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Next Generation Mac Pro Release (When ?)
Old 5th July 2016
  #91
I pretty much blame the fall of the Mac Pro on the iPhone. Apple's priority has shifted from the media/design world that put its name in the workplace to mom and pop who can talk to their grandkids with this magic technology on FaceTime now. If they're that thrilled with their wonder phone/tablet, convincing them to buy a space age looking laptop or space saving Mac Mini would be their next goal. For the regular user, who just does social media/email/iTunes/etc, even an iMac is pretty overpowered so it illicits a bunch of oohs and aahs from them and they're transfixed by it. Yet the people that depended on them for print/design/music/video purposes are slowly moving down their list of priorities. Things seemed like they were going to get better when OS X first hit. Those of you that were around in the OS 8/9 days will remember, at the time Apple was forbidden to include anything involved in creating music with a Mac or the OS thanks to The Beatles and Apple Records. We had to rely on things like OMS for MIDI I/O and depended on Steinberg's VST, MOTU's MAS, Opcode and Digidesign for the audio side of things. OS X comes out, both Apple's finally decided to get along and out comes CoreAudio/CoreMIDI and Apple bought eMagic, only the best things could've come from that right? Yet the post-Jobs Apple really doesn't seem to get this market nowadays. There used to be days where print shops would laugh at the idea of buying a PC and loading up an Adobe or Corel or Quark app on it, but those days are even gone now. Has there even been anything big happen in the Final Cut world lately? They've even shrugged off professional video users, in favor or the iMovie generation to throw together DVD's of the kids or the family beach vacation. As long as somebody buys that new Macbook Pro they don't seem to care what demographic buys it anymore. As far as audio and video goes they're primarily catering towards the media center people who just want to watch high def movies or listen to their Apple Lossless format music collection. In the PowerPC days, the tech moved at a pretty fast rate compared to how much they've advanced with Intel hardware. They finally broke their 3Ghz barrier and then just slowed down, while playing catch up to the FSB and memory speeds PC's were already running at. I guess they're happy now just being in the same league and not necessarily on top of the number crunching game anymore.
Old 5th July 2016
  #92
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spaceman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
It's anecdotal, but whenever I walk past my local Apple Centre - like, today - I see a trashcan on display in the far corner of the shop where nobody would notice it unless they actively looked for it. I've never, ever seen anyone take the smallest amount of interest in it, including the staff.
I think you guys are confusing the lack of demonstrative communication from Apple over pro-products , with lack of interest from Apple over pro-products. Entirely different things.

Pre-iPhone era, Apple used to buy lots of ads in magazines for their MacPros and pro-software. But even during the Steve Jobs era, they stopped doing that, and kept only heavily advertising their consumer products, for a simple reason : Internet.
They simply figured out that pro users have their own information channels, mostly specialized forums like this one, or specialized tech blogs and website. They simply didn't need to communicate and spend money advertizing their pro products since the pro-users themselves do it for them. I mean, just slook at the "New Products" section of GS. Most of the announcements are made by users of this forum, not by the manufacturers themselves.

Do we really care that the MacPro is sitting in a small corner of their Apple Stores wich are really just made for ordinary consumers ? It's like people being disappointed that Windows servers are not visibly on display in their Walmart or BestBuy store, or Sony not visibly showing up their $60.000 CineAlta film cameras next to the PS4 playstation and flat Tvs in Sony stores and interpreting it as lack of interest from Microsoft and Sony in the pro markets.

Lack of media presence from Apple for pro products doesn't equal lack of interest.
I bet 90% of people here never even heard of these huge and totally under-mediatized news : Apple recently stricking a deal with IBM with the latter creating more than a 100 business apps specifically for iOS and making it the official OS for its clients, as well as buying tens of thousands of Macs for its employees. Apple is almost becoming the main hardware and OS supplier for IBM.
Or Apple making a huge partnership with SAP ( the biggest maker of enterprise business applications): Why Apple SAP partnership is smart - Business Insider

Does IBM and SAP strike you as consumer companies ? I think Apple is actually becoming even more interested now in the pro world ( pro users extend beyond the audio/video world) than under Steve Jobs !
Old 5th July 2016
  #93
Gear Maniac
 
ilikefruit's Avatar
Im not sure the iPhone in itself is to blame but rather Apple's shift in focus from pros' and prosumers to normal people who wish to be productive and creative.
Just take a look at the workshops they offer in their stores, learning how to take better photos with iPhone and organizing it on the Mac. As well as teaching on how to use Numbers.
I think their focus is there, since the operating systems and it's applications are really powerful they can get more money out of helping those normal people who wants to throw something together after a day out with the kids. The ones who consumes media and participates.
This Apple is a long way from being the underdog.

Do I miss the old Mac Pro? Sure. Am I happy with my new iMac? I certainly am.
Old 5th July 2016
  #94
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spaceman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikefruit View Post
Just take a look at the workshops they offer in their stores, learning how to take better photos with iPhone and organizing it on the Mac. As well as teaching on how to use Numbers.
Seriously, did you expect workshops on serious audio mixing with ProtoolsHD or 3D modeling with Autodesk Maya in an Apple store ???
It's like expecting video broadcast production workshops from Sony in their Sony stores, or C# Visual Studio programming workshops in Microsoft Stores.

Apple Stores are the consumer face of Apple, just like Sony stores are the consumer face of Sony. You could just walk in a Sony store , look at their Hello Kitty themed mp3 players and flat screen TVs and just think, "meh, they don't care about pro video "
Old 5th July 2016
  #95
Gear Maniac
 
ilikefruit's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceman View Post
Seriously, did you expect workshops on serious audio mixing with ProtoolsHD or 3D modeling with Autodesk Maya in an Apple store ?
Not at all. Merely showing that their focus has changed.

But if they were focusing on pros, I'm sure they would teach Logic and not Pro Tools.
Old 5th July 2016
  #96
Quote:
Originally Posted by comrad_durandal View Post
Frankly, I would not be surprised in the LEAST if they announced they were discontinuing the Mac Pro line entirely - they put a bullet in the head of their Thunderbolt display versus updating it, and given how lousy they sell - I can only imagine that there will be a bean-counter out there looking at the Mac Pro as a losing proposition to support when iPads, iPhones, and iMacs make them much more money.

Hate to be a Debby Downer....I -Love- my Mac Pro, so I hope I am wrong. I will gladly eat my words.
I'm just thinking out loud here but I wonder if the timing has been bad technology-wise. There has not been many new CPU's from Intel to put in an upgrade, therefore no updates and also the state of USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 I can imagine will delay things as well. I don't think if would be wise for Apple to push an update when they will need to update it again shortly after. Just my guesses.
I really think the price of the Mac Pro is a bit high and so for my next computer I am looking at an iMac instead. If I made a living from music, I would probably lean towards the Mac Pro.
Old 5th July 2016
  #97
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projektk's Avatar
 

They'll probably do it once thunderbolt 3 rolls out across all Macs. It's really the only thing the current model doesn't have. Seriously a new Mac pro that allows you to add additional graphics via TB3 and RAID drive config can work perfectly fine in a professional setting. If a decent bitcoin rig can run 7 GPUs no problem imagine external D700 units adding up to however many the chain allows. HDX needs to move over to dedicated thunderbolt boxes. Offering a core box with DSP power and optional accel boxes with more DSP and less IO. Also have boxes with more IO capabilities and no DSP. And also a native core box with no DSP. Either way no pcei required. Older Mac pros work fine for those set ups.
Old 6th July 2016
  #98
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Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rksguit View Post
... prices in Oz are just silly... but all these companies[definitely not just apple] want everyone to think "smaller and smaller" is better,when @ Monkey Man post #4 is what we all REALLY want.
Ain't that the truth, rksguit!

So relieved I'm not alone, judging by this thread; I've hung out these past 3 years and will continue to do so. If they want my and many others' continued business they might want to think about giving us what we want, and not what they'd like us to want and where they reckon we ought to go. Just how small would they like us to downsize to? Do we have trouble fitting our Mac Pros into our studios?

I know - let's shrink those pesky keys on our master keyboards - 3 to 5 feet is way too long. Then there're guitars and basses. All that wasted room.

If I didn't know any better, I'd have thought the goal was to be able to record and produce one's projects in what the Indonesians call the "rumah kecil" - the "small room", and I think we can all guess where that is.

Geeez. There, I feel a little bit better... for now. I still don't get it. It's not like we're asking for more R&D, investment or innovation. Just whack the latest processors and motherboards into a freakin' cheese grater, give it some new-fangled name like an iTower or something, and be done with it!

Oh, and g'day from Melbourne, matey.
Old 6th July 2016
  #99
Gear Maniac
 
Sigfried Chicken's Avatar
I think part of the issue is that high-end iMacs have been gradually cannibalizing Mac Pro sale.

Up until around 10 years ago, iMacs were considered family/consumer computers. Hardly anyone did professional audio production on an iMac, unless you count Garageband.

Today, a high-end iMac Retina is a powerful workstation that can easily handle large projects, at half the price of a Mac Pro. Quite a few people are running Logic on an iMac.

Unless you are doing film production, or something very intensive, you can usually get away with a high-end iMac now.
Old 6th July 2016
  #100
Gear Maniac
 
Sigfried Chicken's Avatar
I'm convinced that Apple culture is just not compatible with the enterprise world (big business).

Apple likes to be secretive and then suddenly announce disruptive changes to standard interfaces and form factors. That's fine for consumers, where the product is replaced every 2-3 years.

But the enterprise world is loaded with sunk costs and cannot react quickly to these changes. Major business need more backwards compatibility than consumers. Apple is notorious for abruptly abandoning product lines and not wanting to support anything more than three years old.

In the enterprise world, developers are in constant contact with their customers, in order to ensure that the new products fit their needs. Apple just comes down from the mountain and dictates the new changes, take it or leave it. Again, that's fine for consumer products, but it's not appropriate in the enterprise.

The only Apple product to make a serious impact in the enterprise is the iPhone. And that's mainly because of the iPhone's success in the consumer world. Sure, Marketing and Audio/Video organizations tend to use Macs, but only for those express purposes. Almost no one runs web servers, databases or serious enterprise resource planning software on a Mac.
Old 7th July 2016
  #101
Apple has always had a struggle competing in the enterprise market. IBM blew them away in the 80s, and Apple just never caught up. Wozniak's Apple line was catered to hobbyists, and somewhat to business. The II/II+/IIe were loaded with options for expandability to do whatever you needed to do, that was what Wozniak wanted. Room to grow and come up with new ways to use your computer. The Mac was Jobs' baby and just never managed to break out in the business world The earlier lines of them just didn't have the expandability like they did later on down the line, when the 'pizza box' Macs came out and you could finally add peripheral cards inside the cases. By that time, the market was already so saturated with DOS/Windows machines there was no way they were going to catch up. Macs also priced themselves out a lot of the time too, they were ridiculously expensive compared to PCs in the 80s/90s. Its gotten better today in some respects but anyone that knows their hardware can put together a Hackintosh equivalent to the top of the line Macs for less money.
Old 7th July 2016
  #102
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b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvalmont View Post
You are right about the headaches. Hackintoshes are more trouble than they are worth from my experience. Unless you are one of those who never wants to update the OS on their system, in which case it is perfect for you. Of course, YMMV.
That was the case, but things have changed so much recently with the Clover bootloader. It's a night and day difference.

If you buy recommended hardware it'll be easy. Plenty of guides to follow that require no technical knowledge. I update mine through the app store, like any other Mac.
Old 8th July 2016
  #103
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Crazy4Jazz's Avatar
 

I know I don't want to spend 6k on a computer that becomes obsolete as I carry it out of the store.
Old 9th July 2016
  #104
Gear Maniac
 
ilikefruit's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4Jazz View Post
I know I don't want to spend 6k on a computer that becomes obsolete as I carry it out of the store.
I suppose you'll never buy another computing device again.
Old 9th July 2016
  #105
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Crazy4Jazz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikefruit View Post
I suppose you'll never buy another computing device again.
LOL, Good point! More specifically, I don't want to purchase the 6k computer to have a newer, better model announced the next day. This might be why companies like Apple play it so close to the cuff. They don't want to scare away customers who are ready to buy with leaked information on the next latest and greatest. It would cause a dip in sales prior to every release so best to keep new offerings as quiet as possible.
Old 9th July 2016
  #106
Thats just the gamble you have to take with technology. Its happened almost every time Ive bought a new Apple product. Bought a brand new 2002 Quicksilver 800mhz G4, a month or two later, Apple revs the line and every model now comes with dual processors for the same price. Bought the brand new 800Mhz Titanium Powerbook, not even a month later out comes the 1Ghz model. Brand new 10GB iPod, same thing. A month later here comes the new line that had twice the storage and wasn't a big hard drive sized brick. All of those products though served me well, I needed them when I got them and they did the job I wanted to do. The only one I did swap was the Powerbook. But that was because I wanted a faster G4 than my desktop had. I got lucky, since it was so new, a friend of mine bought it and I got a nice price for it, and it only cost me another $300 or so to order the newer one. I can see the hesitance to do it nowadays though. Back then when all those were bought, Apple wasn't so quick to kill off support for older products as they are now. My G4 was supported all the way up to the Intel change, and even after up until the OS became Intel only. Nowadays if your Mac is 4-5 years old you have to worry about whether the next OS will even allow you to install it or not. And once that happens, you start getting dropped for other software you rely on too as they follow Apple's convention and won't support the OS you are running.
Old 10th July 2016
  #107
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monotremata View Post
... Titanium Powerbook...
Funny you should mention it. I just brought my 667MHz model out of retirement. It has a PCIe slot and connects to my Multiface II, which I use for digital routing purposes.

The TiBook is still one handsome machine.
Old 10th July 2016
  #108
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muziksculp's Avatar
 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Mac Pro is the lowest priority device on Apple's list of products, and I would also not be surprised if they kill the entire line of Mac Pros. I just wish they say something about it. I would hate to wait until let's say Sept. , Oct. , or even Nov. this year, just to hear the bad news.

Surely boring, frustrating, and uncertain times for Mac Pro fans
Old 10th July 2016
  #109
Gear Addict
 
maxy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTR View Post
My imac 5k is doing a great job! I sold my 2015 MBP, to small to try and do anything for me!
During recording do you get the fan running? My MBP gets loud! It is making me nervous about moving to an iMac.
Old 10th July 2016
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muziksculp View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if the Mac Pro is the lowest priority device on Apple's list of products, and I would also not be surprised if they kill the entire line of Mac Pros. I just wish they say something about it. I would hate to wait until let's say Sept. , Oct. , or even Nov. this year, just to hear the bad news.

Surely boring, frustrating, and uncertain times for Mac Pro fans
It's probably down there with the iPod nano and shuffle.

Apple recently changed OSX to macOS. I'm hoping Apple will license macOS to select PC manufactures for their higher end products that won't compete with the iMac and mini. They could then kill the Mac Pro and everyone would be happy.
Old 10th July 2016
  #111
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muziksculp's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastlanephil View Post
It's probably down there with the iPod nano and shuffle.

Apple recently changed OSX to macOS. I'm hoping Apple will license macOS to select PC manufactures for their higher end products that won't compete with the iMac and mini. They could then kill the Mac Pro and everyone would be happy.
I doubt they license Mac OS . But I totally agree, that would be a helpful step if they decide to discontinue the Mac Pro line.
Old 10th July 2016
  #112
Gear Maniac
 

I don't think there is even a slightest chance of this ever happening.
Old 10th July 2016
  #113
Lives for gear
 
Ain't Nobody's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monotremata View Post
Thats just the gamble you have to take with technology. Its happened almost every time Ive bought a new Apple product. Bought a brand new 2002 Quicksilver 800mhz G4, a month or two later, Apple revs the line and every model now comes with dual processors for the same price. Bought the brand new 800Mhz Titanium Powerbook, not even a month later out comes the 1Ghz model. Brand new 10GB iPod, same thing. A month later here comes the new line that had twice the storage and wasn't a big hard drive sized brick. All of those products though served me well, I needed them when I got them and they did the job I wanted to do. The only one I did swap was the Powerbook. But that was because I wanted a faster G4 than my desktop had. I got lucky, since it was so new, a friend of mine bought it and I got a nice price for it, and it only cost me another $300 or so to order the newer one. I can see the hesitance to do it nowadays though. Back then when all those were bought, Apple wasn't so quick to kill off support for older products as they are now. My G4 was supported all the way up to the Intel change, and even after up until the OS became Intel only. Nowadays if your Mac is 4-5 years old you have to worry about whether the next OS will even allow you to install it or not. And once that happens, you start getting dropped for other software you rely on too as they follow Apple's convention and won't support the OS you are running.
And yet my 2008 Mac Pro has proven remarkably resilient through half a dozen OS upgrades, swapping in of SSD's, upgraded video card, etc. The new design really is brilliant, but it also utterly fails at the one thing that made the 2008 such a workhorse... the ability to cram more crap into it.

I'm running a 2013 trash can at work, and I love how quiet and fast it is, but I have to wipe the drive clean for each project to make room. Still waiting to upgrade my own machine until I see some real functional improvements and futureproofing. This next computer will likely cost more than my car, so not looking to tie myself to DDR3, TB2, low ram ceiling, low storage ceiling, etc.)
Old 10th July 2016
  #114
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timemist's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by comrad_durandal View Post
Not well at all. When I purchased my Mac Pro in Feb - the entire store just stopped when I asked about buying a Mac Pro. The sales person at the Apple Store had to make sure they had one to sell me - as 'we don't sell hardly any units, your the first this year who wants to buy one'.
I wonder if your experience would be different if you had purchased it through an Apple reseller such as Sweetwater, B&H, etc. who specialize in the pro audio area and also sell Mac Pros.

The Mac Pro model might be something that is doing fine via their resellers who are much better positioned to deal with the professional market than are the brick and mortar retail Apple Stores.

Quote:
Originally Posted by comrad_durandal View Post
The store manager came out to thank me for my purchase, I got a card for their district manager (which I subsequently lost, not being a big purchaser and being in the middle of moving). I mean, once they were sure I wasn't gonna change my mind - they were rolling out the carpet for that puppy to head home with me.
Well, at least it sounds like they do consider it important, so that's cool.
Old 10th July 2016
  #115
Gear Maniac
 
ilikefruit's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxy View Post
During recording do you get the fan running? My MBP gets loud! It is making me nervous about moving to an iMac.
You shouldn't be nervous about moving to an iMac. The cooling can only be better. My old 2010 iMac was very silent, even though I could hear it more often in later years, due to dust buildup.
My new iMac 5K is dead silent. It only has one fan, which is large and doesn't have to move fast to move the air.

BTW, if your MBP is older, it might be time to clean out the fan and heatsink.
If you have an Apple Store close by, ask if they can help you out.

Last edited by ilikefruit; 10th July 2016 at 06:55 PM.. Reason: Spelling
Old 10th July 2016
  #116
Gear Addict
 
maxy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikefruit View Post
You shouldn't be nervous about moving to an iMac. The cooling can only be better. My old 2010 iMac was very silent, even though I could hear it more often in later years, due to dust buildup.
My new iMac 5K is dead silent. It only has one fan, which is large and doesn't have to move fast to move the air.

BTW, if your MBP is older, it might be time to clean out the fan and heatsink.
If you have an Apple Store close by, ask if they can help you out.
I've had it creeping on 2 years, so maybe it is time to clean it out. Thanks for the input.
Old 10th July 2016
  #117
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thismercifulfate's Avatar
My 2010 17" MBP made quite a bit of fan noise. I did clean it out with some compressed air and while the machine did stay cooler, the fans were still pretty loud when I was running heavy PT sessions. My new Mac Pro trashcan is totally silent - I have to get my head within 10 inches of the vent to hear anything at all.
Old 10th July 2016
  #118
RTR
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RTR's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxy View Post
During recording do you get the fan running? My MBP gets loud! It is making me nervous about moving to an iMac.
honestly, I dont hear my fan running at all. I have a harder time keeping my breathing out of an acoustic recoding..
Old 10th July 2016
  #119
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastlanephil View Post
Apple recently changed OSX to macOS. I'm hoping Apple will license macOS to select PC manufactures for their higher end products that won't compete with the iMac and mini. They could then kill the Mac Pro and everyone would be happy.
They already tried that once, and it didn't work out for em..
Old 11th July 2016
  #120
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muziksculp's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monotremata View Post
They already tried that once, and it didn't work out for em..

I had no idea they tried that once.

When was that, and what did they license and to whom ? ... More Info. ?
Topic:
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