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Next Generation Mac Pro Release (When ?)
Old 18th June 2016
  #61
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timtoonz's Avatar
I really have to wonder how well the trash-can MP's are selling. The price seems prohibitively high, and the lack of expansion makes it a non-starter for many pros, including myself. Other than graphic designers, I wonder who's buying them and how many they've sold.

I just upgraded the CPU's in my 2010 MacPro 5.1, and with SSD's and 12 cores at 3.3 ghz, I can hang on for a while yet. But I wish Apple had a new machine I could seriously aspire to.

Last edited by timtoonz; 18th June 2016 at 03:15 AM..
Old 18th June 2016
  #62
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More and more money you pay for a Mac goes to Intel... we are all addicted to Intel, and they sell us overpriced chips. According to their Moore's law they should double the number of transistors every 18 months, and that's not happening anymore for quite a while now.

I have now connected and synced two Macs using Ableton Link. Works well. This is the way to go: grid computing.
Old 18th June 2016
  #63
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jsvalmont's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyGoldstein View Post
More and more money you pay for a Mac goes to Intel... we are all addicted to Intel, and they sell us overpriced chips. According to their Moore's law they should double the number of transistors every 18 months, and that's not happening anymore for quite a while now.

I have now connected and synced two Macs using Ableton Link. Works well. This is the way to go: grid computing.
Moore's Law is a crock. It is a "law" based on a trend that occurred several years in a row (and it required transistors to be easily shrunk to achieve, which they were for some time). But as a predictor at this point it is hardly relevant. Transistor sizes are getting so small that improvements require a lot more extra consideration now than just "let's shrink it more" like it used to be when that 'law' was applicable.
Old 18th June 2016
  #64
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I agree. They could still double the number of cores (for the money) every 24 months though. That's also not happening.

http://www.economist.com/technology-...ter-moores-law

How will the audiotech scene deal with this problem?

Last edited by MarkyGoldstein; 18th June 2016 at 05:06 PM..
Old 18th June 2016
  #65
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jsvalmont's Avatar
They couldn't double the number of cores without halving the size of the transistors unless you are asking forever increasing processor socket sizes (or maybe via 3D die stacking). One part of the problem for power users is that Intel spends an ever increasing percent of their transistor count on integrated GPU which helps very little for those who want more CPU power. The processors designed for such power users are the Xeon and -E CPUs, and they have actually been increasing core count on those, albeit not at a 2X per 18 months (Moore's law) rate.
Old 19th June 2016
  #66
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valis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by timtoonz View Post
I really have to wonder how well the trash-can MP's are selling. The price seems prohibitively high, and the lack of expansion makes it a non-starter for many pros, including myself. Other than graphic designers, I wonder who's buying them and how many they've sold.
A 5K iMac is actually a better fit for most graphic designers. I should know, I use one for most of my lighter duty work.

The Mac Pro was targeting almost exclusively video editors, color correctors & compositors doing 4K (and sometimes 8K) video work, and in typical Apple fashion the 5K iMac made this confusing as the external Apple Cinema display is actually subpar to the screen in the 5K iMac while the iMac suffers from a lackluster GPU selection (underpowered ATI choices with a default VRAM choice of 2GB and 4GB tops, rediculous). Rumors about an updated 5K Cinema Display with thunderbolt connectivity & a built in GPU were not found to be true as of WDC 2016, so things are still .. weird. You can get an underpowered GPU & CPU (compared to the Mac Pro trashcan) and a better screen, or deal with using 3rd party (non-Apple) hardware and the Trashcan...or....

Apple can be silly at times.

For audio users who can handle the task a hackintosh is a far far better option these days.
Old 19th June 2016
  #67
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spaceman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
...
The Mac Pro was targeting almost exclusively video editors, color correctors & compositors doing 4K (and sometimes 8K) video work, and in typical Apple fashion the 5K iMac made this confusing as the external Apple Cinema display is actually subpar to the screen in the 5K iMac ...

External screens don't have to be Apple branded to work with the MacPro ( or with any Mac) though... The 5K displays from Dell seem to have excellent reviews and they're not crazy expensive ( less than a 1000$ )

Ironically, Dell introduced that screen originally at 2500$ , then had to lower it after Apple released the 5K iMac for less than Dell's screen alone ( 2200$ ). Apple undercutting everyone's prices is not something we're always used to
Old 20th June 2016
  #68
I've got a late 2013 MP and frankly it kills. it's way faster than the 2012 cheese grater I had, and is VERY reliable. I have no problem with peripherals either. I have a UAD2 PCIe card in an external Sonnet case and 2 external Thunderbolt cases that just sit on the desk. honestly I don't see the problem. I guess you folks just like to have something to bitch about.
Old 20th June 2016
  #69
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muziksculp's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by climber View Post
I've got a late 2013 MP and frankly it kills. it's way faster than the 2012 cheese grater I had, and is VERY reliable. I have no problem with peripherals either. I have a UAD2 PCIe card in an external Sonnet case and 2 external Thunderbolt cases that just sit on the desk. honestly I don't see the problem. I guess you folks just like to have something to bitch about.
Hi climber,

Well... It's 2016, not 2013, and I'm waiting for the next generation Mac Pros to be released, because I don't plan to buy over three year old technology, especially computers from Apple.

Apple is way behind on refreshing their Mac Pro line. so that is one of the reasons I'm patiently waiting for the next generation Mac Pros, and not bitching about it .. I still use my Intel-Based cheese grater 2006 Mac Pro 8 core for various applications, but not for music production. One thing I should be bitching about is that I can't upgrade my 2006 Mac Pro to the any OSX other than Lion, because Apple said so, and that's the end of the road for it, so it is stuck in OSX Lion-Land. and support for OSX Lion is being dropped gradually by various application developers.

I'm now using a powerful custom made PC-DAW running Cubase Pro 8.5 (Windows 8.1), but I would love to integrate a Mac into my music production system, and use it for other applications as well. so that has to be the next generation Mac Pro. I don't need/want a laptop, or an iMac for music production applications.

Hopefully Apple will deliver the next generation Mac Pros this coming FALL the latest.

Cheers,
Muziksculp
Old 20th June 2016
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muziksculp View Post
Hi climber,

Well... It's 2016, not 2013, and I'm waiting for the next generation Mac Pros to be released, because I don't plan to buy over three year old technology, especially computers from Apple.

Apple is way behind on refreshing their Mac Pro line. so that is one of the reasons I'm patiently waiting for the next generation Mac Pros, and not bitching about it .. I still use my Intel-Based cheese grater 2006 Mac Pro 8 core for various applications, but not for music production. One thing I should be bitching about is that I can't upgrade my 2006 Mac Pro to the any OSX other than Lion, because Apple said so, and that's the end of the road for it, so it is stuck in OSX Lion-Land. and support for OSX Lion is being dropped gradually by various application developers.

I'm now using a powerful custom made PC-DAW running Cubase Pro 8.5 (Windows 8.1), but I would love to integrate a Mac into my music production system, and use it for other applications as well. so that has to be the next generation Mac Pro. I don't need/want a laptop, or an iMac for music production applications.

Hopefully Apple will deliver the next generation Mac Pros this coming FALL the latest.

Cheers,
Muziksculp
That would be a 2008 3,1 MacPro you are referring to. Mine happily runs El Cap. BTW
Old 20th June 2016
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattrixx View Post
That would be a 2008 3,1 MacPro you are referring to. Mine happily runs El Cap. BTW
It looks like there was an dual 3.OGHz 4-core BTO option for the 2006 Mac Pro.
Old 20th June 2016
  #72
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I purchased a 5.1 3.46GHz 2009 12-core some time back. It does benchmark close to the 2013 12-core Mac Pro for 64-bit multi-core. I also have eight internal drives and didn't have to spring for costly TB encloses. It was a fraction of the cost of what Apple's top end still runs.

Latest developer version results show the 5.1 2009 Mac Pro being compatible with MacOS Sierra. I think that there is a good chance that all the 5.1 Macs will continue to be OS supported for a few more years regardless of them being 2009-2010-2012 models. A few years later and the 2013 Mac Pro will probably also be cut loose.
Old 20th June 2016
  #73
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And how fast is your memory? 1867 MHz DDR3?

The clock is coming down because they are adding (smaller) transistors, and those are adding heat.

But yes, a software studio needs many parallel real hardware threads, and therefore many cores.
Old 21st June 2016
  #74
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastlanephil View Post
I purchased a 5.1 3.46GHz 2009 12-core some time back. It does benchmark close to the 2013 12-core Mac Pro for 64-bit multi-core. I also have eight internal drives and didn't have to spring for costly TB encloses. It was a fraction of the cost of what Apple's top end still runs.

Latest developer version results show the 5.1 2009 Mac Pro being compatible with MacOS Sierra. I think that there is a good chance that all the 5.1 Macs will continue to be OS supported for a few more years regardless of them being 2009-2010-2012 models. A few years later and the 2013 Mac Pro will probably also be cut loose.
Are you sure Sierra will support it?? I just saw an article yesterday about all the new features and whatnot (I wanted to read about the new filesystem) and it listed the requirements as 2010 Mac Pros and up. This actually has me worried that Apple is going to kill off my 2010 Pro after this release. I guess well see when the public beta comes out next month. Cant see any reason why they would throw out the 2009s though, its essentially the same hardware as the 2010s just older CPUs.
Old 21st June 2016
  #75
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jwh1192's Avatar
should be the same as mine .. 1333 ...



Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyGoldstein View Post
And how fast is your memory? 1867 MHz DDR3?

The clock is coming down because they are adding (smaller) transistors, and those are adding heat.

But yes, a software studio needs many parallel real hardware threads, and therefore many cores.
Old 21st June 2016
  #76
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I expect DDR4 memory and 3D-NAND SSD technology in upcoming Macs. Those are areas where computers still develop.

The CPU shrinking will finish in a few years / generations, except some new Einstein invents new material or another dimension.

The biggest improvements come from better I/O architecture, therefore grid and concurrent computing. Our software needs to change as well, and use new thinking, such as Internet of Instruments (in relation to IoT).
Old 26th June 2016
  #77
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I finally bit the bullet and purchased a second-hand 2013 6-core Mac Pro with 512GB flash menory on eBay from a credible vendor. After weeks of perusing listings I got a pretty incredible deal - basically what I would have been willing to pay for the most basic quad core.

It's an incredible machine and sessions that were causing playback stops and cpu errors on my maxed out 17" 2010 MacBook Pro are a childs play. Gone are my days of printing/consolidating tracks for hours just to be able to finish mixes on big projects.

I know it's easy to get incredibly pessimistic about Apple sometimes (especially after too much time on tge forums), but if you're on the fence about the trashcan, I say go for it!
Old 26th June 2016
  #78
the wider problem is that steve jobs isn't here anymore, they have lost their focus in my opinion in the last few years and seem to be focusing more and more on phones, ipads and the cheaper products, less and less on the higher end products, anyway I'm intrugued to see what they do to create a new mac pro and mac book pro.
Old 26th June 2016
  #79
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There was a financial crisis in the world, let's say multiple. The rich got richer, and the poor got poorer. The mass of people were happy with their old machines. The entire PC business went through dry years. They are not building these machines for a bunch of musicians who have no business model... and 66% of a Mac is Intel (and other players), and therefore not really Apple's income. At some point Apple might launch instrumentOS for the Apple A13 chip, because that might bring their business back home. I'm just saying you can't predict the future by reading the past.

The problem is that normal people don't need multi-core computers. Just us few crazy folks, we really need that stuff.

Last edited by MarkyGoldstein; 26th June 2016 at 07:44 PM..
Old 4th July 2016
  #80
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Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico Sergeant View Post
I am talking about working in two studio's mainly, both studio's have monitors and cables already, I don't use PCIE cards, so I only need the mac and a couple of SSD, I realise this isn't a usual case scenario, but for me it works out great.

As I have said though I totally understand why some people don't like it, but I also think that if you are just using it in one location then it isn't so bad even with some peripherals, I guess if you use PCIE cards then that could be a bit much but I suspect most people don't use cards anymore, so that really only leaves the Hard drives which I prefer external anyway because they are so easy to swap in a good dock.

Apple isn't going to go back to big enclosures, so I just hope they continue to make high end powerful mac pro's, if they stop then I think it would be a big loss, so I look to the positives and try to get the best out of it, I think its pretty impressive to have a mac so powerful that I can just grab with one hand and throw into a bag, that runs almost silent, and uses so little electric, I like it.
Sorry I took so long to respond, Rico!

Thank you for replying, mate.
Old 4th July 2016
  #81
I wouldn't be surprised if apple expects people to do professional work running Logic on a New upcoming *iPhone* w mini USB-C/TB3?

Honestly Iv'e wanted a Mac for ages[prices in Oz are just silly],but all these companies[definitely not just apple] want everyone to think "smaller and smaller" is better,when @ Monkey Man post #4 is what we all REALLY want.

Last edited by rksguit; 7th July 2016 at 02:13 AM..
Old 4th July 2016
  #82
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As much as i love Apple and especially Logic X, seriously considering getting one of those asus rog or higher end dell inspiron laptops and moving to ableton..

I work as a Music Producer/Composer currently using a 2010 MB Pro with a Samsung Evo SSD, the new macbook pros are so damn expensive, the 2.8ghz mac mini is the only one close to my budget but for the same price or cheaper i can get a windows laptop with 16 gb ram and the latest i7 processor.. Any advice?.. I use a lot of kontakt libraries and heavy plugins in general so im guessing the 8 gb mac mini wouldn't suffice... Would really miss the logic sample library/bank though
Old 4th July 2016
  #83
Tui
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Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by timtoonz View Post
I really have to wonder how well the trash-can MP's are selling.
It's anecdotal, but whenever I walk past my local Apple Centre - like, today - I see a trashcan on display in the far corner of the shop where nobody would notice it unless they actively looked for it. I've never, ever seen anyone take the smallest amount of interest in it, including the staff.

It can't be upgraded or expanded, looks ugly and doesn't have an Apple logo on it, which, maybe, is just as well. It costs a bomb, too...
Old 4th July 2016
  #84
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The current Mac Pro's are really worth less than half what Apple wants for them. It was the same for the recently discontinued TB display.

Apple only has two designated "Pro" apps now. FCPX and Logic Pro X, both of which are used by a wide range of user types but LPX more so.

On 12/20/16 it will be three years since the Mac Pro was updated. Apple Care will be running out for those who rely on it for their business. That would seem to be the point of no return.
Old 4th July 2016
  #85
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Yeah, I've been waiting on the used trash cans to drop in price, you can get a 2.7 quad for 1500-2k, then upgrade the core later. I'm still on a cheese grater but getting worried about apogee dropping support for symphony 64 pcie card, I also have a thunderbridge but who knows when I'll instantly lose value on my equipment because I'm not on the latest and greatest.
Old 4th July 2016
  #86
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
Sorry I took so long to respond, Rico!

Thank you for replying, mate.
No problem my friend.
Old 4th July 2016
  #87
Its interesting to see how Apple is really driving away so many people using Macs for their studios. I'm on the same boat as well, been using Logic and Macs to work on music for ages but now seriously considering going to Ableton on Windows.
Old 5th July 2016
  #88
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The part that bugs me is that the Trashcan MP's won't sell well, and then Apple will conclude "See? People don't care about desktops anymore!" The reality is that if they could deliver a more useable, expandable desktop at a reasonable price then plenty of users - me for one - would be waiting, cash in hand.

Old 5th July 2016
  #89
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fwet's Avatar
Fingers crossed for mbp's for the 4th quarter of this year. It would be cool to see an oled touch strip on it. That would open up some possibilities. Maybe even carry over to the keyboards.
Old 5th July 2016
  #90
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Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by timtoonz View Post
I really have to wonder how well the trash-can MP's are selling. The price seems prohibitively high, and the lack of expansion makes it a non-starter for many pros, including myself. Other than graphic designers, I wonder who's buying them and how many they've sold.

I just upgraded the CPU's in my 2010 MacPro 5.1, and with SSD's and 12 cores at 3.3 ghz, I can hang on for a while yet. But I wish Apple had a new machine I could seriously aspire to.
Not well at all. When I purchased my Mac Pro in Feb - the entire store just stopped when I asked about buying a Mac Pro. The sales person at the Apple Store had to make sure they had one to sell me - as 'we don't sell hardly any units, your the first this year who wants to buy one'. The store manager came out to thank me for my purchase, I got a card for their district manager (which I subsequently lost, not being a big purchaser and being in the middle of moving). I mean, once they were sure I wasn't gonna change my mind - they were rolling out the carpet for that puppy to head home with me.

Given that kind of reaction - I'd guess the post-Jobs Apple really doesn't know what to do with the Mac Pro, or any of the business-centered products. They exist, they kind of support them sort of... but they aren't really focused on their long term viability.

Frankly, I would not be surprised in the LEAST if they announced they were discontinuing the Mac Pro line entirely - they put a bullet in the head of their Thunderbolt display versus updating it, and given how lousy they sell - I can only imagine that there will be a bean-counter out there looking at the Mac Pro as a losing proposition to support when iPads, iPhones, and iMacs make them much more money.

Hate to be a Debby Downer....I -Love- my Mac Pro, so I hope I am wrong. I will gladly eat my words.
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