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Tim Cook on Mac Desktop commitment Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 29th January 2017
  #301
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lowkey's Avatar
 

I agree. The mini is cool. But it was shot down like a lead ballon on the MR forums for those reasons I gave. Not using desktop parts. Not PCI slots- yes the anti Apple brigade insisted they needed them. Blah blah blah.

It doesn't matter what Apple does. Period. There will be armchair critics who know better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
I have no idea what you're on about. The Mini is a monitor-less computer that came out after the G5 tower. It is exactly what many people asked for, hence its incredible popularity to this day. Nobody asked for PCI-slots in a consumer desktop.



I'm not one of them.



The Cube was a great concept but poorly executed. How good a concept it was became apparent years later with the release of the Mini.
Old 29th January 2017
  #302
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pulsar modular's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
I agree. The mini is cool. But it was shot down like a lead ballon on the MR forums for those reasons I gave. Not using desktop parts. Not PCI slots- yes the anti Apple brigade insisted they needed them. Blah blah blah.

It doesn't matter what Apple does. Period. There will be armchair critics who know better.
It was pretty good, but the last refresh made it much harder to upgrade and removed the quad-core option. Apple shot it down themselves.
Old 30th January 2017
  #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoughlan View Post
Building an unsupported and illegal hackintosh is relatively simple (for someone with technical aptitude -- again, you post on Gearslutz which makes you more technically savvy than the majority of the PC purchasing population).

Making it a supported product introduces a ton of complexities and has a ton of implications on existing products and brand perception. See my later posts.

But for you and the others who think you know better, I suggest writing Apple a letter. If your ideas are really so great and simple that they can be implemented that easily they will certainly take them and we will all have the computers of our dreams in short order.
I DO know better, that's why I'll do nothing of the sort! The cat is out of the bag- I never want to deal with Apple branded hardware again! OSX on Wintel hardware? Yes please!
Old 30th January 2017
  #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philter View Post
I DO know better, that's why I'll do nothing of the sort! The cat is out of the bag- I never want to deal with Apple branded hardware again! OSX on Wintel hardware? Yes please!
I'm with you. If you don't need Pascal GPU support, they're perfect. (Minus the whole legality thing.)
Old 30th January 2017
  #305
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lowkey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pulsar modular View Post
It was pretty good, but the last refresh made it much harder to upgrade and removed the quad-core option. Apple shot it down themselves.
yeah, the quad i7 was/is the only model worth getting.
Old 30th January 2017
  #306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui
A bunch of stuff
We simply don't have enough US engineers in the jobs pool. That's not a political statement, just the way it is. Being able to staff his company has no more to do with politics than any other corporate statement he might make.

To bring the point back around, the more engineers Apple can hire, the more liklely it is some of 'em get placed on designing new desktops, regardless of where they come from. If they can't hire as many, guess what gets axed first?
Old 30th January 2017
  #307
Tui
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Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by brendanclarke View Post
We simply don't have enough US engineers in the jobs pool.
I find that very hard to believe. There are people here on GS who build Hackintoshes for comparatively little money that I'd be happy to buy - right now. If they can do it, Apple's engineers could, too.

I am more concerned with reports of experienced engineers leaving the company due to a lack of direction and leadership at Apple.
Old 30th January 2017
  #308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
I find that very hard to believe. There are people here on GS who build Hackintoshes for comparatively little money that I'd be happy to buy - right now. If they can do it, Apple's engineers could, too.

I am more concerned with reports of experienced engineers leaving the company due to a lack of direction and leadership at Apple.
https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2015/ar...es-and-yes.htm

The article isn't obviously biased bunk - they make it clear that some professions have a shortage and some don't. But Apple designs their own logic boards (not the same skill set as assembling a hackintosh, which I have also done), and they need EE's and developers for that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bureau of Labor Statistics
Some occupations have a shortage of qualified talent, such as nuclear and electrical engineering Ph.D.’s who are U.S. citizens; ...
The Air Force Personnel Center found staffing gaps in electrical engineering, operations research, quantitative psychology, physics, nuclear engineering, and systems engineering, specifically with regard to graduates with advanced degrees.
...
Software development skills at all degree levels were also in high demand.
I doubt that picture has changed much in 18 months. Now, it is debatable whether Apple could attract more US engineers with higher pay, better work environment etc. I'm EE and given what I've heard about them, I wouldn't want to work there (any current employees feel free to change my mind!), and I definitely think their business plan could do with more long-term perspective. I think they should build better desktops. But Cook's statement is that his business, as he sees it, is under threat. I think CEOs should be able to say that.
Old 30th January 2017
  #309
Tui
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Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by brendanclarke View Post
But Cook's statement is that his business, as he sees it, is under threat.
How so..? What did I miss?

Apple are swimming in money. If they really wanted to, they could hire just about anybody at ten times the ordinary rate.
Old 30th January 2017
  #310
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Steve Jobs claimed that the post-PC era had arrived already in 2010. This could explain some of Apple's lack of focus on MacPro/MBP/MacMini development. I still wonder when they'll make a 100% iOs based desktop PC.
Old 30th January 2017
  #311
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I went to the Apple Store Saturday which has one Mac Pro on display with a touchpad in need of recharge, so unusable. A few iMacs, more MacBooks which all look the same but with slight variations -- all far behind the vast amounts of iPads and iPhones. It looks like a Verizon store. With Apple's current direction, they will not be making a configurable desktop, nor will they be making a touchscreen laptop, both of which were available in spades over at the Microsoft Store. All adults in the Apple Store. MS store had a lot more young people, more action, more excitement. A year or two ago, the balance was the other way around. Apple is still pushing/hoping for advanced software for iOS. Who will get there first? Advanced software for iOS, or Windows 10 touchscreen experience being close enough to that found on iOS? A touchscreen MacBook would kill the hope for advanced software on iOS, so I don't think Apple will do it. A configurable desktop from a company that has started soldering RAM and gluing batteries on their laptops? I just really doubt it. I love my iMac, but I really wish I could replace the hard drive without performing surgery on my iMac. As it is, my OS boots from an external USB3 SSD drive. If I buy another one, I will know to buy with the flash drive I expect to need in a few years.
Old 31st January 2017
  #312
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zephonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by claurence View Post
All adults in the Apple Store. MS store had a lot more young people, more action, more excitement. A year or two ago, the balance was the other way around.
Interesting.

Where I live, there's always tons of people of all ages in the Apple Store, while the Microsoft Store is always deserted.
Old 31st January 2017
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zephonic View Post
Interesting.

Where I live, there's always tons of people of all ages in the Apple Store, while the Microsoft Store is always deserted.
That's the way it's been every other time I've gone (it's a rare occurrence that I go to the mall, so I hit both stores whenever I do go). May have been an aberration. But, it was also the first time in a long time I remember being interested in what they had at the Microsoft Store.
Old 31st January 2017
  #314
Quote:
Originally Posted by claurence View Post
That's the way it's been every other time I've gone (it's a rare occurrence that I go to the mall, so I hit both stores whenever I do go). May have been an aberration. But, it was also the first time in a long time I remember being interested in what they had at the Microsoft Store.
Same here - the first few times they were empty. However I went to the Microsoft store this summer and there was a linup of about 30 people waiting to try VR ( HTC vive, which was running on a PC) - and the store was packed - they had crazy large monitors on display and a bunch of really cool products. Amazing how things can turn around so fast. If Apple doesn't figure out VR soon they are in serious trouble.
Old 31st January 2017
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoff View Post
I personally think the iMac is not a good computer for photo editing - the reason being that the gorgeous screen makes photos look too good. I want a computer without a screen so I can buy a screen that is for graphics professional. Just like people recording, mining and mastering music want to use studio monitors as opposed to high-end consumer speakers that sparkle.

Spoff


"Studio" monitors are consumer speakers. They are just marketed to a different consumer. I think you mean "audiophile" high end speakers and yes, studios that track, mix and master use them.
Old 31st January 2017
  #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverb View Post
Same here - the first few times they were empty. However I went to the Microsoft store this summer and there was a linup of about 30 people waiting to try VR ( HTC vive, which was running on a PC) - and the store was packed - they had crazy large monitors on display and a bunch of really cool products. Amazing how things can turn around so fast. If Apple doesn't figure out VR soon they are in serious trouble.
It's funny how people on the couch have made predictions on the demise of Apple for the last 35 years or so.

VR is somewhat interesting, especially in a gaming application, but AR is way more useful, certainly for music.

The only scary part is the when of Apple releases and their internal evaluation of these. I think Apple can stay innovative simply because the whole company was restructured by Jobs to be the eternal startup. Unless Cook undoes this —why would he? — I think we're fine in the long run. In the short run I'm not as sure.
Old 31st January 2017
  #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
"The desktop is very strategic for us. It's unique compared to the notebook because you can pack a lot more performance in a desktop — the largest screens, the most memory and storage, a greater variety of I/O, and fastest performance. So there are many different reasons why desktops are really important, and in some cases critical, to people.

"The current generation iMac is the best desktop we have ever made and its beautiful Retina 5K display is the best desktop display in the world."

So, according to Cook, desktops are iMacs with "beautiful Retina 5K display"s, and are "in some cases critical to people."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
I'm not sure what you mean. I quoted him, verbatim.
You included a verbatim quote from him, but then you parsed two separate sentences, extracted segments from the two sentences, and then pieced them together using phrasing added by you to imply meaning and make it appear as if he said something he didn't.

You're being misleading because:
He didn't say 5k displays are critical to some people.

He did say:
1. He said desktops are important / critical to some people.
2. Then separately, he said the 5K display is the best desktop display in the world.

You managed to turn those two things into this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post

So, according to Cook, desktops are iMacs with "beautiful Retina 5K display"s, and are "in some cases critical to people."
That's not what he said, therefore the "verbatim" defense is totally weak, since that's not where the claim of misconstruing Cook's words arose from, but rather the intentionally illogical conclusion you extracted from them.
Old 31st January 2017
  #318
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
LobCity, you don't seem to know what a quote is.

quote |kwəʊt|
verb [ with obj. ]
1 repeat or copy out (words from a text or speech written or spoken by another person): I realized she was quoting passages from Shakespeare | [ no obj. ] : he quoted from the scriptures.
• repeat a statement by (someone): a military spokesman was quoted as saying that the border was now quiet.

"Repeat or copy"... See? That's what I did. Verbatim. I then focussed on parts of that quote, which is what everybody does.

Everybody, as in everyone who reads this thread and draws their own conclusions from it.

I am sorry if you find reading a full quote "misleading". You must have a hard time following newspaper articles, too.
Old 31st January 2017
  #319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise Zen Master
A drunk man stumbles at both day and night. Not every internet post needs a response.
..
Old 1st February 2017
  #320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
It's funny how people on the couch have made predictions on the demise of Apple for the last 35 years or so.
I'm not predicting their demise, I'm just saying they 'd better start making inroads with that tech because it's going to eclipse everything else in the coming years. Sony, Samsung, HTC, Oculus etc already have a significant headstart from the looks of things.
Old 1st February 2017
  #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverb View Post
I'm not predicting their demise, I'm just saying they 'd better start making inroads with that tech because it's going to eclipse everything else in the coming years. Sony, Samsung, HTC, Oculus etc already have a significant headstart from the looks of things.
You may be right, but so far I'm unimpressed with the VR offerings. Also, it's a little bit like saying Apple must get into touch screens on computers, because others are getting into this. As we've covered, they chose not to. I'd be surprised if Apple haven't looked at VR and even have a group on it.

The difference between Apple and other manufacturers have so far been that we simply have had very little or no idea on what they actually were working on. Because of the last years this may be a thing of the past. That's the scary part.

What's the point of Apple if they aren't working on the next big thing? Obviously, they can't do all big things and need to stay focused. But what on? It would seem this is a transitional technological period where the computer is changing shape. It's very frustrating to be a producer and see your tools stagnate. I can imagine three more years making music with a computer and hardware as they are now. Then what?
Old 1st February 2017
  #322
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lowkey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverb View Post
I'm not predicting their demise, I'm just saying they 'd better start making inroads with that tech because it's going to eclipse everything else in the coming years. Sony, Samsung, HTC, Oculus etc already have a significant headstart from the looks of things.
"Apple today announced financial results for the first fiscal quarter of 2017, which corresponds to the fourth calendar quarter of 2016. For the quarter, Apple posted revenue of $78.4 billion and net quarterly profit of $17.9 billion, or $3.36 per diluted share, compared to revenue of $75.9 billion and net quarterly profit of $18.4 billion, or $3.28 per diluted share, in the year-ago quarter. Both revenue and earnings per share were company records in what is traditionally Apple's strongest quarter due to the launch of new iPhone models."

5.4 million Macs sold with highest ever quarterly revenue for computer sales
Old 1st February 2017
  #323
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Mike O's Avatar
 

Apple certainly has the $ to acquire whatever technology they need should they 'get behind' (not implying they are). They have done so many times.

There is no telling what they are working on or how they will fill their new building. But it's clear they are not planning on employing less people anytime soon.
Old 1st February 2017
  #324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoff View Post
I have seen some mastering studios that have both studio monitors and high-end hifi speakers, but not ones without any studio monitors. But my experience with mastering studios is limited. My guess would be that these high end hifi speakers sound very true to the source and don't enhance the sound like Apple's iMac monitors enhance the vibrance of photos.

Does it not make sense that if a graphics monitor makes a photo look amazing that the editor is probably not going to edit it as much as they would if they saw what it really looked like?


Spoff
The reason the imac enhances the the photo is because it uses a different color space to display the colors. The new imacs use dci p3 color space which is the color space for cinemas, but our normal computers, phones, the internet, youtube etc all use srgb. This causes the colors to oversaturate on an imac in most cases, for instance when looking at web images and youtube video. Since web content is displayed in srgb. I think thats why it looks "enhanced" because it shifts the colors a bit and saturates them more.

You can always buy a monitor calibration device if you want to get more accurate color. Even then, you would want a monitor that displays the correct color space for your delivery format. Although technically dci p3 displays much more color than srgb you really only want to see as much as your delivery format. You can miss the mark by shooting for color that most displays cant pick up (or web wont display)
Old 1st February 2017
  #325
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Mike O's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kangking View Post
The reason the imac enhances the color of the photo is because it uses a different color space to display the colors. The new imacs use dci p3 color space which is the color space for cinemas, but our normal computers, phones, the internet, youtube etc all use srgb. This causes the colors to oversaturate and i think thats why it looks enhanced because it shifts the colors a bit.

You can always buy a monitor calibration device if you want to get accurate color. Even then, you would want a monitor that displays the correct color space for your delivery format. No point in editing a photo for web if your monitor is not set up for srgb, although technically dci p3 displays much more than srgb you really dont want to see the extra color as you can miss the mark by shooting for color that most displays cant pick up.
Excellent explanation. The next iMac refresh will no doubt implement multiple color spaces; similar to the Surface Studio ( sRGB, DCI-P3, and Vivid (P3-D65). Competition is good for us all!
Old 1st February 2017
  #326
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
"Apple today announced financial results for the first fiscal quarter of 2017, which corresponds to the fourth calendar quarter of 2016. For the quarter, Apple posted revenue of $78.4 billion and net quarterly profit of $17.9 billion, or $3.36 per diluted share, compared to revenue of $75.9 billion and net quarterly profit of $18.4 billion, or $3.28 per diluted share, in the year-ago quarter. Both revenue and earnings per share were company records in what is traditionally Apple's strongest quarter due to the launch of new iPhone models."

5.4 million Macs sold with highest ever quarterly revenue for computer sales
The brand still has a lot of sway - not debating that. But things can change in tech very quickly.
Old 1st February 2017
  #327
Deleted User
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverb View Post
If Apple doesn't figure out VR soon they are in serious trouble.
Apple is focused on the larger and longer term Augmented Reality.

Virtual Reality is but a stepping stone to, and will remain a smaller market than Augmented Reality.
Old 1st February 2017
  #328
qwe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4Jazz View Post
"Studio" monitors are consumer speakers. They are just marketed to a different consumer. I think you mean "audiophile" high end speakers and yes, studios that track, mix and master use them.
Those are all "labels" which can be misused by marketing.

There are many examples of "audiophile high-end" speakers which are terribly inaccurate. (Besides, "audiophiles" are "consumers"?)

OTOH, the LS3/5A (for instance) was designed by the BBC for "studio monitoring" purposes, and was also quite successful as an "audiophile" product.

"Labels" can, of course, properly used imply design tradeoffs, such as professional sound-reinforcement speakers where SPL output and reliability is more important than absolute sound quality and accuracy (e.g. bass extension vs. efficiency tradeoff.)

So simply claiming a product is a "studio monitor" is meaningless, but within the constraints of cost, size, etc., a "studio monitor" ought to be a loudspeaker designed to be accurate and suitable for critical applications.
Old 1st February 2017
  #329
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Mike O's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User View Post
Apple is focused on the larger and longer term Augmented Reality.

Virtual Reality is but a stepping stone to, and will remain a smaller market than Augmented Reality.
Thanks for pointing that out. I knew that Augmented Reality was Microsoft's focus with Hololens, but was unaware of Apple's direction.
Old 1st February 2017
  #330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User View Post
Apple is focused on the larger and longer term Augmented Reality.

Virtual Reality is but a stepping stone to, and will remain a smaller market than Augmented Reality.
Not sure about that, Augmented Reality will have some benefits, mostly for advertisers, but VR will be able to immerse people anywhere in the world and once live-streaming hits the right amount of quality it will completely change everything - events, travel, conferences, concerts, cinema, movies, sports, games etc. Given how lazy people are, making them walk around to experience things will have it's limits...

I highly suspect Iphone 8 will have VR ( and maybe some form of AR)- in fact I would be flabbergasted if it didn't.
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