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Old 20th January 2007
  #31
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Matthew Murray's Avatar
I've called all the stores in Calgary. People have cubase 3 running but not 4. Nobody even sells the competitive upgrade, which is the package I'd want. I'd have to order direct from Steinberg....

Ahh, ro*******s!

Besides those two gripes do you dig Cubase? Is it in the same league as logic? A pro workflow that can still make me giggle and get my art recorded?
Old 20th January 2007
  #32
Gear Addict
 
Psyko/Acoustics's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Murray View Post
I've called all the stores in Calgary. People have cubase 3 running but not 4. Nobody even sells the competitive upgrade, which is the package I'd want. I'd have to order direct from Steinberg....

Ahh, ro*******s!

Besides those two gripes do you dig Cubase? Is it in the same league as logic? A pro workflow that can still make me giggle and get my art recorded?
Well, I can tell you that it has lots of awesome editing options. You can set up workspace screens similar to in Logic.

The new "control room" option means you can do special routing for headphone mixes within the program.

It sounds the same as Nuendo.

The major difference between Logic and Cubase seems to be that people prefer Logic for programming. I think you may not like the fact that it still can't use 192kHz files... at least I think that's still true.

If you need to hear the results of working in Cubendo:

-Nick Blagona (producer and engineer... most recently worked on Alexisonfire) gets it done using Nuendo...

-"Gadget" (K-os, Devine Brown) from Chris Smith management uses Nuendo.

-Peter J. Moore (used to work with the Cowboy Junkies and Holly Cole... no idea who he's working with now) uses Nuendo. http://peterjmoore.com/

Etc.

You can be very happy with Cubase. If the outboard gear issue is a killer then check it out. C4 is still in its early stages, tho. Watch out for the bugs. They're supposed to fix the sidechain and mixer routing thing soon, hopefully with the next update!
Old 20th January 2007
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Blackwood View Post
Sorry to be pedantic, but it's not your analog gear that's causing the delay, it's the converters - regardless of how fast they are, they still have some latency...
True enough -- and this had been an issue with more or less all the DAW softwares along the way.

I'm not sure if Steinberg's ping-loopback hardware comp utility beat out a similar calibration utility in Mackie's Tracktion -- but it's high time ALL the DAW software publishers included some way of compensating for what some call "overdub misalignment" issues. (My own DAW, Sonar, has apparently added something in this year's update, but I haven't upgraded yet, so I can't weigh in on that implementation or even confirm its existence.)


In previous years, it seemed to be the DAW publishers' position that the hardware driver should supply accurate information -- but in anecdotal test result after test result from "ping loopback" tests I encouraged people to make, virtually NO ONE's DAW lined up overdubs to existing tracks with sample accuracy -- at least not without an alignment comp utility like Tracktion's or Cubase's.
Old 20th January 2007
  #34
Gear Addict
 
Psyko/Acoustics's Avatar
 

The cutest thing about the Steinberg method is that you can take a pic of the gear you're sending signal to and apply it to the "plugin" device you build in the software. heh

Actually you can make any image you want...then stick working knobs on it. This goes for outboard midi-controllable devices too.
Old 21st January 2007
  #35
Lives for gear
 

Matt,

Samp runs as designed on Macs with Bootcamp. The group ha done extensive testing and some even report better performance w/ Mac and bootcamp.

Give it a try before you buy anything else. Wht not? I believe the demo is easily obtained.
Old 21st January 2007
  #36
Gear Nut
 

Time to move along folks. Logic is the past. GarageBand Lite for the iPhone is the future.
Old 21st January 2007
  #37
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Matthew Murray's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by redddog View Post
Matt,

Samp runs as designed on Macs with Bootcamp. The group ha done extensive testing and some even report better performance w/ Mac and bootcamp.

Give it a try before you buy anything else. Wht not? I believe the demo is easily obtained.
Red Dog--

Samplitude will run under windows in bootcamp, but my symphony rig only works under Mac environments, so the two won't jive.

Samplitude looks hot too, i'm really interested.

But I've found a bandaid solution that allows me to use my outboard using that backwards-ass latency fixer plug ... I'm hoping it will buy me some time to at least see what Logic 8 brings. But it better get at least announced soon.

My rage has died down, whadd'ya know.
Old 21st January 2007
  #38
Gear Addict
 
Hammer v2's Avatar
Hey Matt,
Changing hosts is a real PITA!!! The Top 4 DAWS (C4, SNR LGIC and of course, Tools) are all brilliant. There's no question about it. We should count ourselves very lucky that we have such a fine selection of tools to choose from. But Changing Hosts is difficult. Things won't be where you think they're supposed to be. Things will be named differently and often, a new methodology is required. You've got a symphony rig which suggests to me that you're pretty serious about your work.

You've already invested a lot of time in logic....you survived without the delay comp untill now....couldn't you just hold on till V8 is out?

I had to switch from SONAR to tools for work years ago. I picked up the basics really quickly....but it took 3 months to achieve fluency on it. There's a lot to be said for having an idea, and hearing it instantly.

Good luck!
Old 21st January 2007
  #39
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statikcat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Murray View Post
And that's another frustrating bit. There's no demo for Cubase 4. There's no demo for Digital performer.

There's a demo for ableton Live 6 but I've already ruled it out (it's pretty bad!)

Anyone have Cubase 4 running in calgary and want to show me around?
I have been running Cubase 4.01 a lot since shortly after release on my Macbook Pro and it has not crashed once. The new plugins are very nice and improved with low cpu, the mediabay is amazing.. I am running a crap ton of third party plugins. .mov video support works A+. Tons of cpu headroom! Be aware if you use BFD it is not working until BFD updates their plugin.. unless they just did recently. Both Logic and Cubase have their drawbacks.. while the routing in Cubase can be a little cumbersome in some advanced situations the routing it does have is cake while Logic is a little rough.. especially in the mixer imo. Plus I hate that logic has no graphical or auto timestretching.. that alone is something I can't work without. VST3 supports side chaining so I would expect to see that added in an update soon. The devs are working on XP, Vista, PPC Mac and Intel Mac.. and probably Leopard too!.. Plus finishing Nuendo 4 and Groove Agent 3. Busy times! With all the OS changes companies doing cross platform apps really have a heavy load right now.

Check out the videos at www.steinbergusers.com they may help you get a feel.. at least since there is not a demo for the time being.
Old 21st January 2007
  #40
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Matthew Murray's Avatar
Thanks you guys, some really helpful advice here :-)
Old 21st January 2007
  #41
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illynoise's Avatar
 

I've had Logic for about 10-11 years and it's a much better and stable program than it was when it first came out.

Cubase is also. To me recording in Logic 7 is much easier than recording in Cubase (SX3 for me) I don't trust Cubase on a mac, it runs much better on a PC for many different reasons I guess.

They will release Logic 8, I'm sure of it, but its not going to happen until Leopard comes out and the 8 core machines next week.

They are on 10.3.9 right? What's next 10.3.9-1? Probably not, let the countdown begin.

Cubase and Logic are like Gala and Fuji apples. They look almost the same but taste different.

Good luck.
Old 21st January 2007
  #42
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Adebar's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by illynoise View Post
They will release Logic 8, I'm sure of it, but its not going to happen until Leopard comes out and the 8 core machines next week.

They are on 10.3.9 right? What's next 10.3.9-1? Probably not, let the countdown begin.
8 core machines next week? Are you serious?
I did not find any rumor about that.
Old 22nd January 2007
  #43
Gear Addict
 
Psyko/Acoustics's Avatar
 

Good to hear the new C4 is working well in Macworld.

I have another gripe I've just been struggling with, I can't get SX3 to see Colortone Pro in my new computer despite solid help from Tritone. In fact, no "pluggo" stuff is working in Cubase... but it's working in Reaper!!!

(cue the chorus of Reaper lovers)


Lame. I wish Steinberg would release their friggin' SDK for VST3 stuff. What's it been, 5 months now? dfegad

Hang in there, Mr.Murray!

Peas.
Old 22nd January 2007
  #44
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max cooper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Murray View Post
Thanks you guys, some really helpful advice here :-)
Hope you keep us posted of where you go with this. Good luck with it all.
Old 22nd January 2007
  #45
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statikcat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by illynoise View Post

They will release Logic 8, I'm sure of it, but its not going to happen until Leopard comes out and the 8 core machines next week.

Good luck.
Come on you cant make a statement like that on here without some sources.. what makes you think they will be out next week?
Old 22nd January 2007
  #46
Gear Maniac
 
CuzCutz's Avatar
 

I've briefly read about some of the new features in products like the new Sonar & Cubase 4 etc. and in many ways they're just catching up to or emulating Logic. With no major upgrade in the past 2 years, Logic (to me) has held up, I'm still producing music with it and yes, i also have a 'wish list', and was dissapointed when we got no Logic 8 at NAMM this weekend but I'll continue to use it and like it. i know they've had alot of time for they're 'transition' to intel, but i'm also thinking that a transition like that takes alot of time. I'm pretty sure i'll be pleased with Logic 8... Now! Hurry the F up and give it to us heh
Old 22nd January 2007
  #47
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Matthew Murray's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by max cooper View Post
Hope you keep us posted of where you go with this. Good luck with it all.
I certainly will. Dr. Delta here on GS was kind enough to walk me through how to get the latency fixer working in Logic with my outboard returns...

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/104950-delay-compensation-logic-pro-7-outboard-how-do-you-do.html

That will buy me a few more months. But I'm giving Apple until MusikMesse to announce version 8, and version 8 better give us something that isn't a "workaround" in this regard.

I love Logic, don't get me wrong. And yes, reading about the troubles some of you have been having with Cubase, encourages me to hang tight for Logic.

I'll let you all know if I make any rash decisions to go along with my rash post
Old 22nd January 2007
  #48
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The Beatsmith's Avatar
 

I used to get DAC/ADC delay when using a motu 828mk2 in logic pro 7, a few samples, but with the rme fireface 800 it seems to be gone, and lines up perfectly???

i assumed the RME somehow tells logic to compensate

i don't mix with outboard though...
Old 22nd January 2007
  #49
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illynoise's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by statikcat View Post
Come on you cant make a statement like that on here without some sources.. what makes you think they will be out next week?

Ok, your right, I'm guessing, but I really want to buy a dual dual right this minute, I mean today, and the last 4 times I've bought a mac within 2 days, they came out with the next generation.

I read that Intel has already given apple these chips, and I think that it's going to be before Feb 1. But that's just a guess!!!!

Thanks for letting me clarify that. for ref::

http://anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2832&p=6
Old 22nd January 2007
  #50
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theblotted's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by illynoise View Post
Ok, your right, I'm guessing, but I really want to buy a dual dual right this minute, I mean today, and the last 4 times I've bought a mac within 2 days, they came out with the next generation.

I read that Intel has already given apple these chips, and I think that it's going to be before Feb 1. But that's just a guess!!!!

Thanks for letting me clarify that. for ref::

http://anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2832&p=6

illynoise, in order to avoid new generation coming out after 2 days, i'd suggest you check this site before any purchase:

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/
Old 22nd January 2007
  #51
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theblotted's Avatar
 

Matthew,

word has it that Logic 8's gonna be huge. at least to the ones that's got the first-hand info. quoted, "you're gonna be very happy".

so 2 options here. either you stick with Logic 7 (with the new-found Latency Fixer useage), or just go to Cubase 4.

and then when Apple drops Logic 8, hope it's just as the hype says, and hop on board. simple as that.

=======================

btw, i hardly use Latency Fixer to print anymore (despite of me starting that other thread). not cuz i'm using Cubase 4 (still got Logic 7, thank God); but it'll only help when listening to outboard matching with everything else in Logic. then after outboard settings confirmed, to print and having it line up with rest of track: you gotta bypass Latency Fixer and I/O plugin, then print @ PDC on "Audio & Audio Inst only."

gotta bypass Latency Fixer, cuz it won't let you come back to Logic exactly sample accurate anyway. it's close but no cigar...
Old 22nd January 2007
  #52
Lives for gear
 
Matthew Murray's Avatar
Are you sure? I went and measured my latency to the sample several times with different tones and it seemed exact down to the sample -- with my symphony rig running at 128 buffers, sending it out and then back in through the 16x's ... I'm at 176 samples. I set that plug to 176 samples, and I've got it on the RETURN channel (the channel I'm printing to). I can listen and it sounds lined up, and then I can also print, and it's completely in phase. I know it's in phase because if I shift it a few samples back on latency fixer I get phasing, and the same with shifting forward.

So I don't know, I think it's a decent bandaid fix for now -- not ideal, but it's bought me a few months. I plan to buy a clovertown mac as soon as they're released too ... so ditching logic would be a shame since I imagine logic 8 will be the first app to take advantage of all 8 cores...

M

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblotted View Post
Matthew,

word has it that Logic 8's gonna be huge. at least to the ones that's got the first-hand info. quoted, "you're gonna be very happy".

so 2 options here. either you stick with Logic 7 (with the new-found Latency Fixer useage), or just go to Cubase 4.

and then when Apple drops Logic 8, hope it's just as the hype says, and hop on board. simple as that.

=======================

btw, i hardly use Latency Fixer to print anymore (despite of me starting that other thread). not cuz i'm using Cubase 4 (still got Logic 7, thank God); but it'll only help when listening to outboard matching with everything else in Logic. then after outboard settings confirmed, to print and having it line up with rest of track: you gotta bypass Latency Fixer and I/O plugin, then print @ PDC on "Audio & Audio Inst only."

gotta bypass Latency Fixer, cuz it won't let you come back to Logic exactly sample accurate anyway. it's close but no cigar...
Old 22nd January 2007
  #53
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Roger Starr's Avatar
 

In another thread on LP and iPhone stuff there was a link to the multi-touch stuff: http://cs.nyu.edu/~jhan/ftirtouch/. Actually, this IS the FUTURE what I think! Just image:

' Apple new powerfull machines, with not only LP8, but with a total new way of hardware controling, namely different sizes of multi-touch screens available where you will have one screen to look at waves or whatever and one to literally control with your own hands the whole mixing console, faders, plugs everything! I see high tech top studios having the latest technology on Macs with multi-touch screens doing high end music productions as well post production using one great integrated Apple system and your multi-touch Apple screen as your hardware controller....'

Regards,

Roger
Old 22nd January 2007
  #54
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Starr View Post
In another thread on LP and iPhone stuff there was a link to the multi-touch stuff: http://cs.nyu.edu/~jhan/ftirtouch/. Actually, this IS the FUTURE what I think! Just image:

' Apple new powerfull machines, with not only LP8, but with a total new way of hardware controling, namely different sizes of multi-touch screens available where you will have one screen to look at waves or whatever and one to literally control with your own hands the whole mixing console, faders, plugs everything! I see high tech top studios having the latest technology on Macs with multi-touch screens doing high end music productions as well post production using one great integrated Apple system and your multi-touch Apple screen as your hardware controller....'

Regards,

Roger
There have already been consoles with touchscreens.

they suck.
Old 23rd January 2007
  #55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Murray View Post
If they don't tell the user base NOW, they lose me, and most likely others.

I understand that being tightlipped about a new iMac or iPhone can have it's advantages, but apple can't use the same strategy when dealing with a user base like that of Logic's. We don't put up with preschool BS like that. We need to know what's what, because these features really make a difference in what we can accomplish for OUR clients.
Well... after my Imeeting with Apple 'Istaff' (I did show them this post during our meeting, on an Imac) I learned that he who talks about up coming Apple features has no job the next day..

So thats why you haven't gotten (and wont get a responce) to this thread.

But I got the feeing that that they cared and are dedicated to the platform its future and it's userbase..

Old 23rd January 2007
  #56
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post
Well... after my Imeeting with Apple 'Istaff' (I did show them this post during our meeting, on an Imac) I learned that he who talks about up coming Apple features has no job the next day..

So thats why you haven't gotten (and wont get a responce) to this thread.

But I got the feeing that that they cared and are dedicated to the platform its future and it's userbase..

Did you ask themn why their QC is in the toilet? heh
Old 23rd January 2007
  #57
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Murray View Post
Instead of making this another standard "for" or "against" thread, why don't all you cats who jumped ship tell me which DAW you switched to on a mac, and why.

Looks like cubase is the best option for auto delay compensation. Thoughts?

But let's ditch the lame for or against. This issue matters to some of us, so I don't want to turn this into another pointless argument. If Apple writes me, that might change something. Like henchman says, fat chance. So I'm switching.
i jumped ship recently to dp. i chose dp primarily because it handles audio in a pro tools type way and it has very good midi. it also supports au format which i use with logic. some folks around here warned me it would be just as buggy as logic was for me, but it has been very stable. i'm running it with battery, rmx, atmosphere, at, waves, kontakt, urs and some others that i am forgetting. been good. the major complaint i have is that the gui needs more customability, major problem is you can't vertically resize the tracks/arrange window or any of the tiny 8 point text.

you can always switch back to logic if they do come out with something great.
Old 23rd January 2007
  #58
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Murray View Post
I certainly will. Dr. Delta here on GS was kind enough to walk me through how to get the latency fixer working in Logic with my outboard returns...

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/104950-delay-compensation-logic-pro-7-outboard-how-do-you-do.html

That will buy me a few more months. But I'm giving Apple until MusikMesse to announce version 8, and version 8 better give us something that isn't a "workaround" in this regard.

I love Logic, don't get me wrong. And yes, reading about the troubles some of you have been having with Cubase, encourages me to hang tight for Logic.

I'll let you all know if I make any rash decisions to go along with my rash post
breaking up is hard to do. just give her one more chance, she'll change her ways.
Old 23rd January 2007
  #59
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illynoise's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblotted View Post
illynoise, in order to avoid new generation coming out after 2 days, i'd suggest you check this site before any purchase:

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/

thanks for the info, looks like I may be right though after reading this.
Old 23rd January 2007
  #60
Gear Head
 

Logic Pro is very important to Apple. Apple is all about image. Unlike most hardware companies, Apple's biggest asset is it's image. Dell/MS/Toshiba/Samsung etc... sell based on features and value for money etc.. Apple sells product because it taps into the psyche of the free spirited, hip, alternative thinker. Which in the real world means someone who wants to be, works in or is aligned with a creative field.
Apple has virtually no market share outside of this category of people.

Logic Pro feeds that image. It also feeds the concept that Apple has a total solution for the creative industry. It's not just about money, (even though Apple make a great margin of Logic and in itself it's very profitable). It's about feeding that creative image because without it, Apple is finished. They bought Logic to safeguard that image. In the same way they bought FCP or Shake etc.. Infact, something like Logic is ultimately more important to them than MS OFFICE is. Office doesnt make people spend £1700 pounds on a silver box that does more or less the same thing as another generic £800 pound box. But Logic Pro will ...

Perception is everything ....
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