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Tim Cook on Mac Desktop commitment Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 29th December 2017
  #1411
Tui
Gear Guru
 
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This thread only exists because Apple hasn't developed anything interesting or "revolutionary" since the passing of Steve Jobs. It is a no-news thread...
Old 29th December 2017
  #1412
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitardom View Post
Arm chips have been used for security for quite a long time , its nothing new. Part of the reason for their popularity for mobile devices (trustzone) Most systems with fingerprint sensors, camera recognition, etc. are using Arm processors. Its what Apple is using them for along with some external processing for the camera and so they leave Siri on 24/7. Even the newer MBP's have an Arm in them. Its not speeding up the computer or used for regular computing tasks, its strictly hardware security with a couple hardware hooks for the camera and siri. Not sure why you found that fascinating when its not the first, or before "non apple" PC's. using them for supplementary reasons You would be really annoyed to know that the Surface Pro with LTE uses one for "instant on" capabilities as example. Arms are moving heavily into the PC market period right now in all facets.
So, you admit it's a 'dual chip computer' ? And the ARM chip isn't here to decorate : it controls the audio, the webcam, on-the-fly encryption, data transfers, RAM... in a way, it speeds up your computer, you can't deny this. MBP with touch bar was the first dual chip architecture model at Apple. Do you know consumer PCs with this kind of system ? I don't. There's a few PCs running on an ARM today, but not that much. Windows RT was a big failure BTW, same as the Trashcan - every company makes mistakes. I'm not fascinated at all by iMac pro's improvement. I'm just observing a direction of this market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitardom View Post
Again, I don't get what you are looking at with Windows 10. Its desktop is absolutely no different from 7. You do not have to have it in tablet view. If you don't like it, shut off tablet view and its identical to 7. Whenever you install Win 10 on a system, its default is the Desktop view. I never even have to look at or even acknowledge the tablet view exists.
Metro is loaded by default, even on a desktop, isn't it ? That's stupid. Metro was a mistake from MS. Many users (as me) are lost in the tiles. That's the proof one system can't rule them all - at least today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitardom View Post
Sorry, I have seen lots of the "all in ones" in recent years and have serviced quite a few of them. They exist, they sell. You can go to to any "non apple" computer retailer to this day (Best Buy for example) and purchase one. They are in any Sams Club, Costco, and Wal mart which service much of the "general public" purchases. Some of the highest rated computers of this past year were "all in ones" from companies like Dell. Lots of them are low quality, but most all manufactures make a flagship model. They would not still be on the market if they were not selling.
Ok, you're right on this point, Lenovo seems to sell more all in one PCs than Apple. That said Apple's share of the PC market is almost nothing (7-8% ?). Now I've never seen an all in one PC in use (besides in a store) and only Apple has made the thing desirable and beautiful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitardom View Post
You're not one of those people that are comparing a 150$ android phone to an almost 1k IPhone??? Phones like the Note 8 are amazing, but comparable in price. Most people I see complain are comparing apples to oranges. My Iphone 6 has turned into a turd the last 6 months. I took it in and had a new battery put in it a couple weeks ago. It helped some, but it has absolutely terrible battery life.
My Android phone was pretty cheap. I had issues after a few months of use and it was not hardware related, but only due to the crappy OS (awful SD management). I kept my beloved iPhone 3 with no issue for years... until the screen smacked the pavement. I don't want to invest in fancy Android phones because 1. I don't like these huge screens in my pocket and 2. I could get the real thing for the same price, which would be better integrated with my Mac. But after all I don't want to spend so much money in a stupid thing as a phone (even 'smart').
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitardom View Post
I seriously question if you know the market or if you "knew" the market at one time, due to obvious misgivings you have. You obviously know Apple, but that's the minority of the computer market.

btw, net admin here, CCNA, Linux certs, etc.
Keep your questions, certs and certitudes, am I too old now to play at the guy with the biggest computer.
Old 29th December 2017
  #1413
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mininoyz View Post
Metro is loaded by default, even on a desktop, isn't it ? That's stupid.
No. They changed that a few years ago now. Nov 2015 version or the July 2016 version (can't remember which -- I think the 2015 version did it.) MS listened to feedback and removed how much metro/tiles work and the defaults.
Old 29th December 2017
  #1414
Gear Maniac
 

Ok, so my wife's Dell has probably been purchased just before this date. Too bad they didn't remove Metro in the following updates. Frankly, this thing made me leave Windows when it was out. I use 7 at work as your regular Windows but we'll soon upgrade, so I'm happy to know Metro was a bad idea, according to MS
Old 29th December 2017
  #1415
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by mininoyz View Post
Ok, so my wife's Dell has probably been purchased just before this date. Too bad they didn't remove Metro in the following updates. Frankly, this thing made me leave Windows when it was out. I use 7 at work as your regular Windows but we'll soon upgrade, so I'm happy to know Metro was a bad idea, according to MS
So you've been arguing about how bad Windows 10 is without actually having used it for anything?
Old 29th December 2017
  #1416
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
Some people?

Some people are still buying horse drawn carriages. That doesn't mean that they are modern or professional transport devices...

Anyways, did you not see what I was responding to?

Alistair
Yes, you made a ridiculous statement that nobody bought the Mac Pro based on some percentage of Mac Pro users John Gruber pulled out of his rear end. Apple never said nobody needed Mac Pros. If that were the case they would have stopped selling the 2013 model and wouldn't have given it a bump a year ago (or whenever that was). Oh, and people would have stopped buying them. They didn't.
Old 30th December 2017
  #1417
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezoneight View Post
you made a ridiculous statement that nobody bought the Mac Pro
No I didn't. I spoke of the market as a whole. Obviously some people will still be buying it just as some people still buy horse drawn carriages but that doesn't mean we can call horse drawn carriages part of the modern transport market. That market collapsed and, in every day speech, we can say that people stopped buying horse drawn carriages when the auto-mobile took over.

Apple themselves have acknowledged that pro's need/want modular designs. Why would they do that if the thrash can was such a success?

I think the thrash can is a pretty cool iMac and has it's place in the Mac line-up but it should never have been the top of the line pro workstation from Apple.

Alistair
Old 30th December 2017
  #1418
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rezoneight View Post
So you've been arguing about how bad Windows 10 is without actually having used it for anything?
I tried hard when 10 was out, but it was so much confusing I stopped. Isn’t it logical ? It’s bad (to me) so I don’t use it. Do you use many things you feel unconmfortable with ? Are you ready to pay for them ? I don’t, I just have win10 on a PC at home, but I work on my trusted old Mac, where I’m 100% productive.
Old 30th December 2017
  #1419
Gear Maniac
 
tsrono's Avatar
 

lol, this thread...
Old 30th December 2017
  #1420
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rezoneight View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mininoyz
Ok, so my wife's Dell has probably been purchased just before this date. Too bad they didn't remove Metro in the following updates. Frankly, this thing made me leave Windows when it was out. I use 7 at work as your regular Windows but we'll soon upgrade, so I'm happy to know Metro was a bad idea, according to MS
So you've been arguing about how bad Windows 10 is without actually having used it for anything?
ROFL Imagine my shock
Old 30th December 2017
  #1421
Sky
Lives for gear
 
Sky's Avatar
 

Mac for Pro Audio =

* PCIe support for HDIO card and I/O port expansion
* TB3 for controlling modern interfaces (e.g. Focusrite RED 16Line)
* Minimum 32GB RAM, 64GB preferred
* User-upgradeable SSD, RAM & GPU
* No fans in the sweet spot
* Ability to configure displays and ergonomics independent of the computer

Last I checked, the current Mac Pro, Macbook Pro, iMac, and iMac Pro all fail in one or more areas.

Of course all of this is my humble opinion.

My ideal machine today would be a loaded Mac Pro 5,1 with Thunderbolt 3 and a 3rd-party flashed 1090 GPU to support modern widescreen monitors. Being new enough for AppleCare support would be icing on the cake.

Sky
Old 30th December 2017
  #1422
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyjohn View Post
ROFL Imagine my shock
Please, show me, in your infinite science, the benefits of 10 over 7 for the regular user. Every time I open this system I think it’s a mess. MS made a huge mistake mixing interfaces, in fact 3 : classic, modern and Metro. Compared to this stack, MacOS is clear and simple.
Old 30th December 2017
  #1423
Lives for gear
 
lowkey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
This thread only exists because Apple hasn't developed anything interesting or "revolutionary" since the passing of Steve Jobs. It is a no-news thread...
Then why do you keep coming back? Lol
Old 30th December 2017
  #1424
Lives for gear
 
lowkey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
Yes they are, nevertheless an increased risk with no real world advantage.
When you say no real world advantage I think you mean twice the bandwidth.
Old 30th December 2017
  #1425
Gear Head
 

F*ck Apple. They're a phone company now. They don't give a sh!t about the pro user. Just build a PC and get exactly what you want. You can construct the exact box you need and can install whatever OS you want. That's what I did recently + made the switch from Mac OS to Windows 10 Pro. You could always go the Hackintosh route if you really need Mac OS. I found that almost everything has cross-platform support (Logic is an exception) so it wasn't really hard to switch OS.
Old 30th December 2017
  #1426
Lives for gear
 
lowkey's Avatar
 

I'd suggest posting in your own new thread "TimmyMac on PC desktop commitment". I'm sure it will get to 50+ pages of interest too

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimmyMac View Post
F*ck Apple. They're a phone company now. They don't give a sh!t about the pro user. Just build a PC and get exactly what you want. You can construct the exact box you need and can install whatever OS you want. That's what I did recently + made the switch from Mac OS to Windows 10 Pro. You could always go the Hackintosh route if you really need Mac OS. I found that almost everything has cross-platform support (Logic is an exception) so it wasn't really hard to switch OS.
Old 30th December 2017
  #1427
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
I'd suggest posting in your own new thread "TimmyMac on PC desktop commitment". I'm sure it will get to 50+ pages of interest too
Haha!!
Old 30th December 2017
  #1428
Gear Nut
 

I've said this before elsewhere, perhaps here as well.

It was the professional customer that kept apple alive back in the day, when apple was struggling. I believe an investment from Microsoft helped as well.
Tim Cook came on board when Jobs was reviving the company with a new vision.
Tim Cook, if you look at his career and profile, he doesn't really have people around that disagree with him.
Actually, if you look at all of the idiotic mistakes Apple has made since Tim became CEO, you can see that as well.
Cook wants more of an upbeat happy creative team all working together.

They not only forgot about the proconsumer, they've also put off the prosumer by basically making devices that are disposable. Devices you can't work on. Devices, instead of machines.

I don't see apple ever being prosumer friendly under Tim Cook. He's just not the guy for it. Hes an industrial engineer first, and you may or may not have noticed that, Apples products under Tim Cook have basically all focused on aesthetics more so than genuine functionality. He's focused on shareholders and earnings. He's focused on "little devices bring the world together harmoniously".
He's on some mark zuckerberg ****tt basically.
He doesn't care about the professional consumer whatsoever, and any effort Apple puts into the prosumer market will be Unfocused and weak at best. But it sure as hell will cost a lot.

Apple had created a culture for computing devices that has basically consumed the whole industry! It's changed the industry completely.
Computers never were good long term investments, but Apple has made them even more disposable. Because it benefits them financially.

Apple is forward thinking under Tim Cook, but only so much as the next product "bringing people together" starting at $1k. And that product lasting 5 years max, them being disposable.
Ironically, Tim Cook supposedly is a guy concerned about the environment.
Iiiiiii don't think so Tim.

Doesn't matter whether it's Tim or somebody else, at this point, as far as Apple has gone with its little devices and apps, the board of shareholders wouldn't let them do anything but keep satisfying their greed.
Apple became such a behemoth I don't see it doing anything but consuming itself unless it makes drastic changes. Changes that Cook couldn't deal with.
They need some conflict or at least seriously differences in opinion, At Apple again. The type of conflict and difference in option that Jobs allowed and embraced.

Don't forget, Jobs picked the Pepsi CEO that fired him, to run Apple too.

Jobs just didn't really care about shareholders. He was seriously driven to accomplish things, although if he were alive today I think he would be very reflective and perhaps even disappointed about how his devices changed society.
He might actually take a deep breath, step back, and realize that the market really could use professional machines that will hold up and can be worked in by the consumer. Machines that will enable people to ACTUALLY BE PRODUCTIVE, instead of constantly being distracted.

Tim does care about the shareholders.
Tims drive is just different. He can accomplish Apple creating new devices, releasing and selling them. He can do the keynotes.
The focus and the visions is way different though.
It's like a complete; " bring everybody together, everybody is in the go and wants something small, lightweight and portable. We always need to be at the forefront of design but legacy support... what's that? It's that "here today gone tomorrow" culture.

Because yesterday doesn't give you any profits. Most of society as a whole has become that way. Not cool in my opinion.


From Wikipedia;

His first position was Senior Vice President for worldwide operations.[5] In relation to the role, Cook was quoted as saying: "You kind of want to manage it like you're in the dairy business. If it gets past its freshness date, you have a problem".[17]


Cook closed factories and warehouses, and replaced them with contract manufacturers; this resulted in a reduction of the company's inventory from months to days. Predicting its importance, his group invested in long-term deals such as advance investment in flash memory from 2005 onwards, guaranteeing stable supply of what became a key iPod Nano, then iPhone and iPad component. Competitors at Hewlett-Packard, describing their cancelled TouchPad tablet computer, later said that it was made from "cast-off reject iPad parts."[18] Cook's actions were credited with keeping costs under control and, combined with the company's design and marketing savvy, generated huge profits.
Old 30th December 2017
  #1429
Gear Maniac
 
tsrono's Avatar
 

^Yeah.

I'm not being flippant here, and certainly not towards you or anyone but, well, duh. Cook is running a business first and foremost, and he's for sure putting profit first, of course. If there's not much money to be made in 'prosumers' then they'll only invest enough to keep it running for reasons they deem worth not turning (much, if any of) a profit: diversity of options for products going forward (looks great from a long-term business perspective), ecosystem to tie users into/build 'loyalty,' and as tools for their own developers (in house and independent iOS macOS business users) to use.

From all I've seen of Apple since the iPhone happened, they're printing money, and will do anything it takes to continue to do so for as long as they can manage to. They're usually doing a good job of keeping consumers sold and spending, and that's all that matters to them. They're a business. Literally their only reason to exist is to make money. That's it.

The only thing that's surprised me about them in the years since Jobs died was the decision to waste god-awful amounts of cash for their new spaceship building HQ.

I dunno anything about Jobs so maybe he was all about just making great tools and someone else in the company strongarmed him into charging WAY more than it was actually 'worth,' but I doubt that was the case. He liked making money too, I'd bet.
Old 30th December 2017
  #1430
Lives for gear
 
Mike O's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsrono View Post
^Yeah.

Snip.......

The only thing that's surprised me about them in the years since Jobs died was the decision to waste god-awful amounts of cash for their new spaceship building HQ.
I'm not sure about everything else, but Mr. Jobs most certainly set the new expensive head quarters, designed to 'inspire', in place before his passing.
Old 30th December 2017
  #1431
Lives for gear
 
lowkey's Avatar
 

Please do tell me how I can't make music that has been professionally released on my (now 5 year old) MacBook Pro. That's about as prosumer as you can get. Or how my 4 person Architectural practice cant work on iMacs...in a professional setting.

If you can't get any work done on a Mac I'd suggest it's user error or perhaps your attitude?


Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostInDaMachine View Post
I've said this before elsewhere, perhaps here as well.

It was the professional customer that kept apple alive back in the day, when apple was struggling. I believe an investment from Microsoft helped as well.
Tim Cook came on board when Jobs was reviving the company with a new vision.
Tim Cook, if you look at his career and profile, he doesn't really have people around that disagree with him.
Actually, if you look at all of the idiotic mistakes Apple has made since Tim became CEO, you can see that as well.
Cook wants more of an upbeat happy creative team all working together.

They not only forgot about the proconsumer, they've also put off the prosumer by basically making devices that are disposable. Devices you can't work on. Devices, instead of machines.

I don't see apple ever being prosumer friendly under Tim Cook. He's just not the guy for it. Hes an industrial engineer first, and you may or may not have noticed that, Apples products under Tim Cook have basically all focused on aesthetics more so than genuine functionality. He's focused on shareholders and earnings. He's focused on "little devices bring the world together harmoniously".
He's on some mark zuckerberg ****tt basically.
He doesn't care about the professional consumer whatsoever, and any effort Apple puts into the prosumer market will be Unfocused and weak at best. But it sure as hell will cost a lot.

Apple had created a culture for computing devices that has basically consumed the whole industry! It's changed the industry completely.
Computers never were good long term investments, but Apple has made them even more disposable. Because it benefits them financially.

Apple is forward thinking under Tim Cook, but only so much as the next product "bringing people together" starting at $1k. And that product lasting 5 years max, them being disposable.
Ironically, Tim Cook supposedly is a guy concerned about the environment.
Iiiiiii don't think so Tim.

Doesn't matter whether it's Tim or somebody else, at this point, as far as Apple has gone with its little devices and apps, the board of shareholders wouldn't let them do anything but keep satisfying their greed.
Apple became such a behemoth I don't see it doing anything but consuming itself unless it makes drastic changes. Changes that Cook couldn't deal with.
They need some conflict or at least seriously differences in opinion, At Apple again. The type of conflict and difference in option that Jobs allowed and embraced.

Don't forget, Jobs picked the Pepsi CEO that fired him, to run Apple too.

Jobs just didn't really care about shareholders. He was seriously driven to accomplish things, although if he were alive today I think he would be very reflective and perhaps even disappointed about how his devices changed society.
He might actually take a deep breath, step back, and realize that the market really could use professional machines that will hold up and can be worked in by the consumer. Machines that will enable people to ACTUALLY BE PRODUCTIVE, instead of constantly being distracted.

Tim does care about the shareholders.
Tims drive is just different. He can accomplish Apple creating new devices, releasing and selling them. He can do the keynotes.
The focus and the visions is way different though.
It's like a complete; " bring everybody together, everybody is in the go and wants something small, lightweight and portable. We always need to be at the forefront of design but legacy support... what's that? It's that "here today gone tomorrow" culture.

Because yesterday doesn't give you any profits. Most of society as a whole has become that way. Not cool in my opinion.


From Wikipedia;

His first position was Senior Vice President for worldwide operations.[5] In relation to the role, Cook was quoted as saying: "You kind of want to manage it like you're in the dairy business. If it gets past its freshness date, you have a problem".[17]


Cook closed factories and warehouses, and replaced them with contract manufacturers; this resulted in a reduction of the company's inventory from months to days. Predicting its importance, his group invested in long-term deals such as advance investment in flash memory from 2005 onwards, guaranteeing stable supply of what became a key iPod Nano, then iPhone and iPad component. Competitors at Hewlett-Packard, describing their cancelled TouchPad tablet computer, later said that it was made from "cast-off reject iPad parts."[18] Cook's actions were credited with keeping costs under control and, combined with the company's design and marketing savvy, generated huge profits.
Old 30th December 2017
  #1432
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsrono View Post
I dunno anything about Jobs so maybe he was all about just making great tools and someone else in the company strongarmed him into charging WAY more than it was actually 'worth,' but I doubt that was the case. He liked making money too, I'd bet.
Yeah, I have, let's say, a slightly different view of Jobs than GhostInDaMachine seems to have. I'm also not convinced Cook is such a bad guy as the picture GhostInDaMachine paints in his post.

Alistair

Last edited by UnderTow; 30th December 2017 at 10:38 PM..
Old 30th December 2017
  #1433
Gear Maniac
 
tsrono's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O View Post
I'm not sure about everything else, but Mr. Jobs most certainly set the new expensive head quarters, designed to 'inspire', in place before his passing.
I didn't mean to imply that Jobs had no hand in it's inception. It's just surprising to me that they went through with it given the ridiculous amount of time and money that went into it, when so many of their other decisions since the iPhone's stratospheric success have been relatively conservative and safe when it comes to how they spend their money.
Old 30th December 2017
  #1434
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
This thread only exists because Apple hasn't developed anything interesting or "revolutionary" since the passing of Steve Jobs. It is a no-news thread...
So go away then and let us have the graveyard shift. I don't give one iota what you find interesting.

Last edited by Mikael B; 30th December 2017 at 10:53 PM..
Old 30th December 2017
  #1435
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky View Post
Mac for Pro Audio =

* PCIe support for HDIO card and I/O port expansion
* TB3 for controlling modern interfaces (e.g. Focusrite RED 16Line)
* Minimum 32GB RAM, 64GB preferred
* User-upgradeable SSD, RAM & GPU
* No fans in the sweet spot
* Ability to configure displays and ergonomics independent of the computer

Last I checked, the current Mac Pro, Macbook Pro, iMac, and iMac Pro all fail in one or more areas.

Of course all of this is my humble opinion.

My ideal machine today would be a loaded Mac Pro 5,1 with Thunderbolt 3 and a 3rd-party flashed 1090 GPU to support modern widescreen monitors. Being new enough for AppleCare support would be icing on the cake.
Yes, to all of that, but I don't want a tired cheese-grater design in a big heavy box. If I'm going to shell out ten grand I want a design that is for the future and not tired like yesteryear. Sturdy is fine, but there as to an elegance and not just power and flexibility.
Old 30th December 2017
  #1436
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimmyMac View Post
Haha!!
No, seriously, please do start your own thread with a suitable title. And take everyone else, including mininoyz, rezoneight and others seemingly wanting to discuss the virtues of Windows 10 with you. This is not a thread for tired rants about which OS or platform is the best. It's about Apple desktops. Period!

Whenever a reader wants to learn about Windows they'll read about Windows in discussion focused on that. How hard is that to understand?
Old 30th December 2017
  #1437
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
Yes, to all of that, but I don't want a tired cheese-grater design in a big heavy box. If I'm going to shell out ten grand I want a design that is for the future and not tired like yesteryear. Sturdy is fine, but there as to an elegance and not just power and flexibility.
Mikael, doesn't the iMac Pro fulfill your needs? What is missing?

Alistair
Old 30th December 2017
  #1438
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
Yes, to all of that, but I don't want a tired cheese-grater design in a big heavy box. If I'm going to shell out ten grand I want a design that is for the future and not tired like yesteryear. Sturdy is fine, but there as to an elegance and not just power and flexibility.
Mikael, doesn't the iMac Pro fulfill your needs? And if not, what is missing?

Alistair
Old 30th December 2017
  #1439
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostInDaMachine View Post
I've said this before elsewhere, perhaps here as well.

It was the professional customer that kept apple alive back in the day, when apple was struggling. I believe an investment from Microsoft helped as well.
Tim Cook came on board when Jobs was reviving the company with a new vision.
Tim Cook, if you look at his career and profile, he doesn't really have people around that disagree with him.
Actually, if you look at all of the idiotic mistakes Apple has made since Tim became CEO, you can see that as well.
Cook wants more of an upbeat happy creative team all working together.

They not only forgot about the proconsumer, they've also put off the prosumer by basically making devices that are disposable. Devices you can't work on. Devices, instead of machines.

All great valid points! However, I don't believe in the "only one man can lead Apple" theory. That's not how Apple was constructed. There are lots of highly intelligent individuals at Apple. Tim only needs to free them and keep allowing for building new teams for new projects. One problem Apple have suffered from since quite a few years is big projects and a team pool not growing in phase with the demands these projects put on their execution model.
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