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Clock Question for users(10M?) and a Burl B2 question Digital Converters
Old 19th December 2016
  #1
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Rea's Avatar
 

Clock Question for users(10M?) and a Burl B2 question

Hey!

Ive been in a mad converter shootout the past 3-4 days.

Apogee Symphony I/O ver 1
Orion 32 Ver 1
Burl B2 ADC

Ive been using Apogee for years so i am very familiar. It has a low mid and bass boost, especially around 40-50Hz, and the stereo and depth are better then the Orion. Space is, relative to Orion, wide and locations of sounds in the field, both left right and "deep" in are more separate and distinct.

The Burl, as far as AD, is only slightly more detailed in moderate level, but becomes noticeably better then the two others when pushed hard and trimmed down after hitting the Xformers.


However, all 3, when A/B'd against the console's mix bus in real time, pre A/D conversion, sound a bit "soft", less 3D and narrow.

I belive i can recreate the Burl effect with other transformer based gear+an attenuator, since i did not feel a big difference at levels that are not pushing the transformers, so i am assuming the transformers are doing most of the "excitement" with the ability to trim down in order to prevent clip, However, i do not know how to remedy the loss of spacial placement of instruments and presence that all 3 converters lose when i A/B them against the monitored mix directly from the mix bus(mixing on SSL AWS).


So now i can get to the point:

1. Would you know from experience, not from reading, that a clock such as the 10M can remedy the problems mentioned?
2. Do you think that indeed the Burl's edge is at the Transformers rather then the converters?

Im trying to figure out if running my mix bus to a pair of Transformers elsewhere in my existing gear collection and instead investing in a 10M clock would solve more issues?

Thanks!

Last edited by Rea; 19th December 2016 at 09:28 AM..
Old 19th December 2016
  #2
Lives for gear
I would look at Black lion word clocks to save a few bucks. It does not sound like money is the issue at all, but it's difficult for me to believe the 10K clock is better than the current Black lion offerings. I could be wrong.

If you are in the testing converters mode, I would also test word clocks and each set of converters.

I would even expect some converters to work better with the internal work clocks as the master.

In my case with an SSL alpha link, the external word clock made a huge improvement in sound quality. Once I hooked up the clock, it was the first time my converters sounded like a tape machine to me rather than a computer.
Old 19th December 2016
  #3
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deuc647's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rea View Post
Hey!

Ive been in a mad converter shootout the past 3-4 days.

Apogee Symphony I/O ver 1
Orion 32 Ver 1
Burl B2 ADC

Ive been using Apogee for years so i am very familiar. It has a low mid and bass boost, especially around 40-50Hz, and the stereo and depth are better then the Orion. Space is, relative to Orion, wide and locations of sounds in the field, both left right and "deep" in are more separate and distinct.

The Burl, as far as AD, is only slightly more detailed in moderate level, but becomes noticeably better then the two others when pushed hard and trimmed down after hitting the Xformers.


However, all 3, when A/B'd against the console's mix bus in real time, pre A/D conversion, sound a bit "soft", less 3D and narrow.

I belive i can recreate the Burl effect with other transformer based gear+an attenuator, since i did not feel a big difference at levels that are not pushing the transformers, so i am assuming the transformers are doing most of the "excitement" with the ability to trim down in order to prevent clip, However, i do not know how to remedy the loss of spacial placement of instruments and presence that all 3 converters lose when i A/B them against the monitored mix directly from the mix bus(mixing on SSL AWS).


So now i can get to the point:

1. Would you know from experience, not from reading, that a clock such as the 10M can remedy the problems mentioned?
2. Do you think that indeed the Burl's edge is at the Transformers rather then the converters?

Im trying to figure out if running my mix bus to a pair of Transformers elsewhere in my existing gear collection and instead investing in a 10M clock would solve more issues?

Thanks!
If you are trying to capture the mix better, why not look at a higher class of converters? Orion and burl are good but there are definitely better options.
Old 19th December 2016
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deuc647 View Post
If you are trying to capture the mix better, why not look at a higher class of converters? Orion and burl are good but there are definitely better options.
This was my first thought as well.
Old 20th December 2016
  #5
Lives for gear
 
Hamburg58's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rea View Post
Hey!

Ive been in a mad converter shootout the past 3-4 days.

Apogee Symphony I/O ver 1
Orion 32 Ver 1
Burl B2 ADC

Ive been using Apogee for years so i am very familiar. It has a low mid and bass boost, especially around 40-50Hz, and the stereo and depth are better then the Orion. Space is, relative to Orion, wide and locations of sounds in the field, both left right and "deep" in are more separate and distinct.

The Burl, as far as AD, is only slightly more detailed in moderate level, but becomes noticeably better then the two others when pushed hard and trimmed down after hitting the Xformers.


However, all 3, when A/B'd against the console's mix bus in real time, pre A/D conversion, sound a bit "soft", less 3D and narrow.

I belive i can recreate the Burl effect with other transformer based gear+an attenuator, since i did not feel a big difference at levels that are not pushing the transformers, so i am assuming the transformers are doing most of the "excitement" with the ability to trim down in order to prevent clip, However, i do not know how to remedy the loss of spacial placement of instruments and presence that all 3 converters lose when i A/B them against the monitored mix directly from the mix bus(mixing on SSL AWS).


So now i can get to the point:

1. Would you know from experience, not from reading, that a clock such as the 10M can remedy the problems mentioned?
2. Do you think that indeed the Burl's edge is at the Transformers rather then the converters?

Im trying to figure out if running my mix bus to a pair of Transformers elsewhere in my existing gear collection and instead investing in a 10M clock would solve more issues?

Thanks!
You'll never get the sound out of a converter you hear on your mix bus. That's just where we are with the technology. Every year or so it gets a little closer but that definition isn't going to happen with ANY converter out there right now.
Old 20th December 2016
  #6
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Rea's Avatar
 

Whats the closest i can get to my mix bus sound for under 6g per stereo input? Lavry Gold? Forsell?
Old 20th December 2016
  #7
Lives for gear
 
deuc647's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rea View Post
Whats the closest i can get to my mix bus sound for under 6g per stereo input? Lavry Gold? Forsell?
I dont want to sound like a broken record but Qes Labs PAD-2 is phenomenal. Its an italian company but I took a chance and ordered it after talking to the designer/builder back n forth. Seriously impressive how it preserves everything. nother guy on here Ohiogreg just got one as well and he is in love with it too. It doesnt have the hype train the burl b2 has behind it but people who own Qes Labs equipment wont part with it. Mine was around 2K. PM me so i can talk to you about it. Dont wanna bog down your thread.
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