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Tim Cook on Mac Desktop commitment Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 2nd July 2017
  #1021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Porto View Post
Apple made a mistake when they dropped the Quad Mini. Particularly when TB interfaces were introduced.

A powerful Mini is a great choice for audio, as graphics are not so much of a concern. The Mini had always been Apples best price/performance value, but they neutered it when they dropped the Quad option. I REALLY hope they do a decent Mini with similar specs to the new iMac.
I agree totally, I even purchased used 2012 quad Mini recently, as a second machine.

Old 3rd July 2017
  #1022
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zephonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Porto View Post
Apple made a mistake when they dropped the Quad Mini. Particularly when TB interfaces were introduced.

A powerful Mini is a great choice for audio, as graphics are not so much of a concern. The Mini had always been Apples best price/performance value, but they neutered it when they dropped the Quad option. I REALLY hope they do a decent Mini with similar specs to the new iMac.
I may be wrong, but I seem to remember reading at the time that Intel didn't offer a quad-core successor for the CPU that was in the Mini quad. Everybody was mad when it was dropped, but apparently this wasn't really one of Apple's signature dickhead moves.
Old 3rd July 2017
  #1023
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Intel's latest CPUs develop too much heat.Apples marriage with Intel turns to be a disaster for audio in the long run.

If they solder the parts like in the past repairs would eat up their profits very fast no matter which Mac.There must be a reason why you have to decide for Apple Care + within 60 days of your acquisition.
Old 3rd July 2017
  #1024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lllubi View Post
Intel's latest CPUs develop too much heat.
I'm not sure, what you're talking about.

Intel uses headspreader (IHS) instead of soldered IHS to die (actually their last CPU with soldered IHS was Sandy Bridge). This is typically problem only for overclocking or some of top of the line chips with high clocks in some environment without larger cooling, where you counting every degree of temp.
That's only complaint, which I've ever heard to Intel temperatures from their launch of Core micro-architecture something like 11-12y ago.
Otherwise they have rather very extensive line-up ranging from low-powered 15W CPUs up to 140W enthusiast models with larger dies, higher core count and clock.

The latest i7 quad core Mini has soldered notebook CPU exactly because of its thermal target - 45W and well the nature of this machine, which is essentially notebook guts stuffed in small cubic case. This last Mini used Ivy Bridge processor and Intel has corresponding CPU successor (eg. i7 quad core with 45W TDP) at every following generation up to latest Kaby Lake. Naturally, all of hi-end notebooks are based on that.
So the reason, why Apple stopped selling and didn't introduce new quad core Mini, is purely their business decision, which doesn't have anything with Intel product line or increased heat.

Quote:
Apples marriage with Intel turns to be a disaster for audio in the long run.

man, AMD didn't have anything to offer for about 10years up until start of this year with their CPUs.. (not talking about GPUs).. So again, I don't know, where you came to that conclusion. Just after couple moths of hype.

Even today, their Ryzens are rather promise of forthcoming interesting CPUs with further optimization of their architecture. I'm glad for that (competition is always good) and they seems to be back in the game.
They pushed final price down, because they have optimized manufacturing of smaller 4 core CCUs, which leads to high yield (it's less demanding to manufacture CPU die, which is "spliced" from smaller units).. Every their CPU consist of at least two of those units, even quad core Ryzens, which has disabled individual cores within each unit.. but of course there's also downside of that, because of increased latency, when communicating between CCUs.

So it can be amazing, if you want the maximum amount of cores per buck (for instance to amaze pals at forum) or really have massively threaded application, which benefit from that.. but if you simply want to select best option with reliable performance across all workloads regardless of price, it's likely still Intel.
Not to mention other associated Intel components, which are naturally more refined after all the years.. with regards to compatibility, existing driver support at OS X etc.

So even today after Ryzen launch.. for some professional, high-end or rather luxury computers (Apple never designed their computers to be affordable at first place), the cost saving for one component isn't so important.

Finally there's Thunderbolt, which is still Intel exclusive thing.. although they recently released some news about making it freely available for other vendors, it's not clear, if that applies also to controller chips.. where they can still preserve own exclusivity.. (eg. anyone can make peripheral devices without fees, but not the chips at motherboard or CPUs with its support).

Quote:
If they solder the parts like in the past repairs would eat up their profits very fast no matter which Mac.There must be a reason why you have to decide for Apple Care + within 60 days of your acquisition.
Solder or not.. it's mostly matter of used CPU, if they want some low power variant and space savings, they picks BGA (soldered) variant. Of course there's consequence of that for manufacturing and replacements of whole boards during repairs then. If they picks some more powerful CPU model, it's likely socketed.

Michal
Old 3rd July 2017
  #1025
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zephonic View Post
I may be wrong, but I seem to remember reading at the time that Intel didn't offer a quad-core successor for the CPU that was in the Mini quad. Everybody was mad when it was dropped, but apparently this wasn't really one of Apple's signature dickhead moves.
Oh, it was. Apple claimed they couldn't fit the new CPUs into old Mini cases... And the entire tech world bought it. Apparently, it didn't occur to anybody that Apple could have designed slightly bigger enclosures - if size really was an issue. Personally, I think neutering the Mini was more of a marketing decision since Minis were/are extremely popular and very good value. They were, however, also cannibalising iMac and Mac Pro sales.
Old 3rd July 2017
  #1026
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
I'm not sure, what you're talking about.
I am talking about Apple not offering Apple Care plus in Europe.
What is Apple scared about if their latest systems are safe like you try to explain ? Not a sign of confidence if you ask me.
Old 3rd July 2017
  #1027
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stratology's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lllubi View Post
I am talking about Apple not offering Apple Care plus in Europe.
What is Apple scared about if their latest systems are safe like you try to explain ? Not a sign of confidence if you ask me.

Here are AppleCare products available in Ireland (>Europe..).

AppleCare covers phone support and hardware repairs, similar to the limited warranty.

AppleCare+ is an insurance that also covers accidental damage. Meaning, when you drop your Mac, trash your screen by sitting on your laptop, or pour coffee on your keyboard, that's covered by AppleCare+, but not by AppleCare.


In Europe, you can get AppleCare+ for iPhones and Watch, AppleCare for everything else.



Also, there's this thing called 'statutory rights' in Europe, that basically covers hardware repairs for free within different time periods (2 years in Germany, 6 years in the UK, 5 in Scotland, 6 in Ireland, etc.).
Old 3rd July 2017
  #1028
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Joe Porto's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lllubi View Post
I am talking about Apple not offering Apple Care plus in Europe.
What is Apple scared about if their latest systems are safe like you try to explain ? Not a sign of confidence if you ask me.
I've been purchasing Apple computers from the same local Apple store for over a decade. I had an older white MacBook...way out of warranty. About 5 years ago, my kid spilled juice in the keyboard. It also had cracked where the screen attaches to the body.

I took it in to see how much to repair it. They called with the estimate, and said since I was a loyal customer, they would fix it at no charge. They ended up replacing the keyboard, logic board and bottom case for free.

That same store replaced my 2009 iMac HDD at no charge, even though it was out of warranty.

Obviously this is not going to be the case for everyone, but this is one of the reasons I continue to be loyal to Apple, and have since purchased all of my Apple products from that store.
Old 3rd July 2017
  #1029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
No, it's not relevant at all. If you don't like Apple's offerings, choose some other solution. Don't, however, claim Apple's boxes are expensive if you can't build a box with all of which is in their machines at a better price. Quality comes with costs.
I own a commercial recording studio, and there is nothing more relevant than the bottom line. You're judging the value of tools by the cost to manufacture and not the cost to yourself. From a business standpoint that's warped thinking. As a status symbol maybe it makes sense to overpay for unneeded features, but it doesn't make sense financially. Unneeded features have nothing to do with quality.

And let's not drag laptops into the conversation; the thread is titled "Mac Desktop."
Old 3rd July 2017
  #1030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratology View Post
Here are AppleCare products available in Ireland (>Europe..).

AppleCare covers phone support and hardware repairs, similar to the limited warranty.

AppleCare+ is an insurance that also covers accidental damage. Meaning, when you drop your Mac, trash your screen by sitting on your laptop, or pour coffee on your keyboard, that's covered by AppleCare+, but not by AppleCare.


In Europe, you can get AppleCare+ for iPhones and Watch, AppleCare for everything else.



Also, there's this thing called 'statutory rights' in Europe, that basically covers hardware repairs for free within different time periods (2 years in Germany, 6 years in the UK, 5 in Scotland, 6 in Ireland, etc.).
Very specific thematic. Don't understand why Apple offers to repair two hardware failures and accidents for free in the US but not in Europe for a MacBook Pro for example.
Old 3rd July 2017
  #1031
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zephonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Porto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lllubi View Post
I am talking about Apple not offering Apple Care plus in Europe.
What is Apple scared about if their latest systems are safe like you try to explain ? Not a sign of confidence if you ask me.
I've been purchasing Apple computers from the same local Apple store for over a decade. I had an older white MacBook...way out of warranty. About 5 years ago, my kid spilled juice in the keyboard. It also had cracked where the screen attaches to the body.

I took it in to see how much to repair it. They called with the estimate, and said since I was a loyal customer, they would fix it at no charge. They ended up replacing the keyboard, logic board and bottom case for free.

That same store replaced my 2009 iMac HDD at no charge, even though it was out of warranty.

Obviously this is not going to be the case for everyone, but this is one of the reasons I continue to be loyal to Apple, and have since purchased all of my Apple products from that store.
My experiences are modest in comparison, but yes, Apple has mostly done right by me. I ruined a QWERTY keyboard while cleaning it, and they just gave me a new one. I wasn't happy with my iPhone 5S (can't remember why) and they just gave me a new one. I have plenty of gripes with Apple and certain aspects of their MO, but customer service isn't one of them.

As an aside (and partly in reference to illubi's post above), having lived on both sides of the pond, I generally find customer service in the US to be vastly better than in Europe.
Old 3rd July 2017
  #1032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philter View Post
I own a commercial recording studio, and there is nothing more relevant than the bottom line. You're judging the value of tools by the cost to manufacture and not the cost to yourself. From a business standpoint that's warped thinking. As a status symbol maybe it makes sense to overpay for unneeded features, but it doesn't make sense financially. Unneeded features have nothing to do with quality.

And let's not drag laptops into the conversation; the thread is titled "Mac Desktop."

No, I'm not "judging the value of tools by the cost to manufacture". I'm simply noticing the futility of comparing the price of a set of components designed together into a product with other components. Especially if one is going to complain the product is expensive.

Bottom line? That's why I choose Macs for my clients. They make money using them. End of story.

MBPs were only mentioned as there aren't any new Mac Pros to consider yet.
Old 4th July 2017
  #1033
Quote:
Originally Posted by lllubi View Post
Very specific thematic. Don't understand why Apple offers to repair two hardware failures and accidents for free in the US but not in Europe for a MacBook Pro for example.
Maybe due to competition? When some idiot tourist knocked my MacBook off the airport conveyor, I got it fixed under my house and contents insurance...I was out $500 but not the nearly $2k it would have been uninsured. Maybe US house insurance leaves the gap in the market? I don't know, I'm just guessing.
Old 4th July 2017
  #1034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
No, I'm not "judging the value of tools by the cost to manufacture". I'm simply noticing the futility of comparing the price of a set of components designed together into a product with other components. Especially if one is going to complain the product is expensive.

Bottom line? That's why I choose Macs for my clients. They make money using them. End of story.
It's great that you make money selling Macs, but it's important to note the futility of limiting choices to what was available in 2013, which is two Moore's epochs in the past now. Also over-egging the "designed together" pudding is a bit silly. AMD graphics cards and Intel processors are not "designed together".
Old 6th July 2017
  #1035
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Jones Sr View Post
I tinkered by connecting the RME UFX via USB. It can be switched into class compliant mode, where it worked straight off. I have no control panel in Linux of course, just internal channel level stuff that's in Mint. However the front panel of the UFX allows you to still manage those submixes so in a way you get around those issues if you're happy using the terribly designed RME oled window and buttons.

Obviously it would be nice to have the control panel and Totalmix in linux but there is a very aggressive dogma against it from the heads of RME, I suspect this is repeated in other manufacturers so I doubt we will see that any day soon. It's business as usual in Linux audio land you have to do your research and choose the audio interface you already know will work, not hope that the one you had will work, because it probably won't.

p.s. I wouldn't even bother trying the FFADO stuff for firewire interfaces it's just blood sweat and tears, and firewire is already obsolete everywhere else. If you wanna tinker even just try a cheap class compliant 2-4 channel interface on USB2.0 for the time being. Pity the Linux drivers on RME stopped at the 9652, it would be great to chuck a Raydat in on a modern PCIE build and have that all working with Totalmix. Again from RME something something obfuscation, grumpyness

This chicken egg situation will go on forever with linux audio I'm just tinkering, the day job requires MacOS or Windows.
Thanks, very interesting.
Old 7th July 2017
  #1036
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zephonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zephonic View Post
I may be wrong, but I seem to remember reading at the time that Intel didn't offer a quad-core successor for the CPU that was in the Mini quad. Everybody was mad when it was dropped, but apparently this wasn't really one of Apple's signature dickhead moves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Oh, it was. Apple claimed they couldn't fit the new CPUs into old Mini cases... And the entire tech world bought it. Apparently, it didn't occur to anybody that Apple could have designed slightly bigger enclosures - if size really was an issue. Personally, I think neutering the Mini was more of a marketing decision since Minis were/are extremely popular and very good value. They were, however, also cannibalising iMac and Mac Pro sales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Jones Sr View Post
It would take either being a complete idiot or incredible leaps of faith to believe that Apple nuked the quad mini for any reason other than it was working too well as an iMac/MBP/Mac Pro alternative. They simply were not making enough money off the headless model, it was close in cost to the roll-your-own hackintoshes without the headache of stuff being disabled by updates. It also meant that people with existing decent monitors could just upgrade to the latest Mini and be reasonably up to date with a quad i7 and 16GB ram, with little profit for Apple.

The enclosure size argument is comically dishonest when the 'container' of the Mini had already been tweaked probably 5-6 times in it's lifetime. It is part of what is giving me worries about the late 2018 Mac Pro. Why on earth is it taking till then to design a functional and powerful workstation box? - Oh wait, I forgot to expect more courage from Phil Schiller, so here we go Toblerone shaped magnetically levitated box in transparent aluminium with several optional eGPU's solely by AMD. Just what everyone's asking them to build.....

I don't remember anything about not being able to fit the newer CPU's into the existing Mini enclosure. However, it got me interested, so I dug up Intel's Haswell release scheme.

https://ark.intel.com/products/coden...aswell#@mobile

They did have a few mobile quads available at the time of the last MacMini's launch (October 2014), but it appears those CPU's all came with the older 4600 graphics. The HD5000 GPU's were only available on dual-cores.

I understand Apple couldn't very well have a flagship quad-core i7 with an inferior GPU. I mean, even the cheapest MacBookAirs shipped with HD5000. This strikes me as a sensible explanation.


That said, it is clear that Apple is not terribly interested in keeping the Mini relevant. By now they could have at least updated it to Skylake, but it has remained unchanged since late 2014.

rectification: MacMinis have Iris 5100 Graphics; only the base 1.4GHz has HD5000.

Last edited by zephonic; 7th July 2017 at 12:57 AM.. Reason: rectification
Old 7th July 2017
  #1037
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Jones Sr View Post
It would take either being a complete idiot or incredible leaps of faith to believe that Apple nuked the quad mini for any reason other than it was working too well as an iMac/MBP/Mac Pro alternative. They simply were not making enough money off the headless model, it was close in cost to the roll-your-own hackintoshes without the headache of stuff being disabled by updates. It also meant that people with existing decent monitors could just upgrade to the latest Mini and be reasonably up to date with a quad i7 and 16GB ram, with little profit for Apple.
I wouldn't mind paying a little more for a capable new quad-core Mini, even if that meant value-wise you get more for your money with the iMac. I'm willing to pay that "tax" to have a headless unit. At least having the choice would be nice. As it stands now I'm contemplating the 2013 Mac Pro quad-core at $2Gs just to have an audio workstation that is A) headless B) runs Logic and C) allows 32GB+ RAM.

It's really overkill for me and that money could be better spent on a Mac Mini fully loaded with RAM and comparable specs to an iMac. 32GB would the tipping point that would get me to buy. Otherwise I'd have to go with the Mac Pro because I can't wait indefinitely for a multi-billion dollar company to design a computer.
Old 8th July 2017
  #1038
Gear Head
 

I thought it was funny how everyone at the WWDC applauded over 18-cores. Yo Apple, Intel makes a 24-core Xeon and there are motherboards out there that can take 2 CPUs for a total of 48 cores if you really want to "...get really nutty" (to quote John Ternus at the keynote).

After this ridiculous iMac Pro announcement and recent issues with my trash can Mac Pro and the fact that all software I use is cross-compatible, I decided to build a PC with Windows 10 Pro installed. It's been a lot of fun selecting the chip, motherboard, memory, drives, power supply, water cooling, etc. to use. I just installed Avid HD PCIe card and so far so good.

We'll see how it goes. I might just be selling the trash can on eBay in the near future.

Last edited by TimmyMac; 8th July 2017 at 05:28 PM..
Old 9th July 2017
  #1039
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain caveman View Post
It's great that you make money selling Macs, but it's important to note the futility of limiting choices to what was available in 2013, which is two Moore's epochs in the past now. Also over-egging the "designed together" pudding is a bit silly. AMD graphics cards and Intel processors are not "designed together".
Not so fast. I don't sell Macs. I buy them and set them up for clients. Apple computers are technically designed whether you think so or not.
Old 9th July 2017
  #1040
Which Avid card? HD Native, HDX, TDM?

And what issues? I'm running trashcan with hdx and it's been flawless really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimmyMac View Post
I thought it was funny how everyone at the WWDC applauded over 18-cores. Yo Apple, Intel makes a 24-core Xeon and there are motherboards out there that can take 2 CPUs for a total of 48 cores if you really want to "...get really nutty" (to quote John Ternus at the keynote).

After this ridiculous iMac Pro announcement and recent issues with my trash can Mac Pro and the fact that all software I use is cross-compatible, I decided to build a PC with Windows 10 Pro installed. It's been a lot of fun selecting the chip, motherboard, memory, drives, power supply, water cooling, etc. to use. I just installed Avid HD PCIe card and so far so good.

We'll see how it goes. I might just be selling the trash can on eBay in the near future.
Old 9th July 2017
  #1041
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
Not so fast. I don't sell Macs. I buy them and set them up for clients. Apple computers are technically designed whether you think so or not.
So you make money from the sale of Mac hardware. Semantics. That's cool, I'm not going to bust your balls about it.

Computer components are all 'technically designed' to work together. Sometimes there's a compatibility or reliability hiccup here and there - of which Apple have had more than their fair share - but overall they are built to standards which are adhered to very accurately indeed.
Old 9th July 2017
  #1042
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain caveman View Post
So you make money from the sale of Mac hardware. Semantics. That's cool, I'm not going to bust your balls about it.

Computer components are all 'technically designed' to work together. Sometimes there's a compatibility or reliability hiccup here and there - of which Apple have had more than their fair share - but overall they are built to standards which are adhered to very accurately indeed.
No, I don't make any money from Mac hardware. I make money from pure services, which may include buying hardware or fixing hardware, but there is no hardware to be seen on my invoices as there are other suppliers for that.

You must be a new to computers if you think all components always will work equally well in all real time computing scenarios. There are standards, but they don't work as you seem to think. Wishful thinking is not reality.
Old 10th July 2017
  #1043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
No, I don't make any money from Mac hardware. I make money from pure services, which may include buying hardware or fixing hardware, but there is no hardware to be seen on my invoices as there are other suppliers for that.

You must be a new to computers if you think all components always will work equally well in all real time computing scenarios. There are standards, but they don't work as you seem to think. Wishful thinking is not reality.
Services that include Macs. You've already said that you buy Macs for your clients. You must think that the rest of the world is comprised of sub humans if you think that this reply - with that having being said, I do appreciate the ostensible honesty - somehow obviates the former statement.

You don't happen to practice NLP, do you? I certainly did not say what you claimed I believe, whether or not you have rearranged reality to suit your own beliefs and/or desires. There were only a few words to digest - maybe this is too complicated for you? If you are struggling with remember a few words of written language, it's no wonder you are an imbecile when it comes to technical matters.

Do you see that rudeness begets rudeness?
Old 10th July 2017
  #1044
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain caveman View Post
So you make money from the sale of Mac hardware. Semantics. That's cool, I'm not going to bust your balls about it.

Computer components are all 'technically designed' to work together. Sometimes there's a compatibility or reliability hiccup here and there - of which Apple have had more than their fair share - but overall they are built to standards which are adhered to very accurately indeed.
The point is, when you buy a particular Mac model, you get a known set of components that can be tested and qualified by a 3rd party software vendor. If someone has an issue, they can source the exact same machine to run tests on.

That's near impossible to do with PCs - which is why you have dedicated audio suppliers who do exactly the same thing on a smaller scale (buy, test and supply known working configs) or you restrict approval to a specific set of known good models (in the case of laptops).

It's not a question of what is good hardware or not, it's a question of what is known to work together and with the software in question. It's harder to test when the options are simply limitless.
Old 10th July 2017
  #1045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
The point is, when you buy a particular Mac model, you get a known set of components that can be tested and qualified by a 3rd party software vendor. If someone has an issue, they can source the exact same machine to run tests on.

That's near impossible to do with PCs - which is why you have dedicated audio suppliers who do exactly the same thing on a smaller scale (buy, test and supply known working configs) or you restrict approval to a specific set of known good models (in the case of laptops).

It's not a question of what is good hardware or not, it's a question of what is known to work together and with the software in question. It's harder to test when the options are simply limitless.
I do see what you are saying, but I disagree that Apple do the same thing as dedicated DAW builders do, Apple are making general purpose computers. Apple are doing the same thing Dell or HP are. Dedicated DAW builders are building systems with a known, ultra-compatible list of components, with online, expert support, that perform better than Apple hardware for a fraction of the cost - for non-base models.

When these are 1/3 or less than 1/2 of the price, you can buy two and still save projected time and money. So when an Apple user is searching around for a replacement mid-2014 iMac Retina 27", the PC user could be back up and running within minutes.

Or you can buy one and stick the savings into p2p lending for safe, secure returns. With the magic of compound interest, you can have an eternal computer for the savings involved in a couple of upgrade iterations.

The software in question is a good point though. If you are tied to Logic then Mac is your only option.
Old 10th July 2017
  #1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain caveman View Post
I do see what you are saying, but I disagree that Apple do the same thing as dedicated DAW builders do, Apple are making general purpose computers. Apple are doing the same thing Dell or HP are. Dedicated DAW builders are building systems with a known, ultra-compatible list of components, with online, expert support, that perform better than Apple hardware for a fraction of the cost - for non-base models.
Well, yes and no.

Yes Apple make general purpose computers that also make very good media computers. The components are "ultracompatible" because the software is tested to them and made to be compatible. Yes, it's the same thing Dell and HP do; which is why models from those companies are also often part of the Pro Tools "qualified computers" lists.

I thought it was generally understood that dedicated DAW builds from specialists weren't THAT much cheaper than off the shelf Macs?

I haven't got time to do detailed research, but I found:

MPS 7K-15

at $2700, versus a roughly equivalent MBP for $3500 over here (when I go through a specialist retailer, I could get about 10% off that too).

Yes - the PC has an internal 1TB audio drive, plus external DVD writer, etc. I'm not denying it's better value. But it's not 1/2 or 1/3 price. I'm sure there are people that offer better deals, and so on. But let's support statements with proof or keep things more general?

Quote:
Originally Posted by captain caveman View Post
When these are 1/3 or less than 1/2 of the price, you can buy two and still save projected time and money. So when an Apple user is searching around for a replacement mid-2014 iMac Retina 27", the PC user could be back up and running within minutes.
a) I think I've just proved that that sort of pricing is slightly fantastical. Maybe you can build your own for 1/2 price.

b) does anyone, really, look at the price difference, think "great - I'll get two!" and then stick one on the shelf just in case? Of course not - they think "great - I'll save money!". Thus if worst case happens and there's a hardware failure, they're potentially in the same position. Possibly better off - they might just be able to buy the identical motherboard, video card or whatever cheaply and quickly - or they might be worse off, because it's relatively easy to get a known working Mac either new or 2nd hand quickly in most areas (next day delivery in some cases).

Quote:
Originally Posted by captain caveman View Post
Or you can buy one and stick the savings into p2p lending for safe, secure returns. With the magic of compound interest, you can have an eternal computer for the savings involved in a couple of upgrade iterations.
Again true, again I've never met anyone who thinks like this. "Saving money" is the one aspect that holds true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by captain caveman View Post
The software in question is a good point though. If you are tied to Logic then Mac is your only option.
Only guaranteed reliable option, sure.
Old 10th July 2017
  #1047
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Which Avid card? HD Native, HDX, TDM?

And what issues? I'm running trashcan with hdx and it's been flawless really.
I use the thunderbolt HD native box with the trashcan. I began experiencing a lot of UI issues such as scrolling would hang and typing would be extremely slow (like press a key and wait 3 seconds for the letter to appear). Then playback in Pro Tools started acting funny. The counters would freeze and then lag behind the playhead. Also the machine would lock up and only restart once I removed all peripherals. Monitor would also go out randomly. I think I finally have things working after reinstalling the whole OS and only installing PT, nothing else. Fingers crossed.
Old 10th July 2017
  #1048
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimmyMac View Post
I use the thunderbolt HD native box with the trashcan. I began experiencing a lot of UI issues such as scrolling would hang and typing would be extremely slow (like press a key and wait 3 seconds for the letter to appear). Then playback in Pro Tools started acting funny. The counters would freeze and then lag behind the playhead. Also the machine would lock up and only restart once I removed all peripherals. Monitor would also go out randomly. I think I finally have things working after reinstalling the whole OS and only installing PT, nothing else. Fingers crossed.
Interesting. I've never used the TB Native - my HD native card works fine on laptop in a Sonnet chassis, the HDX is fine also in a sonnet rackmount. Sometiems metering is a little laggy, but I understand that's an El Cap thing and is fixed under sierra; I've just not had the inclination to update yet!

PT playback is sharp, I've had occasional crashes but very rarely, and I'm pretty sure plugin related.

Good to hear it's coming good for you. Mine was also a clean install...
Old 10th July 2017
  #1049
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain caveman View Post
I certainly did not say what you claimed I believe, whether or not you have rearranged reality to suit your own beliefs and/or desires.
This is what you wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain caveman View Post
It's great that you make money selling Macs,
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain caveman View Post
Services that include Macs. You've already said that you buy Macs for your clients. You must think that the rest of the world is comprised of sub humans if you think that this reply - with that having being said, I do appreciate the ostensible honesty - somehow obviates the former statement.

You don't happen to practice NLP, do you? I certainly did not say what you claimed I believe, whether or not you have rearranged reality to suit your own beliefs and/or desires. There were only a few words to digest - maybe this is too complicated for you? If you are struggling with remember a few words of written language, it's no wonder you are an imbecile when it comes to technical matters.

Do you see that rudeness begets rudeness?
First of all, whether I sell Mac hardware or not is totally irrelevant to this discussion. But as I do not I'm simply correcting you. I don't think that you're rude at all. As long as you're within the subject of this discussion. As you don't base your sentiments on my displayed lack of knowledge I'd say you're not relevant even with these statements. I based my statements on your, in my eyes, expressed naive views on computer components.

It'd be better if we could disagree or agree on the technical matters instead of catering for your uncalled for fantasies on what I do for making money. Agreed?
Old 10th July 2017
  #1050
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain caveman View Post
Dedicated DAW builders are building systems with a known, ultra-compatible list of components, with online, expert support, that perform better than Apple hardware for a fraction of the cost - for non-base models.
I do agree that Dedicated DAW builders are very useful outfits. At the same time I know very few producers/musicians, using Macs, having more than minor hardware issues, unless they drop stuff on the floor or spill things into equipment. Most of the problems I solve for clients are OS/software based, and if hardware mostly concerns upgrades. I've offered tested builds a few times and the interest have been absent. It would seem that people do trust Apple hardware, even though they've built some lesser machines. The cost for buying a machine is very negligible for most clients I have, who tend to look at TOC rather than upfront costs. Most seem to use machines for about three years before they get a new one. A few get second machines.
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