The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Next Generation Mac Pro Release (When ?)
Old 11th July 2016
  #121
Quote:
Originally Posted by muziksculp View Post
I had no idea they tried that once.

When was that, and what did they license and to whom ? ... More Info. ?
I believe it was the late 80s/early 90s but I can't remember. Back then I didn't really keep up with the Mac side of Apple because they were way too expensive, I was still an Apple II kid then haha. They basically licensed the ROM's and allowed people to make clone's, but they killed it off pretty quickly once they saw how much money they were losing.

The Mac back in those days had part of its 'OS' stored in a ROM on the motherboard, much like how the Apple II family functioned. It wasn't like nowadays with a Hackintosh, where you can put together a build of Intel components and just load OS X on it. Stuff like the Finder and certain components were what was on the OS disks, but the hardware level stuff, amongst other things was stored in an actual chip on the motherboard. It was easy for companies to make IBM clones because Intel didn't operate like Apple. They just sold parts to other companies they could put together and load up DOS on, where Apple had their own product they controlled, manufactured and sold in-house. Without that proprietary ROM chip, you just couldn't do it. There were clones of the Apple II line, but I seem to remember even a few of those had lawsuits brought against them by Apple.
Old 11th July 2016
  #122
Lives for gear
 
lestermagneto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by muziksculp View Post
I had no idea they tried that once.

When was that, and what did they license and to whom ? ... More Info. ?
Another example would be the licensed machines that PowerComputing made in the mid 90's… Apple licensed the ability to sell machines running their OS (it was back in OS7/8/9 days…. And they were a pretty good value.

I had a what was essentially a 9600 clone, that clocked higher then any official apple offerings, had 6 nubus slots or whatnot which I ran my sample cell cards and tdm protools system off of….. worked like a charm…. It was a lot cheaper then the Apple equivalent. But then when Jobs came back (I believe), they yanked that pretty quick, and PowerComputing disappeared….

These were the says when apple was circling the drain big big time… but a lot of my friends had official clones back then, and I don't remember any problems.. (there was some weird video card driver you had to install or something, but that was it!)
Old 11th July 2016
  #123
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lestermagneto View Post
But then when Jobs came back (I believe), they yanked that pretty quick, and PowerComputing disappeared….

These were the says when apple was circling the drain big big time…
Which is why he got rid of it. Without tight integration between software and hardware, Apple would have been gone a long time ago. They could never compete on price, only on ease-of-use.
Old 11th July 2016
  #124
Lives for gear
 
lestermagneto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Which is why he got rid of it. Without tight integration between software and hardware, Apple would have been gone a long time ago. They could never compete on price, only on ease-of-use.
exactly Tui……
Old 12th July 2016
  #125
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lestermagneto View Post
Another example would be the licensed machines that PowerComputing made in the mid 90's… Apple licensed the ability to sell machines running their OS (it was back in OS7/8/9 days…. And they were a pretty good value.
PowerComputer made amazing computers at an incredible rate of innovation. It seemed like each monthly issue of MacWorld or Mac User, had ads for new and faster... to the point that Apple pulled the plug on their license. (I have a low profile PowerCenter 150 updated with an XLR8 350MHz G3 processor which was exciting at that time. Still works. Pretty cool to see Cubase VST 4 come to life now and then.)

I think Apple should do itself and users a favor and let 3rd party computer makers build to-spec systems to run OSX. Isn't it weird that Apple is cranking out ever-new versions of OSX, but the computer offereings, which elegant, pale in comparison to what's available in the PC world. For crying out loud, people build their own kick-ass computers to run Windows. Incompatibility of components can, I'm sure, result in a brain meltdown, but if one knows what they're doing, then a relatively small cost yields a dream machine. Make no mistake, I'm envious of PC users right now.

....radio static and a low-to-high frequency filter sweep fades in...
Old 12th July 2016
  #126
Lives for gear
 

Since Apple can't release a proper tower, I went ahead and decided to pick up a new used 3.33ghz 12 core Mac Pro "cheese grater" to replace my 2.8ghz quad core. The film I scored recently showed me that it wasn't gonna cut it in the future if I wanted to keep the work up.

Maybe by the time I figure out how to max that thing out Apple will figure out how to build a proper tower again. I've considered Hackintosh builds but not really sold on it. Yeah, I've built my share of computers, its not that...but it seems like building a workstation-class PC/hackintosh isn't really cost favorable...its not like one can cheaply build a 12 core computer at Microcenter or something. But the used Mac Pro I just bought, is kind of comically cheap compared to a comparable trash can style Mac Pro. And maybe not 100% the same thing, but regardless, should run circles around my existing system, which is the goal...
Old 12th July 2016
  #127
Power Computing!!! I could not remember for the life of me the name of who made them thanks haha. Yeah their sales started killing Apple's so once the big man was back on board he put a quick stop to that (the Mac was Steve Jobs 'big idea' after all). Apple basically bought the company and put a quick end to them altogether.

As for why Apple doesn't license it out again well.. The OS is free now. They're counting solely on you to buy the hardware (or a phone/tablet) to make them money. In order to keep the profit margin they already have, the license probably wouldn't be much cheaper than the lowest end Mac model they already have. Coupled with the costs the third party is going to pay for the hardware to put it together along with their own profit margin, they might even cost more in the end. Apple's not going to give away the ability to make a Mac clone cheaply when they can keep it all in house and make a killing off it and have another few billion in the bank at the end of the fiscal year (I mean come on developing those new emojis is expensive :D). That was the whole reason the program was stopped in the first place. Apple was in a bad place when Steve-o came back and took the reigns, and they're lucky his iMac design saved the company from complete disaster and financial ruin. They're not going to go down that road again.
Old 12th July 2016
  #128
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Frequently with human endeavours - successful ones at that - I find their greatest strength is, simultaneously, their greatest weakness. Apple tends to live in a world of their own, and now that Steve is absent, even more so.

What, exactly, are they looking for? How to build the best devices in the world? Maximise profit? Make the board of directors incredibly rich?

I'd like to know, what went through the mind of whoever was ultimately in charge of releasing the trashcan MP. Did he look at it, study its detail, consider the potential market, and then go "Yup, this is perfect, that'll do the trick"..?

The mind boggles.
Old 12th July 2016
  #129
Gear Maniac
 
ilikefruit's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by muziksculp View Post
I had no idea they tried that once.

When was that, and what did they license and to whom ? ... More Info. ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_clone
Old 12th July 2016
  #130
Lives for gear
 
T_R_S's Avatar
I really don;t need a mor powerful computer with track freeze commit my current Mac Pro 12 core hardly needs to be 6 core. OTH it screams when its freezing a track ....
so on new machine I will have to wait 20 seconds instead of 30 seconds to freeze a track?
Old 12th July 2016
  #131
Lives for gear
 
spaceman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monotremata View Post
Apple's not going to give away the ability to make a Mac clone cheaply when they can keep it all in house and make a killing off it and have another few billion in the bank at the end of the fiscal year (I mean come on developing those new emojis is expensive :D). That was the whole reason the program was stopped in the first place. Apple was in a bad place when Steve-o came back and took the reigns, and they're lucky his iMac design saved the company from complete disaster and financial ruin. They're not going to go down that road again.
The reason Jobs killed the clone program when he came back, is that it was leading to the very opposite Apple was hoping for when they allowed it. They were hoping it would expand Apple's tiny market share and therefore profits , thru a combination of Apple's own machine sales plus profits from the licensed cloner's sales.

Unfortunately for them , the opposite happened : The Mac ( the sum of Apple branded and clones) market share stayed THE SAME, and as a consequence, the clones market share started eating into Apple's own profits. It didn't expand Apple's user base, they didn't get fresh new users into the Apple world, just many existing Apple Mac owners replacing their Apple branded ones with cloned ones. Their profits started dwindling even more.

Apple reached a point were they were in such a bad shape, they were activeley looking for a buyer. They were very close to have all their assets bought by Sun ( Sun almost bought Apple in 1996 - Business Insider )
I mean, they were becoming the laughing stock of the computer industry :

Quote:
Michael Dell, among others, was asked about what he would do if he were CEO of Apple:
"What would I do? I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders."
So, for the computer industry, especially in enterprise computing, Apple was a big joke. The company and its user base just didn't get it.
https://techcrunch.com/2011/10/18/mi...-misconstrued/

When Jobs came back, his first move was to kill the clone program to stop the hemorrhagy.

I'm old enough to have lived thru that era and was very close to buy a PowerComputing clone myself, they were very good machines indeed.. But the whole thing almost killed Apple and there would have been nothing left to clone.

PS : They built a whole new factory in the US dedicated to the building of the New MP, and usually Apple subcontracts the manufacturing of their machines to other companies ( Foxconn for ex ). You wouldn't build a new factory if you weren't serious about the MacPro.

Last edited by spaceman; 12th July 2016 at 12:38 PM..
Old 12th July 2016
  #132
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceman View Post
You wouldn't build a new factory if you weren't serious about the MacPro.
Looks like window dressing to me. Most of the parts are still made in Asia. It's the new, politically correct Apple under Cook.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for returning jobs back to where companies were founded and are still based. However, those little tin cylinders aren't it.
Old 12th July 2016
  #133
Gear Maniac
 
ilikefruit's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Looks like window dressing to me. Most of the parts are still made in Asia. It's the new, politically correct Apple under Cook.
Well, you can't please everyone.

I mean, setting up a factory, training people and so on must be really easy?
Old 12th July 2016
  #134
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikefruit View Post
Well, you can't please everyone.
True.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikefruit View Post

I mean, setting up a factory, training people and so on must be really easy?
Easy if you have cash like Apple does. One little factory is peanuts for such a corporate behemoth.

Tim Cook is an open-border globalist. He knows which side his bread is buttered.
Old 13th July 2016
  #135
Lives for gear
 

Let's not forget the UMAX SuperMac clone range... I won't forget it in a hurry...

I bought a monster machine but after a year of endless grief and never getting stable audio it fell down the stairs. Frightening waste of 2 grand that was.
Old 13th July 2016
  #136
Lives for gear
 
jlaws's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Looks like window dressing to me. Most of the parts are still made in Asia. It's the new, politically correct Apple under Cook.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for returning jobs back to where companies were founded and are still based. However, those little tin cylinders aren't it.
I'm all for returning jobs, too, but he's no longer with us...
Old 13th July 2016
  #137
Gear Maniac
 
ilikefruit's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Easy if you have cash like Apple does. One little factory is peanuts for such a corporate behemoth.
This is true if you think all problems can be solved by throwing money at it.

If you recall, the initial Mac Pro delivery was delayed from dec 2013 until feb 2014.

Last edited by ilikefruit; 13th July 2016 at 06:44 AM.. Reason: Added Mac Pro for clarity
Old 13th July 2016
  #138
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlaws View Post
I'm all for returning jobs, too, but he's no longer with us...
Old 13th July 2016
  #139
Lives for gear
 
spaceman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlaws View Post
I'm all for returning jobs, too, but he's no longer with us...
Old 17th July 2016
  #140
Lives for gear
 
muziksculp's Avatar
 

What's up with Apple and their Computers ?

Buyer's guide at Mac Rumors showing this :

Old 17th July 2016
  #141
Lives for gear
 
spaceman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by muziksculp View Post
What's up with Apple and their Computers ?

Buyer's guide at Mac Rumors showing this :

They base it on the average time between two Mac updates. It means you shouldn't buy a Mac right now ( unless necessary ) because updates are imminent for those models.
Old 17th July 2016
  #142
Lives for gear
 
muziksculp's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceman View Post
They base it on the average time between two Mac updates. It means you shouldn't buy a Mac right now ( unless necessary ) because updates are imminent for those models.
I am aware of that, but what I find very odd, is that their entire computer line is a do not buy status at this time. So... When will it switch to buy ? Especially the Mac Pro and Mac Book Pro ?
Old 17th July 2016
  #143
Lives for gear
 
spaceman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by muziksculp View Post
I am aware of that, but what I find very odd, is that their entire computer line is a do not buy status at this time. So... When will it switch to buy ? Especially the Mac Pro and Mac Book Pro ?
Apple decided to skip Broadwell and wait for Skylake, and Intel has been more than a year late in delivering it. Now that Skylake is mostly available, Apple is likely to refresh the entire Mac line ( wich hasn't been upgraded for a while) with , and it's expected to happen between now and September/October. Once they do, Macrumors turns the status to green.

Unless you absolutely can't wait, I would hold on buying an MP or MBP until September/October.
Old 17th July 2016
  #144
Gear Head
Trashcan Mac Pro design is fine. It's tiny for a thing of that power, it makes hardly any noise.

Yes it's expensive and yes, hard disk storage has to be external. So what? Buy Thunderbolt. You're loaded if you can afford a Mac Pro anyway, so cough up the cash for Thunderbolt.

If your budget can't stretch to the Mac Pro, just get an iMac. They're still pretty damn fast. Mine is a 2014 Retina model, with a 4790K running at 4GHz. 32GB ram. No processing problems at all.

What I want from a new one -

Latest Broadwell-E Xeon processors. 16 cores in one chip.
Upgraded GPUs. I presume they will stick with AMD, so will have to wait for new Fire Pros.

2TB-4TB SSD storage option. Can't emphasise this enough. 1TB is not a huge amount any more, even for an SSD. This is a pro machine.

I have a 12TB storage array connected to my iMac via Thunderbolt. Raid 0 with 2x WD Red drives. Gets about 275MB/sec. That's good, but you still need internal storage.

A PC workstation I've just been using has dual 14-core Broadwell-E Xeon CPUs. 128GB of ram and a Quadro M6000. 1TB of ram is offered as an upgrade.

1TB!
Old 28th July 2016
  #145
Gear Maniac
I personally like the design of the mac pro. Sits nicely on my desk. Granted I don't have a tremendous amount of gear. But Darn it if they don't update this thing...
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump