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Tim Cook on Mac Desktop commitment Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 5th February 2017
  #391
Gear Nut
friend of mine made his 1st hack on 2H30 he never made one before
maybe this could be the only solution. as mac os is a great daw but apple doesnt want to sell nice macpros anymore
Old 8th February 2017
  #392
Gear Addict
 

Friend of mine as well just sent me this. He just bought a HP Z2 for a crazy low price. Food for thoughts.
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Tim Cook on Mac Desktop commitment-16651561_10155810496883312_2010228034_o.jpg  
Old 8th February 2017
  #393
Lives for gear
 
robinkle's Avatar
Hackintosh is one thing. Could be troublesome with updates, and not entirely legal, but it is still an option.

But what I would like to see is:
MacOS bundled with a standard Motherboard made by Apple and a compatible GPU and Ram of choice, so I could legally build my own fully functional Macintosh.

Sinse they obvously gives a damn to update their own products, this would be a great way to do it I think.
Old 8th February 2017
  #394
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
Specs of their top of the line Z8 Workstation: 44 CPU cores, 5760 CUDA cores, 1TB RAM, 24 TB Internal Storage, 7 PCIe slots. The most powerful Mac is a pocket calculator in comparison.
lol...
48000 TFLOPS and 15360 CUDA cores is much more sexy.
But then again, those CUDA cores don't help us audio nerds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IPascal View Post
next week i'll try to install... Samplitude !
Will that work with the dongle? Or only with serial number, if at all?


Quote:
Originally Posted by riteup3 View Post
Friend of mine as well just sent me this. He just bought a HP Z2 for a crazy low price. Food for thoughts.
Well, Geekbench and OpenCL say pretty much nothing about audio performance.
But that CPU will do a nice job either way.
Old 8th February 2017
  #395
Quote:
Originally Posted by robinkle View Post
Hackintosh is one thing. Could be troublesome with updates, and not entirely legal, but it is still an option.

But what I would like to see is:
MacOS bundled with a standard Motherboard made by Apple and a compatible GPU and Ram of choice, so I could legally build my own fully functional Macintosh.

Sinse they obvously gives a damn to update their own products, this would be a great way to do it I think.
The issue with that is they become comparable, their current 300% markup is lost (on expensive systems) and it will be a support disaster. They are successful because they provide a working isle solution which does it all. Breaking that circle is even more destructive than their current lack of support and development for professionals.
Old 8th February 2017
  #396
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robinkle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
The issue with that is they become comparable, their current 300% markup is lost (on expensive systems) and it will be a support disaster. They are successful because they provide a working isle solution which does it all. Breaking that circle is even more destructive than their current lack of support and development for professionals.
Sure there are a few compromises. But they could still limit compatibility to components that apple verifies, and provide support only within those limits. But you as a customer would be able to get a mac based on personal preferences. What they are doing today is nothing except ruining for themselves.
Old 8th February 2017
  #397
Quote:
Originally Posted by robinkle View Post
Sure there are a few compromises. But they could still limit compatibility to components that apple verifies, and provide support only within those limits. But you as a customer would be able to get a mac based on personal preferences. What they are doing today is nothing except ruining for themselves.
Well, if profit and brand recognition is something they need to compromise, they'll leave it.
Seriously, the worst thing they could do is sell motherboards and start taxing their OS which becomes more and more of a cluttered bling loaded web surfing experience.
Without the posh designed box that shows nothing technical aside from as few connectors as possible, it all falls apart.
And believe me, there is not enough money on Apple focused motherboards to even let the board of directors pay their car fuel bills.
Old 8th February 2017
  #398
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
Will that work with the dongle? Or only with serial number, if at all?
.
haven't tried yet with last version of sampro but works with Sam6 (with serial n°)
works with reaper5 windows edition
doesn't not work with studio one
works with a lot of VST and VSTI (ex Nebula)
does not work with waves

With play one linux seems working with ableton live 8/9... as I can see these daws on the list...

Answers on the linux thread. (professional audio on linux)
I'll try 1/1 with demos If I don't own some daws (as i cannot buy all daws !)

Quote:
Friend of mine as well just sent me this. He just bought a HP Z2 for a crazy low price. Food for thoughts
.
Old 8th February 2017
  #399
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
their OS which becomes more and more of a cluttered bling loaded web surfing experience.
Without the posh designed box that shows nothing technical aside from as few connectors as possible, it all falls apart.
I totally disagree with this. macOS is a great operating system no matter what you want to do. Nothing of use has been removed since 10.0 and what has been added isn't fluff. Forget about the Apple apps, the OS is great.

The hardware may not be up to snuff for some pros, but from a pure technical design point Apple hardware is very functional high quality work, mostly made for consumers.

This pretending everything Apple is crap is not impressive at all.
Old 8th February 2017
  #400
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by robinkle View Post
Sure there are a few compromises. But they could still limit compatibility to components that apple verifies, and provide support only within those limits. But you as a customer would be able to get a mac based on personal preferences. What they are doing today is nothing except ruining for themselves.
Somehow Apple needs to cater to Pros. And soon.
Old 8th February 2017
  #401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
This pretending everything Apple is crap is not impressive at all.
You misunderstand me here.
I am only negative about the addition of fluffy features which distract.
I have worked with OSX from 10.2 until 10.7. When sitting behind a Mac now (on a Creative Suite iMac), every new OS version alienates me more and more.
Old 8th February 2017
  #402
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
every new OS version alienates me more and more.
Agreed
Old 8th February 2017
  #403
Lives for gear
 
ISedlacek's Avatar
The times when Mac computers were considered as a real professional alternative have passed long long time ago ... Nowadays Apple is rather swimming in a kind of "entertainment industry" with all those iPhones, iPads etc. and making emphasis on fancy design etc.

MacPro is ridiculously overpriced (without standard connection options) while 5 times cheaper PC will make at least the same good service.

The current Apple (rather unfortunate) tendency is also illustrated by the fact that the latest MacBook Pro 2016 suddenly stopped supporting 96 kHz from its headphone output (all the previous Macbooks normally played 96 kHz). Ridiculous, but it is simply so. I was a bit shocked by this after buying it.
Old 8th February 2017
  #404
qwe
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
The times when Mac computers were considered as a real professional alternative have passed long long time ago ... Nowadays Apple is rather swimming in a kind of "entertainment industry" with all those iPhones, iPads etc. and making emphasis on fancy design etc.
Apple has always been about great industrial design, and they've forced the rest of the consumer electronics world to pay more attention to it.

It's interesting that in the promotional video for the original aluminium PowerMac G5 Jon Ives talked about how the industrial design is practical, e.g. how easy it is to install/replace hard drives.

Unfortunately these days their superglued shut products are, more than ever, overpriced accessories for the metropolitan classes.

In pushing the idea of Apple being 'innovative' they've gone way beyond a bit of marketing hyperbole when their products are, for the most part, really quite pedestrian commodities. OTOH, they are exceptionally good at executing planned obsolescence!
Old 8th February 2017
  #405
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
MacPro is ridiculously overpriced (without standard connection options) while 5 times cheaper PC will make at least the same good service.
Just specified an HP Z840 with similar options to my 2009 Mac Pro, which it will be replacing.

Savings are barely noticeable over the Trashcan Mac Pro, once a second processor and graphics cards are added to the base unit (which is single processor and lacks any graphics by default).

And the Linux drivers are an additional charge.
Old 8th February 2017
  #406
I know I’m about to catch unholy hell for my two cent comment:

Apple should stop making desktops and laptops all together, just sell the OS.
Cut the weight of producing machines that are not on par with p.c.’s in features and price. Concentrate R&D on your big profit items like the iPhone, iPad etc. I would love to buy or make a powerful desktop machine and just simply install OS and be done with it. Oh bollocks, I just made a legitimate Mackintosh/Hackintosh!!!
Old 8th February 2017
  #407
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
The current Apple (rather unfortunate) tendency is also illustrated by the fact that the latest MacBook Pro 2016 suddenly stopped supporting 96 kHz from its headphone output (all the previous Macbooks normally played 96 kHz).
They also don't have any digital i/o anymore, don't they?
Old 8th February 2017
  #408
qwe
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompower9 View Post
Apple should stop making desktops and laptops all together, just sell the OS.
And how much are they going to have to charge for each OS license to reach break even?
Old 8th February 2017
  #409
Lives for gear
 
ISedlacek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
They also don't have any digital i/o anymore, don't they?
They have just 4 USB-C ports. You can connect some USB- DAC there (via USB - USB-C adapter , but that 's already another box and another adapter
Old 8th February 2017
  #410
Lives for gear
 
lestermagneto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
Well, Geekbench and OpenCL say pretty much nothing about audio performance.
But that CPU will do a nice job either way.
Are there any third party things along the lines of Geekbench etc that DO tell anything about possible audio performance on a machine? Or are there too many variables (from drivers for interfaces to ram, drives etc?)
Old 8th February 2017
  #411
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lestermagneto View Post
Are there any third party things along the lines of Geekbench etc that DO tell anything about possible audio performance on a machine? Or are there too many variables (from drivers for interfaces to ram, drives etc?)
DAW Bench : DAW Performance Benchmarking

Is the best we got. As you say, lots of variables, but useful for comparison across chips when the same rig is used. Pete Kaine does a useful annual chart and has said in another thread it'll be updated sometime this year with the new offerings from Intel & AMD.
Old 8th February 2017
  #412
Gear Maniac
First of all I agree with most of the posters that Apple is somewhat slow in their computer development

Next when reading through this thread, - and most other threads regarding the subject - there are some central arguments that keep comming up and which I think needs a little attention:

1: Macs are ridiculous overpriced.
2: I just build a pc that smokes <insert what ever mac you like>
3: It cost me a fraction of <insert what ever mac you like>.

I think this needs to be balanced a bit:

I have seen a million - well, many - threads about: "Why does my new pc-build not do this or that?" Answer 1: "You need to tweak this or that." Many times these tweaks seem to have no effect. Answer 2: " Your motherboard/chipset - or whatever - does not support this or that/or incompatible, - go buy another motherboard/chipset - or whatever".

It seems to me you might easily end up spending many, many hours building and then debugging before you ever get to making music.
Futhermore if you have to replace several components because they don't work as expected, the economic advantage might easily blow away in the air.
And despite all your efforts you might end up with a rather unstable/buggy set up

If you buy a generic pc - laptop or desktop - it often seems to be somewhat hit and mis too. It seems you have to be somekind of computer wizzard to get around well in the pc-for-music-world.

Well, what if you don't want to build yourself or you are not a expert or know someone who is - or claims to be - that expert and can guide you through the jungle?
Then you will reach out for someone like DAW PLUS from IX Machines or ADK. I guess these guys know what they are doing and stand behind their products with a fine after sales service.
Go and have a look at these guys pricelists. Maybe then macs does not seem that overpriced.

i'm in no way trying to say IX Machines or ADK are overpriced or not fine companies. What I mean is as simple as if you want a product that works (pretty much) out of the box, you have to pay a certain amount of money.

This thread - and many alike - tends to focus a lot on build and/or tweak yourself.
I -and I guess a lot of others - have no interest - or knowledge - in building or tweaking computers. And if we want to get a system that works without any (or only little fuzz), - well, guess we must accept that there probably is no cheap tickets.

A final word: I am a mac-user and been that since 1990. I'm in no way a fanboy - my next music computer might well be a pc and I deeply respect you guys who build and tweak your own workstations.
My intention with this post was only to add a perspective that seems to be missing in the debate.
Old 8th February 2017
  #413
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefonia View Post
Then you will reach out for someone like DAW PLUS from IX Machines or ADK. I guess these guys know what they are doing and stand behind their products with a fine after sales service.
Go and have a look at these guys pricelists. Maybe then macs does not seem that overpriced.
Remember that these machines are (potentially, depending on choice of components) much more powerful than current Mac's. That is something to keep in mind when comparing prices.

Alistair
Old 8th February 2017
  #414
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by qwe View Post
Apple has always been about great industrial design, and they've forced the rest of the consumer electronics world to pay more attention to it.
Unnecessarily so, its only a computer, a tool. When are they going to turn their incredible talent to redesigning a hammer?
Old 8th February 2017
  #415
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
When are they going to turn their incredible talent to redesigning a hammer?
They did, years ago. It came in different sizes, too. Sales were kinda slow...



Old 8th February 2017
  #416
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefonia View Post

1: Macs are ridiculous overpriced.
2: I just build a pc that smokes <insert what ever mac you like>
3: It cost me a fraction of <insert what ever mac you like>.
A final word: I am a mac-user and been that since 1990. I'm in no way a fanboy
Mac user since 1992.apple doesn't want to produce mac pros anymore.
end of discussion. you haven' t changed but apple changed since... 2011.
We can live on a dream or wake up. Waited for years for a new MP then for nice Mbp
there's no new MP, new mbp are overpriced toys. Macs are glued .
Over. time to switch.

I see last fans (was one of them ) desperately waiting for next keynote next year
not this year, maybe next next year next year
not this year, next year?
It's enough.I've been waiting too long for new mac pros. over

Giving Customers the Respect They Want and Deserve

http://www.financialwisdom.com/pflsr...ustomers.shtml
http://www.wikihow.com/Retain-Customers

Bye !

Last edited by IPascal; 8th February 2017 at 11:20 PM..
Old 8th February 2017
  #417
Lives for gear
 

In a proper studio, computers are in a machine room due to noise and cooling and thus their cosmetics are meaningless. You should be able to make the exact same argument for the home guys and just substitute adjacent non-audio space for machine room. For pro audio usage, function is all that matters as we basically adapt whatever is readily available for our niche usage. Luckily both platforms Mac and PC can be configured for this, the PC just represents the better value at this time. Remember though you don't pick the computer first when examining your specific DAW setup needs / budget / tools that will get you there.

As for the "it just works" debate. You just pay extra to have anything dumbed down. Given the time and effort it actually takes to learn to record properly to get great results, if you are the type that just "wants to make music" then book a studio, your results will likely be far better for equal or less money (and that's not putting a dollar value on your time LOL). If you want to Engineer then part of the tradecraft these days is knowing quite a bit about computers and specifically the tweeks needed to adapt them for our optimal usage.
Old 8th February 2017
  #418
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
Remember that these machines are (potentially, depending on choice of components) much more powerful than current Mac's. That is something to keep in mind when comparing prices.

Alistair
Yes, I'm aware of that.
Just out of curiosity I compared the prices of a XI Machines Basic and a 27" iMac.

XI Machines Basic: € 1.750 ex vat (250GB SSD) 8GB RAM
iMac 27" i5: € 1.753 - 1.921 ex. vat (standard 7.200 HD or FusionDrive) 8GB RAM

Here are comparisons of a few specs

You can add up to 64 GB on both.

XI: PCI and easy to expand, - iMac: no and no

Processors: XI Skylarke (i5 ?), - iMac i5 (Skylarke ?)

XI: No monitor (and maybe no mouse/keyboard), - iMac: 5K 27"

XI Basic might have some futher advantages compared to the iMac than PCI and being easy to expand , but it is interesting to the subject that the prices are what they are. Remember you have to add a 4-5K monitor and maybe a keyboard and mouse to the XI, which adds quite a sum to the price.

Again, not trying to defend/attack mac or pc. Just trying to make the point, that a certain level of quality/reliability seems to have a price.

Last edited by bluefonia; 8th February 2017 at 11:40 PM..
Old 9th February 2017
  #419
qwe
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefonia View Post
It seems to me you might easily end up spending many, many hours building and then debugging before you ever get to making music.
The last PC I built for myself (a few months ago) worked just fine first time. Top quality everything from reputable brands. We're not in the dark ages of reading some 'pidgin English' manual in the hope of setting the jumpers correctly on some dodgy motherboard only to find the large electrolytic capacitors explode after a couple of months!

(I also built a couple of PCs for a friend (who is starting a new business) over Christmas using less expensive, but still good quality, components. They also worked first time.)

It did take a few hours to build, but that's mostly because I'm extremely fussy over getting all the cabling as neat as possible. Besides, the building process is fun. :-)

Plus the motherboard vendor supplies quite good software if one really wants to spend ages with Prime95 'tweaking' to get max. performance vs. stability.

Also you may wish to apply the same OS tweaks to a Mac such as eliminating unwanted background services?
Old 9th February 2017
  #420
Lives for gear
 
lowkey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by IPascal View Post
new mbp are overpriced toys.
IMO the new MBPs are overpriced, especially here in Australia, where the currency rates have also pushed up prices. But to call it a toy is just hyperbole.

Show me another portable laptop [less than 2kgs] that can drive 2 external 5k monitors. Or 4 external 4k monitors, multiple Raid arrays and as many firewire and usb audio interfaces as you'd like?

There is simply no other laptop with the data throughput of those machines.
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