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Logic users: What is your opinion on Universal Track Mode?
Old 8th February 2007
  #1
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Logic users: What is your opinion on Universal Track Mode?

I'm not sure how I completely feel on this one. I just recently read up further on UTM, and I'm a curious. It states in the Logic reference guide that in UTM all stereo interleaved signals (left and right) are played back at the same level, regardless if the "left side" is lower than the "right side".

And when it is NOT in UTM that the stereo track recieves different levels for the left and right signals. Meaning that if a plugin is inserted on a stereo track when NOT in UTM, both left and right signals are processed according to the their fluctuating levels.

I wasn't aware that the stereo tracks in UTM were being playback at equal level, that essentailly messes with the perception of that actual mix. - I'd much rather use NON-UTM to have an accurate interpetation of my stereo signals. But making that switch requires a huge change in workflow and a recontruction in the environment.

Is anybody using NON-Universal Track Mode? If so please give us some insight on the topic.

Thanx ahead...
Old 8th February 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agno View Post
Is anybody using NON-Universal Track Mode? If so please give us some insight on the topic.
.
i do. let's me adjust 2 different (but close) settings on stereo stuff and mix2bus, let's me have a wider mix. not unlike PT and what Charles Dye mentions in his MiLAR DVD.

kinda PITA to adjust 2 plugins at once, but once you get used to it it's not so bad.

i consider the flexibility a good thing.

from Logic's manual: "Please note that the Universal Track Mode has limited routing capabilities, as it is not possible to handle the left and right audio channel separately."
Old 8th February 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblotted View Post
i do. let's me adjust 2 different (but close) settings on stereo stuff and mix2bus, let's me have a wider mix. not unlike PT and what Charles Dye mentions in his MiLAR DVD.
Can you go into more detail as to how it allows you to have a wider mix?

PS..... that harddrive issue I had is gone... thanx for the help.
Old 8th February 2007
  #4
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I use UTM and use the Direction mixer on stereo traks tro control width, placement in the stereo field, etc.
Old 9th February 2007
  #5
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it's whack . when you pan a stereo track to the left the right side simple dissapears. non linked stereo track in logic is even worse thought. good luck keeping takes organized. dir mixer is logics work around.

waiting for logic 8 here.
Old 9th February 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agno View Post
Can you go into more detail as to how it allows you to have a wider mix?

PS..... that harddrive issue I had is gone... thanx for the help.
go to this link and watch "saturation and the mix bus":

http://www.harddisklife.com/Pages/Basic/A_V.html

i find direction mixer works well only if you wanna tighten the stereo image. and when i say "well", it's real broad. to widen, it's just kind of so-so. ymmv.

quincyg, what you're experiencing regarding disapperance happens with pan law settings at 0dB. try it with -3 or -3 compensated and tell me if you hear the same thing happening.

if you know how to work with "Grouping" function in Logic, keeping stereo tracks organized is a breeze (okay, not a super breeze but simple enough).
Old 9th February 2007
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblotted View Post
go to this link and watch "saturation and the mix bus":

http://www.harddisklife.com/Pages/Basic/A_V.html

i find direction mixer works well only if you wanna tighten the stereo image. and when i say "well", it's real broad. to widen, it's just kind of so-so. ymmv.

quincyg, what you're experiencing regarding disapperance happens with pan law settings at 0dB. try it with -3 or -3 compensated and tell me if you hear the same thing happening.

if you know how to work with "Grouping" function in Logic, keeping stereo tracks organized is a breeze (okay, not a super breeze but simple enough).
Hey thanx for the link.... So do all stereo plugins treat both left and right singals the same as if in "UTM"? Is it better to treat stereo tracks as using multi-mono plugins, so that the left and right are being treated based on the levels of each side? If so, how do YOU do this in Logic?
Old 9th February 2007
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblotted View Post
i do. let's me adjust 2 different (but close) settings on stereo stuff and mix2bus, let's me have a wider mix. not unlike PT and what Charles Dye mentions in his MiLAR DVD.

Also, in NON-UTM, just so I'm clear on it... If you link, for example; tracks 1&2 using the link stereo button on the lower left corner of the audio object, does it output the stereo audio the same in ACTIVE-UTM?

I'm trying to figure out if a linked stereo track in Logic while using NON-UTM will output the stereo track accurately, opposed to the same level. Or does the track have to UNLINKED in order to achieve this?
Old 10th February 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agno View Post
Hey thanx for the link.... So do all stereo plugins treat both left and right singals the same as if in "UTM"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agno View Post
Also, in NON-UTM, just so I'm clear on it... If you link, for example; tracks 1&2 using the link stereo button on the lower left corner of the audio object, does it output the stereo audio the same in ACTIVE-UTM?
i believe so. that's the reason why you wanna split'em, instead of controlling both together with 1 stereo object.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agno View Post
Is it better to treat stereo tracks as using multi-mono plugins, so that the left and right are being treated based on the levels of each side? If so, how do YOU do this in Logic?
i only split the stereo into dual-mono when i can. say if you start with Piano VI like Ivory , which is stereo to begin with, i won't split'em. but say with drum bus or return, mos def dual-mono. just set up 2 different bus' or tracks, group'em together.

"better" is subjective term, so you really gotta experiment and see what works and what doesn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agno View Post
I'm trying to figure out if a linked stereo track in Logic while using NON-UTM will output the stereo track accurately, opposed to the same level. Or does the track have to UNLINKED in order to achieve this?
Unlinked to achieve it.

but be real careful tho, when you do 2mixbus with Non-UTM, you'll get some phase issues in the center. always double-check your kick/snare/bass/vox.

esp when you have something like Reason Drum Kit, where it'll play a different sample for each pass... when you bounce, you gotta do 2 bounces separately. this means when you combine them, the inst will sound like it's in the middle sometimes, and other times it'll get sucked into the background.

couple solutions:
1) to send the final output out AD/DA, and record it back into Logic so you'll get the same "take" for any varied samples. this is good practice anyway, cuz bounce feature is only to be trusted 90% of the time. for me anyway.
2) send said sample AD/DA for outboard treatment, and bring back in single mono as audio file. once it's audio, no more drift or phase.

have fun.
Old 10th February 2007
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblotted View Post
i find direction mixer works well only if you wanna tighten the stereo image. and when i say "well", it's real broad. to widen, it's just kind of so-so. ymmv.

quincyg, what you're experiencing regarding disapperance happens with pan law settings at 0dB. try it with -3 or -3 compensated and tell me if you hear the same thing happening.

if you know how to work with "Grouping" function in Logic, keeping stereo tracks organized is a breeze (okay, not a super breeze but simple enough).
I respectfully will disagree about the Direction Mixer and agree with -3db compensated.
Old 10th February 2007
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblotted View Post
go to this link and watch "saturation and the mix bus":

http://www.harddisklife.com/Pages/Basic/A_V.html

i find direction mixer works well only if you wanna tighten the stereo image. and when i say "well", it's real broad. to widen, it's just kind of so-so. ymmv.

quincyg, what you're experiencing regarding disapperance happens with pan law settings at 0dB. try it with -3 or -3 compensated and tell me if you hear the same thing happening.

if you know how to work with "Grouping" function in Logic, keeping stereo tracks organized is a breeze (okay, not a super breeze but simple enough).

good to know about the -3 setting. unfortunately grouping does not actually group tracks in the arrange window and logic will split up grouped tracks when creating new takes. i actually recently got fed up with logic and switched to digital performer. it is working better for.

i am eagerly waiting for logic 8 before i decide if i am with dp for the long haul.
Old 11th February 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quincyg View Post
unfortunately grouping does not actually group tracks in the arrange window
depends on what you wanna do. some stuff you can't do, e.g. creating fades in groups. but editing or zoom you can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quincyg View Post
logic will split up grouped tracks when creating new takes.
never happened to me, unless i'm reading you wrong. what do you mean by "split up"?

just to make sure, i'm not talking about selecting a group of regions in arrange window; but actually assigning group #s on the track, and setting group parameters. i never had grouping disabled on me..
Old 12th February 2007
  #13
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theblotted,

thanx for all the help and info... I'm currently working on a track now in NON-UTM... and it sounds exactly they way I expected it to. I can actually hear the true stereo image this way.

I'll keep you guys updated....

thanx again.... -AGNO
Old 12th February 2007
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quincyg View Post
good to know about the -3 setting. unfortunately grouping does not actually group tracks in the arrange window and logic will split up grouped tracks when creating new takes. i actually recently got fed up with logic and switched to digital performer. it is working better for.

i am eagerly waiting for logic 8 before i decide if i am with dp for the long haul.
I haven't experienced any of the grouping problems that you are... you may want to trash your preferences and go from there because that sounds like a bug of some sort. Maybe your autoload is damaged....


I hope that helps.
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