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RME RayDat + Apogee Rosetta 800 Audio Interfaces
Old 21st April 2016
  #1
Here for the gear
 

RME RayDat + Apogee Rosetta 800

I am considering to get a RME RayDat and connect my Rosetta 800 via ADAT or AES/EBU with it to my Mac Tower. I am woking on Logic.

I heard that it might be quite stable option & I am wondering if anybody of You guys is using this setup. Or at least RME RayDat with other ADDA converter experience ?

All the best.
Old 21st April 2016
  #2
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The RME Raydat is ADAT not AES/EBU (there is another RME card interface for the AES format), so check their site for product info. If going ADAT then you are limited to 44.1k or 48k sample rate for the full 8 channels per ADAT port as per ADAT protacol, however when you double the sample rate, you halve the channel count. Thus at 88.2k or 96k sample rate you get reduced down to 4 channels per ADAT port. So basically, if you use higher sample rates then use the AES format on your converter to get it's full 8 channels of conversion. IF going with ADAT and you have a free PCI slot then look at grabbing a used RME 9652 interface card ($300 used - grab the newer version with 2 midi I/O). The RME Raydat is the newer version of this card and uses a PCIe slot.

RME makes great PCI /PCIe card interfaces with some of the best lowest latency performance.

One other thing is that your converter has unterminated wordclock so when setting up clocking, likely your best bet is to make the Rosetta Master, take wordclock out of it to the RME wordclock in and set the RME for termination (it's a jumper on their card).
Old 21st April 2016
  #3
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Bassmankr - Thanks for reply and usefull informations!

I was shure that RME Raydat also have 1 x AES/EBU I/O (192 kHz). This is how I understood information from their page:

RME: HDSPe RayDAT

on the right under "Connectivity" panel.

I was wondering how it is working in practice, I have oportunity to buy this card (RayDat) for 350$ and my Rosetta 800 is waiting..
Old 22nd April 2016
  #4
Lives for gear
The raydat does have aes, but it's two channel.

I have the raydat and love it. Except I bought a "mint" open box unit and the little flap door over the adat out 1-8 was missing. I stupidly took a further discount from the store instead of returning it. Now the cable falls out every time I so much as breathe on it. So don't make that mistake!
Anyhow the raydat goes to a lynx aurora 16 channel and a lucid 88192 via adat. I use the aes for my Bricasti. Works great, but I ended up having to buy the additional word clock card because the lucid wasn't syncing right over adat. So keep a spare $175 in mind for that eventuality.
Old 22nd April 2016
  #5
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$350 for a used Raydat is a fantastic price however if you read the linked page you posted about the RME Raydat card you will see that it's AES/EBU is via a XLR connector which means 2 channels AES I/O, not the 8 channels you are trying to use it for. This leaves you with only the ADAT port to transfer 8 channels from the Rosetta to the Raydat card. So what I stated in my other post applies, if you want 8 channels of AES you need to use a different RME card made for that (it's going to have a DB25 connector just like the Rosetta).

If you want to learn more about the various digital formats hit search here or google as there is plenty info on the net to get you up to speed about each format's pros and cons in addition to what connectors / cables it uses.

If you go with AES/EBU remember that any cable you use needs to have a 110 ohm impedance (Either 8 channel snake with DB25 connectors or 2 channel with XLR connectors). Sometimes this is referred to as "digital cable" by those who sell it.

Edit: looks like 808 beat me to it while I was writing up this reply LOL
Old 22nd April 2016
  #6
Here for the gear
 

Thank You guys for sharing all those informations!


808KickDrum - I will check those flap door in this unit for sure.


Bassmankr - is there any possibility to "sum up" those 4 ADAT ports to get full 8 channels of higher conversion ?
Old 22nd April 2016
  #7
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Yes, you can get higher conversion rates if you use two cables to the Rosetta and put it in smux mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartek.persich View Post
Thank You guys for sharing all those informations!


808KickDrum - I will check those flap door in this unit for sure.


Bassmankr - is there any possibility to "sum up" those 4 ADAT ports to get full 8 channels of higher conversion ?
Old 22nd April 2016
  #8
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808 is right again! After downloading the Rosetta manual and taking a quick look you are in luck that it has two ADAT ports out (most 8 channel units would only have one), thus you can run 4 channels at 88.2k - 96k sample rate on one ADAT port and another 4 channels on the second ADAT port of the Rosetta (see page 8 of your manual). Run those over to the Raydat and you are set for the higher sample rates. You then can run clocking via the ADAT cable or probably the better option of using a wordclock cable between units (see my above post for that).
Old 26th June 2016
  #9
This thread has been informative. I'm thinking about abandoning my Mac and going to PC but would like to keep using my Rosetta 800.

Would it be better to go for the RME HDSPe AES or the RME HDSPe RayDAT ?

I don't have any experience with these digital formats, but it seems like AES cabling is more robust and widely used? I'm currently using the Rosetta 800 + Symphony on an old Mac Pro.
Old 26th June 2016
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishy1500 View Post
This thread has been informative. I'm thinking about abandoning my Mac and going to PC but would like to keep using my Rosetta 800.

Would it be better to go for the RME HDSPe AES or the RME HDSPe RayDAT ?

I don't have any experience with these digital formats, but it seems like AES cabling is more robust and widely used? I'm currently using the Rosetta 800 + Symphony on an old Mac Pro.
Both mentioned digital formats are widely used.. Although ADAT Lightpipe is maybe more common at lower priced interfaces or where you have limited panel space.

Couple of elementary differences are -
AES transmit audio by 2 channel pairs regardless of used rate (excluding very old double wire implementations mostly from '90s), ADAT by 8/4/2 according to used rate (S/MUX means splitting of signal to multiple Lightpipe channels to achieve higher rate). So AES doesn't require such trickery and lets say HDSPe AES has always 16 channels up to 192k. Whereas for a RayDat this means 32 channels at 44.1/48k, half at 88.2/96k and so on.
That's one of main reason, I like AES.

AES requires bit more expensive metallic DB25 cables with correct pinout.. For your case, there is need to have one side terminated according to Yamaha pinout (Apogee) and other side terminated according to Tascam pinout (RME), so just be sure to possibly order right cable for that.

On the other hand, with AES there is possible to use also DB25 to XLR looms, where you can connect several AES devices (like 2ch monitor converter or reverb unit with digital I/O) to the one interface at computer.

ADAT Lightpipe runs via plastic fibre cables.. in fixed studio installations there aren't much issues with mechanical reliability IME, as you likely won't reconnect it every day. Although generally, its not the best idea to purchase cheapest optical cables you'll find at net, such cables can have worse connector with bad fit (loose tolerances) and higher optical dispersion.. so you can sometimes experience very hard to debug dropouts.

Both HDSPe RayDat and HDSPe AES works well. The AES model has wordclock I/O built-in, whereas RayDat needs additional option for that. At our second mastering rig we use HDSPe AES.

Aside from that.. Depending on your Symphony Mk1. Module configuration.. (eg 8x8) it might supports also standalone mode via AES/ADAT..
Symphony I/O: Audio Interface Mode (AIM)*|*Apogee KnowledgeBase
So you'll set appropriate routing at Maestro for one time and then you'll able to use it with RME card at PC.
So lets say with HDSPe AES, you'll connect first DB25 to Rosetta and second DB25 to Symphony (assuming there is 8x8 dig. card).

Michal
Old 28th June 2016
  #11
Thanks for the details, that was really helpful!

My setup is pretty simple at the moment, just have a Rosetta 800 with a Symphony 64 PCIe card so thinking about replacing the symphony card. Would I need to use a word clock cable with either the HDSPe AES or RayDAT? Never used this before so not exactly sure how that would work.

Thanks,
Maru

Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
Both mentioned digital formats are widely used.. Although ADAT Lightpipe is maybe more common at lower priced interfaces or where you have limited panel space.

Couple of elementary differences are -
AES transmit audio by 2 channel pairs regardless of used rate (excluding very old double wire implementations mostly from '90s), ADAT by 8/4/2 according to used rate (S/MUX means splitting of signal to multiple Lightpipe channels to achieve higher rate). So AES doesn't require such trickery and lets say HDSPe AES has always 16 channels up to 192k. Whereas for a RayDat this means 32 channels at 44.1/48k, half at 88.2/96k and so on.
That's one of main reason, I like AES.

AES requires bit more expensive metallic DB25 cables with correct pinout.. For your case, there is need to have one side terminated according to Yamaha pinout (Apogee) and other side terminated according to Tascam pinout (RME), so just be sure to possibly order right cable for that.

On the other hand, with AES there is possible to use also DB25 to XLR looms, where you can connect several AES devices (like 2ch monitor converter or reverb unit with digital I/O) to the one interface at computer.

ADAT Lightpipe runs via plastic fibre cables.. in fixed studio installations there aren't much issues with mechanical reliability IME, as you likely won't reconnect it every day. Although generally, its not the best idea to purchase cheapest optical cables you'll find at net, such cables can have worse connector with bad fit (loose tolerances) and higher optical dispersion.. so you can sometimes experience very hard to debug dropouts.

Both HDSPe RayDat and HDSPe AES works well. The AES model has wordclock I/O built-in, whereas RayDat needs additional option for that. At our second mastering rig we use HDSPe AES.

Aside from that.. Depending on your Symphony Mk1. Module configuration.. (eg 8x8) it might supports also standalone mode via AES/ADAT..
Symphony I/O: Audio Interface Mode (AIM)*|*Apogee KnowledgeBase
So you'll set appropriate routing at Maestro for one time and then you'll able to use it with RME card at PC.
So lets say with HDSPe AES, you'll connect first DB25 to Rosetta and second DB25 to Symphony (assuming there is 8x8 dig. card).

Michal
Old 28th June 2016
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishy1500 View Post
Thanks for the details, that was really helpful!

My setup is pretty simple at the moment, just have a Rosetta 800 with a Symphony 64 PCIe card so thinking about replacing the symphony card. Would I need to use a word clock cable with either the HDSPe AES or RayDAT? Never used this before so not exactly sure how that would work.

Thanks,
Maru
Hi Maru,
I thougth you was referring to Symphony box, that's why I've expanded about standalone mode.. alright, makes sense.

Wordclock connection isn't necessary for your simple setup, you can sync both RayDat and HDSPe AES from ADAT or AES inputs respectively.

I've just mentioned about that option, because sometimes (typically in setups, where you're using multiple digital audio devices and switching sample rates between different projects and every device will follow changes on master) wordclock is most reliable way for syncing.

It will work pretty simple.. Rosetta is being your only converter at system, so you'll set that as a clock master. Then all sample rate changes will be controlled from its front panel.. RME card will be set to get sync from either first connected ADAT input, first connected AES input pair or wordclock input.

Third option will require one additional BNC-BNC cable suitable for wordclock signal with 75ohm typical impedance. RME cards has option for internal wc termination, so you'll set that on.
If you'll decide to go with HDSPe AES or Raydat with WC option, you may try also that. Some people feel audible differences between different clocking setups, but it isn't really my experience.. when converter is set to be master and RME card is slaving to that, then it sounded pretty much indistinguishable regardless of used sync to me.

Michal
Old 28th June 2016
  #13
Awesome, thanks again for the detailed explanation, I really appreciate it! I now have a much better picture of the different options available and am getting closer to moving away from my Mac (never thought I'd say that...)

Cheers,
Maru


Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
Hi Maru,
I thougth you was referring to Symphony box, that's why I've expanded about standalone mode.. alright, makes sense.

Wordclock connection isn't necessary for your simple setup, you can sync both RayDat and HDSPe AES from ADAT or AES inputs respectively.

I've just mentioned about that option, because sometimes (typically in setups, where you're using multiple digital audio devices and switching sample rates between different projects and every device will follow changes on master) wordclock is most reliable way for syncing.

It will work pretty simple.. Rosetta is being your only converter at system, so you'll set that as a clock master. Then all sample rate changes will be controlled from its front panel.. RME card will be set to get sync from either first connected ADAT input, first connected AES input pair or wordclock input.

Third option will require one additional BNC-BNC cable suitable for wordclock signal with 75ohm typical impedance. RME cards has option for internal wc termination, so you'll set that on.
If you'll decide to go with HDSPe AES or Raydat with WC option, you may try also that. Some people feel audible differences between different clocking setups, but it isn't really my experience.. when converter is set to be master and RME card is slaving to that, then it sounded pretty much indistinguishable regardless of used sync to me.

Michal
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