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Tim Cook on Mac Desktop commitment Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 4th January 2017
  #31
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The Music Industry ... where people wear purple zipper pants and green sun glasses to be edgey and creative... but refuses to use any technology outside of 1985
Old 4th January 2017
  #32
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claborn View Post
The Music Industry ... where people wear purple zipper pants and green sun glasses to be edgey and creative... but refuses to use any technology outside of 1985
Uh...yeah....right. Brilliant.

How about...do what works for you?

TH
Old 5th January 2017
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
Uh...yeah....right. Brilliant.

How about...do what works for you?

TH
Why is it like pulling teeth in this industry when it comes to new tech. Film makers gobble up any new camera that hits the market and make blockbusters and I'm over here arguing on a website called GEARSLUTZ about which 1985 dinosaur is best.
Old 5th January 2017
  #34
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claborn View Post
Why is it like pulling teeth in this industry when it comes to new tech. Film makers gobble up any new camera that hits the market and make blockbusters and I'm over here arguing on a website called GEARSLUTZ about which 1985 dinosaur is best.
Old 5th January 2017
  #35
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I had an iMac. Not going to buy another. I always wanted to use Macs, but I am preparing to go back to a Windows PC. The iMac is an invisible product to me, like are coffee machines* or meat grinders*.

*non-coffee-drinking vegetarian
Old 5th January 2017
  #36
Gear Head
It's frustrating because I really quite like OS X and I find Logic Pro, despite its weirdness at times, a pleasure to use.

At the same time, the new MacBook Pros don't appeal to me at all despite having used a Mac since 2005 and the lack of desktops is concerning. Even if they did now go ahead and update the Mac Pro in 2017 (I don't think they will) I genuinely don't trust them to keep maintaining it after that.
Old 5th January 2017
  #37
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brucerothwell's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kangking View Post
what does mac have thats exclusive to mac these days?
Because it is based on Unix, I'd opine a much more stable and less-attacked OS.

Without that, you just have hardware components in a case.
Old 5th January 2017
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucerothwell View Post
Because it is based on Unix, I'd opine a much more stable and less-attacked OS.

Without that, you just have hardware components in a case.
may be true. but you pay extra for that! They tie you in and make you buy the hardware from them so it is less customizable.

For 3k the price of a mac pro i can build a KILLER windows desktop. with Crazy processing power and graphics power with better storage options and more ram!

for 4k the price of the premium mac pro, i can put a 10 core broadwell E And a titan X in a windows machine! WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Old 5th January 2017
  #39
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoke View Post
It's much more than software. For some, the entire experience is a preference.
With the way that things change these days, it's nice for me to come home to something familiar that's been with me for 2 decades.

I personally cannot stand when someone has a PC issue, and folks are with paragraphs of "oh this registry, that directory, this and that exe" I'm sure that's simple stuff, but I'd rather not add that information to my brain.
Windows 10 ended all that! Trust me! I used to be on the mac boat myself, it was better for years! But Windows 10 is so good I jumped ship! Mac is sinking fast, too money hungry! They ruined final cut X! They are marketing for ipads and Iphones now and totally forgot about professionals! PC FTW!
Old 5th January 2017
  #40
Welcome to the future! Im running dual 4k displays using pro tools under windows! From a GTX 970 and an i7 5820k! Smooth! Gonna add a 3rd 4k display! Yes!
Old 5th January 2017
  #41
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latweek's Avatar
 

I generally record all my analog in Mac and mix/sequence in Windows.

The bits sound more "pristine" through Unix, but Windows gives it a more "punchy" feel with a few registry hacks.

And if you need some "grit", Android craps all over iOS.

Also, wired keyboards are still a must have when it comes to certain types of low latency music like bagpipe metal.

GS, kickin' butt in 2017.
Old 5th January 2017
  #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoke View Post
I personally cannot stand when someone has a PC issue, and folks are with paragraphs of "oh this registry, that directory, this and that exe" I'm sure that's simple stuff, but I'd rather not add that information to my brain.
Which means it is either a very old system or someone has a crap configuration. I don't think I ever needed to tell any of our customers to do something like that. And if it ever was needed, I'd do it myself remotely.
Seriously, Windows has come a long way, I need to repeat myself:
the main difference between Macs and Windows systems is the availability of too many crap configurations based on Windows (the reason I bought Macs myself years ago) and too many people comparing a company configured semi-turnkey solution with cheap self-builts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPower View Post
While PCI may not be totally dead for audio it is on serious life support :-). Virtually no-one is making PCI audio interfaces and the amount of new PCI audio interfaces in 2016 is - I am not sure there were any...

Look at this page for an idea (number of Audio Interface products) -
Audio Interfaces | Sweetwater.com
Thunderbolt Audio Interfaces - 53
Firewire - 23
USB - 189
PCI - 19

What business person would strategize PCI slots for new computers?
Well, that list is excluding some professional brands, as PCIe is still very focussed on broadcast and large setups, i.e. AES, MADI, Ravenna, Dante, AVB, Cobranet, LiveWire (Marian, Merging, Yamaha, Digigram, Audioscience, etc.). It does not make sense to use an external box only to send out one or two wires from it. External boxes make sense if there is a multitude of cables coming out and you have hands-on UI like preamp dials.
And that is just the audio world. For video, you need one or more large GPU's, capture cards, etc.
For 3D playout and event systems, our media servers are completely filled with PCIe cards: 1 or 2 workstation GPU's, capture cards, 10Gbase ethernet, dedicated RAID card (despite onboard RAID). This is a huge market.
There is a very large world outside our little audio spot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
Also, you're wrong. Examples from the business history contain lots of products being more or less given away until it was possible to make a profit.
But the issue seems to be that Apple is not making (enough) profit from these boxes at all. They are too large for that. Of course they could do it, like I suggested, as an F1 type strategy, but then they'd need a different concept than the dustbin and more updates. I've spoken to many professionals over the years for whom the current design just isn't going to be a consideration. Power is not the issue, they are just as fast as any Windows based box with the same CPU's, but if you design yourself out of the market, you have an issue with your intended customer base. The dustbin is only a marginal success because Apple has many loyal customers, many customers who have based their entire ecosystem on an Apple infrastructure, and - and this I respect - in many cases it all seems to work just fine, despite many little boxes with wires between them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 808KickDrum View Post
Problem is, pcie is the best "interface" ever devised, and the modern alternatives are just second rate in terms of bandwidth (even tb3 has to share with video, etc) and noise.
I don't quite agree with this: for most tasks, even TB1 is sufficient. TB3 has technical issues in many cases. But the protocol itself is on par with PCIe. TB2 works brilliant here with the 3 interfaces I've tested, truly plug and play. The bandwidth is absolutely sufficient. Yet I still want PCIe slots for a GPU of choice, a RAID card and a UAD2 or 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
How about...do what works for you?
This. We need more of it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Claborn View Post
Why is it like pulling teeth in this industry when it comes to new tech. Film makers gobble up any new camera that hits the market and make blockbusters and I'm over here arguing on a website called GEARSLUTZ about which 1985 dinosaur is best.
You are a bit controversial here: Apple is a company which actually pushes new tech. The only gripe is that they also burn old tech which cause many users to have obsolete hardware when getting a new system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by latweek View Post
GS, kickin' butt in 2017.
Better than crack.
Old 5th January 2017
  #43
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pulsar modular's Avatar
 

It's a real shame what is happening, or rather not happening, with the Macs. macOS is a brilliant OS and the development environment is better than it has ever been; truly state of the art. The current hardware however, not so much. This guy sums it up well:

A World Without the Mac Pro
Old 5th January 2017
  #44
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jlaws's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by latweek View Post
I generally record all my analog in Mac and mix/sequence in Windows.

The bits sound more "pristine" through Unix, but Windows gives it a more "punchy" feel with a few registry hacks.

And if you need some "grit", Android craps all over iOS.

Also, wired keyboards are still a must have when it comes to certain types of low latency music like bagpipe metal.

GS, kickin' butt in 2017.
At first, Wasn't sure if you were serious but the bagpipe metal put you way over the top. Good job, you win the internet today!
Old 5th January 2017
  #45
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pulsar modular's Avatar
 

One possibility that could explain the aging product line.

Evidence is mounting that Apple will convert Macs to ARM CPUs/
Old 5th January 2017
  #46
New computer build I just came up with, called the "Mac Pro Killer".

Link:

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/kangki...d/#view=bDBvK8

Description:
Monster 10 core pc under $4,000 designed to destroy the 6 core mac pro.


Part List:


CPU

Intel Core i7-6950X 3.0GHz 10-Core Processor
$1579.79


CPU Cooler

Corsair H115i 104.7 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler
$110.04


Motherboard

Gigabyte GA-X99P-SLI ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard
$236.88


Memory

Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4-3000 Memory
$399.99


Storage

Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive
$164.99

Western Digital BLACK SERIES 4TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive
$196.99


Video Card

EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Superclocked Gaming ACX 3.0 Video Card
$619.99


Case

Cooler Master Storm Stryker (White) ATX Full Tower Case
$153.98


Power Supply

Corsair 1000W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply
$195.49


Optical Drive

LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer
$46.88


Operating System

Microsoft Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit
$129.77


Total: $3834.79
Old 5th January 2017
  #47
Gear Maniac
 

I've stopped using macs now. I'm a hackintosher all the way. Dead silent. I really hate those tiny imac fans going bananas.
Old 5th January 2017
  #48
Here for the gear
Actually you don't even need a 6950X to beat the best mac pro out there. I have a 6900K hackintosh which smokes any mac pro out there. it gets the same geekbench score as a 2x12 core e5-2697 v2 which is twice the mac pro CPU

even at stock 3.2Ghz it runs faster then any mac pro out there (12 core). so yeah Apple is really ****ting her pro customers for a long long time now....
There were times when I was so excited about buying my Apple hardware. not anymore. Its only a matter of time before I'll stop using their OS as well. they doesn't seem to care enough for people who use their computers as workstations.
Old 5th January 2017
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
But the issue seems to be that Apple is not making (enough) profit from these boxes at all. They are too large for that. Of course they could do it, like I suggested, as an F1 type strategy, but then they'd need a different concept than the dustbin and more updates.
What are you talking about? Apple made maybe about 4 billion dollars in profits —*profits, not revenue —*in 2016 from computers alone.

If Apple is too big for profits other makers only can dream about, then they should form a subsidiary called Apple Computers focused only on computers as long as there is a market for these things.
Old 5th January 2017
  #50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
What are you talking about? Apple made maybe about 4 billion dollars in profits —*profits, not revenue —*in 2016 from computers alone.

If Apple is too big for profits other makers only can dream about, then they should form a subsidiary called Apple Computers focused only on computers as long as there is a market for these things.
I am talking about the MacPro, not the iMacs, which obviously generate $$$.
Old 5th January 2017
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kangking View Post
Windows 10 ended all that! Trust me! I used to be on the mac boat myself, it was better for years! But Windows 10 is so good I jumped ship! Mac is sinking fast, too money hungry! They ruined final cut X! They are marketing for ipads and Iphones now and totally forgot about professionals! PC FTW!
I can't disagree with the change in direction (or priority) but, I wasn't discounting Win 10 or anything about their progress. I just prefer Mac OS overall. I like my icons on the right, I like the dock. I like command vs ctrl, prefer System Preferences over Control Panel. I'm one of those people that have a pair of jeans or boots and rarely replace them, and when I do, I buy the exact same ones! (Yes, I realize you can configure the PC to 'act' like a Mac to a degree, but it's not the same, it's something intangible and nuanced - similar to how we may prefer one console over another)

As far as I'm concerned, the only issue is not knowing where we are going for the future. I would hate for my Mac to break down. I buy a PC, then a Mac Pro comes out.

These Cook quotes do not inspire any confidence from me. It's almost an insult TBH
Old 5th January 2017
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
I am talking about the MacPro, not the iMacs, which obviously generate $$$.
I refuse to believe that Apple views the Mac Pro as optional. Later lack of developments aside. I would have bought a Mac Pro by now if they had kept updating them. I do not believe one bit of the sentiment that the Mac Pro hasn't been updated because Apple makes too little money selling these. It makes more sense for Apple to view the whole computer line as one thing.

If you know anything about Apple it would appear more reasonable that their A-team employees have been busy on other non desktop projects. I find this inexcusable, but then I don't know how hard it can be forming x number of teams at Apple on x number of projects that may or may not be developed into a product.

Last edited by Mikael B; 10th January 2017 at 10:21 AM..
Old 5th January 2017
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitsogood View Post
Its only a matter of time before I'll stop using their OS as well. they doesn't seem to care enough for people who use their computers as workstations.
Well, good luck. To me a Hackintosh is the best of 2 worlds. There's no chance I'm migrating to Windows 10. macOS is still the best OS on the planet. No Unix? Forget it.
Old 5th January 2017
  #54
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
Well, good luck. To me a Hackintosh is the best of 2 worlds. There's no chance I'm migrating to Windows 10. macOS is still the best OS on the planet. No Unix? Forget it.
For now I tend to agree. I simply hate windows. I just feel lots have changed for the worse since Snow Leopard. its not as snappy as it was for audio, and I have a beast of a machine. hopefully I won't have to stop using it ever...
Old 5th January 2017
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
Well, good luck. To me a Hackintosh is the best of 2 worlds. There's no chance I'm migrating to Windows 10. macOS is still the best OS on the planet. No Unix? Forget it.
macOS, no. earlier versions of OSX, maybe. windows10 runs better on my 2011 macbook pro than Sierra does.
Old 6th January 2017
  #56
Lives for gear
my man i have a PC gaming machine aside from my Mac. Hell yeah it runs fast, and mine isn't even that great. But it starts up in seconds. Runs Win 8 - I know 10 would improve it. But I can do what I need to do. Often I need to 'fix' something for a game or whatever. Put this into that folder and delete the old one. Whatever. I don't use the internet on that one, maybe a bit of Twitch. It's fine.


But I still do not want to make music on it. It feels cold and damp. Rigid. No way in hell I would use that to actually get into a groove.

On the Mac I lay back in my chair, I can have my eyes closed. Actually the transitions have been so good, I actually pretty much have not changed anything since the 90s. Even towards the osX thing, even after 64 bit, same directories. Not to mention a 2008 lasts 8 years without missing a beat. You develop some trust along the line and that means a lot to me.
Old 6th January 2017
  #57
Gear Addict
 

The chip makers are bringing new chips online. So far intel's new chip is overpriced. Apple wants to save money and not just write a blank check to intel for little newness. AMD zen and new gpus are coming, I think Apple is waiting to check that out. Might be better performance at much lower price if it competes. But if I was Cook I wouldn't be in a rush for either, wait and see..
Old 6th January 2017
  #58
Gear Maniac
 

I've been using a Macs exclusively for 25 years. Was waiting to buy a new MBP, but didn't like the specs. Refused to pay for a 3 year old Mac Pro so I built a PC for the first time last month with help from this forum.

Windows 10 is not my cup of tea, and getting things up and running was a bit of a drag, but the system has been rock solid from a stability standpoint. Turns out I actually prefer Pro Tools to Logic, which I've been using for 5 years. (I do miss Alchemy).

I still wind up using my ancient MacBook Pro for all non-professional tasks, because of the aforementioned Windows 10 suckage, but I think the Desktop PC for professional, Mac laptop for mobile/personal concept is the way forward for me. Never thought I would say that in a milllion years, even 6 months ago.
Old 6th January 2017
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pulsar modular View Post
One possibility that could explain the aging product line.

Evidence is mounting that Apple will convert Macs to ARM CPUs/
Interesting article; thanks.
Old 6th January 2017
  #60
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitsogood View Post
For now I tend to agree. I simply hate windows. I just feel lots have changed for the worse since Snow Leopard. its not as snappy as it was for audio, and I have a beast of a machine. hopefully I won't have to stop using it ever...
As someone who has managed to skipped most versions since except 10.9 Mavericks, now on 10.11 El Capitan as well as 10.12 Sierra, I can only say that this lack snappiness likely only can come from running old software, old drivers and whatnot.

My experience on older Macbook Pros I've found each major update I've done (10.9, 10.11) to be as snappy or snappier than previous versions. I've done all as clean installs, except 10.11. I use RME only since I had some issues with NI under 10.9. I use SSD only as the difference is staggering.

I simply don't believe in all new major Xes being buggier or slower than 10.6, which obviously still is a usable OS for those that can use it. But if you're moving forward scrapping old hardware especially is often necessary.
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