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Presonus Bans People For Speaking The Truth.... Audio Interfaces
Old 26th January 2016
  #1
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Thread Starter
Presonus Bans People For Speaking The Truth....

As a longterm member of the Presonus official board I have recently been banned for actively discussing the horrible RTL (round trip latency) of their new Studio 192 interface. Everything I have posted has been factual and backed up by real numbers including TAFKAT and daxmaestro's test results. There was no trolling or antagonizing members, just simple posts and very few, like 5, regarding the poor latency of the Studio 192. And most of those posts were ASKING for an official response from Presonus with some real numbers.
No arguments. No nothing like that. Just inquiries and facts.

Here is the message:

"You have been permanently banned from this board.
Please contact the Board Administrator for more information.
A ban has been issued on your username."

So I can see where Presonus is going with this. They refuse to admit that their Studio 192 product does not live up to their tricky marketing of USB 3 and "near zero latency" and they don't like the fact that others who are not sheep have pointed this out and demanded that they respond with some actual numbers.

This is really sad considering I have supported Presonus Studio One since V1 days and currently am recording with V3. But you know something? I'm reconsidering that decision because do I really want to be associated with and support a company that tries to censor the truth?

Again, no flamewars and I don't think I have 50 posts on that site and that's going back to when S1 V1 was released.

So now it's time to reconsider my options.... I think it's time to toss Presonus to the curb. Why? They obviously don't care about providing the consumer with the best possible product based upon feedback. They really don't. My older posts are still on the board and you can look for yourself, at least until Presonus deletes those as well. Name is Keys88... So what do you think fellow slutz?
Old 26th January 2016
  #2
Gear Addict
 
Bravin Neff's Avatar
 

What is (was) your username on the Presonus forum?
Old 26th January 2016
  #3
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravin Neff View Post
What is (was) your username on the Presonus forum?
keys88
Old 26th January 2016
  #4
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RRCHON's Avatar
The world sucks like that sometimes.

Stiff upper lip and move on, don't loose any sleep over it though the feeling of getting cheated sucks. I no longer buy anything made or affiliated with General Electric. As we get older we all run into something similar and though it will not have any real effect on the companies that did us dirty, I like to believe that we at least have our pride if nothing else.
Old 26th January 2016
  #5
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by RRCHON View Post
The world sucks like that sometimes.

Stiff upper lip and move on, don't loose any sleep over it though the feeling of getting cheated sucks. I no longer buy anything made or affiliated with General Electric. As we get older we all run into something similar and though it will not have any real effect on the companies that did us dirty, I like to believe that we at least have our pride if nothing else.
Thanks pal!!!
Funny you should mention G.E. as my newly built home (2001) was all G.E. appliances and every single one of them fell apart LONG before they should have.. Seems we have lots in common!!!

Thanks again!
Old 26th January 2016
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by loopy View Post
As a longterm member of the Presonus official board I have recently been banned for actively discussing the horrible RTL (round trip latency) of their new Studio 192 interface. Everything I have posted has been factual and backed up by real numbers including TAFKAT and daxmaestro's test results. There was no trolling or antagonizing members, just simple posts and very few, like 5, regarding the poor latency of the Studio 192. And most of those posts were ASKING for an official response from Presonus with some real numbers.
No arguments. No nothing like that. Just inquiries and facts.

Here is the message:

"You have been permanently banned from this board.
Please contact the Board Administrator for more information.
A ban has been issued on your username."

So I can see where Presonus is going with this. They refuse to admit that their Studio 192 product does not live up to their tricky marketing of USB 3 and "near zero latency" and they don't like the fact that others who are not sheep have pointed this out and demanded that they respond with some actual numbers.

This is really sad considering I have supported Presonus Studio One since V1 days and currently am recording with V3. But you know something? I'm reconsidering that decision because do I really want to be associated with and support a company that tries to censor the truth?

Again, no flamewars and I don't think I have 50 posts on that site and that's going back to when S1 V1 was released.

So now it's time to reconsider my options.... I think it's time to toss Presonus to the curb. Why? They obviously don't care about providing the consumer with the best possible product based upon feedback. They really don't. My older posts are still on the board and you can look for yourself, at least until Presonus deletes those as well. Name is Keys88... So what do you think fellow slutz?
Definitely don't sweat it. If it were me, I'd definitely not use any of their products! In fact after the battle with them saying my usb ports were the problem with the horrible latency performance with the Studio 192, I definitely no longer use Presonus studio, and I've gotten rid of the ADL600's I had in my studio. Presonus sucks period - well for me anyway. There's loads of people now complaining about the Studio 192, since from when I had it. The solution is not get a mac or the other nonsense people have been saying. Why should someone have to change their whole studio around to make something work, where people have been using their system for years with no problem? Just saying. Ok so it has burr brown converters.. Woohooo!! Yea, so does home theaters, Audient, Tascam, Zoom, RME.. So, show stopper? I think not. Now of course not everyone may use it for virtual instruments or plugins, but there are a lot of users out there that do! It's on their facebook page, on their website, and of course on gearslutz. And now they have the nerve to bring a mobile version of it to the table. If it's anything like the full blown 192, anyone working with vsti's or lots of plugins, need to blow past this sucker on the highway full throttle, and make a stop at the RME Babyface Pro exit! Someone on their page says he's going to get rid of his clarett for the 192 mobile! Good luck with that. I'm sure he'll probably make a u-turn or get something else if he does - if his workflow consists of vsti's.

Ok rant over, carry on.
Old 26th January 2016
  #7
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MusiKLover's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by daxmaestro View Post
Definitely don't sweat it. If it were me, I'd definitely not use any of their products! In fact after the battle with them saying my usb ports were the problem with the horrible latency performance with the Studio 192, I definitely no longer use Presonus studio, and I've gotten rid of the ADL600's I had in my studio. Presonus sucks period - well for me anyway. There's loads of people now complaining about the Studio 192, since from when I had it. The solution is not get a mac or the other nonsense people have been saying. Why should someone have to change their whole studio around to make something work, where people have been using their system for years with no problem? Just saying. Ok so it has burr brown converters.. Woohooo!! Yea, so does home theaters, Audient, Tascam, Zoom, RME.. So, show stopper? I think not. Now of course not everyone may use it for virtual instruments or plugins, but there are a lot of users out there that do! It's on their facebook page, on their website, and of course on gearslutz. And now they have the nerve to bring a mobile version of it to the table. If it's anything like the full blown 192, anyone working with vsti's or lots of plugins, need to blow past this sucker on the highway full throttle, and make a stop at the RME Babyface Pro exit! Someone on their page says he's going to get rid of his clarett for the 192 mobile! Good luck with that. I'm sure he'll probably make a u-turn or get something else if he does - if his workflow consists of vsti's.

Ok rant over, carry on.
They're based in Baton Rouge & thus might have some of the Napoleonic Code, ironically enough, in effect in their jurisdictional laws, but this is a US Federal Interstate issue. File a formal complaint outlining the scenario to The Bureau of Consumer Protection:

The FTC’s Bureau of Consumer Protection stops unfair, deceptive and fraudulent business practices by collecting complaints and conducting investigations, suing companies and people that break the law, developing rules to maintain a fair marketplace, and educating consumers and businesses about their rights and responsibilities.
Old 26th January 2016
  #8
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Bstapper's Avatar
 

I'm not surprised. There is very little traffic over there and the NAMM focus was a new product that is going to suffer from the same issues.

I don't agree with their methods but I understand their madness.
Old 26th January 2016
  #9
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bgood's Avatar
I blew up every usb presonus interface... Just garbage

I'm a s1 fanboy... But they did the same thought police thing with the s1 v3 update... Win 10 users pace protected stuff stopped working... They posted a work-around -- run the app in win 8 compatibility mode -- but quickly locked all the threads discussing the issue...

I'm all in w/ s1 but would never buy there hw again

Although, my three digimax fs's are still humming lol
Old 26th January 2016
  #10
Gear Nut
 

Sorry a little off topic but are you the LA Korean rapper Loopy? Just wondering..

Anyways sorry about your experience with Presonus hardware but if s1 works for you I don't see any reason for you to jump ships. Just don't use anymore of their hardware.

There are tons of people, even on here, that uses old versions of a daw just because it works for them and they don't feel the need to upgrade. I feel that, although I love new shxt, if it works for you than get over it. Atleast thats what I learned slutting around these pages.. Strange though cuz it is gearslutz and people around here can get pretty slutty
Old 26th January 2016
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

SO what are the RTL numbers on this interface? all I see is "Zero latency monitoring" and "near-zero-latency effects". These threads show up on google btw, and they can't censor gearslutz unless jules wants their advertising money in exchange for a small favor.
Old 26th January 2016
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdizzy View Post
SO what are the RTL numbers on this interface? all I see is "Zero latency monitoring" and "near-zero-latency effects". These threads show up on google btw, and they can't censor gearslutz unless jules wants their advertising money in exchange for a small favor.
I posted somewhere on one of the threads. I was getting 10+ms
Old 26th January 2016
  #13
Gear Maniac
 

Old 26th January 2016
  #14
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zfalcon1 View Post
Sorry a little off topic but are you the LA Korean rapper Loopy? Just wondering..

Anyways sorry about your experience with Presonus hardware but if s1 works for you I don't see any reason for you to jump ships. Just don't use anymore of their hardware.

There are tons of people, even on here, that uses old versions of a daw just because it works for them and they don't feel the need to upgrade. I feel that, although I love new shxt, if it works for you than get over it. Atleast thats what I learned slutting around these pages.. Strange though cuz it is gearslutz and people around here can get pretty slutty
Nahh, I'm not a rapper. Actually the nym loopy has nothing to do with recording loops etc. I got the nickname when I was a teen because I was kind of spacey and way out there.
Old 26th January 2016
  #15
And the sad truth is they've got a smaller version coming that folks are going to jump on fast. If it has the same issues then it will be sad considering how hard it is for home studio folks, the targeted audience, to put together that much dough for an interface. Huge Babyface fan and stopped using S1 awhile back for different reasons that were never solved through updates, etc..
Old 26th January 2016
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKeefe1032 View Post
And the sad truth is they've got a smaller version coming that folks are going to jump on fast. If it has the same issues then it will be sad considering how hard it is for home studio folks, the targeted audience, to put together that much dough for an interface. Huge Babyface fan and stopped using S1 awhile back for different reasons that were never solved through updates, etc..
Truth
Old 26th January 2016
  #17
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Joe Porto's Avatar
 

I gave up on Presonus back with the Firestation debacle. That was back in 2002. I tend to hold a grudge.
Old 26th January 2016
  #18
Sorry to hear that Loopy, but thanks for sharing. Will stay away from PreSonus.
Old 26th January 2016
  #19
Lives for gear
Studio One is such an amazing DAW. I hope they refocus on that and fine tune their hardware.
Old 26th January 2016
  #20
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Joe Porto's Avatar
 

Out of curiosity, what aspect of the Studio 192 is giving high latency? Is it round trip through the DAW, or using the internal monitor mixing and DSP. Reading their literature, the Zero Latency monitoring is when using either Studio One, or Z-mix and the DSP based "fat channel" plugin. I don't see any claims about DAW and native plugin latency.

To be fair, the UAD Apollo is the same way. Round trip DAW latency is high, even with Thunderbolt, but using the UAD mixer app and DSP plugins allows for near zero latency operation.
Old 26th January 2016
  #21
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timemist's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by loopy View Post
So now it's time to reconsider my options.... I think it's time to toss Presonus to the curb. Why? They obviously don't care about providing the consumer with the best possible product based upon feedback. They really don't. My older posts are still on the board and you can look for yourself, at least until Presonus deletes those as well. Name is Keys88... So what do you think fellow slutz?
I recommend trying to get in contact with upper management there and express your consternation at what happened. See how they respond. That should tell you whether or not Presonus is a company you wish to continue supporting, or moving on.

It could be an overzealous admin, so give management a chance to respond.
Old 26th January 2016
  #22
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I was at the Presonus booth at NAMM. They seem to really be pushing their control surfaces but not a Faderport in sight. I spoke with them and support for the Faderport (owner) is essentially over with.

I'm recently in the market for a new production DAW. My current (Samplitude) has plagued me for years on and off with ASIO errors on various computers, system configs, soundcards (DING DONG, IT'S THE SOFTWARE!).

I've been testing out S1, really dig it but... Like the Faderport I get the feeling from the company and the vibe at NAMM that S1 is an afterthought that at some point may go the way of the dinosaurs. I don't want to invest 1-5 years of my time to find out there's no more support for it.

I was recently on hold for hours on end just trying to get through to their tech support. It seems they're email only these days? From the lack of support I was surprised they had as big of a booth as they did at NAMM. I was actually under the impression they might be going out of business.

I'll pass...
Old 26th January 2016
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvin00 View Post
Presonus is pretty big in Live Audio circles. Their consoles are pretty nice.
Say you have an issue with one of their consoles? You need to wait a few days for tech support to email you back? No thank you.
Old 26th January 2016
  #24
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shanabit's Avatar
 

@loopy,

Steinbug bans people for the SAME thing bro. They all like to HIDE from any issue and use denial as a tactic. You are making me want to scrap this DAW now, ticks me off
Old 26th January 2016
  #25
Gear Maniac
 
Pindrive's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by timemist View Post
I recommend trying to get in contact with upper management there and express your consternation at what happened. See how they respond. That should tell you whether or not Presonus is a company you wish to continue supporting, or moving on.

It could be an overzealous admin, so give management a chance to respond.
1# I would agree, 100% Could just be a personal anomaly. Worth a shot!

2# I've worked for companies with this type of customer service & it's usually the effect of trickle down.
Old 26th January 2016
  #26
Gear Head
Got a Studio 192 couple of weeks back because of its tight integration with S1v3.

Everything works as it should over here (recording, z-monitoring, playing different VSTis)

Use it with a mac on 10.11.

What exactly are your problems @daxmaestro and @loopy?
Old 26th January 2016
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.dangamira View Post
Got a Studio 192 couple of weeks back because of its tight integration with S1v3.

Everything works as it should over here (recording, z-monitoring, playing different VSTis)

Use it with a mac on 10.11.

What exactly are your problems @daxmaestro and @loopy?
I don't want to turn this thread into the other thread that turned into a bunch of twists and turns, you can read more of it if you can stomach it. But with me, I do gospel, jazz, funk, rnb, soul productions. I used to do a lot of the one man band thing years ago, so my biggest money that come in is from making instrumentals for clients. I use SampleTank 3, Kontakt 5 (Vintage Organs, Scarbee Bass, Session Horns, Studio Drums, Battery, etc), Steven Slate Drums, and others. I'm old skool, so when I do these type of productions, I play from the beginning of the track to the end. Yep, so if the track is 5 minutes long, I'm playing the bass line from beginning to end, piano same thing, drums, so forth, and so on. No loops for the most part - unless it's something really light that's just repetitive - aka hip hop, electronic music, etc.. So it's really annoying and workflow compromising to try to record, and you're getting crackles in the playback, so you crank the buffer size right, which starts to introduce lag / aka latency. The lowest I got on the Studio 192 if I can remember correctly, was 10ms roundtrip. And I think that was at 64 buffer size. So when I cranked it, forget it. A slew of other interfaces that I've had over the past months, destroyed the 192 in that aspect. In fact, the 192 was at the bottom of the pile.
Old 26th January 2016
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvin00 View Post
I'm a Studio One 3 user and my experience with SO3 and Presonus Live Sound equipment has been pretty satisfactory. Not defending them - they may suck like you say, I don't know...maybe because I never needed tech support.
Try calling their tech support number right now. Srs, put the phone down with the speaker on and see how long you'll be on the line before their phone-queue hangs up on you. Then call back, opt out of the phone-queue and leave your name and number and see if you ever get a call back from them. I did not btw.

Then send an email to tech support and time it to see how long it takes before tech support gets back in touch with you.

Then imagine you are at some event where you're trying to impress your clients with your professional skill-set they hired you for and something breaks down with your Presonus manufactured equipment and you need assistance ASAP. That's the imagery that plays in the back of my head when I think about gear investment.

Old 26th January 2016
  #29
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timemist's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pindrive View Post
1# I would agree, 100% Could just be a personal anomaly. Worth a shot!

2# I've worked for companies with this type of customer service & it's usually the effect of trickle down.
True. It is either something that starts from the top, or if the company cares, can be fixed from the top. If it is the latter, they have a chance to fix it. If it is the former, that will become clear soon enough.
Old 26th January 2016
  #30
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Billy Buck's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Porto View Post
To be fair, the UAD Apollo is the same way. Round trip DAW latency is high, even with Thunderbolt, but using the UAD mixer app and DSP plugins allows for near zero latency operation.
What do you consider high? Using REAPER v5.11 x64 with my Apollo's IDC off I am getting decent RTL's:

Universal Audio Apollo
I/O Buffer Size 64 (44.1Khz)
Resulting Latency 5.8 ms Roundtrip (2.1ms Output)

I/O Buffer Size 32 (44.1Khz)
Resulting Latency 4.0 ms Roundtrip (1.2ms Output)

To me, anything over 10ms RT is high and probably something I would have an issue with.

Cheers,

Billy Buck
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