do it to their own design and not someone like AMD. If that switch happens it will happen across their Mac lineup. I'm not saying it's easy or going to happen tomorrow. I just think it will happen eventually across their Mac lineup.
Old 15th January 2018
  #1676
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
That may be, but it's also very boring I think (to me). I'm waiting for the Mac Pro. You expect that to break in these new chips, do you?

As I said, I do appreciate your kind of thinking, but I also feel it deserves its own discussion. Maybe focused on future hardware or something. It's just an idea.
I thought this discussion was about future desktop Macs, not only the next Mac Pro - which will certainly have this hybrid architecture launched with the latest MBP/iMac Pro. When will desktop machines will rely on Ax chips only ? Nobody knows.
Sorry to be boring, this is my last post here
Old 15th January 2018
  #1677
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezoneight View Post
Nobody is suggesting this will happen in a year. Or even two. My suggestion was that if Apple switches from Intel they'll do it to their own design and not someone like AMD. If that switch happens it will happen across their Mac lineup. I'm not saying it's easy or going to happen tomorrow. I just think it will happen eventually across their Mac lineup.
Well, I'm with you that this is more likely than an AMD switch. I think my money is on this being 5 years away or so if at all likely. I also think if this is even on their "potential scenarios" schedule they already have these machines running since some time.
Old 15th January 2018
  #1678
Lives for gear
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by mininoyz View Post
I thought this discussion was about future desktop Macs, not only the next Mac Pro - which will certainly have this hybrid architecture launched with the latest MBP/iMac Pro. When will desktop machines will rely on Ax chips only ? Nobody knows.
Sorry to be boring, this is my last post here
Now, don't be like that. That was just more than a whiff and I can't take so much at one time.

The Macworld article was very interesting. Thanks.
Old 15th January 2018
  #1679
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
Well, I'm with you that this is more likely than an AMD switch. I think my money is on this being 5 years away or so if at all likely. I also think if this is even on their "potential scenarios" schedule they already have these machines running since some time.
Agreed. I think thats a fair timeline if it's going to happen. But remember they had OS X running on Intel for years before the Intel machines were released in 2006. They also had Rosetta when they made the switch to Intel to ease things. They've done this whole thing before, twice.
Old 15th January 2018
  #1680
Lives for gear
 
Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezoneight View Post
They've already done the processor switch once.
At least twice, maybe three times depending on what you think counts. Motorola 680x0 to PowerPC to x86 (to x86-64.) The 64-bit transition has been pretty seamless because the CPUs run 32-bit code natively, but the prior two transitions were also managed reasonably well.

It’s not out of the question, but for users who have significant software investment it can be difficult as vendors will often see a must-upgrade situation as a revenue opportunity. Being able to emulate old code at respectable speeds has been important in the past, and the x86 turns out to be a fairly ugly CPU to emulate.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump