The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Help please trying to select right Interface for Drums Single-Channel Preamps
Old 25th September 2016
  #1
Here for the gear
 
mikebxb's Avatar
Help please trying to select right Interface for Drums

I appeal to you more experienced Digital guys and gals.
My needs.--- sell off live and analog gear for the right Audio Interface to connect to a mid 2012 Macbook Pro for recording my drums or possibly submitting them live If need.
My Equipment - already have mics, cords and 30+ years experience as a pro & semi pro drumming musician.
Monday I will receive a TASCAM 16 x 08 ( I need 7 drum inputs , a vocal and a way to send a mono or stereo music feed to practice to.

I decided on the Tascam as it has many inputs and the price. Also I'm seeing persons drop the studio live boards and presonus firewire ai's get dropped.
Now I'm learning about latency btw ( i intend to use and own Logic X)
Right now I'm looking again at Firewire (thats thunderbolt compatible with el Capitan thru Firewire)
Too my Question is.... given the current owned equipment and for mostly home use. Should I keep the Tascam 16x08 USB or spend a little more and get a Focusright Scarlet 18i20 USB or Focusright Safire Pro 40??????????
USB thats here to stay or firewire with thunderbolt adapter?? the Focus rights are both the same price both seem to offer better compatibility than Presonus.. So Please Help USB or Firewire?????? Your thoughts????
Old 25th September 2016
  #2
Lives for gear
I'm not sure what kind of Mics you have but the Tascam is better equipped to handle a more varied range of microphones (dynamic/condenser/ribbon etc.) than the Focusrite or most mid or lower priced interfaces. As far as latency goes I wouldn't worry about it too much in your case if your just recording your drums. Latency comes into play if you intend to record with live plugins, or triggering virtual instruments such as drum samples via drum pads and that sort of thing. Overdubs could be a bit of a problem with latency lag but as long as you monitor through your interfaces mixer rather than through Logic you'll be fine. In short, keep the Tascam unless you plan on spending a lot more money or if you experience driver problems.
Old 25th September 2016
  #3
Here for the gear
 
mikebxb's Avatar
thank you
i was on the right track... however my daughter is now singing ( i know ) so I bought an AKG C214 for her voice an my OH
macbook pro 2012. o would i stay with USB or go firewire focusrite?
Old 25th September 2016
  #4
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebxb View Post
thank you
i was on the right track... however my daughter is now singing ( i know ) so I bought an AKG C214 for her voice an my OH
macbook pro 2012. o would i stay with USB or go firewire focusrite?
Nice Condenser Mic for Vocals. What about your Drum Mics? Are they a mix of Condenser and Dynamic? Do you have a Ribbon mic or plan on getting any of these for your drums?

The Focusrite has better ad/da converters and Mic Preamps and moderately better latency but the Mic Preamps only have enough gain for Condenser Mics.

Personally I'd avoid FireWire as it's a dying protocol with less and less support. For Focusrite I'd go with the Scarlett range.
Old 25th September 2016
  #5
Here for the gear
 
mikebxb's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alndln View Post
Nice Condenser Mic for Vocals. What about your Drum Mics? Are they a mix of Condenser and Dynamic? Do you have a Ribbon mic or plan on getting any of these for your drums?

The Focusrite has better ad/da converters and Mic Preamps and moderately better latency but the Mic Preamps only have enough gain for Condenser Mics.

Personally I'd avoid FireWire as it's a dying protocol with less and less support. For Focusrite I'd go with the Scarlett range.
on drums the mics for now. C214 OH, CAD small condenser on hat, Senn e 609s toms , 57 snare top -e 609 snare bottom (phase reversed) D112 in kick
Old 25th September 2016
  #6
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebxb View Post
on drums the mics for now. C214 OH, CAD small condenser on hat, Senn e 609s toms , 57 snare top -e 609 snare bottom (phase reversed) D112 in kick
You mostly have Dynamic low output Mics which are great for drums, but most audio interface preamps like those in the Focusrite are more geared toward Condenser high gain Mics. You could get the Cloudlifter for each Mic at around a cost of $149.00 each in order to use the Focusrite.

Cloud Microphones Cloudlifter CL-1 | Sweetwater.com

Or just get the Tascam and be done with it. Your call.

Last edited by Alndln; 25th September 2016 at 11:11 PM..
Old 26th September 2016
  #7
Here for the gear
 
mikebxb's Avatar
I'm researching the crap out of the Scarlet preamp inputs being a weakness with dynamic mics. but if so why not get an 8 channel Preamp strip (Octipre???) and the a 2 ch USB Audio Interface with both opti or ADAT linked for 10 channels???? your thoughts?????
Old 26th September 2016
  #8
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebxb View Post
I'm researching the crap out of the Scarlet preamp inputs being a weakness with dynamic mics.
Most Preamps on sub $500.00 Preamps on Audio interfaces don't have the proper gain for Dynamic Mics.

Quote:
but if so why not get an 8 channel Preamp strip (Octipre???) and the a 2 ch USB Audio Interface with both opti or ADAT linked for 10 channels???? your thoughts?????
Most 2 Ch interfaces with an Optical SPDIF input is limited to 2 channels and only 2 channels of an Octapre will show up. However, I do know of one that will allow all 8 channels which is the Audient ID14 which goes for around $299.00. Great sounding interface by the way. Audient also makes a great sounding 8 ch Preamp with Adat out called the ASP8 but it's a bit on the expensive side.
Old 26th September 2016
  #9
Here for the gear
 
mikebxb's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alndln View Post
Most Preamps on sub $500.00 Preamps on Audio interfaces don't have the proper gain for Dynamic Mics.

Most 2 Ch interfaces with an Optical SPDIF input is limited to 2 channels and only 2 channels of an Octapre will show up. However, I do know of one that will allow all 8 channels which is the Audient ID14 which goes for around $299.00. Great sounding interface by the way. Audient also makes a great sounding 8 ch Preamp with Adat out called the ASP8 but it's a bit on the expensive side.
Interesting.. Thanks. I started looking at the USB Mixers but you are right on them for sure. everyone griping about having to crank up the gain noise and all to get level in the software with dynamic mics.. so i settled back on the Scarlet Pro 40. But using your advice maybe a used Focusrite OctoPre MkII (499 new) or ART TubeOpto 8 (449) and one of those Audient ID14 (299) combined would get me there??? your thoughts again? Just need to verify that those units will connect thru ADAT/opti with ease and no negative effects...
Old 26th September 2016
  #10
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebxb View Post
Interesting.. i settled back on the Scarlet Pro 40. But using your advice maybe a used Focusrite OctoPre MkII (499 new) or ART TubeOpto 8 (449) and one of those Audient ID14 (299) combined would get me there??? your thoughts again? Just need to verify that those units will connect thru ADAT/opti with ease and no negative effects...
The Scarlet Pro 40 is an 8 ch audio interface and the Audient ID14 is a 2ch interface and they both can expand to 8 channels via adat, but you can't use both audio interfaces together so it's either the Focusrite or the Audient but not both together. So one or the other will definitely work with an 8 ch expansion via adat. No problem.
Old 26th September 2016
  #11
Here for the gear
 
mikebxb's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alndln View Post
The Scarlet Pro 40 is an 8 ch audio interface and the Audient ID14 is a 2ch interface and they both can expand to 8 channels via adat, but you can't use both audio interfaces together so it's either the Focusrite or the Audient but not both together. So one or the other will definitely work with an 8 ch expansion via adat. No problem.
methinks a a Focusrite Octopre MKII for 8 great preamps for my dynamics adapted to an Audient iD14 will give me the 10 top notch pre amps to record usb. AND use live on occasion ....btw i still have the 1604 VLZ Pro board.. how good are those pres compared to the scarlet 18i20 ..I COULD run 8 mics thru the mackie and use the 8 direct outs (prefader) to a scarlett 18i20 usb. would that solve my weak pre for dynamic mic issue??
thanks for all your good info..
Old 26th September 2016
  #12
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebxb View Post
Interesting.. ...everyone griping about having to crank up the gain noise and all to get level in the software with dynamic mics.....Just need to verify that those units will connect thru ADAT/opti with ease and no negative effects...
The griping about cranking up gain generally comes from recordists working with soft sources like finger picking acoustic guitar at a distance.

In my experience, dynamic microphones on drums need small amounts of gain (25dB or so) which is not a challenge to even the most stingy preamps. I recently observed that the preamp channel for the ribbon microphone that I was using on the side of the snare was at 11dB gain.

Regarding ADAT inputs, it has been 'set and forget' for me; no negative effects.
Old 26th September 2016
  #13
Here for the gear
 
mikebxb's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaGary View Post
The griping about cranking up gain generally comes from recordists working with soft sources like finger picking acoustic guitar at a distance.

In my experience, dynamic microphones on drums need small amounts of gain (25dB or so) which is not a challenge to even the most stingy preamps. I recently observed that the preamp channel for the ribbon microphone that I was using on the side of the snare was at 11dB gain.

Regarding ADAT inputs, it has been 'set and forget' for me; no negative effects.
I'm more confused than a new baby at a free mammogram clinic..
I just want 10 -12 channels thru something that I can get a good drum sound thru to my USB or Firewire into my mid 2012 MB Pro. I might occasionally take this unit to submix my drums when sub in a band with small mixers. (standalone and yes it'll be dry signals If I don't run thru DAW but at least i'll have some level. and I might only use it live for kick, hat & my bgv's) What about rather than the audient iD14 (great reviews) an Octopre with a Safire Pro 26. run the dynamic mics thru the octopre and the condensers thru the Saffire????? I know its firewire but I can adapt to thunderbolt input on Mac. AND are the OCTOPRE Preamps really THAT much better than the ones on the Safire Pro 26?
Old 26th September 2016
  #14
Lives for gear
 

I know it can be confusing, but I also don't agree with previous poster with regards to insufficient sensitivity for dynamics.
For your described recording, there shouldn't be problems with getting usable drum sound via dynamics through any of mentioned interfaces.. and IMHO it's just unnecessary derail in this basic discussion.

At first post, you've said, Tascam 16x8 is on the way.. Cool, I'd stick with that for the start.. possibly you can return that and swap for something else, if you find it won't fit to your needs.

As mentioned before, latency during recording of live drums isn't an issue, because you can create low-latency mix to your headphones, because you can use DSP mixer at Tascam interface. It has one stereo bus, which you can route to headphones.. and you can put compressor, 4-band EQ and polarity flip to every input fader.
http://tascam.com/content/images/uni..._app_mixer.jpg
All that without any delay caused by DAW roundtrip.

I'd try that originally intended Tascam first, see if that works and then speculate about further alternatives.

Michal
Old 27th September 2016
  #15
Here for the gear
 
mikebxb's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
I know it can be confusing, but I also don't agree with previous poster with regards to insufficient sensitivity for dynamics.
For your described recording, there shouldn't be problems with getting usable drum sound via dynamics through any of mentioned interfaces.. and IMHO it's just unnecessary derail in this basic discussion.

At first post, you've said, Tascam 16x8 is on the way.. Cool, I'd stick with that for the start.. possibly you can return that and swap for something else, if you find it won't fit to your needs.

As mentioned before, latency during recording of live drums isn't an issue, because you can create low-latency mix to your headphones, because you can use DSP mixer at Tascam interface. It has one stereo bus, which you can route to headphones.. and you can put compressor, 4-band EQ and polarity flip to every input fader.
http://tascam.com/content/images/uni..._app_mixer.jpg
All that without any delay caused by DAW roundtrip.

I'd try that originally intended Tascam first, see if that works and then speculate about further alternatives.

Michal
thanks... I passed on the TASCAM and got the Scarlett 18i20. The preamps will be a non issue ..My dynamic mics work just fine for home recording. ( Thank GAWD I didn't pony up for the unneeded Octopre. However, I AM limited by 8 inputs for practice's sake as I have to give up a channel for mono playalong music as I Can NOT get a iPad / iPhone/ or even a receiver to play anything thru either the S?PDIF or Optical inputs. what a shame.
i'm happy and disappointed same time
Old 27th September 2016
  #16
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebxb View Post
However, I AM limited by 8 inputs for practice's sake as I have to give up a channel for mono playalong music as I Can NOT get a iPad / iPhone/ or even a receiver to play anything thru either the S?PDIF or Optical inputs. what a shame.
i'm happy and disappointed same time


Next time, please try to better describe, what you've tried..

Receiver probably won't play anything to 18i20, because it is, well receiver and its SPDIF/TosLink connector there is likely an input.
iPad, iPhone headphone jack doesn't carry digital output signal. So you can't convert that from analog to optical using some simple adapter cable.

You have several other options with your phone/table.
- Scarlett 18i20 works as iOS audio device.. if you connect it via Camera Connection Adapter to your iPad.
https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-...ace-to-an-iPad
Lightning to USB Camera Adapter - Apple

- if Scarlett is still connected to your Mac during your playalongs and remote control of playback from your drummer position will be nice, then you can remotely control iTunes or Logic Pro X via their respective remote apps for iOS.
https://itunes.apple.com/cz/app/itun...284417350?mt=8
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/logi...638394624?mt=8

- if you really want additional analog inputs, then you can get either small unbalanced A/D converter
https://www.amazon.co.uk/LINDY-Analo.../dp/B002AL4XVO
In this case you'd connect that via SPDIF cable to 18i20 and set the SPDIF input as a clock source, sample rate will be fixed to 48k.
Or if you generally feel, more input would be nice to have, then you can add some 8ch ADAT converter like Behringer ADA8200.

Good luck!,

Michal
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump