The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Water Cooling
Old 5th March 2016
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Water Cooling

Hi guys, new to here so not sure if this has been covered, but have seen some posts on computers and thought I would add my experience to maybe help the odd person interested.

Having had numerous computers over the last 20 years to run a variety of DAWs we are finally at the stage where you can future proof and the power is now enough…mostly.

I reached a wall a few weeks back when I could run all the VST programs on my i7 4770K, but once I loaded all the effects for mixing I hit 100% on the ASIO performance at 30% CPU use. At the end of a long day I would get glitches, with the VST effects open and all the pretty displays. But in the morning, when the computer was cool, it was at 90 to 100% but no glitches. So on with the cooling.

Of course overclocking is too easy and bumped up from 3.7 to 4.4 Ghz with no problems and the ASIO load is down to 65%.

The cooling system is the one I used about 10 years ago, and results in flaming if you mention it on the cooling forums, which is with a large reservoir in the place of fans. Simply, you attach a water block with a pump in a closed system with a radiator. The radiator is placed in a plastic container, around 20 lt, to stop corrosion, which is placed in a metal bin that is 55 lt to radiate the heat.

The installation is a job that I would not recommend and took 2 days of messing around, but the result is silence from the pump in the water block once it is tuned. The plastic container at the end of the day is bath warm with the bin much cooler but still warm. It takes about 2 hours to return to room temperature. You can use a smaller, around 20 lt, plastic water container only, but the water will be warmer. This isn’t an issue as even if the water gets up around the 40 degree mark it will still cool your CPU nicely and the container loses heat.

Similar threads have been hijacked by users who run their computers 24/7 overclocked which could, but it's unlikely, be a problem.

I can go into details if anyone is interested.

Last edited by PaulZeN; 5th March 2016 at 02:26 AM.. Reason: Typo
Old 5th March 2016
  #2
Lives for gear
 

Or instead of one machine, you could run a daw farm under passive cooling with no power/heat/storage/cpu/ram limits .

Water-cooling has always been an interesting subject to me even though it doesn't really apply to my situations.
Old 5th March 2016
  #3
Lives for gear
 
gradivus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoodle View Post
Or instead of one machine, you could run a daw farm under passive cooling with no power/heat/storage/cpu/ram limits .

Water-cooling has always been an interesting subject to me even though it doesn't really apply to my situations.
Cooling could help for overclocking, but +1 on additional machines. I'm also heading for VEP (vienna ensemble pro) plus a new workstation.
Old 5th March 2016
  #4
Here for the gear
 

Cool Running

In another two years we will look back and laugh at external water cooling systems and DAW farms as the next gen i7s to be released this year will be fast enough for our needs. Although the new all in one closed loop water cooling systems may become standard.

Haven’t looked into DAW farms, but looks ridiculous when considering the power of current systems available today. I agree that water cooling in principle is madness, but once you have tried it you will be amazed.

Currently no noise from the computer, with all cores at 35 degrees C.
Old 5th March 2016
  #5
Lives for gear
 
gradivus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulZeN View Post
In another two years we will look back and laugh at external water cooling systems and DAW farms as the next gen i7s to be released this year will be fast enough for our needs. Although the new all in one closed loop water cooling systems may become standard.

Haven’t looked into DAW farms, but looks ridiculous when considering the power of current systems available today. I agree that water cooling in principle is madness, but once you have tried it you will be amazed.

Currently no noise from the computer, with all cores at 35 degrees C.
I don't think 2 years will solve this at all. Running heavy VIs at low hardware sample buffers will grind a workstation to its knees.

Farm is probably the wrong word. Most of us can probably get away with just 1 other computer slave to do the heavy lifting of VIs so our workstations have some room to breathe. Others may need more depending on workflow and how much they need to run.

I can see a use for internal cooling systems for those of us running muti-processor, multi-core systems with other internal hardware (like multiple video cards if we do graphics work). If someone is just using their DAW like a tape machine, they can do fine with even old hardware and/or some fast drives, and those with machine rooms don't care about fan noise.

I'm curious to see when we'll have access to cheap dsp hardware, and even dsp hardware that works for VIs— or better yet, silicon photonics processors and memristors. That should definitely change things, though software would have to be rewritten for the next-gen hardware.
Old 5th March 2016
  #6
Here for the gear
 

There must much higher use of VSTs and number of tracks around here than I have ever heard in a recording.

When composing you use low latency with a light load due to just using VST instruments, and then when mixing max out the buffers when adding VST effects with high latency as it no longer matters.

With a 50% performance increase from water cooling (100% down to 65%; 65 X 1.5 to get back to 100%), it is close to running another cheap machine as a slave, but with the convenience of access from one DAW on one computer.

I’ll bow out from this discussion and anyone can PM me if they want more info.
Old 6th March 2016
  #7
Gear Maniac
 

The 4770k was plagued with bad thermal paste between the cpu die and the metal base. That is why delidding became a thing again. Also what the 4790k fixed as well along with higher clocks.

Well Phanteks makes running two systems a breeze

Phanteks enthoo mini XL ds (2 computers in one case ITX and ATX)
Phanteks Innovative Computer Hardware Design

I have day dreamed of having a customer ask for this. Literally this could be as extreme as two overclocked 5960x or for the mortals two 4790k/6700k in one case.

Edit:
Im just surprised that DAW developers havent tapped into the power of the GPU for the work. Many other productivity programs are using the GPU but still seems under utilized
Old 6th March 2016
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by remiscs View Post
Im just surprised that DAW developers havent tapped into the power of the GPU for the work. Many other productivity programs are using the GPU but still seems under utilized
That's been actually discussed here and there quite a bit. Brief reasons are as follows.

GPUs are designed for tens of millions of parallel processing (RGB values for each pixel on the screen), but refresh rate is low, such as 60 Hz to 120Hz. That means, there are a lot of computations taking place in GPUs at the same time, but the requirement (frequency) to return the values to memory is quite low. In contrast, audio processing, which requires real time processing in most cases, need to take place at the rate of 'kilo' Hz. So, GPUs to work on audio processing effectively, there needs to be hardware redesign, such as separating several computation cores operate at higher frequency, upon request from OS or software.

If you look at CUDA developers list (available in NVidia's site), almost all of them are R&D firms related to parallel computing, such as real time 3D rendering, geographical or statistical computations, fluid dynamics, and bioinformatics. I don't see audio developers at all (same in 2013 IIRC).

There were some research presentations by OpenCL consortium a few years ago, but the link doesn't work anymore. Instead I found this just a few minutes ago writing this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gwEs2bwuVM

So, convolution reverb from several hundreds of mics' impulse response might benefit from parallel computing, but probably it'll be a domain of off line processing, unless GPU's memory access architecture is dramatically changed.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump