The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Interface with 200 stereo outputs Audio Interfaces
Old 23rd June 2016
  #1
Interface with 200 stereo outputs

Hey there.. Im wondering if there is an interface with atleast 200 stereo outputs? does this exist?
Old 23rd June 2016
  #2
Lives for gear
 
old ghost's Avatar
 

I'm really curious what someone could ever need 200 outputs for.
Old 23rd June 2016
  #3
Maybe some installation setups? Art projects, or even running audio routing at things like theme parks (probably not from DAW, but digital routing setups).

Pretty sure there'll be a MADI solution though.
Old 23rd June 2016
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Monkey Man's Avatar
 

MOTU AVB can do 512 I/Os I think, with around 1ms latency up to around 1km, IIRC.

Obviously you'd need to construct a network of multiple interfaces; that's what the AVB spec is for.

Somehow I doubt there's a 400-output-jack interface on the market. If there were, I'd be surprised if there were many takers. Having that many analogue(?) feeds from a single physical location would surely be hugely impractical when compared to the network I referred to above IMHO, especially if, as might be the case in an installation such as has been referred to, destinations are spread across a sizeable area.
Old 23rd June 2016
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Maybe some installation setups? Art projects, or even running audio routing at things like theme parks (probably not from DAW, but digital routing setups).

Pretty sure there'll be a MADI solution though.
What exactly is MADI? thank you..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
MOTU AVB can do 512 I/Os I think, with around 1ms latency up to around 1km, IIRC.

Obviously you'd need to construct a network of multiple interfaces; that's what the AVB spec is for.

Somehow I doubt there's a 400-output-jack interface on the market. If there were, I'd be surprised if there were many takers. Having that many analogue(?) feeds from a single physical location would surely be hugely impractical when compared to the network I referred to above IMHO, especially if, as might be the case in an installation such as has been referred to, destinations are spread across a sizeable area.
Ok cheers for that one.. Ill check out that Motu set up..

End of the day I need about 100 - 200 individual speakers running different sounds continuously looping.. Thought an interface would be the obvious answer instead of 200 ipods playing - right haha
Old 23rd June 2016
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shephurd View Post
What exactly is MADI? thank you..



Ok cheers for that one.. Ill check out that Motu set up..

End of the day I need about 100 - 200 individual speakers running different sounds continuously looping.. Thought an interface would be the obvious answer instead of 200 ipods playing - right haha
LOL

Yep. Check 'em out, mate.
Old 23rd June 2016
  #7
i just noticed the amount of monkey in this thread. is this zoo protest? haha
Old 23rd June 2016
  #8
Maybe it'll be cheaper to run 60 cheap laptops/pads with a cheap 8 channel interface
Old 23rd June 2016
  #9
The RME HDSPe MADI FX and its USB3 counterpart MADIFace XT both have 192 ins and outs, mono.
You can cascade 2 MADI FX cards, but you will need a decent system which is well tuned, as the driver performance (not the PCI bus) will suffer from so many outputs.

But if you have up to 200 speakers, the signal would be mono, correct. So one card offers 194 outputs total, 192 through MADI and 2 through AES/EBU. You'll need a small fortune to get converters for that.
Old 23rd June 2016
  #10
a Dante system would work too. What is MADI? a digital audio standard..google it!

Talking of linking multiple systems, you could look at multiple Pro Tools TDM rigs synced together. It's the way they get massive IO counts for scoring stages...HD1 can do 32o, so HD3 can do 96outs (3 192s with 16outs each). Relatively cheap these days compared to MADI compatible converters...sync em together with a pair of Sync IOs and you could do 192io @ 48k cheap-ish.
Old 23rd June 2016
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
a Dante system would work too. What is MADI? a digital audio standard..google it!

Talking of linking multiple systems, you could look at multiple Pro Tools TDM rigs synced together. It's the way they get massive IO counts for scoring stages...HD1 can do 32o, so HD3 can do 96outs (3 192s with 16outs each). Relatively cheap these days compared to MADI compatible converters...sync em together with a pair of Sync IOs and you could do 192io @ 48k cheap-ish.
For Dante you need multiple systems. 128 channels max.
Old 23rd June 2016
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Fairlight is king of the hill for high track counts including being able to work at multiple HD video resolutions and audio sampling rates at the same time however it's very specialized configurations at a very high price. Due to that high price they have very little market share as many post houses have gone as cheap as they can get away with. Fairlight had a CC-1 card that did 192 physical I/O (via Madi) which you could use multiple cards and their newer CC-2 card does full DSP for 1000 channels but has physical I/O for 100 channels (again you can use multiple cards). Here is a Gearslutz thread on that card: CC-2 - Fairlight's Next Generation Audio Engine with over 1000 Channels The latest from Fairlight is a modular rack card in frame configuration where each card handles less I/O but you can have far more cards and there are many different cards for more specific I/O.

Madi will do over 200 I/O with multiple PCI / PCIe cards in a single computer. You will need to add converters that have Madi I/O or use digital format converter boxes between the converters and Madi cards which add latency because of the extra digital steps.

That many channels of converters will likely be a major cost. There are strategies to lessen that count via mixers / submixers. Please post much more detail about your specific needs / application to get better USABLE answers.
Old 23rd June 2016
  #13
Lives for gear
 
cavern's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
You'll need a small fortune to get converters for that.
And 200 speakers.
Old 23rd June 2016
  #14
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
how large is the space ?? can you Zone this ?? bring it down to manageable 32 in one location ?? so 32outs x 6 locations, gets you 192 outputs ..
Old 23rd June 2016
  #15
Lives for gear
 
JCBigler's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by shephurd View Post
Hey there.. Im wondering if there is an interface with atleast 200 stereo outputs? does this exist?
Meyer Sound's D-Mitri system will do up to 288 inputs, 288 internal busses and 288 outputs. Runs on AVB. You would need the DCM-4 Matrix processor and a tone of i/o boxes. Quite expensive, but they are used on large Broadway shows and most of the Las Vegas Cirque du Soleil shows, or the older version which was LCS.

I have heard rumors that D-Mitri 2 may be capable of routing up to 720 inputs, busses and outputs. But no word on a time frame.
Old 23rd June 2016
  #16
Lives for gear
 
JCBigler's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavern View Post
And 200 speakers.
Cirque du Soleil KA at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas has over 3,800 speakers.
Old 23rd June 2016
  #17
Lives for gear
 
JCBigler's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by shephurd View Post
What exactly is MADI? thank you..

Ok cheers for that one.. Ill check out that Motu set up..

End of the day I need about 100 - 200 individual speakers running different sounds continuously looping.. Thought an interface would be the obvious answer instead of 200 ipods playing - right haha
Meyer Sound's D-Mitri platform, with the DCM-4 Matrix Processor and WildTracks is the solution that you are looking for. It's big iron as far as mixing, playback and system processing goes. We're talking probably $100,000+ for that many i/o channels and the processing to handle it all, before it even hits any copper cable, or speakers.
Old 24th June 2016
  #18
Thank you ALL for the replies., I have much to research from now..
once I suss it out and have it set up ill post some pics with what im doing with it. thank you all again =)
Old 24th June 2016
  #19
Lives for gear
 
cavern's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
Cirque du Soleil KA at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas has over 3,800 speakers.
I did not know that. Amazing. Why so many in one location?
Old 24th June 2016
  #20
Lives for gear
 

Well the OP chimed back in but didn't give any details. Like the big question, does he need 200 stereo outputs each running something different or the same. If it's the same he doesn't need an interface with more than 2 outputs (left / right) for the stereo pair. Match that with cheap used high channel count analog mixers where you feed the stereo signal to the auxes and take signal out at each strip via insert to go to the amps / distribution / speakers and you really don't need to spend much on the interface / mixers to get to that 200 stereo channel analog line level feed however amps / distribution / speakers will still be a fair chunk of money. I'm sure there are other less expensive creative solutions too if we had more specifics. There are ways to put many speakers on the same circuit too which cuts down channel counts (feed many left speakers from one source - feed many right speakers from one source). Talking directly with a fixed installation sound contractor will probably give you the best options to consider though if you need 200 stereo outs of the same thing.
Old 24th June 2016
  #21
Lives for gear
 
JCBigler's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavern View Post
I did not know that. Amazing. Why so many in one location?
The KA Theatre has about 1,900 ish seats, iirc. Each seat has a stereo pair of speakers in the head rest. Then there are over 60 various line array elements and trap boxes for delays, fills, subwoofers, etc...

They also have a full Constellation system which has it's own speaker system. They change the acoustic shape and size of the room on a scene by scene basis, using 3 or 4 different environments during the show.

It is quite an extraordinary show and should be on the must see list whenever you go to Las Vegas. I have a friend that works on the show. I've seen it twice. once from the audience just a few rows back from the front, and once from the FOH mix position. Have also been back stage and seen the patch room where they have their LCS system installed. My buddy said they once lost an entire output card which took down 60 output channels and no one noticed.

KA cost nearly a quarter billion dollars to build and produce. So it's unlikely that we will ever see a show on that scale produced ever again.
Old 24th June 2016
  #22
Lives for gear
 
Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shephurd View Post
i just noticed the amount of monkey in this thread. is this zoo protest? haha
Yeah, it's Psycho!

Unless I'm missing something, you'd only need a single computer to run the MOTU system. All DSP, including live-mixing and processing ability, runs inside the units. The computer could even be a laptop. The network would be a "network of networks"; MOTU's ethernet box handles 5 interfaces, and you'd hook these "mini networks" up to each other via those boxes. In fact, they don't even have to be MOTU ones, and they're cheap.

I say this because every other solution I see here is, well, incomprehesibly-expensive to lil' ol' me, and requires multiple computers and / or many compex systems such as PT setups:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
The RME HDSPe MADI FX and its USB3 counterpart MADIFace XT both have 192 ins and outs, mono.
You can cascade 2 MADI FX cards, but you will need a decent system which is well tuned, as the driver performance (not the PCI bus) will suffer from so many outputs.

But if you have up to 200 speakers, the signal would be mono, correct. So one card offers 194 outputs total, 192 through MADI and 2 through AES/EBU. You'll need a small fortune to get converters for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
a Dante system would work too. What is MADI? a digital audio standard..google it!

Talking of linking multiple systems, you could look at multiple Pro Tools TDM rigs synced together. It's the way they get massive IO counts for scoring stages...HD1 can do 32o, so HD3 can do 96outs (3 192s with 16outs each). Relatively cheap these days compared to MADI compatible converters...sync em together with a pair of Sync IOs and you could do 192io @ 48k cheap-ish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
Fairlight is king of the hill for high track counts including being able to work at multiple HD video resolutions and audio sampling rates at the same time however it's very specialized configurations at a very high price. Due to that high price they have very little market share as many post houses have gone as cheap as they can get away with. Fairlight had a CC-1 card that did 192 physical I/O (via Madi) which you could use multiple cards and their newer CC-2 card does full DSP for 1000 channels but has physical I/O for 100 channels (again you can use multiple cards). Here is a Gearslutz thread on that card: CC-2 - Fairlight's Next Generation Audio Engine with over 1000 Channels The latest from Fairlight is a modular rack card in frame configuration where each card handles less I/O but you can have far more cards and there are many different cards for more specific I/O.

Madi will do over 200 I/O with multiple PCI / PCIe cards in a single computer. You will need to add converters that have Madi I/O or use digital format converter boxes between the converters and Madi cards which add latency because of the extra digital steps.

That many channels of converters will likely be a major cost. There are strategies to lessen that count via mixers / submixers. Please post much more detail about your specific needs / application to get better USABLE answers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
Meyer Sound's D-Mitri system will do up to 288 inputs, 288 internal busses and 288 outputs. Runs on AVB. You would need the DCM-4 Matrix processor and a tone of i/o boxes. Quite expensive, but they are used on large Broadway shows and most of the Las Vegas Cirque du Soleil shows, or the older version which was LCS.

I have heard rumors that D-Mitri 2 may be capable of routing up to 720 inputs, busses and outputs. But no word on a time frame.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
Meyer Sound's D-Mitri platform, with the DCM-4 Matrix Processor and WildTracks is the solution that you are looking for. It's big iron as far as mixing, playback and system processing goes. We're talking probably $100,000+ for that many i/o channels and the processing to handle it all, before it even hits any copper cable, or speakers.
Meyer Sound? Fairlight? Multiple Pro Tools TDM rigs?
Old 24th June 2016
  #23
Lives for gear
MADI does 64 channels at 96K and 128 channels at 48K. To get past 128 channels I'm not sure where you would go.

I would look at RME and SSL and see what solutions they have.

To do 200 channels at 96K, I think you are looking at multiple computers and complex mixing structures.

This is assuming you want a different mix for each signal.

If you just want to distribute to 200 people.....that's a radio station.
Old 25th June 2016
  #24
Lives for gear
 
JCBigler's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elegentdrum View Post
To do 200 channels at 96K, I think you are looking at multiple computers and complex mixing structures.
Meyer's D-Mitri runs at 32-bit/96K, 288 discrete output channels, all on AVB.
Old 25th June 2016
  #25
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
at least they don't monkey around with gear .. did you say what your budget is for this ?? and i had asked a question about Zones .. does this need to be controlled from one place or can you split it up .. the one thing i think about is what if the system goes down ?? if zoned you would only lose one section while the rest of the system continued to run .. and you could make it so that No Area loses signal if you place a few different Zones within one area ..

cheers from johnny the Chimp !!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by shephurd View Post
i just noticed the amount of monkey in this thread. is this zoo protest? haha
Old 25th June 2016
  #26
Lives for gear
 
cavern's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
The KA Theatre has about 1,900 ish seats, iirc. Each seat has a stereo pair of speakers in the head rest. Then there are over 60 various line array elements and trap boxes for delays, fills, subwoofers, etc...

They also have a full Constellation system which has it's own speaker system. They change the acoustic shape and size of the room on a scene by scene basis, using 3 or 4 different environments during the show.

It is quite an extraordinary show and should be on the must see list whenever you go to Las Vegas. I have a friend that works on the show. I've seen it twice. once from the audience just a few rows back from the front, and once from the FOH mix position. Have also been back stage and seen the patch room where they have their LCS system installed. My buddy said they once lost an entire output card which took down 60 output channels and no one noticed.

KA cost nearly a quarter billion dollars to build and produce. So it's unlikely that we will ever see a show on that scale produced ever again.
That's just amazing. Thanks for the info. I find that fascinating.
We are actually going to Vegas in a few months. I might try to see/hear that.
I have 4...(mains/monitors)....well 5 if I count the Bose Bluetooth speaker.
Old 25th June 2016
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
Yeah, it's Psycho!

Unless I'm missing something, you'd only need a single computer to run the MOTU system. All DSP, including live-mixing and processing ability, runs inside the units. The computer could even be a laptop. The network would be a "network of networks"; MOTU's ethernet box handles 5 interfaces, and you'd hook these "mini networks" up to each other via those boxes. In fact, they don't even have to be MOTU ones, and they're cheap.

I say this because every other solution I see here is, well, incomprehesibly-expensive to lil' ol' me, and requires multiple computers and / or many compex systems such as PT setups:










Meyer Sound? Fairlight? Multiple Pro Tools TDM rigs?
The MOTU AVB line is surely a solution when using a frw streams as a source and distributing them over AVB. If you have 200 source signals you'd need to connect them through USB/TB, correct? This challenges the driver performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elegentdrum View Post
MADI does 64 channels at 96K and 128 channels at 48K. To get past 128 channels I'm not sure where you would go.

I would look at RME and SSL and see what solutions they have.

To do 200 channels at 96K, I think you are looking at multiple computers and complex mixing structures.

This is assuming you want a different mix for each signal.

If you just want to distribute to 200 people.....that's a radio station.
MADI offers 64 channels @ 48k, 32 channels @ 96k. You are talking about interfaces with at least 2 discrete duplex MADI ports.
Old 27th June 2016
  #28
Lives for gear
 
Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Yeah DAW PLUS, I took him to mean that he's looking at distributing just a few streams, possibly even one only, across the network.
Old 27th June 2016
  #29
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by shephurd View Post
i just noticed the amount of monkey in this thread. is this zoo protest? haha
... says the "shephurd".
Old 27th June 2016
  #30
Guys - Can we just clarify a few things - DAW Plus (Leon??) I may have missed it... but did it say it had to be a playback system?

I know you sell DAW systems and that you are 100% focused upon that - but doing 200 or even 400 outputs on a network is very trivial for a Dante system.

Everyone please feel free to look at the Sydney Trains Railway system that has tens of thousands of Dante devices - spread accross a state that is the same size as England and 200 channels in a local system seems very small.

Just trying to put this into some perspective

thanks
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump