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Tim Cook on Mac Desktop commitment Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 29th January 2017
  #271
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoughlan View Post
My point with the intelligence comment was not that Apple is immune to failure. As you rightly state, no company is. My point was that making product decisions for a global computer company is much more complex than the people in this thread make it out to be, and Apple's executive team is much more competent than many in this thread make them out to be. There's a lot to consider here.
I agree that there is a lot to the decision making process that we are not privy to, and that they have a lot of talented people. But for all we know these unknown items might stack in favor of a profitable pro computer yet they ignore them because they are so focused on thinness and emoji.

Or it may be like you allude to that these machines are just not going to make them any money anymore. If that is the case then they should let people buy an unsupported PC license for MacOSX. Charge something like $199 for the OS so people can legally build a hackintosh.



Spoff
Old 29th January 2017
  #272
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Q.E.D.:

http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/28/14...e-orders-apple

"In my conversations with officials here in Washington this week, I've made it clear that Apple believes deeply in the importance of immigration -- both to our company and to our nation's future."

How boneheaded is such a statement.

- He places an entire company in one political corner.
- He claims to speak on behalf of all (!) Apple employees.
- He, by definition, alienates all potential and existing Apple customers who happen to disagree with him on an issue that has nothing to do with Apple products.

- Of course, he also appears to completely misunderstand what the executive orders are all about. Does he expect to employ Syrian refugees..?

He should be fired for this memo alone.

Aren't the quadrillion political discussion threads all over the web enough? Did you really have to bring politics into this? This is a thread about Tim Cook and Apple's commitment to desktop machines.
Old 29th January 2017
  #273
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoff View Post
Or it may be like you allude to that these machines are just not going to make them any money anymore. If that is the case then they should let people buy an unsupported PC license for MacOSX. Charge something like $199 for the OS so people can legally build a hackintosh.
I would like to see this. Unfortunately two huge hurdles in the way:

(1) Licensing the OS will cheapen/damage the existing brand -- Mac computers are associated with being strong/reliable/etc, and they charge a premium for that. Once you start marrying the software with cheaper components, and people start selling $500 FauxMacs, the existing line loses a lot of its strength, it becomes harder to charge the premium (Apple Tax), and the brand is diluted.

(2) Support / feature compatibility would be an absolute nightmare. Continuity works with this mobo but not the other one, people will be dragging their PCs into Apple Stores when it's really a 3rd party hardware problem, etc.

Counterargument to this is Google/Android, but I don't really know how well they're doing and they seem to be bringing a lot of manufacturing in house (whereas they simply didn't have the capability when they started).

We'll see!
Old 29th January 2017
  #274
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
It seems you, too, are missing the point. It is Tim Cook who is wasting his - and our - time on politics.
You complained about censorship and trolling a few posts back so I was initially sensitive to that and tried to shut you down lightly. No more. Stop trying to derail this thread. Start a new one if you really need to talk about this.
Old 29th January 2017
  #275
Tui
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Perhaps I have to say it even more clearly: It is my observation that Tim Cook does not have his eyes on the ball, which is the computer and gadget company Apple, but is very much distracted by issues not related to Apple.

Try getting his attention to build better Mac Pros.
Old 29th January 2017
  #276
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
It seems you, too, are missing the point. It is Tim Cook who is wasting his - and our - time on politics.
It is you who are missing the point, and that again is that this is a thread about Tim Cook and his commitment to desktop machines. Drop the politics please.

Last edited by Spoff; 29th January 2017 at 04:26 AM.. Reason: Politeness
Old 29th January 2017
  #277
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
very much distracted by issues not related to Apple.
What world do you live in where articulating company policy regarding issues that directly impact the livelihoods of employees is not the responsibility of the CEO.

Unbelievable.
Old 29th January 2017
  #278
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
It is unbelievable to me that some people don't seem to see massive conflicts of interest and very poor business practice.

Anyway... I'll leave it at that.
Old 29th January 2017
  #279
Gear Addict
 

It makes you wonder if Tim Cook isn't just trying to take the high moral ground in national politics to distract Apple employees from the internal politics at Apple. There are rumors that things are less than harmonious there right now. But to what degree and how wide spread it is an unknown.
Old 29th January 2017
  #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoff View Post
I personally think the iMac is not a good computer for photo editing - the reason being that the gorgeous screen makes photos look too good. I want a computer without a screen so I can buy a screen that is for graphics professional. Just like people recording, mining and mastering music want to use studio monitors as opposed to high-end consumer speakers that sparkle.

Spoff
I guess you haven't been to high end mastering engineers studios? Very common to see high end hifi speakers rather than studio monitors there. Duntech B&w etc.
Old 29th January 2017
  #281
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lowkey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoff View Post
Companies full of intelligent people have failed before. By this logic companies wouldn't fail with their teams of highly intelligent people looking at things. Fact is people and companies can make mistakes, and I think Apple is making them now. I have never seen such animosity towards them as I have lately, and from people who have been with them since before they even made the first Mac.
And yet sales are up 2.4% this quarter and stock price is rising.
There has always been animosity towards Apple. I've read articles about the iPhone being a flop since the first one came out. Same with iPad. I've read 20 years of threads at Macrumors along the lines of "where's the headless consumer desktop???".
It's no surprise that some long term users are unhappy. It's like people with bands..."I like their old stuff better than their new stuff".

I personally think their prices are too high at the moment. Obviously the Mac Pro should get an update. But the iMacs, MacBook Pros and MacBooks are all great computers.

But hey if you think there are better options just buy it.
Old 29th January 2017
  #282
Tui
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
I've read 20 years of threads at Macrumors along the lines of "where's the headless consumer desktop???".
Yes, and Steve listened to his customers and now there is the Mini.

Being able to reverse course when your critics have a point is also the hallmark of a competent leader.
Old 29th January 2017
  #283
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Old 29th January 2017
  #284
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lowkey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Yes, and Steve listened to his customers and now there is the Mini.

Being able to reverse course when your critics have a point is also the hallmark of a competent leader.
LOL. You cannot be serious. Go to Macrumors and look at the complete sh!tstorm that was the Mac mini threads. OMG there's no PCI slots! OMG I can't upgrade the video card!! OMG it uses laptop components!!!

People like to romanticise Steves tenure for sure. Cube anyone??
Old 29th January 2017
  #285
Lives for gear
Tui,
Jobs 100% approved of Cook, and begged the company not to be run with some sort of "what would Steve do?" agenda. He hated that idea with a passion.
CEOs make political statements all the time, get used to it, it's certainly going to happen more often.

I'm not sure whether Apple is committed to high end desktops. To be fair, they've relied on the Xeon server chips to give them more power over all than the i7, since the i7 hasn't come out with as many cores as Xeon, and the Xeons with more cores, power etc. out now are more than the most expensive decked out Mac Pro you can buy. Until the chips see a price drop where Apple isn't spending 3K just on the chips expect only minor improvements to the Mac Pro.
Old 29th January 2017
  #286
Gear Addict
 

Angry

Steve Jobs picked Tim Cook because he knew he would grow the company and make decisions based on the bottom line. Tim Cook is basically a bean counter with a love of technology and it's worked out great so far. But he also knew Tim Cook didn't have the creative brilliance and risk taking personality Apple would eventually need in a CEO to remain insanely great. It looks to me like that time is coming up before too long.
Old 29th January 2017
  #287
Gear Nut
PC and Macs are not a niche market, as all industry is GROWING FAST. can't you see all movies, records, made all days ? each time i open itunes i see plenty of new records and movies everywhere. Can you imagine making a movie with an Ipad seriously ? It's not because timmy has no sense of culture and future he is right (plus the fact china smartphone industry is going to kill the iphone)

Everytime you go to offices, to shops you'll see what ? Pcs not ipads
everyone from the studient to the teacher, lawyer, doctor, works on pcs
tried to work (i'm not talking about music !) on my ipads it's simply impossible (can't protect your account your data no serious file system hard to use with a printer etc) and it costs price of a PC, apps are toys...
timmy knows how to manage stocks but vision he has none
he stays until he gets the pack( 2021 700 000 « free actions » on 24 aout 2021) that's all folks
that's why he is going to stay on apple and make only financial decisions.
Old 29th January 2017
  #288
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Q.E.D.:

http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/28/14...e-orders-apple

"In my conversations with officials here in Washington this week, I've made it clear that Apple believes deeply in the importance of immigration -- both to our company and to our nation's future."

How boneheaded is such a statement.

- He places an entire company in one political corner.
- He claims to speak on behalf of all (!) Apple employees.
- He, by definition, alienates all potential and existing Apple customers who happen to disagree with him on an issue that has nothing to do with Apple products.

- Of course, he also appears to completely misunderstand what the executive orders are all about. Does he expect to employ Syrian refugees..?

He should be fired for this memo alone.
Mayby the CEO´s from Twitter, Microsoft, Tesla, Google, FaceBook ect. should be fired too. They all seem to agree with Tim Cook. Everybody in this world are legitimate to express their opinion, - including CEO's. Freedom to express opinions is one of the centerpieces of democrasy.
And by the way - this has nothing to do with Apples development or no development of computers.
Old 29th January 2017
  #289
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
And yet sales are up 2.4% this quarter and stock price is rising.
There has always been animosity towards Apple. I've read articles about the iPhone being a flop since the first one came out. Same with iPad. I've read 20 years of threads at Macrumors along the lines of "where's the headless consumer desktop???".
It's no surprise that some long term users are unhappy. It's like people with bands..."I like their old stuff better than their new stuff".

I personally think their prices are too high at the moment. Obviously the Mac Pro should get an update. But the iMacs, MacBook Pros and MacBooks are all great computers.

But hey if you think there are better options just buy it.
My personal frustration is that there are no better options that legally run Mac OS X, that Apple applies NSA-like security to their Mac Pro direction when it would really help their Pro customers who own businesses plan and not worry about if their preferred platform will be around for long, and that Apple hasn't lowered the price of the out of date Mac Pro by a penny and haven't put even the most minimal upgraded components into it, making customers feel like they are getting ripped off, etc. No one likes to feel like they are being ripped off.

So I run my upgraded 2012 Mac Pro until it runs no more, or until Apple comes out with a current replacement for it. In the meantime may continue to out-innovate Apple (except in advances in thinness, which seems to drive most of Apple's design decisions these days).

Spoff
Old 29th January 2017
  #290
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
I guess you haven't been to high end mastering engineers studios? Very common to see high end hifi speakers rather than studio monitors there. Duntech B&w etc.
I have seen some mastering studios that have both studio monitors and high-end hifi speakers, but not ones without any studio monitors. But my experience with mastering studios is limited. My guess would be that these high end hifi speakers sound very true to the source and don't enhance the sound like Apple's iMac monitors enhance the vibrance of photos.

Does it not make sense that if a graphics monitor makes a photo look amazing that the editor is probably not going to edit it as much as they would if they saw what it really looked like?


Spoff
Old 29th January 2017
  #291
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoughlan View Post
Considering that's a 10% higher market share than any computer manufacturer has ever held in the modern era, and 4x what Apple currently has, you should probably go ahead and send your ideas to Cupertino...

It's very easy to sit back and say "there's room for improvement" or come up with fantastic computers that match the needs of you and your friends, but I promise you there are a ton of extremely intelligent people looking at this every day, and it's just not that simple.
How can it not be that simple when an idiot like me can build a hackintosh that's been running basically 24/7 in my commercial studio for 2 years now? It is actually fantastically simple.
Old 29th January 2017
  #292
Gear Maniac
Code:
Quote:
That's exactly my point.
Then why did you bring up the subject?
Old 29th January 2017
  #293
Deleted User
Guest
Services generate more revenue than either the Mac or the iPad with a year on year growth of 24%. It's the only Apple "product" with growth year on year. Expect services to grow and the focus to shift away from hardware.
Old 29th January 2017
  #294
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
LOL. You cannot be serious. Go to Macrumors and look at the complete sh!tstorm that was the Mac mini threads. OMG there's no PCI slots! OMG I can't upgrade the video card!! OMG it uses laptop components!!!
I have no idea what you're on about. The Mini is a monitor-less computer that came out after the G5 tower. It is exactly what many people asked for, hence its incredible popularity to this day. Nobody asked for PCI-slots in a consumer desktop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
People like to romanticise Steves tenure for sure.
I'm not one of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
Cube anyone??
The Cube was a great concept but poorly executed. How good a concept it was became apparent years later with the release of the Mini.
Old 29th January 2017
  #295
Gear Maniac
I actually agree with you in several of these aspects.
Anyways, let's return to thread topic
Old 29th January 2017
  #296
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philter View Post
How can it not be that simple when an idiot like me can build a hackintosh that's been running basically 24/7 in my commercial studio for 2 years now? It is actually fantastically simple.
Building an unsupported and illegal hackintosh is relatively simple (for someone with technical aptitude -- again, you post on Gearslutz which makes you more technically savvy than the majority of the PC purchasing population).

Making it a supported product introduces a ton of complexities and has a ton of implications on existing products and brand perception. See my later posts.

But for you and the others who think you know better, I suggest writing Apple a letter. If your ideas are really so great and simple that they can be implemented that easily they will certainly take them and we will all have the computers of our dreams in short order.
Old 29th January 2017
  #297
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Mike O's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoughlan View Post
Building an unsupported and illegal hackintosh is relatively simple (for someone with technical aptitude -- again, you post on Gearslutz which makes you more technically savvy than the majority of the PC purchasing population).

Making it a supported product introduces a ton of complexities and has a ton of implications on existing products and brand perception. See my later posts.

But for you and the others who think you know better, I suggest writing Apple a letter. If your ideas are really so great and simple that they can be implemented that easily they will certainly take them and we will all have the computers of our dreams in short order.
We get it.....your message is that it must not make sense for Apple to do so because of their brilliance/marketing strategy, etc. Since you continue to regurgitate all the reasons they can't, won't, and shouldn't ; the only conclusion that can be reached is that you don't find a need for an updated Pro and are OK with their abandonment of that market segment.

Why defend that position of a board where some users do seek such a machine?

BTW - Many people understand the marketing angle (perception, sales to MPs taking sales away from more profitable iMac, etc.). But it's not like they don't sell a Mac Pro. It just seems odd that they let it be less and less competitive.
Old 29th January 2017
  #298
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O View Post
We get it.....your message is that it must not make sense for Apple to do so because of their brilliance/marketing strategy, etc. Since you continue to regurgitate all the reasons they can't, won't, and shouldn't ; the only conclusion that can be reached is that you don't find a need for an updated Pro and are OK with their abandonment of that market segment.
I take the time to read and respond to everyone who quotes me. I think that's the polite thing to do. Unfortunately I keep seeing a lot of the same arguments, hence the "regurgitation."

If you read my posts, you'll see I've repeatedly said I'm not happy with this direction / I want a new Pro / will buy a new one if/when it was released. So I'm not sure you do "get it", because the conclusion you drew is not my position.

My position is, if Apple thinks that Mac Pros are not the future, there are reasons for them to be doing what they're doing. In that context, those reasons make sense. There's a long history of them abandoning things that they don't think make sense, people complaining, and somehow the company moves forward.

And it's really not as simple as walking and chewing gum at the same time. Major strategic pivots require major restructuring. Apple's probably having internal discussions about how long they're even going to maintain iOS and Mac OS as separate entities.

Quote:
Why defend that position of a board where some users do seek such a machine?
Just because people (again, me included) want something doesn't mean it makes sense. People seem genuinely confused as to why there hasn't been a Mac Pro update, acting like there can be no reason other than sheer incompetence.

I have a strategic hypothesis that does not revolve around incompetence, and am sharing the alternative. As I've said multiple times now, I'm not happy about this direction. I had to build a PC after exclusively using Macs for 25+ years. It's extremely annoying. I'll happily go back to a Mac tomorrow if they release a new Pro with the features I need.

But instead of thinking solely about the company catering to my needs, I removed my own interests from the situation and considered the bigger picture and realized I represent a buyer that is fairly inconsequential/not profitable in the grand scheme of things.

Quote:
BTW - Many people understand the marketing angle (perception, sales to MPs taking sales away from more profitable iMac, etc.). But it's not like they don't sell a Mac Pro. It just seems odd that they let it be less and less competitive.
It's all in how you look at it. Odd if you think that Apple wants to continue building Mac Pros. Makes total sense to phase it out if you think they don't.
Old 29th January 2017
  #299
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Mike O's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoughlan View Post
I take the time to read and respond to everyone who quotes me. I think that's the polite thing to do. Unfortunately I keep seeing a lot of the same arguments, hence the "regurgitation."

If you read my posts, you'll see I've repeatedly said I'm not happy with this direction / I want a new Pro / will buy a new one if/when it was released. So I'm not sure you do "get it", because the conclusion you drew is not my position.

My position is, if Apple thinks that Mac Pros are not the future, there are reasons for them to be doing what they're doing. In that context, those reasons make sense. There's a long history of them abandoning things that they don't think make sense, people complaining, and somehow the company moves forward.

And it's really not as simple as walking and chewing gum at the same time. Major strategic pivots require major restructuring. Apple's probably having internal discussions about how long they're even going to maintain iOS and Mac OS as separate entities.



Just because people (again, me included) want something doesn't mean it makes sense. People seem genuinely confused as to why there hasn't been a Mac Pro update, acting like there can be no reason other than sheer incompetence.

I have a strategic hypothesis that does not revolve around incompetence, and am sharing the alternative. As I've said multiple times now, I'm not happy about this direction. I had to build a PC after exclusively using Macs for 25+ years. It's extremely annoying. I'll happily go back to a Mac tomorrow if they release a new Pro with the features I need.

But instead of thinking solely about the company catering to my needs, I removed my own interests from the situation and considered the bigger picture and realized I represent a buyer that is fairly inconsequential/not profitable in the grand scheme of things.



It's all in how you look at it. Odd if you think that Apple wants to continue building Mac Pros. Makes total sense to phase it out if you think they don't.
Simply more defense of the company that can do no wrong. Paraphrasing..."They must have a legitimate reason."

Although I'm not a gamer, even a small company like Razor can make a specialized computer WITH the first touchbar (Apple innovation at work). How many people do you think Razor employs? 5? 100?

This board exists to state and yes discuss our needs. Again, why such an adamant defense of their strategy when you supposedly don't agree with it? To prove that you have read and understand the apologists across the net? Or that you took a few business classes?

The rest of us are not so stupid to not understand that Apple has a marketing direction and that there are financial considerations to building a device. We do understand that there is a 'broader plan' and they are behind in competing in the cloud. Some of us just don't agree with the plan in evidence to date. You keep implying that anyone that disagrees with their genius are imbeciles that can't comprehend the complexities of running a large organization. Offensive at best.

Some here have actually worked at the highest levels of very large companies/orgs. I own and have owned Apple stock for decades. Giving away the Pro market and the education market is insane.

OK - Regurgitation time.....let's here it again.....
Old 29th January 2017
  #300
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O View Post
Simply more defense of the company that can do no wrong. Paraphrasing..."They must have a legitimate reason."
Why do you say must when I'm saying might? I'm completely open to the possibility that I am entirely wrong about this. Huge difference. Just because I forcefully advocate for a contrary position doesn't mean I think I can't be wrong. I can be. I've said that. I would like to be. You're trying to paint me into a corner I'm not in to avoid addressing what I'm saying.

Quote:
Although I'm not a gamer, even a small company like Razor can make a specialized computer WITH the first touchbar (Apple innovation at work). How many people do you think Razor employs? 5? 100?
There's plenty of history to suggest that it's actually much easier for smaller companies to innovate and release new products than it is for a larger one, e.g. https://hbr.org/2012/09/why-big-companies-cant-innovate

Honestly I have trouble believing your statement about working at the highest levels of large companies and organizations if this comes as a surprise to you.

Quote:
This board exists to state and yes discuss our needs. Again, why such an adamant defense of their strategy when you supposedly don't agree with it? To prove that you have read and understand the apologists across the net? Or that you took a few business classes?
I defend things adamantly because weak defenses are worthless. That said, if you only want to read opinions in line with yours, you can stop reading and responding to my posts. Very easy solution.

Quote:
The rest of us are not so stupid to not understand that Apple has a marketing direction and that there are financial considerations to building a device. We do understand that there is a 'broader plan' and they are behind in competing in the cloud. Some of us just don't agree with the plan in evidence to date. You keep implying that anyone that disagrees with their genius are imbeciles that can't comprehend the complexities of running a large organization. Offensive at best.
First, you're speaking for the group in a way that is directly contrary to the posts that I've been reading. Lots of people saying there is no plan, no vision, and that releasing new Mac Pros is as easy as snapping fingers. That's what I'm responding to.

Second, you seem to be taking a lot of what I say very personally, which is kind of curious to me. I'm sorry if you're offended, not my intention. I do think there's a lot of ungrounded fantasy thinking in here.

Quote:
Some here have actually worked at the highest levels of very large companies/orgs. I own and have owned Apple stock for decades. Giving away the Pro market and the education market is insane.
I disagree that giving away the high end audio/video Pro market is insane. I really don't think the number of people it serves is that large, nor is it that profitable. And by all accounts they've been giving it away and their stock has been rising, so I'm not sure what your reference to stock ownership has to do with anything?

I agree that giving away the entirety of the education market is insane. I don't think the Mac Pro currently serves the bulk of the education market. I do think iMacs/MacBooks/tablets are primed to serve the lower end/majority of that market. I don't expect those to go away in the near future.

Quote:
OK - Regurgitation time.....let's here it again.....
Do you want me to stop responding to you? Stop quoting me / tell me not to and I will. (Happily, because this is getting old). Not doing myself any favors by continuing with you, I just think it's rude to not address someone who has called your attention.
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