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How to sound like Miles? 60s recording / playback chain emulation Dual-Channel Preamps
Old 5th July 2016
  #1
Gear Nut
 
classic86's Avatar
 

How to sound like Miles? 60s recording / playback chain emulation

Hey Guys!

I wonder if it's possible to recreate the sound of old tape/tv recordings, like this one of Miles Davis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJq3j4rA0o0

I know tons of tape or vinyl emulation plugins, but not a single one comes even close to what is going on with the audio in this video. That incredibly thick midrange sound, is there a way to recreate it with a simple tool?

Thanks in advance!



EDIT

Here you find a quick mono mix from a random multitrack I found on one of my backup harddrives. Must be a student group or whatsoever.. I used 5 channels: OH, bass, keys (di), sax, trumpet. No eq, no compression.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/79683640/jazz.wav

Feel free to run this audio file through your 60s chain and post the result here!

Last edited by classic86; 8th July 2016 at 02:48 AM.. Reason: Link added
Old 5th July 2016
  #2
Lives for gear
 
worm's Avatar
 

VHS
Old 5th July 2016
  #3
What a lineup - thanks for posting that video!

About time someone makes a plugin based solely on "cheap" tape recorders...perhaps convolution can help as well, anyone know of some impulses in that category?
Old 5th July 2016
  #4
Gear Head
Have you tried the Nebula R2R libraries? There are a couple of really old tape machines in there (1950s Lafayette & Wollensok) that might do the job. Made by CD Soundmaster.
Old 5th July 2016
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by classic86 View Post
Hey Guys!

I wonder if it's possible to recreate the sound of old tape/tv recordings, like this one of Miles Davis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJq3j4rA0o0

I know tons of tape or vinyl emulation plugins, but not a single one comes even close to what is going on with the audio in this video. That incredibly thick midrange sound, is there a way to recreate it with a simple tool?

Thanks in advance!
you might to try a different approach start with the analog console then add a mic pulgin , i use antares mic royer r-121 also i use the parallax room plugin
Old 6th July 2016
  #6
Gear Maniac
 

...also consider the entire recording environment, mic/s placement, type, room size/acoustics, etc...I did a ton of FOH jazz in the mid 70/80's and what the artists/performers wanted was a very particular "not amped/live club" sound...they didn't know how to get it, but they knew when they heard it...lots and lots of different tricks to get there, and the venue/rooms had a lot to do with it...these were rooms/theatres from 800 to stock pavilions of around 2600...good times...and the players were unbelievable...hth.../s~
Old 6th July 2016
  #7
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blackwell99's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveGS View Post
...also consider the entire recording environment, mic/s placement, type, room size/acoustics, etc...I did a ton of FOH jazz in the mid 70/80's and what the artists/performers wanted was a very particular "not amped/live club" sound...they didn't know how to get it, but they knew when they heard it...lots and lots of different tricks to get there, and the venue/rooms had a lot to do with it...these were rooms/theatres from 800 to stock pavilions of around 2600...good times...and the players were unbelievable...hth.../s~
Good post.
Old 6th July 2016
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwell99 View Post
Good post.
Good post apart from the comment about there being lots of tricks but then not sharing any of them LOL!

Give us some tricks, Steve!
Old 6th July 2016
  #9
Gear Nut
 
classic86's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rich d View Post
Have you tried the Nebula R2R libraries? There are a couple of really old tape machines in there (1950s Lafayette & Wollensok) that might do the job. Made by CD Soundmaster.
Thanks Rich, check them out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
you might to try a different approach start with the analog console then add a mic pulgin , i use antares mic royer r-121 also i use the parallax room plugin
Hm. I tried to emulate this sound with preamp/tape-plugins, eq, etc., but I think something much more drastic needs to be applied here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveGS View Post
...also consider the entire recording environment, mic/s placement, type, room size/acoustics, etc... [...] and the venue/rooms had a lot to do with it...~
Hi Steve. I think, the mics and room have almost nothing to do with the sound on the video I posted. They look like D12s, but even with 57s or M49s the sound would be - imho - almost the same.
I'm talking about the harmonic content, the low- and highpass, and heavy tape compression (even print-through!) of the audio material. The things that happened between the output of the mixing desk in the 60s and playback today.
This is the part that fascinates me. And also the part I cannot recreate with the digital tools I know.
Old 6th July 2016
  #10
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by classic86 View Post
Thanks Rich, check them out.



Hm. I tried to emulate this sound with preamp/tape-plugins, eq, etc., but I think something much more drastic needs to be applied here.



Hi Steve. I think, the mics and room have almost nothing to do with the sound on the video I posted. They look like D12s, but even with 57s or M49s the sound would be - imho - almost the same.
I'm talking about the harmonic content, the low- and highpass, and heavy tape compression (even print-through!) of the audio material. The things that happened between the output of the mixing desk in the 60s and playback today.
This is the part that fascinates me. And also the part I cannot recreate with the digital tools I know.
one more thing you do have distortion , so maybe this is what is needed ia a saturator plugin
Old 6th July 2016
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

...mmmmm...sorry about no details...been awhile and every act/venue was different...with regarding the tape audio source "files" characteristics...you would have to know the video recorder used at the time and whether or not it was pre/post the on-air broadcast limiter/s...in about the same time frame I produced the audio for a live TV show ala "Saturday Night". I did simultaneous "mixes" for tv broadcast, a "sister" FM radio station, and time synced audio tape, different submix/processing for each...they all "sounded" different...so my guess would be to start with the "tv" processing...Cheers~.../s~
Old 7th July 2016
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Similar to what others have said, that performance looks like standard video tech of the day.... live mix of the mics (via small mixer rather than house system) to a mono output routed to the mono input of the video camera, simultaneously routed to phone lines to whatever station had the actual Ampex VR-1000B machine (etc). It's possible there was a video truck outside the hall, but unlikely for those days. By the time the 2" b&w videotape was broadcast, the video/sound go through standard compression methods of the day (probably again, phone lines), and eventually other broadcast circuitry.

At the least, I'd say to set up some mics through various small mixers and record directly into a circa 1962 video camera direct connected to a video mixer etc and then direct to an old VR-1000B. And then analyze what's happening. Hey, you'd have video too.

Needless to say, good luck finding the equipment. And also needless to say, good luck waiting for u-he or waves etc to recreate that kind of thing for a plug.

Someone mentioned earlier doing passes into a vhs recorder. That would maybe do something in the neighborhood if you recorded the instruments into a really old tapco mixer or something, routed to the inputs of a vhs machine, record the pass, and then purposely real-time that tape output into the audio input of a second vhs machine (mixer in between to add a bit of compression) and then do that back and forth a few times between tapes to grunge stuff up in a way audio recorders wouldn't do. It's just a random thought.... I don't necessarily think the idea would get the sonic feel of the Miles videotape.
Old 7th July 2016
  #13
Lives for gear
 

I would recreate that sound by first EQing out the frequencies that aren't there. Then I'd dirty up the frequencies that are left and smear the sound until it sounds old. Easier done then said, good luck!
Old 7th July 2016
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoodle View Post
Needless to say, good luck finding the equipment. And also needless to say, good luck waiting for u-he or waves etc to recreate that kind of thing for a plug.
Maybe, everything in mono, a good EQ and Satin from u-he would take you not so far from this type of sound.
Old 7th July 2016
  #15
Gear Nut
 

Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by diogo_c View Post
What a lineup - thanks for posting that video!

About time someone makes a plugin based solely on "cheap" tape recorders...perhaps convolution can help as well, anyone know of some impulses in that category?
Actually, Speakerphone by Audio Ease does exactly that. Only problem is that it's very expensive
Old 7th July 2016
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel S View Post
Actually, Speakerphone by Audio Ease does exactly that. Only problem is that it's very expensive
Yeah, Speakerphone does that and a lot more but that price...
Old 7th July 2016
  #17
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worm's Avatar
 

cupwise make some nice dirty tape/cassette based libraries for nebula, could be worth a look
Old 8th July 2016
  #18
Gear Nut
 
classic86's Avatar
 

Hey,

I've added a short clip in the first post. Would be awesome to compare the results if everyone runs the audio through his/her 60s chain and posts the result here.

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