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Next Generation Mac Pro Release (When ?)
Old 15th June 2016
  #31
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jsvalmont's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah330 View Post
I agree, but I can't get excited about an iMac.

I don't need a new screen, I don't want a machine with soldered in RAM that is too expensive to order from the factory and I need PCIe slots for ProTools.

So in the end, buying an iMac would cost me more money due to expansion chassis, etc....

As much as I hate to say this I'm going to either do Hackintosh or bite the bullet and do Windows.
The RAM is not soldered in iMac. The first thing I did when I got my new iMac was place 32GB of RAM in there that I purchased from Newegg. Worked like a charm.
Old 15th June 2016
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
Don't you also have to carry the variously-shaped-and-sized peripherals, Rico?

I'd have thought that external chassis for cards, drives, cables and whatnot, when taken along with your nMP, would make for a logistical nightmare when compared to a single cheese grater.
Not really I just put it into my small case with wheels along with cloths or whatever else I might need.
Old 15th June 2016
  #33
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Void's G5 Mk. II - Project: G5-S.H.I.E.L.D | tonymacx86.com

Seriously though, if you're wanting the tower back, HACKINTOSH. It's really easy nowadays, just buy recommended hardware.

One of the reasons I avoided the MacPro was the fact all the drives and whatnot would spider off of it, which completely voids the point of the minimal housing in the first place. The Fractal Define R5 case I have is silent, cool, and holds more than I'll need.

Combine that with a GFX card with fans that only spin when needed, and a silent CPU fan, and you have the ultimate silent tower mac. More powerful than the original. In fact I could buy THREE of these builds for the same price as a similar MacPro.

I'm still all over the New Macbook Pro though. Instant purchase :¬)
Old 16th June 2016
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico Sergeant View Post
I might well be the only one here but I really like my (so called trashcan) Mac Pro, I have an OWC thunderbolt dock and it runs fantastic, I record to the internal drive and it is blisteringly fast, I can pick it up put it into my bag or case and take it with me to other locations, I much prefer it to the old Mac Pro, altho I do understand why some don't feel the same
I record to a HDD. I've read that a SSD may develop issues from a lot of over writing. Maybe it depends on how much recording you're doing and the size of the SSD.
Old 16th June 2016
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post


Void's G5 Mk. II - Project: G5-S.H.I.E.L.D | tonymacx86.com

Seriously though, if you're wanting the tower back, HACKINTOSH. It's really easy nowadays, just buy recommended hardware.

One of the reasons I avoided the MacPro was the fact all the drives and whatnot would spider off of it, which completely voids the point of the minimal housing in the first place. The Fractal Define R5 case I have is silent, cool, and holds more than I'll need.

Combine that with a GFX card with fans that only spin when needed, and a silent CPU fan, and you have the ultimate silent tower mac. More powerful than the original. In fact I could buy THREE of these builds for the same price as a similar MacPro.

I'm still all over the New Macbook Pro though. Instant purchase :¬)
Wow, that thing looks pretty damned cool, man.

Dumb question: Could I whack, say, the equivalent to or better than my 3.3GHz 2x6C 5680s in there, or whatever comes down the track? Would I need to keep upgrading the motherboard and so on?

Sorry. I should research this; I thought it was only something Mavericks(!) did, this Hackintosh thing, 'cause I well remember the days when Apple got its knickers in a knot about the Mac clones that appeared back in the '90s. Are things different now? Does Apple give a toss these days?

I should be fine on my machine for quite some time you'd think, being 12C at 3.3GHz, so I wonder if the H'tosh thing will still be an option in a few years when I start to feel the CPU-grunt pinch. Thoughts?

Once again, sorry for all the questions, b0se, and thank you in advance mate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico Sergeant View Post
Not really I just put it into my small case with wheels along with cloths or whatever else I might need.
Ah... thank you, Rico.
Old 16th June 2016
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastlanephil View Post
I record to a HDD. I've read that a SSD may develop issues from a lot of over writing. Maybe it depends on how much recording you're doing and the size of the SSD.
I do tons of recording and video onto the 1TB internal SSD, its extremely fast and is totally reliable I have found.
Old 16th June 2016
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanScott View Post
I've been using macs since 2007 but I'm so on the fence with going Dell for my next upgrade..

I'm looking into a recording laptop... and I don't want to pay $3000 for the outdated Macbooks when I can get that Dell XPS 13 for a fraction and it has way better specs.

I'm just wondering if I can live without logic and move onto another DAW... and how UA products will work with it (Looking into the Apollo Twin) and eventually apollo 8's.

Is it worth it to relearn windows 10 or get the laptop and run a hackintosh?? thoughts?
What's wrong with the current lineup of macs? Why do you need the latest and greatest processor? I have a 2012 MacBook Pro that runs all the most system intensive plugins by the dozens. I think if you went Windows you would miss all that made you love Mac OS in the first place. And specs isn't everything. I bought a $4000 dell xps desktop in 2007 and spent half my time kicking it and the other half configuring it. My dual core MacBook Pro just worked on the other hand. I'm sure machines now are a lot better, and the touchscreen laptops seem enticing, but I'm afraid that just like with every Windows of I ever bought, it ended up making me pull my hair at some point. I don't get that feeling on Mac. Plus core audio is so much better than asio4all.
Old 16th June 2016
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceman View Post
At everyone disappointed because of no hardware annoucement : WWDC ( World Wide DEVELOPERS Conference) has traditionally always been about software development and announcing the new Operating Systems (iOS, OSX, etc..) . It's quite rare that they make any major hardware announcement during that event. Hardware usually gets its own events a few times a year. We already know that major new MacBook Pros are to be released in the fall, possibly new MacPros. IPhones of course as well.

Be patient.
Thats not true at all. In fact its more of post-Steve Jobs thing that they don't.. When Jobs was calling the shots, they announced new hardware every year at the WWDC, unless none happened to be coming out. But they always seemed to have something ready to go just in time for the conference. I can remember new Intel revs being announced. The G5 was also announced at the WWDC. Tim Cook however, seems to think Apple's users are strictly iPhone and iPad users, and apparently has forgotten what user base made them enough money to waste so they could design what they call a phone. I watched most of this years WWDC and it was incredibly lame IMHO.
Old 16th June 2016
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monotremata View Post
... I can remember new Intel revs being announced. The G5 was also announced at the WWDC. ....
Again, the WWDC is a DEVELOPER conference. Developers are a widely different audience than regular users. Why do you think they announced new Intels, and the G5 at the WWDC ? Those were HUGE changes in the Mac lineup, and mostly pertaining to developers, since they impact them first because they sometimes had to completely rewrite their software to make it run on Intel processors. That was an earthquake in Apple's technical history. The introduction of the G5 also necessitated some major software rewriting from developers.

Most regular users know squat about the difference between 32 and 64 bit processors, nor interested about IBM G5 processors vs Motorola's G4 processors...
80% of Apple's hardware is announced usually outside of WWDC. Most of the hardware that do get announced at WWDC is usually either massive changes in internal architecture, or massive changes in the high-end line-up ( the "trashcan" MP ), etc..

We already know there will be no massive or radical changes coming up this year. The new MBP are expected to have the much delayed Skylake processors, better graphics from AMD, thinner, multiple USB-C connectors, and probably the rumored OLED function keyboard. Evolutionnary, but nothing earthshaking enough to announce it so early or have developers adjust their software to some wild changes..

Same with the Mac Pros, expected to get the latest Intel processors, latest graphics cards, USB-C. They are going to be faster , that's all. Again, nothing that would justify announcing it at WWDC instead of a seperate hardware conference later this year, along with the usual iPhone/Pad/Watch/Hairdryer..

Last edited by spaceman; 16th June 2016 at 11:07 AM..
Old 16th June 2016
  #40
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noah330's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by That Other Guy View Post
What's wrong with the current lineup of macs?
No PCie slots for me.
Old 16th June 2016
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah330 View Post
No PCie slots for me.
There are a ton of pcie enclosures through thunderbolt. 99.99% of people don't need pcie so why should they include it in the desktop and make it 3x the size?
Old 16th June 2016
  #42
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I guess if I'm going to pay $3000 for a MacPro I don't want to have to pay an extra $400 or so for an external chassis.

I run ProTools HD, so I need the card. You asked what was missing from their current line of computers. That's what's keeping me from upgrading.

As much as I dislike Windows I'll probably go that route in the future.

I can understand no slots on a Mini, iMac, etc.... But I wish the pro machine had that option. IMHO they took the slots away before their time.
Old 16th June 2016
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah330 View Post
I guess if I'm going to pay $3000 for a MacPro I don't want to have to pay an extra $400 or so for an external chassis.

I run ProTools HD, so I need the card. You asked what was missing from their current line of computers. That's what's keeping me from upgrading.

As much as I dislike Windows I'll probably go that route in the future.

I can understand no slots on a Mini, iMac, etc.... But I wish the pro machine had that option. IMHO they took the slots away before their time.
Is pro tools HD even required anymore? Why not just protools 12?
Old 16th June 2016
  #44
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jsvalmont's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by That Other Guy View Post
Is pro tools HD even required anymore? Why not just protools 12?
Yes, HD Native card won't be recognized by PT12 non-HD.
Old 16th June 2016
  #45
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jsvalmont's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah330 View Post
I guess if I'm going to pay $3000 for a MacPro I don't want to have to pay an extra $400 or so for an external chassis.

I run ProTools HD, so I need the card. You asked what was missing from their current line of computers. That's what's keeping me from upgrading.

As much as I dislike Windows I'll probably go that route in the future.

I can understand no slots on a Mini, iMac, etc.... But I wish the pro machine had that option. IMHO they took the slots away before their time.
Thunderbolt and PCIe HD Native cards sell for close to the same second hand. You could sell your pcie card and effectively trade it for a thunderbolt version and you won't have the need for PCIe slots anymore.
Old 16th June 2016
  #46
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I have thought about doing that, but it just isn't something I'm ready to do at this time. I can't imagine the headache I would go through if I had a problem with that box that I bought second hand.
Old 16th June 2016
  #47
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b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
Wow, that thing looks pretty damned cool, man.

Dumb question: Could I whack, say, the equivalent to or better than my 3.3GHz 2x6C 5680s in there, or whatever comes down the track? Would I need to keep upgrading the motherboard and so on?

Sorry. I should research this; I thought it was only something Mavericks(!) did, this Hackintosh thing, 'cause I well remember the days when Apple got its knickers in a knot about the Mac clones that appeared back in the '90s. Are things different now? Does Apple give a toss these days?

I should be fine on my machine for quite some time you'd think, being 12C at 3.3GHz, so I wonder if the H'tosh thing will still be an option in a few years when I start to feel the CPU-grunt pinch. Thoughts?

Once again, sorry for all the questions, b0se, and thank you in advance mate.

Ah... thank you, Rico.
Any CPU a MacPro uses, you can use in a Hackintosh. In fact you have more options :¬)

There are lots of builds (and info) on the TonyMac site linked in my previous post. Have a rummage around.

Apple don't care. In fact it does them good - people that can't afford macs still use OSX via hacks, which ties them into Apple's other services/products. They win still. Plus, once you buy software (OSX), it's yours to do with as you will. There's another thread on this subject - basically Apple (or anyone) can't uphold the EULA as the software is deemed a product. Which in turn means the buyer can do whatever they like with it once purchased.
Old 16th June 2016
  #48
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by That Other Guy View Post
What's wrong with the current lineup of macs? Why do you need the latest and greatest processor? I have a 2012 MacBook Pro that runs all the most system intensive plugins by the dozens. I think if you went Windows you would miss all that made you love Mac OS in the first place. And specs isn't everything. I bought a $4000 dell xps desktop in 2007 and spent half my time kicking it and the other half configuring it. My dual core MacBook Pro just worked on the other hand. I'm sure machines now are a lot better, and the touchscreen laptops seem enticing, but I'm afraid that just like with every Windows of I ever bought, it ended up making me pull my hair at some point. I don't get that feeling on Mac. Plus core audio is so much better than asio4all.
The thing that's wrong is they're still charging outrageous prices for the Macbook pro lineup when they haven't updated in over a year and that processor was even from the year or two before that.

I don't want to switch because of your reasons, I'm so used to it and it's worked seamlessly for me for almost a decade... I was just entertaining the thought of switching to a more powerful system for half the cost (I'm considering switching from Logic to Reaper/Studio one anyways) so I feel like it would be a fresh transition.

However I probably will just wait till September when the new Mac models are (hopefully) released and stick with what I know... the thought of a hackintosh system just gives me headaches when it comes to updating and I'd rather spend my time making music rather than dealing with that nonsense.

I feel like a new Macbook Pro with upgraded RAM will cover pretty much anything I need.

I also still have my 2010 Mac Pro... is it worth it to upgrade the Processor or is that considered too expensive of an upgrade? I just wanted the Macbook down the road to bring to the jamspace and work to record/mix on the fly.
Old 16th June 2016
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanScott View Post
The thing that's wrong is they're still charging outrageous prices for the Macbook pro lineup when they haven't updated in over a year and that processor was even from the year or two before that.

I don't want to switch because of your reasons, I'm so used to it and it's worked seamlessly for me for almost a decade... I was just entertaining the thought of switching to a more powerful system for half the cost (I'm considering switching from Logic to Reaper/Studio one anyways) so I feel like it would be a fresh transition.

However I probably will just wait till September when the new Mac models are (hopefully) released and stick with what I know... the thought of a hackintosh system just gives me headaches when it comes to updating and I'd rather spend my time making music rather than dealing with that nonsense.

I feel like a new Macbook Pro with upgraded RAM will cover pretty much anything I need.

I also still have my 2010 Mac Pro... is it worth it to upgrade the Processor or is that considered too expensive of an upgrade? I just wanted the Macbook down the road to bring to the jamspace and work to record/mix on the fly.
You are right about the headaches. Hackintoshes are more trouble than they are worth from my experience. Unless you are one of those who never wants to update the OS on their system, in which case it is perfect for you. Of course, YMMV.

P.S. Also, Hackintoshes are limited to supporting the CPU family that is supported natively in OSX. That means that you can't really use newer than 3 year old i7 -E processors in your builds because Apple hasn't supported any of them.
Old 17th June 2016
  #50
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Hmm... definitely food for thought, jsvalmont.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanScott View Post
I also still have my 2010 Mac Pro... is it worth it to upgrade the Processor or is that considered too expensive of an upgrade? I just wanted the Macbook down the road to bring to the jamspace and work to record/mix on the fly.
Cheap, mate.

Take a look at the 5680 and 5690 CPUs. 3.3GHz+ and 6 cores, so if you can install two, which is what I did, you'll get 12 cores @ 3.3GHz or more. Nothing to sneeze at, and for a couple o' hundred bucks.

For me it was as simple as removing the old CPUs, applying a little Arctic Silver™ and whacking the new ones in. I did it on my bed with nothing but an allen key and a strip of cardboard to smear the Arctic Silver™ and no issues. Mind you, it's advisable to do it in a dust-free environment (my bedroom had lint particles flying around; I could see them in the sunlight) and to not use cardboard, but rather a credit-card sort of piece of plastic 'cause cardboard releases particles.

My point is that even for someone who's never attempted anything like this before, it was dead-easy and took perhaps half an hour or less, including all the, "Wow, look at this" and "What's that?" moments.

I say go for it man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Jones Sr View Post
There is no defending the lack of a 'different type of' Mac Pro. It's social engineering by Apple and absolutely nothing else. People are building hackintosh systems using i7 processors that are faster than the Mac Pros, with more expandability. If a guy can do a bit of internet research and buy compatible parts then build it himself, I'm pretty sure Apple with their country-sized cash pool, being the OS vendor themselves, with their engineers could make the headless Mini/Mac Pro tower type machine that just about every audio and video guy is asking for. It's not rocket surgery, just an expandable smaller-than-cheese-grater new machine with USB3 (type C if you like), PCI-E slots (not just for expansion cards but basically to allow different GPU choices), multiple SATA ports (these could even be SSD ONLY sized if you insist on a smaller prettier 'Apple-fied' machine). Hell it could look like a larger black dustbin if you like, just put a couple of PCI-E ports on, a row of 4 little SSD slots that grip an SSD without cabling. Win! This is the problem with Apple, the OS does generally work better for audio than Windows, but man you do have to put up with Apple telling you how it's going to be. There isn't really a lot of choice, like you would have in PC land.
Amen, brother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah330 View Post
IMHO they took the slots away before their time.
... and Amen to that too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Any CPU a MacPro uses, you can use in a Hackintosh. In fact you have more options :¬)

There are lots of builds (and info) on the TonyMac site linked in my previous post. Have a rummage around.

Apple don't care. In fact it does them good - people that can't afford macs still use OSX via hacks, which ties them into Apple's other services/products. They win still. Plus, once you buy software (OSX), it's yours to do with as you will. There's another thread on this subject - basically Apple (or anyone) can't uphold the EULA as the software is deemed a product. Which in turn means the buyer can do whatever they like with it once purchased.
Thank you, b0se!
Old 17th June 2016
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvalmont View Post
You are right about the headaches. Hackintoshes are more trouble than they are worth from my experience. Unless you are one of those who never wants to update the OS on their system, in which case it is perfect for you. Of course, YMMV.

P.S. Also, Hackintoshes are limited to supporting the CPU family that is supported natively in OSX. That means that you can't really use newer than 3 year old i7 -E processors in your builds because Apple hasn't supported any of them.
You bring up a good point and I wonder how the same applies to GPU, particuarly with Retina screens (which aren't "Retina" if on a Hackintosh, but whatever the WIN/LINUX equivalent is.)
Old 17th June 2016
  #52
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I took the plunge on an Apple refurb 8 core trash can plus 64 gigs of OWC RAM last year. No complaints. It might be the quietest computer I have ever [not] heard as a bonus.
Old 17th June 2016
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antichef View Post
I took the plunge on an Apple refurb 8 core trash can plus 64 gigs of OWC RAM last year. No complaints. It might be the quietest computer I have ever [not] heard as a bonus.
The Apple Refurb store is often overlooked by a lot of people ( and Apple seems to hide it a bit as well ). I got some great deals there in the past.
Old 17th June 2016
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
Don't you also have to carry the variously-shaped-and-sized peripherals, Rico?

I'd have thought that external chassis for cards, drives, cables and whatnot, when taken along with your nMP, would make for a logistical nightmare when compared to a single cheese grater.
I am talking about working in two studio's mainly, both studio's have monitors and cables already, I don't use PCIE cards, so I only need the mac and a couple of SSD, I realise this isn't a usual case scenario, but for me it works out great.

As I have said though I totally understand why some people don't like it, but I also think that if you are just using it in one location then it isn't so bad even with some peripherals, I guess if you use PCIE cards then that could be a bit much but I suspect most people don't use cards anymore, so that really only leaves the Hard drives which I prefer external anyway because they are so easy to swap in a good dock.

Apple isn't going to go back to big enclosures, so I just hope they continue to make high end powerful mac pro's, if they stop then I think it would be a big loss, so I look to the positives and try to get the best out of it, I think its pretty impressive to have a mac so powerful that I can just grab with one hand and throw into a bag, that runs almost silent, and uses so little electric, I like it.
Old 17th June 2016
  #55
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jwh1192's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico Sergeant View Post
I am talking about working in two studio's mainly, both studio's have monitors and cables already, I don't use PCIE cards, so I only need the mac and a couple of SSD, I realise this isn't a usual case scenario, but for me it works out great.
here is a MacPro 6-core on the ipowerresale.com site .. these are usually 3399.00 at the Apple Refurb ... 2013 Mac Pro 3.5GHz 6-core | ipowerresale

may i ask ... are these studio's using a Thunderbolt Connection ?? or how are you just talking Mac and SSD's ... ?? curious as East West had a room setup with just an HD native box with a TB cable on a table for a producer ...

thank you ..
Old 17th June 2016
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 View Post
here is a MacPro 6-core on the ipowerresale.com site .. these are usually 3399.00 at the Apple Refurb ... 2013 Mac Pro 3.5GHz 6-core | ipowerresale

may i ask ... are these studio's using a Thunderbolt Connection ?? or how are you just talking Mac and SSD's ... ?? curious as East West had a room setup with just an HD native box with a TB cable on a table for a producer ...

thank you ..
Yes Thunderbolt, also I use the internal SSD a lot for recording it is so fast its ridiculous, never had any problems.
Old 17th June 2016
  #57
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jwh1192's Avatar
right on ... thank you ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico Sergeant View Post
Yes Thunderbolt, also I use the internal SSD a lot for recording it is so fast its ridiculous, never had any problems.
Old 17th June 2016
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antichef View Post
I took the plunge on an Apple refurb 8 core trash can plus 64 gigs of OWC RAM last year. No complaints. It might be the quietest computer I have ever [not] heard as a bonus.
But don't you need the latest and greatest i7 processor to make music?
Old 17th June 2016
  #59
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Originally Posted by That Other Guy View Post
But don't you need the latest and greatest i7 processor to make music?
haha - the trash can was such a jump up for me from my 2008 MBP that I felt like I was released from heavy chains. There are some soft synths (I'm looking at you Bazille) than can peg one of those 16 threads though.

I record to the internal SSD (*way* faster than it ever needs to be) with a thunderbolt interface. I also record to an external SSD in a USB3 enclosure - I was disappointed with the TB external drive market. The transfer rate on the USB3 drive is still well above what's needed. I had some access time issues before I enabled 'trim' but now those seem to have gone away.
Old 17th June 2016
  #60
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The more cores, the better. Because real threads matter.

Apple has so much money, they could develop two competing lines of computers in parallel.
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