The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
What's with Apple and composers (and classical music in particular)? Studio Headphones
Old 2nd April 2016
  #1
Lives for gear
 
nativeaudio's Avatar
 

What's with Apple and composers (and classical music in particular)?

I'm not a guy who is into conspiracy theories. Not at all. But if I would have been such a guy, I would have made up a theory about Apple having a secret plan to remove all focus on composers and (non-EDM-ish) composition methods, and in particular to ignore classical composers and classical music.

On my iPads, songs are usually listed without mention the composers at all. This is of course particularly annoying when listening to classical music, because "Etude in E minor" is a "track name" shared with loads of other compositions; what I want to know is: who wrote this composition?

That situation is also frustrating because - in spite of having more than enough room on an iPad to show the full song name, they are often truncated (which of course is particularly frustrating when listening to classical music).

I have written a lot about Logic's lack of focus on composing oriented improvements in other threads, so I won't repeat that here. But Apple generally seems to simply ignore composing (as is "creating a musical piece containing a melody and a harmonic structure"-ish), and again: this is particularly clear with classical music. Today, for instance, I saw the banners in iTunes representing different musical styles, and when I clicked on each of them - iTunes showed me a selection of pieces within that genre - except when I clicked on "Classical".

Apple has a lot of power, and influence, in many ways, what kind of music we and our kids grow up with. And I do not think they're on a mission to downplay composers, or on a mission to have radio stations being filled with well EQ'ed and sometimes heavily compressed music - mainly "written" by people who aren't really interested in composing (people who actually don't know much about composing)... which is why I wonder: why are they almost systematically behaving as if this was their plan? Is it plain ignorance? A desperate need to keep/increase market share among young people? Something else?

Last edited by nativeaudio; 2nd April 2016 at 10:31 AM..
Old 2nd April 2016
  #3
Lives for gear
 
RRCHON's Avatar
Dumbing down is correct but not in the sense that the target audience is subject of the cognitive reduction.

I would assume that no programmer at Apple / iTunes has yet to be tasked with the task of breaking down the semantics and classification structure of classical music. Classical music is a very broad and general heading that is comprised of man sub-classes, periods, styles, re-orchestration, scale transposition, re-arrangement, etc... Though there are some already accepted classifications "romantic" , "Baroque", and so on one piece might straddle a few of those. As the logic (no pun intended) of classification becomes more complicated and turns into something resembling a multi-level Venn diagram the planing and discipline involved in coding for it and designing a data-base to classify it all efficiently gets quite messy.

I think it will come eventually as big-data and schema-less data storage becomes more and more common, but I would not expect changes until the foundation of what is the Apple / iTunes music catalog gets re-written or at least gets a major massage. Remember when those schema were created, technology was not what it is now and the guys tasked with the job of classification just could not foresee everything or might not have even considered what you are talking about.

At least that's my guess about it. Technology is pretty much style agnostic, companies are pretty much directive pressures combines with pass / fail mechanism for the paradigm views and time constrained production of their engineers (whether they are software engineering teams or building a rocket to Pluto) they will most likely not get it right the first,second,third,fourth,....... try and even if it all works like it should there is always room for improvement, but re-inventing the wheel itself takes commitment and a reason to do so.
Old 2nd April 2016
  #4
Lives for gear
 
nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRCHON View Post
Technology is pretty much style agnostic
Maybe, but still - the product designers are not. They know that Logic as a phenomenon has a function in society. Logics feature set may either cater well for all kinds of musical styles, or it may specially designed for young people with little knowledge about composing (or even interest in actually writing music).


Logic is very well equipped with tools needed for newbies to make loop based synth music, but often has problems in displaying the three notes in a simple triad correctly . It also - when two notes are shown at the same time, often shows only one of them (which I have mentioned several times in Logic threads). I don't think that's intentional.

I know I'm not the only one who sees Logic as a major component in the process of filling the air with music made by people with not so much interesting in composing. But I'm not sure that Apple's board of directions are aware that something as essential as the name of the composer (or the full name of a composition) often is non-existing in iTunes.

Ironically, both Cubase and Logic is made in Germany, in the Hamburg area, which was a center for composition. Maybe Apple, as a corporation, simply isn't interested in anything but "dumb" commercial music?

Three New Museums At Hamburg's Composers' Quarter | Hamburg News

In a way I like that Logic is being dumbed down, because when being in the midst og developing a musical idea, I'm rather "dumb" - and don't want to be drawn into reading manuals or other left brain activity. But IMHO they have gone way too far. They have in many ways made Logic so simple that it's difficult to make music which is slightly more complicated than easy going radio hits without going through a large number of left brain ponderings.

And - for a composer to survive, his or her name needs to be mentioned when their songs are listed in iTunes etc. That should be easy to implement. I don't know why they have chosen not to do it.
Old 2nd April 2016
  #5
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio View Post
... Logic is made in Germany, in the Hamburg area,
Not anymore. The Emagic guys are now in CA.
Old 2nd April 2016
  #6
Old 2nd April 2016
  #7
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio View Post
Quite sure. That job offer is for writing manuals:

https://jobs.apple.com/search?job=47...JobId=47098657

AFAIK, Dr. Lengeling is still head of Logic development:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Lengeling

https://www.linkedin.com/in/dlengeling
Old 2nd April 2016
  #8
Lives for gear
 
nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Quite sure. That job offer is for writing manuals:

https://jobs.apple.com/search?job=47...JobId=47098657

AFAIK, Dr. Lengeling is still head of Logic development:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Lengeling

https://www.linkedin.com/in/dlengeling
But why would they prefer to have a native English speaking manual writer in the Hamburg area if Logic solely is being developed in US? Not that it matters much where they are... :-)
Old 2nd April 2016
  #9
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio View Post
But why would they prefer to have a native English speaking manual writer in the Hamburg area if Logic solely is being developed in US?
Good question.
Old 2nd April 2016
  #10
Lives for gear
 
MusiKLover's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio View Post
Maybe, but still - the product designers are not. They know that Logic as a phenomenon has a function in society. Logics feature set may either cater well for all kinds of musical styles, or it may specially designed for young people with little knowledge about composing (or even interest in actually writing music).


Logic is very well equipped with tools needed for newbies to make loop based synth music, but often has problems in displaying the three notes in a simple triad correctly . It also - when two notes are shown at the same time, often shows only one of them (which I have mentioned several times in Logic threads). I don't think that's intentional.

I know I'm not the only one who sees Logic as a major component in the process of filling the air with music made by people with not so much interesting in composing. But I'm not sure that Apple's board of directions are aware that something as essential as the name of the composer (or the full name of a composition) often is non-existing in iTunes.

Ironically, both Cubase and Logic is made in Germany, in the Hamburg area, which was a center for composition. Maybe Apple, as a corporation, simply isn't interested in anything but "dumb" commercial music?

Three New Museums At Hamburg's Composers' Quarter | Hamburg News

In a way I like that Logic is being dumbed down, because when being in the midst og developing a musical idea, I'm rather "dumb" - and don't want to be drawn into reading manuals or other left brain activity. But IMHO they have gone way too far. They have in many ways made Logic so simple that it's difficult to make music which is slightly more complicated than easy going radio hits without going through a large number of left brain ponderings.

And - for a composer to survive, his or her name needs to be mentioned when their songs are listed in iTunes etc. That should be easy to implement. I don't know why they have chosen not to do it.
Native, all I have to say is if you find that Logic/ Apple caters to loop-based composing, check out Ableton, Bitwig, Maschine, and Fruity for a solid week-- and nothing else. Just those four. Then please report back
Old 2nd April 2016
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Leevi's Avatar
 

Unfortunately nowadays Apple seems to care more about creating "beats".
Old 2nd April 2016
  #12
Gear Addict
 
Dzilizi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusiKLover View Post
Native, all I have to say is if you find that Logic/ Apple caters to loop-based composing, check out Ableton, Bitwig, Maschine, and Fruity for a solid week-- and nothing else. Just those four. Then please report back
I would probably leave Ableton and Maschine off that list. They don't really advertise themselves to be more than EDM or loop based music production.



You are just talking iPad organization? Because I add composer to the computer version at the top. Amazon is the same. Looking at the classical stuff on my phone's music player and no composer listed. Not a problem for the Hallelujah Chorus, but definitely a problem for Toccata and Fugue in D Minor. Because I'm sure there was only one of those.

And what is really strange? The "artist" names? Don't know who the heck they are. Guessing the conductor? Key Instrumentalist? And it is probably more to do with database construction and limited room. My father who only listens to classical music does want to know which orchestra performed the piece. It matters to him in the way I might prefer one artist's version of a song over another. But I think the name that shows up wouldn't help him either.
Old 2nd April 2016
  #13
Lives for gear
 
nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MusiKLover View Post
Native, all I have to say is if you find that Logic/ Apple caters to loop-based composing, check out Ableton, Bitwig, Maschine, and Fruity for a solid week-- and nothing else. Just those four. Then please report back
Hi!
No, I'm not saying that - I'm not even interested in loop based composing. :-) Thanks anyway!
Old 2nd April 2016
  #14
Lives for gear
 
MusiKLover's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio View Post
Hi!
No, I'm not saying that - I'm not even interested in loop based composing. :-) Thanks anyway!
I thought so, and believe you might realize my side too. I was having a little fun with ya. Gotta sometimes stop and smell the roses, inject humor here and there, no matter how good or bad it actually is

Oh I know your position rather well, and you know mine too. I hope my comments are well received! I like ya Native. We don't always agree, but then again we don't always disagree, either. You: Expression Maps. Me: Live Loops.
Top Mentioned Products
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump