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Tim Cook on Mac Desktop commitment Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 28th March 2017
  #601
qwe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Jones Sr View Post
It's easy to lose sight of the fact that if you were to separate the Mac only part of Apple's business into it's own entity, it would be a huge and successful computer company. Stop apologising for their behaviour just because they happen to have a very successful line in iPhones. That's like saying Yamaha should quit making pianos because they sell way more motorbikes. It's ok for a large company to make several product lines, and you don't have to drop a series of products because the margin is way better on your most popular device.
Hmm, where does this "apologising" idea come from?

The only point is that the revenues say they don't have to care.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Jones Sr View Post
I think that it's 99% guaranteed now Apple will not surprise you with some return to a quasi-cheesegrater. Not because it can't be made, but because there's a huge amount of hubris and whim at the top levels of the modern Apple, and they will not backtrack on an embarrassing mistake.
It seems the company is turning into the same mess it was in the 1990s without Jobs, loss of direction and projects that should have been binned making it through to production. Who knows what they'll do with their new "spaceship" building?
Old 28th March 2017
  #602
qwe
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Jones Sr View Post
Sorry, wasn't directed at anyone, I just mean it seems people are saying it's only logical that Apple walks away from the computer line because of how much money the phones are making.
Thanks for your apology, no offence taken. :-)

Well, no-one really knows what's going on inside Apple. But the fact is that the iOS and macOS teams have been merged, and one might imagine that they want to throw all resources at the "lifestyle" customer base.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Jones Sr View Post
There's always going to be a need for 'actual' computers, but the management of Apple seem to be saying to everyone 'we'll convince you that you don't need computers at all any more' instead of saying 'we recognise that we have both consumer and professional users'. It's a general lack of respect for their customers, that should be rewarded with abandonment of their whole business.
I've never really felt Apple behaved in a way that showed any kind of respect to their customers. Hence I stopped using their products years ago.

It's always "oh sorry, this product is now obsolete, please pay us even more money at our inflated prices." And yes, that's exactly what they deserve. If the Mac Pro is a "rounding error" for them, then even if (the costs of doing a new version) were loss-making then that loss would, too, be a "rounding error."
Old 29th March 2017
  #603
I betcha Timmy is using a Dell to do all his spread sheets.
Old 29th March 2017
  #604
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pulsar modular's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pichi View Post
I betcha Timmy is using a Dell to do all his spread sheets.
And once in a while Timmy looks up from his spreadsheet and delivers his line:

"We have great products in the pipeline!"
Old 29th March 2017
  #605
qwe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pulsar modular View Post
And once in a while Timmy looks up from his spreadsheet and delivers his line:

"We have great products in the pipeline!"
Well, here's a clip of Steve Jobs which just about says it all:

https://youtu.be/keCwRdbwNQY?t=96
Old 29th March 2017
  #606
O they have $200 blue tooth " air buds"
Old 29th March 2017
  #607
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Crazy4Jazz's Avatar
 

I have no idea whether Apple will ever revive the Mac line into competitiveness or innovation but it does look doubtful at this point. As far as I can tell, I will be moving to PC eventually. There are just no options with Mac and the only reason anyone still hangs with Mac is the OS. But the gap between Mac and Windows for music applications has narrowed significantly. Once your machine is on and you are in your DAW, who cares what the OS is if it is working. The rest is just grunt work and PCs are pulling away in this department in a big way - fast and furious it seems. Its just time to move on. God knows Apple did a long time ago.
Old 29th March 2017
  #608
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UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4Jazz View Post
There are just no options with Mac and the only reason anyone still hangs with Mac is the OS. But the gap between Mac and Windows for music applications has narrowed significantly.
I wasn't aware that Mac OS was catching up to Windows. When did that happen?

Alistair
Old 30th March 2017
  #609
Riiiiighht...
So, the main argument I can see above is this:
We all want Apple to make a computer that can be upgraded and expanded over a number of years, negating the need to buy a new machine for at least a decade.
Can anyone see why Apple would not be interested doing this? Anyone?
Old 30th March 2017
  #610
Here for the gear
 

I was thinking... what if the new desktop they decide:

We are committed to desktop. BIG time!

introducing..

iDesktop. (actual desktop)

No need for a keyboard, simply write on it with iPencil!

No screen. Because... (wait for it)... the desktop IS a screen!

No need for ugly wires... there are NO ports anywhere!

Interfaces perfectly and fluidly with iPad pro.
And apple watch.

Old 30th March 2017
  #611
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Here's what's coming for the MacBook Pro. The trackpad has been removed but you can dock your iPhone Pro to do the same job!

Apple patent application

Pure genius!
Old 30th March 2017
  #612
Gear Maniac
 

This is the nicest $969 trackpad ever made.
Old 30th March 2017
  #613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Jones Sr View Post
I don't think it's outrageous to expect a 7000 dollar Mac Pro to last more than five years, especially in the case of audio professionals who like to get a studio workhorse up and running like an appliance then get on with the job of making music with it. But I don't think anyone is demanding that Apple make some kind of 'never needs replaced again' open ended machine. It's more that there has been a very clear vector of behaviour from Apple, you could still buy their expandable cheesegrater Mac Pro in 2012, fire several hard drives inside, swap out the DVD drive for a BluRay burner, chuck in a USB3.0 PCIE card, PCIE Raid, high-channel count PCIE audio interface etc, upgrade the GPU when better products arrived...etc It's arguable that the trashcan Mac has obsoleted itself already while the older model soldiers on. I can stick an Nvidia 1070 into a 2010 Mac Pro, try doing that with the 'no-one asked for these' Dual Radeon trashcan. The Thunderbolt on the trashcan is just externalised PCIE, we already had PCIE, it's lipstick on a pig, sleight of hand to resell you another raft of adapters and peripherals.

If you teleported back to 2012 and asked what people were actually wanting in a new Mac Pro, it was USB3.0, faster PCIE buss, newer/faster RAM, maybe some dedicated SSD slots, quieter fans, a more compact body, off the shelf support for 3rd party GPUs etc. But most of all I think people wanted Apple to simply show that they gave a crap about updating it and supporting that sector of user. In exactly the same sense, there are people sitting on their hands right now, credit card poised, who are quiet aware the current trashcan *could* do the job for them, but are choosing not to invest because a) it's already way out of date b) with that in mind very expensive c) ports are already abandoned by Apple and d) going with their hunch that Apple has in fact ditched the entire sector

Of course Apple will use that as evidence that no-one wants a Mac Pro any more.
Sure, but the kind of machine you're describing is something that Apple hasn't had an interest in making for maybe *half a decade.* I'm not sure why anyone would think Apple would do a u-turn. But I agree that the MacPro is a gigantic question mark and no-one would buy a Mac tomorrow unless it was absolutely needed.

I think Apple remains committed to the desktop mac for the foreseeable future. What form that desktop takes is "out of step" with the ideology of a lot of users here. Apple might be moving on their current trajectory because of their "vision" or simply economics. Probably both.

Yet, if you're an music/audio pro, Apple sells a variety of hardware that's more than capable of getting the job done. That's true now and will be going forward so I'm not sure I get all the hand wringing. The sort of machine that everyone here seems to want, Apple seems disinclined to make.

So we have a choice. Either we can make the current hardware work for us (easy) or move to PC land. Right now there's nothing stopping us getting the job done with Mac hardware and I can't see that ever changing whilst Apple make computers.

Maybe we should face the truth: As a group, we have become the niche of the niche. I understand why Apple wouldn't want to create a desktop especially for us, when instead they can create iMacs and Notebooks which are both able music machines..and can also be sold to everyone else.
Old 30th March 2017
  #614
qwe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
I wasn't aware that Mac OS was catching up to Windows. When did that happen?

Alistair
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/apfs-apple-file-system/

New file system for macOS/iOS... being rolled out with iOS 10.3. ;-)
Old 30th March 2017
  #615
qwe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pulsar modular View Post


Here's what's coming for the MacBook Pro. The trackpad has been removed but you can dock your iPhone Pro to do the same job!

Apple patent application

Pure genius!


Ridiculous patent application too.
Old 30th March 2017
  #616
Deleted 46dc28f
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwe View Post


Ridiculous patent application too.
It looks like it's inspired by the knockoff junk sold on alibaba.com.
Old 30th March 2017
  #617
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexff View Post
Maybe we should face the truth: As a group, we have become the niche of the niche.
The workstation market isn't that niche but Apple have never made any inroads into that market (less than 1% market penetration at their height) because OS X just can't deliver the performance needed by that market.

The Trashcan Mac Pro just cemented the fact that Apple do not understand or care about the needs of professionals.

Today I'm working on an HP workstation. This isn't a computer designed for audio. It works well for audio by nature of it being a powerful workstation class machine designed for professional needs. The same applies to the vast majority of computers that work well for audio: They were never designed for audio work. They were mostly designed to be good computers.

So no, I do not agree that we have become the niche of the niche. Apple simply do not make professional workstation class machines.

Alistair
Old 30th March 2017
  #618
qwe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
So no, I do not agree that we have become the niche of the niche. Apple simply do not make professional workstation class machines.
The separate motherboard market is pretty much a niche of a niche. That doesn't stop motherboard manufacturers from constantly putting out new and highly competitive product to sell to end users.

Of course "niche of a niche" is only relative to the entire market for personal and mobile computers.
Old 30th March 2017
  #619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Jones Sr View Post
That's why the message from Apple is loud and clear, it literally would be a rounding error to still have a dedicated Mac Pro department, how about doing it just for goodwill to your ecosystem of users, nope, not even that is enough to be given their attention.
Because they are a business looking to make money, beholden to shareholders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Jones Sr View Post
Alexff you said they still make things that do the job, I just disagree with this, the USB-C MBP is a massive calamity, overpriced and with adapter hell
No, it's not a calamity. It's selling well and does the job it's designed to do. A couple of adapters do not make "hell" and the price is simply a matter of perspective. Overpriced for occasional use, sure. But a markdown over 5 years of continued use, no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Jones Sr View Post
The iMac is an entirely sealed system using mobile parts and with cooling issues, and is a nuisance if you need to dual boot Windows on the same machine, nevermind the reflective screen.
Well, I'm staring at one now. I've used it 8 hours a day for 5 years, and not once have I heard the fans spin up. But sure, the reflection is an issue. I can see my ugly mug staring back at me. You get used to it..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Jones Sr View Post
You can build a very substantial, silent and reliable $1500 audio workstation nowadays, and because it's at that price level, should it catch fire one day you can probably replace it with a clone within days, although chances are all that may happen is a PSU burns out or something, and you are free to replace that one failed component. Good luck doing anything like this on any Apple product from here, what with glue-and-solder-lovin' Apple driving the 'no right to repair' campaign with bought Senators.
Then you're clearly not Apple's intended audience, and have voted with your wallet accordingly. That's cool. But to say that nothing Apple makes is suitable for music, is a stretch, TBH.
Old 30th March 2017
  #620
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwe View Post
The separate motherboard market is pretty much a niche of a niche. That doesn't stop motherboard manufacturers from constantly putting out new and highly competitive product to sell to end users.
Absolutely! That said I do think that some companies could learn from Apple and not release as many only slightly varying versions of their products. (And I don't just mean the computing world). I don't think it is too hard to find some middle ground between these two extremes.

Quote:
Of course "niche of a niche" is only relative to the entire market for personal and mobile computers.
True and that is why I keep insisting that Apple are a consumer brand with consumer products. As that I think they are doing fine.

Saying we are too niche with our computing needs, or words to that affect, would be like walking into a grocery store and complaining that they don't sell the right kind of helicopter. The problem isn't that they don't sell helicopters or that your needs are "too niche". The problem is that you are in the wrong shop!

Alistair
Old 30th March 2017
  #621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post

Want to know one relevant fact that Apple invented? CoreAudio!

I remember when Windows using friends in 2003 with glowing eyes showed me their around 40ms latencies. They were so proud. I went "So? That's supposed to be good?".

Focus on music dammit!
AFAIK CoreAudio also was based on OMS and other OpCode development, albeit rewritten freshly for OSX. However, the concept itself is good.
Windows really lept behind OSX back then until RME started writing really good ASIO drivers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pulsar modular View Post


Here's what's coming for the MacBook Pro. The trackpad has been removed but you can dock your iPhone Pro to do the same job!

Apple patent application

Pure genius!
Old 30th March 2017
  #622
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pulsar modular View Post


Here's what's coming for the MacBook Pro. The trackpad has been removed but you can dock your iPhone Pro to do the same job!

Apple patent application

Pure genius!
Cute! Now you can see, on the smart phone, the reflection of the reflection of your face from the main screen! Pure genius indeed!

Alistair
Old 30th March 2017
  #623
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pulsar modular's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexff View Post
Because they are a business looking to make money, beholden to shareholders?
Yes, but they used to be more than that. SJ talked about an inverted model with the primary goal of making great products, and making money was in service of that. Their products were never the cheapest but they used to be good value for what you got. For a decade or more, they put out so many great products. But that is no longer true, certainly not for computers. The foundation is rotting and the core goals appear to have changed. Product design is not what it used to be either, now you see gimmicks and a lot more form over function. This is Timmy's company now.
Old 30th March 2017
  #624
qwe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pulsar modular View Post
Yes, but they used to be more than that. SJ talked about an inverted model with the primary goal of making great products, and making money was in service of that.
Jobs has always been about the "closed box"... like the original Mac.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pulsar modular View Post
Product design is not what it used to be either, now you see gimmicks and a lot more form over function. This is Timmy's company now.
I noticed, not long into the post-Jobs era, slightly wonky pictures of a new product on the Apple site. That would not have happened under Jobs!
Old 30th March 2017
  #625
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pulsar modular's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by qwe View Post
Jobs has always been about the "closed box"... like the original Mac.
Yes, but they also made many open designs on his watch. I was never a fan but the iMac makes some sense as an inexpensive, and simplified computer, easy to setup and for the masses. But step by step they are moving towards something like an iMac Pro - which really is an oxymoron.
Old 30th March 2017
  #626
qwe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pulsar modular View Post
Yes, but they also made many open designs on his watch. I was never a fan but the iMac makes some sense as an inexpensive, and simplified computer, easy to setup and for the masses. But step by step they are moving towards something like an iMac Pro - which really is an oxymoron.
True, although the PowerBook and PowerMac lines existed before Jobs returned in the late 1990s.

The "trashcan" Mac Pro is just a variant on the "cube" desktop machines that Jobs liked.

OTOH, I remember when Steve Jobs introduced the 30" Cinema Display. "We used to dream about this stuff... The first time I saw one of these I couldn't talk for the first minute."

https://youtu.be/dPCNUExWR6I?t=1033
Old 30th March 2017
  #627
Gear Maniac
 
RoyJeeBiv's Avatar
 

i still maintain that Apple died w/ Jobs. they are lucky his coattails were long.

(wait for the faithful to point to Apple's financial earnings in 3... 2...)
Old 30th March 2017
  #628
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login's Avatar
Well pretty much what happens when accountants take over engineers in a company.

If Apple gives up the Mac Pro soon it is the end of the road for that branch of products.

Sadly I still know people that are afraid of leving apple behind and they are going to be milked to their bones.
Old 31st March 2017
  #629
Gear Maniac
 

At this point the onus is on Pipeline Timmy to prove their commitment to Pro users and the associated products, not just pay lip service to them.
Old 31st March 2017
  #630
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Jones Sr View Post
I often think the relationship of long standing professional Apple users to the company is like that of an abused spouse. I see people saying they spent $5000 on the emoji bar MBP and the associated suitcase full of dongles and major inconveniences, and they grit their teeth, trying to smile, but it just looks like the bruised-face victim saying 'oh silly me I just fell down the stairs, it's not fist marks honestly'.
That's odd. All Apple users I know (plenty) just spit out product, day out and day in. Some of them do this on 5 year old computers, some on new ones, including also a few hackintoshes.
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