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Tim Cook on Mac Desktop commitment Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 31st March 2017
  #631
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Jones Sr View Post

If you teleported back to 2012 and asked what people were actually wanting in a new Mac Pro…
This seriously shows you're not familiar with Apple concepts. Like it or not, Apple have never been about building machines that "people want". Apple as, since Job's return anyway, have been and are about building the computers people don't know they want until they exist. Which can be a risky concept of course. Sometimes also those products can bomb, especially if Apple refuse to keep them updated.

At any rate, I feel if Apple remade the computer division as "Apple Computer" again, yet kept cooperating with the mother company we could see some serious hardware also for professionals.

Personally, I think the desktop computer will disappear in a few years, maybe a decade. Because face it, it's not that box you want, it's the computer power.
Old 31st March 2017
  #632
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
That's odd. All Apple users I know (plenty) just spit out product, day out and day in. Some of them do this on 5 year old computers, some on new ones, including also a few hackintoshes.
The irony in all of this is that in 99% of cases that's exactly what PC users and Mac users do - simply get work done on what the system they have. How many people are actually crippled an unable to work because of their system... we blow these things way out of proportion.

A touchbar is a pretty lame compared to touchscreen, but it doesn't render the product useless. Same goes with the specs, they're overpriced, but it is what it is and it's not like the budget conscious don't have options, buying used etc.. Worst case is that Apple abandons making pro machines, which I think is unlikely, despite how slow they are. Even there, it takes about 10 minutes for any computer literate person to use a different operating system and most software, DAWs, video editing etc., tools are all basically variations of the same core functions.
Old 31st March 2017
  #633
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by login View Post
Well pretty much what happens when accountants take over engineers in a company.

If Apple gives up the Mac Pro soon it is the end of the road for that branch of products.

Sadly I still know people that are afraid of leving apple behind and they are going to be milked to their bones.

Most people I know in businesses that use Apple products make a lot of money. They pay for new machines, because they want them. Oh, the horror…
Old 31st March 2017
  #634
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverb View Post
…it takes about 10 minutes for any computer literate person to use a different operating system and most software, DAWs, video editing etc., tools are all basically variations of the same core functions.
Well, that limits the scope of "computer literate" persons quite a bit. Even people extremely skilled with an application on both platforms may still trip up on some fine detail stuff like OS integration. At least for a while.

I know I can do it, but I have many clients that most would consider as "computer literate" which would at least consider a migration as a week to a few months endeavour. Motivation helps of course.

Sometimes tool migration is a very healthy move.
Old 31st March 2017
  #635
qwe
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
Personally, I think the desktop computer will disappear in a few years, maybe a decade. Because face it, it's not that box you want, it's the computer power.
In favour of what?
Old 31st March 2017
  #636
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwe View Post
In favour of what?
probably something that fits in your pocket.
Old 31st March 2017
  #637
Lives for gear
 
Poinzy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
Personally, I think the desktop computer will disappear in a few years, maybe a decade. Because face it, it's not that box you want, it's the computer power.
I should forward this to my recording engineer buddy. "I'm sure Sequoia for iOS is going to be the next big thing, Dave."

Yeah, I can really imagine myself editing audio tracks with a tiny mobile device, hunched over my desk. I'll just use earbuds instead of desktop monitors, too. Apple's really shown me the light.

The most capable computer is always going to be a desktop, which, unlike a mobile device, is extremely easy to modify and upgrade.
Old 31st March 2017
  #638
qwe
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poinzy View Post
I should forward this to my recording engineer buddy. "I'm sure Sequoia for iOS is going to be the next big thing, Dave."

Yeah, I can really imagine myself editing audio tracks with a tiny mobile device, hunched over my desk. I'll just use earbuds instead of desktop monitors, too. Apple's really shown me the light.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Poinzy View Post
The most capable computer is always going to be a desktop, which, unlike a mobile device, is extremely easy to modify and upgrade.
Massive problems in terms of power consumption and heat dissipation too.

Unless most processing is offloaded to "the cloud." Let me know when that works for real-time applications...!
Old 31st March 2017
  #639
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Poinzy's Avatar
 

I don't mean to come down too hard on this.

I think mobile devices are tech wonders, and I'm certainly pleased that I can produce audio files that will play on people's iPhones. It's just that mobile devices can't do everything.
Old 31st March 2017
  #640
qwe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poinzy View Post
I don't mean to come down too hard on this.

I think mobile devices are tech wonders, and I'm certainly pleased that I can produce audio files that will play on people's iPhones. It's just that mobile devices can't do everything.
Mobile devices are fantastic to have. They just, as you say, aren't high-end computing.
Old 31st March 2017
  #641
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PatrickFaith's Avatar
 

We are almost 3 months after that statement with no info. Also in the post forum someone was asking about upgrading their old Mac, and I went over for my two trash cans how I had to add the fan programs for long running jobs and how loud the trash can is when the fan is run at sufficient levels so the trash can doesn't fail. But I was thinking apple still hasn't owned up on this issue, with a simple update the fans would run at a proper temp, but they then would be loud. So even today apples mindset is to screw over all Mac Pro trash can owners because they don't want to be embarrassed by the loud trash can - this to me qualifies the apple mindset more then anything and the reason why i never recommend macs to high performance/long-running-jobs.
Old 31st March 2017
  #642
qwe
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Jones Sr View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
This seriously shows you're not familiar with Apple concepts. Like it or not, Apple have never been about building machines that "people want". Apple as, since Job's return anyway, have been and are about building the computers people don't know they want until they exist.
You say this as though the end user is some kind of idiot who has to wait until Apple supposedly invent a new genre of product (not sure they actually ever did this).
Alan Kay said "the best way to predict the future is to invent it." Well, at least he had some right to say that.
Old 31st March 2017
  #643
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login's Avatar
Apple is going to abandon the Pro market, all the signs are clear. Doesn't matter if people actually want to buy Apple computers if they don't actually release something for that market.
Old 31st March 2017
  #644
Gear Nut
 

Just this week they fired out a memo to the retail stores effectively firing all of the Business managers and offering them reduced pay regular jobs. Apple doesn't want your business' business.
Old 31st March 2017
  #645
Gear Addict
 
ZFire's Avatar
 

Jobs was always oriented to producing computers as consumer appliances, so that part is not new to apple. If memory serves me, the original Mac II with its expandable card slots etc. was only produced after Jobs had temporarily left Apple.

I think Apple's current mistake is in applying the same form-over-function ethos of smart phones to their Mac lineup, where there is a significant portion of users that value things such as , ahem, "ports".
Old 1st April 2017
  #646
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Jones Sr View Post
You say this as though the end user is some kind of idiot who has to wait until Apple supposedly invent a new genre of product (not sure they actually ever did this).
No, that's all in your head. Don't make up what's in my head.

What I described is what Apple has been computer design wise, more or less, since Steve Jobs returned (and still is despite no Steve) whether you, me and others like this or not. The simple fact is that if a company build computers to user specification they might want something else when you finally have a great product. This doesn't mean important consumer-oriented divisions of Apple won't listen to users. The design departments just don't build machines based on wishes. If they did we'd have quite different machines now. I'm sure they do user research, but that's something else.

I don't know why the excellent quadcore Mini disappeared, but neither do you. I don't believe it cannibalised sales. Of what? CPU power is not the only thing you base computer buying decisions on.

I maintain you don't understand Apple, which I base on what you write here. I don't claim I always fully understand their decisions, certainly not what they're (not) doing for desktops since 2013. But I feel pretty confident that anyone believing only wishing for what exists already will guide Apple's design hand shouldn't feel so cocky.

I'm not saying at all Apple don't care about the markets. But they have widened their user base considerably and we creative professionals or even creative amateurs are not the core of the user base any more.

If Apple Computer existed as its own company this would still be true most likely, but I think creative types would get better service then. We're building also for active consumers on the Apple platform, so why so little love?
Old 1st April 2017
  #647
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by login View Post
Apple is going to abandon the Pro market, all the signs are clear. Doesn't matter if people actually want to buy Apple computers if they don't actually release something for that market.
Sales figures indicate this doesn't influence that much, even if I agree it should.

Recent and long standing inaction would indicate you're right. But you don't add much here to make this statement any more true than any other future ideas about Apple spoken by outsiders.

The simple truth is, you don't know much about this and nor do most of us. Which is why it's so painful if Apple computers are indeed what you want to use.
Old 1st April 2017
  #648
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwe View Post
In favour of what?

Powerful computing in another format obviously. The needs don't go away but they may be evolving and better served with new better products. If Apple aren't working on new formats they'd be pretty daft. What will see the day? I don't know.
Old 1st April 2017
  #649
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poinzy View Post
I should forward this to my recording engineer buddy. "I'm sure Sequoia for iOS is going to be the next big thing, Dave."

Yeah, I can really imagine myself editing audio tracks with a tiny mobile device, hunched over my desk. I'll just use earbuds instead of desktop monitors, too. Apple's really shown me the light.

The most capable computer is always going to be a desktop, which, unlike a mobile device, is extremely easy to modify and upgrade.
Do you deliberately try to misunderstand? Is it that hard to fathom computing power everywhere? This is coming. It's not about small displays, it's more about doing away with displays and focus on the user interface. Which is everywhere there is data. How the transition will look I don't know, but there will be one.

I view this as inevitable. Then again, I thought Apple would get into touch displays more than a decade ago.
Old 1st April 2017
  #650
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickFaith View Post
We are almost 3 months after that statement with no info. Also in the post forum someone was asking about upgrading their old Mac, and I went over for my two trash cans how I had to add the fan programs for long running jobs and how loud the trash can is when the fan is run at sufficient levels so the trash can doesn't fail. But I was thinking apple still hasn't owned up on this issue, with a simple update the fans would run at a proper temp, but they then would be loud. So even today apples mindset is to screw over all Mac Pro trash can owners because they don't want to be embarrassed by the loud trash can - this to me qualifies the apple mindset more then anything and the reason why i never recommend macs to high performance/long-running-jobs.
So do you kick Apple's ass about this then? Please do.
Old 1st April 2017
  #651
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZFire View Post

I think Apple's current mistake is in applying the same form-over-function ethos of smart phones to their Mac lineup, where there is a significant portion of users that value things such as , ahem, "ports".
Yeah, I told an Apple sales rep recently, when a client of mine had selected a 2015 MBP over the 2016 model, that "you need to present plans for how users are going to handle these new ports with what they need ports for".

Personally I get the core idea with 4 TB3 ports, but I also realize the impractical impact on many people, certainly some of these being consumers with older things they need to connect.
Old 1st April 2017
  #652
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PatrickFaith's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
So do you kick Apple's ass about this then? Please do.
Not sure what your point is, since it's kind of obvious that they are not listening. I'm going to use my trashcan's till they die and I spent a bunch of today looking at windows machines.
Old 1st April 2017
  #653
Here for the gear
 

I'm pretty sure apple's plan is;

Say "we are committed to desktop"

Watch stock and net worth grow by 50%

Use 3% of that new money...

"We are buying (fill in niche hackintosh maker name here) and releasing brand new desktop series"
Old 1st April 2017
  #654
Gear Guru
 
Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by qwe View Post


Ridiculous patent application too.
Not sure if that was satire but Apple are just dumb sometimes. You pretty much have to encase the all glass iPhone in a case unless you want it to inevitably shatter. So using it to dock in a MacBook would be a no go unless you bought one just for that purpose. lol Yeah the iphone looks fantastic and sleek from a design standpoint but what's the point, mine is always sheathed behind a Otterbox.
Old 1st April 2017
  #655
Lives for gear
 
lowkey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by frequey View Post
I'm pretty sure apple's plan is;

Say "we are committed to desktop"

Watch stock and net worth grow by 50%

Use 3% of that new money...

"We are buying (fill in niche hackintosh maker name here) and releasing brand new desktop series"
Yeah sure. The thought of new Desktops despite being a tiny percentage of their income, is going to send their stocks through the roof! LOL.

I hope most gearslutz are better producers than economists :P
Old 1st April 2017
  #656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Jones Sr View Post
Just this week they fired out a memo to the retail stores effectively firing all of the Business managers and offering them reduced pay regular jobs. Apple doesn't want your business' business.
Where did you see this? I'm not disagreeing with you, but my neighbor is an Apple fanboi, and I'd like to be able to show this to him.

If it's true, it's not a good sign....

Steve
Old 1st April 2017
  #657
Lives for gear
 

Personal rambling of thoughts follows:

My guess towards the future is that we, the sound and video creatives will increasingly struggle with the choice of our tools.

What other areas of general computer usage really uses real time streams of data?

All things that don't require real time streams of data are probably better served "in the cloud" (as much as a dislike the concept and the word I do think it is fully accurate).

Us creatives are a tiny niche market, important in itself (at least to us and other creators) but in computer marketing terms I guess we are pretty much insignificant.
Although the "pad" era may be close to over I don't see the cloud era to be over anytime soon.
So for users writing a email, watching YouTube, making spreadsheets, planning, listening to Spotify, using CAD, monitoring and controlling complex system solutions. Most of these everyday computing uses would work fine with basically a "Thin client".
Many may "want" a real computer but almost no one will actually need one.

Personally I really don't see this as the way I would like things to go, but it sure is where the trends are heading.

End of rambling.
Old 1st April 2017
  #658
This conversation is really about the Mac Pro (and maybe the mini.) The future of iMacs and MacBooks looks fine, IMO.
Old 1st April 2017
  #659
qwe
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikG View Post
Personal rambling of thoughts follows:

My guess towards the future is that we, the sound and video creatives will increasingly struggle with the choice of our tools.
Well, for example, the "cloud" requires lots of CPUs, so production of high-end CPUs isn't about to stop...

Niche markets already exist with the overclockable versions of Intel chips and the high-end motherboards, etc. Not aimed at the wider consumer market where people are oblivious to being "pwned" by "the cloud."

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikG View Post
What other areas of general computer usage really uses real time streams of data?
Games.
Old 1st April 2017
  #660
qwe
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
Not sure if that was satire but Apple are just dumb sometimes. You pretty much have to encase the all glass iPhone in a case unless you want it to inevitably shatter. So using it to dock in a MacBook would be a no go unless you bought one just for that purpose. lol Yeah the iphone looks fantastic and sleek from a design standpoint but what's the point, mine is always sheathed behind a Otterbox.
See Patent Images.

Oops, it's a patent application, so more correctly it would be ridiculous if it's granted. A design patent would be OK.

That embodiment is probably not intended to ever be a product, it's just Apple collecting nonsense patents for their arsenal as large companies do.

Collect patents, sue competitors you want to nuke, stop competitors from suing you because you've both infringed each others patents, do a cross-licensing agreement and form an oligopoly, etc.
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