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Tim Cook on Mac Desktop commitment Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 6th January 2017
  #61
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claborn View Post
macOS, no. earlier versions of OSX, maybe. windows10 runs better on my 2011 macbook pro than Sierra does.
I have absolutely zero issues on Sierra. Both on older MBPs and newer.
Old 6th January 2017
  #62
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Chucho's Avatar
 

That fact that I was bored by the time I got to 'CPU cooler' is why I love macs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kangking View Post
New computer build I just came up with, called the "Mac Pro Killer".

Link:

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/kangki...d/#view=bDBvK8

Description:
Monster 10 core pc under $4,000 designed to destroy the 6 core mac pro.


Part List:


CPU

Intel Core i7-6950X 3.0GHz 10-Core Processor
$1579.79


CPU Cooler

Corsair H115i 104.7 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler
$110.04


Motherboard

Gigabyte GA-X99P-SLI ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard
$236.88


Memory

Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4-3000 Memory
$399.99


Storage

Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive
$164.99

Western Digital BLACK SERIES 4TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive
$196.99


Video Card

EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Superclocked Gaming ACX 3.0 Video Card
$619.99


Case

Cooler Master Storm Stryker (White) ATX Full Tower Case
$153.98


Power Supply

Corsair 1000W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply
$195.49


Optical Drive

LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer
$46.88


Operating System

Microsoft Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit
$129.77


Total: $3834.79
Old 7th January 2017
  #63
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucerothwell View Post
Because it is based on Unix, I'd opine a much more stable and less-attacked OS.

Without that, you just have hardware components in a case.
The main attraction with Macs and its OS is the whole experience. This is what many that don't go Mac just can't understand. While Apple certainly are abusing their Pro users since some time —and for no good reasons at that as far as we know — and a DAW typically works the same on both platforms, those of us that hack our music machines feel we have a high degree of production control over them with the mac OSes. I'm in control, much because of how Unix works.

I feel that with Windows 10 Microsoft as finally made it clear that the OS does not belong to its users. They control the users to an extent that I as a Mac user never can accept that Apple would do. Even as an abused Apple customer with what there is, it's abuse I can take. For now. If Apple doesn't continue to give the Mac line some love, then much hope would be lost. Hackintoshes works for me, but more focus on Pros need to happen as well. Who do Apple think makes all the content other Mac users enjoy via Apple products? Wake up, Apple!
Old 7th January 2017
  #64
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Mike O's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_Jezz View Post
Interesting article; thanks.
Microsoft and Qualcomm have publicly announced full Win 10 on ARM, although they have not stated or even implied a move away from Intel.

Most analysts seems to believe they will use the ARM chip in a "Surface Phone", tablets to compete with iPad pros and other as yet not released products. The MS implementation will run Win32 apps as well. MS will keep Intel for desktop; using Intel chips where they make the most sense.

MS seems to have adopted ARM for "mobile" type devices for many of the same reasons stated in the referenced article about Apple (low power consumption, size, cell support, etc.).

The speculation in the article regarding Apple moving to ARM for desktops (MacPros) appears to me to more likely support the idea that Apple believes some version of the iMac is what people want and need (and they can sell). The bigger the cloud, the more "terminals" we need. Given high iMac sales is this (ARM/iMac) what Mr. Cook sees for the future? Who knows?

Why not ARM for Apple beyond what they use it for now? They do like vertical integration. It can be argued that Intel's being late with Kaby Lake impacted both Apple and MS/Windows based product schedules. This may have hurt Apple more that MS as MS is just starting starting to move any real numbers of devices. Not having having the Kaby Lake processors MAY have cost Apple an enormous loss of good will (see spec and reaction to MacBook Pro).

If you as a company want/need to be perceived as the company that brings innovation, owning the real innovator might be a really good plan. It's the only way to ensure that you have an opportunity to present that technology to the public first.

It looks to me like the ARM race has just begun (pun intended).
Old 7th January 2017
  #66
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by conleec View Post
Well, mildly but not very interesting as this likely happens because of a pre-existing clause in Tim's contract where this is regulated. Apple is making bigger profits than many other actors in the markets. So not sensational and nothing to worry about unless if you own Apple stock and that should be in the short term.

What does have me worried still, is the missing updated Mac Pro. If they can't make it then why not help us build our own? Or is that what Apple is doing already?
Old 7th January 2017
  #67
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
What does have me worried still, is the missing updated Mac Pro. If they can't make it then why not help us build our own? Or is that what Apple is doing already?
Nah, don't worry. Intel has had a monopoly and been strong arming the industry. Apple are just not going to give Intel $3k per chip. They are either gonna go AMD or negotiate lower costs by threatening going AMD, and pocket themselves at least $1-$2k extra per sale either way. Also, AMD and Nvidia are both improving GPUs at a crazy rate, opening a new world of tech that's coming, and I'm sure Cook has known / had the roll out planned for years. Its not apple's engineers holding things up, almost certainly. I'm sure the new models are signed off and ready to be mass produced but they are waiting on the parts, which are currently being made.
Old 7th January 2017
  #68
Brb
Gear Addict
 
Brb's Avatar
 

I tried goin to windows 10... but man that automatic updating? Possibly breaking compatibility of my apps And plug ins on my system? No thanks... went right back to my trusty old Mac
Old 7th January 2017
  #69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brb View Post
I tried goin to windows 10... but man that automatic updating? Possibly breaking compatibility of my apps And plug ins on my system? No thanks... went right back to my trusty old Mac
you can turn off automatic updating almost all the way. there would be no app updates once you do. it would only be critical security updates (to keep computer virus free)
Old 7th January 2017
  #70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitsogood View Post
For now I tend to agree. I simply hate windows. I just feel lots have changed for the worse since Snow Leopard. its not as snappy as it was for audio, and I have a beast of a machine. hopefully I won't have to stop using it ever...
during the snow leopard era. mac was easily the best operating system. to me that was the definition of a great operating system, and when they were at the top of their game. especially for audio or multimedia. everything ran SMOOTH. yes it has gone downhill. When they killed final cut I knew something was wrong. I pretty much built a hackintosh (never could afford a real mac) exclusively to use Final Cut. Then they upgraded to the most horrible Editing program and I don't care how many updates they made, its still garbage!

Obviously because they don't have Steve Jobs. He pretty much WAS Apple. The rest of the people only helped his vision become reality. Nobody can fill those shoes. He was the best contribution to personal computers ever. Without him who knows what would have happened. The investors and advisers always ruin companys because they want to play it safe and market the product a certain way. Thats not how you innovate and stay cutting edge. Even in the Steve Jobs movie you'd see all the rich businessmen with horrible creative direction in the board room at Apple ruining his vision. Those guys are probably running the company now with Tim Cook, so no wonder its gotten a lot worse. Too bad!

Yes windows was never as good as mac for anything creative. But now. The mac (pro) is selling us the same outdated hardware at inflated prices. I can buy the same hardware and run it on windows for a lot less. I'll be damned if i get jacked like that just to run an operating system. Same reason I never upgraded my PT11HD bundle. Avid was trying to jack us with that subcription. I don't care what company it is. And i use pro tools Every day! Also support accross windows and mac has gotten much better. Pretty much anything creative is both windows and mac compatible, so its not like you really need mac exclusively for anything. That might be a really rare case, but there's ALWAYS an alternative these days. Mac operating system, It's nicer, I'll give it that. But windows has improved a lot to where the difference is hard to notice, try windows 10 its really good. Which makes me choose price and performance over slightly more polished os.
Old 7th January 2017
  #71
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoke View Post


But I still do not want to make music on it. It feels cold and damp. Rigid. No way in hell I would use that to actually get into a groove.
all that is in your head
Old 7th January 2017
  #72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucho View Post
That fact that I was bored by the time I got to 'CPU cooler' is why I love macs.
all macs have a cpu cooler as well.
Old 7th January 2017
  #73
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kangking View Post
all macs have a cpu cooler as well.
If Apple got you to specify which CPU cooler you wanted, they'd probably sell a lot fewer.

I've built PCs and, frankly, there are many things I'd prefer to do than agonise over fans and thermal paste.
Old 7th January 2017
  #74
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jlaws's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZangTumblyTumble View Post
If Apple got you to specify which CPU cooler you wanted, they'd probably sell a lot fewer.

I've built PCs and, frankly, there are many things I'd prefer to do than agonise over fans and thermal paste.
It's not like you can't buy pre assembled PCs...that's part of the beauty of them, lots of options.
Old 7th January 2017
  #75
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoke View Post


But I still do not want to make music on it. It feels cold and damp. Rigid. No way in hell I would use that to actually get into a groove.
Don't you make music inside a Daw or other software? I don' t understand why everyone here obsesses over mac os v. Windows - the OS is completely irrelevant once your system is up and running and working. Wether you're using Reaper or Pro Tools or Cubase in mac or windows, it's the exact same software! I m not continuously diving into my OS on a daily basis- i fire up my computer and use my DAW. What are you guys doing that necessitates so much thought over the OS , all of which have basically all the same functions with different names and some minor differences.
Old 7th January 2017
  #76
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by kangking View Post
all that is in your head
it is in my head. But thats what matters isn't it?

You may be right too Reverb. You guys are probably right. I don't know. Lets see what happens. If I have the option I will continue to use Mac OS, if not, I will move on.

I still stand by the importance of feeling comfortable and in sync with what you are using, for whatever reason you connect with it.
Old 7th January 2017
  #77
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pulsar modular's Avatar
 

Gartner is forecasting that this is the year that shipment of devices running Apple's iOS and macOS will outnumber those running Windows

Let's see how spreadsheet nerd Tim Cook plans to keep that up. With the Mac platform suffering from long neglect, they are only a fashion misstep away from a huge contraction..perhaps they'll be the new Nokia. It seems most of what they do now is lightweight...and gimmicky. Fluff. No more Thunderbolt Displays, but apparently they consider a 300 page vanity project book worthwhile. The macOS is the heir to the big workstation OSs like Solaris and IRIX. It deserves much more. They should spin it off if they only want to focus on gadgets.
Old 7th January 2017
  #78
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lestermagneto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZangTumblyTumble View Post
If Apple got you to specify which CPU cooler you wanted, they'd probably sell a lot fewer.

I've built PCs and, frankly, there are many things I'd prefer to do than agonise over fans and thermal paste.
interesting point.... I have 2 macpro's (2009/2012 respectfully I think)... since the units are getting a little up there in age, (I do take them apart once or twice a year for cleaning/reseating etc), is there a third party solution you would recommend as a cooling unit? (preferably one not too loud )...

such as either a usb fan, a pci card device, something I can attach to a lead inside etc? I use SMC fan control at times, (especially with larger sessions and video), as the system seems to run hot at the end of the day (but could be just perception bias!)
Old 8th January 2017
  #79
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by kangking View Post
Obviously because they don't have Steve Jobs. He pretty much WAS Apple. The rest of the people only helped his vision become reality. Nobody can fill those shoes. He was the best contribution to personal computers ever. Without him who knows what would have happened.
Yes, he's gone now and Apple wouldn't have become the same company without him, but there are people at Apple with visions that are building on his legacy.
There's not only one person in this world that can envision what we need before we know it and Steve wasn't alone anyway. Do this kind of people work at Apple still? I think that quite a few do. Apple was built as the eternal startup. If they can maintain the mind sets associated with that, then this is still only the beginning in a young industry that basically have kept changing everything.

Your whole mind set is wrong. Steve, was immensely important for the history of computing, movies and related areas, but with him gone a new chapter has begun. Other possibilities will open up if you have the right mind set. Apple has that though admittedly they also have some problems or we would have also a Mac Pro since some time. Apple have often set the vision before the release date though. It's when they deviate from that they go wrong. They do need to hear when they can as Apple isn't perfect. It's still a pretty damn good company though if comparing.

Have Apple failed us? Yes, but they have also done that in the past. They'll come around this time again. Or else…

What's the alternatives anyway? Windows 10?
I find Linux much more interesting for music production. Linux has been growing in more areas than most people can comprehend.
Old 8th January 2017
  #80
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
Yes, he's gone now and Apple wouldn't have become the same company without him, but there are people at Apple with visions that are building on his legacy...
They're definitely building on his legacy... by building watches and phones and accessories and other ecosystem enhancing devices and making tons of cash in the process.

I'm still hopeful that there's a team in a room at Cupertino working on an in-house chip that will wow everyone (only good reason I can think of for 3 years of MPro delays), but I don't think their existence is as likely as a decision from on high to transition away from building for users that need more than a top of the line iMac. The money just isn't there, at least short-term, and the old argument (that power users / evangelists enhanced the brand) probably isn't particularly convincing. Not when the other properties are printing money.
Old 8th January 2017
  #81
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latweek's Avatar
 

Elvis has left the building, and Tim is "innovating" in his own way, which is accounting. It would be quite easy to see how Steve wanted to choose a curator of his museum, more than a new visionary. Although, for many Apple fans, it is hard to let go while Apple becomes the opposite of what it once was.

The good news for Apple disciples is they are *free*, to wade out in the world of technology options, features, operating systems, and make their own decisions. It's all out there, find your own way as an individual and don't look back. That's What Steve Jobs Would Do.
Old 8th January 2017
  #82
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lowkey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alndln View Post
Then again he thinks the iMac is the "best desktop in the world".
Where did you get that quote from? He said the iMac is "the best desktop we have ever made".
Old 8th January 2017
  #83
Lives for gear
 
lowkey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kangking View Post
New computer build I just came up with, called the "Mac Pro Killer".

Link:

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/kangki...d/#view=bDBvK8

Description:
Monster 10 core pc under $4,000 designed to destroy the 6 core mac pro.


Part List:


CPU

Intel Core i7-6950X 3.0GHz 10-Core Processor
$1579.79


CPU Cooler

Corsair H115i 104.7 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler
$110.04


Motherboard

Gigabyte GA-X99P-SLI ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard
$236.88


Memory

Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4-3000 Memory
$399.99


Storage

Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive
$164.99

Western Digital BLACK SERIES 4TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive
$196.99


Video Card

EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Superclocked Gaming ACX 3.0 Video Card
$619.99


Case

Cooler Master Storm Stryker (White) ATX Full Tower Case
$153.98


Power Supply

Corsair 1000W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply
$195.49


Optical Drive

LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer
$46.88


Operating System

Microsoft Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit
$129.77


Total: $3834.79
What's your charge out rate to research, order, build and test the machine?

Mine is $190/hr, so I'd need to factor that into the cost.
How long would it take to source, build and get the machine up an running?
Old 8th January 2017
  #84
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pulsar modular's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by latweek View Post
Elvis has left the building, and Tim is "innovating" in his own way, which is accounting. It would be quite easy to see how Steve wanted to choose a curator of his museum, more than a new visionary. Although, for many Apple fans, it is hard to let go while Apple becomes the opposite of what it once was.

The good news for Apple disciples is they are *free*, to wade out in the world of technology options, features, operating systems, and make their own decisions. It's all out there, find your own way as an individual and don't look back. That's What Steve Jobs Would Do.
Free to choose what OS? Sir, the Mercedes S-Class is no longer available but we have this gold plated Dodge Viper for you. Perfect fit.
Old 8th January 2017
  #85
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
What's your charge out rate to research, order, build and test the machine?

Mine is $190/hr, so I'd need to factor that into the cost.
How long would it take to source, build and get the machine up an running?
This. I have never built a PC. And i got burnt by a mac clone once in the 90s. The cost of my own time and the minimal risk and the confidence of knowing it will work... Are why i am this close to buying a 6 core nMP. 3 year warranty from a reseller also important.

By the way, I read on macrumours that MP production is being moved to Asia. That could explain some delay-presuming there is a usb-c trashcan coming...
Old 8th January 2017
  #86
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoughlan View Post
The money just isn't there, at least short-term, and the old argument (that power users / evangelists enhanced the brand) probably isn't particularly convincing. Not when the other properties are printing money.
With around 4 billion in profits per year from computers alone, you're saying that Macbook Pros can be built and sold, but not Mac Pros. Because "there's no money in it"? So the companies that make WAY less profits than Apple on computers stay in the desktop business because…? I think you're not making sense.

I can see that. I mean Apple's handling of the Mac Pro also doesn't make sense so our thoughts on it all may not make sense either. I mean they built a revolutionary desktop, no matter what some of us may have wanted. Then they let it perish.

Last edited by Mikael B; 10th January 2017 at 10:23 AM..
Old 8th January 2017
  #87
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
What's your charge out rate to research, order, build and test the machine?

Mine is $190/hr, so I'd need to factor that into the cost.
How long would it take to source, build and get the machine up an running?
Building a hackintosh can take as little as 4 hours, including ordering, picking up and building it. Picking the parts I don't think counts as there must be few here arguing they must be paid to check out new gear.

Obviously, you have a good point as a substantial amount of producers lack the knowledge to even find a good recipe for a great music machine, even more so for building it.
Engineers are more likely to maybe see this as less of an obstacle.

Which is why Music Producers, Studios and so on could be quite willing to plunk down some hefty number of money for the Mac Pro of their dreams. If Apple had built it…
Old 8th January 2017
  #88
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mc_deli View Post
i am this close to buying a 6 core nMP. 3 year warranty from a reseller also important.
I could be there too if prices were more fitting. One major reason for the popularity of Apple hardware is that their boxes tend to keep on humming 24/7. That's worth a lot.
Old 8th January 2017
  #89
Lives for gear
 
latweek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pulsar modular View Post
Free to choose what OS? Sir, the Mercedes S-Class is no longer available but we have this gold plated Dodge Viper for you. Perfect fit.
That analogy (o god not the cars again, its 2017), doesn't hold just because one isn't willing to get up to speed on many OS options, or a basic hackintosh that has had straightforward build instructions on TonyMac for about 10 years running - if that's what you meant by a Dodge Viper (sorry if I misunderstood your point on that model!)

Give it a shot - I've personally done it and can assure you that options are viable. Many entrenched die hard PT users are now converted to other DAW platforms on other OSes daily, people who once swore by their MAC/PT solution. It works, and I've had mine without issues since 2010. 7 years of no downtime.

It is a personal CHOICE to keep a disfunctional or irrational attachment, but I do agree in that if one views the experience through the lens of a passive consumer, the days of Apple providing a state of the art, turnkey creative solution are gone.

Editing to add one more point: I am not a technology fetishist, rather a agnostic musician. I think there is a problem with getting attached to gear in a way that is counterproductive to the actual work. My DAW, the box and OS it is in, and the DACs should be seen and not heard. Just give me the most power, stability, and features whatever the brand is. The rest is really up to me to get on with banging keys and tweaking sounds so that I can make some art that has feeling without getting tied to any particular roadmap, company, product, workflow or camp.
Old 8th January 2017
  #90
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
With 4 billion profits from computers alone, you're saying that Macbook Pros can be built and sold, but not Mac Pros. Because "there's no money in it"? So the companies that make WAY less profits than Apple on computers stay in the desktop business because…? I think you're not making sense.
I didn't say they were killing the desktop. Read carefully. I think they'll be perfectly happy to ship out iMacs and neutered Mac Minis for the end of time. Minimal R&D and excellent margins on that glass I'm sure.

But the costs involved in making a computer include R&D and then cost of manufacturing. The R&D and manufacturing cost of supercomputer is high. Possibly even higher than they can recoup. Definitely not the most efficient way to allocate resources when everything else is equal.

No company operates without making a profit. The question is whether companies are willing to build loss leaders, like a Mac Pro, in the name of strengthening the brand or pushing computers forward.

Bottom line: it makes more "cents" to devote resources to iMacs and Mac Minis and tablets than it does to Mac Pro. Perhaps under Steve Jobs this didn't really matter. Under Tim Cook it appears to.
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