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Is Waves Update Plans getting out of hand?
Old 2nd February 2016
  #151
Gear Maniac
 
Andy Gone's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassist30 View Post
So what you are saying same computer and Daw you will not have to update.? Not what I heard.
Exactly. There are some myths about WUP out there

If you don't change your system and DAW, you do not have to WUP, and it will work forever.

If you put your licenses to a USB key (instead your machine), you even can change the machine, and still Waves will work (if you use operating system and DAW that are supported with this Waves version).

For example, current version of Waves supports Windows 7, 8 and 10. You can change your machine and change Win7 to Win10, and still Waves will work without WUP, because you are still using it on a supported system.
Old 2nd February 2016
  #152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Gone View Post
Exactly. There are some myths about WUP out there

If you don't change your system and DAW, you do not have to WUP, and it will work forever.

If you put your licenses to a USB key (instead your machine), you even can change the machine, and still Waves will work (if you use operating system and DAW that are supported with this Waves version).

For example, current version of Waves supports Windows 7, 8 and 10. You can change your machine and change Win7 to Win10, and still Waves will work without WUP, because you are still using it on a supported system.
You don't even need to use a USB. Just upload "back" the license from the machine into your Waves cloud, then "activate" the new/other machine.

The only drag I see with Waves is, that you don't get two activations with one license. So I had to buy all my Waves twice, because I have two music computers (although both used only by me).
Old 2nd February 2016
  #153
Gear Maniac
 
Andy Gone's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by stardustmedia View Post
You don't even need to use a USB. Just upload "back" the license from the machine into your Waves cloud, then "activate" the new/other machine.
That's true as far as license management software is the same. Recently Waves changed WLC to WC, and WLC is obsolete now. So if license management software becomes obsolete, you would probably not be able to operate the cloud. With a USB stick, you don't have to. Of course, there is a drawback that you have another dongle

Quote:
Originally Posted by stardustmedia View Post
The only drag I see with Waves is, that you don't get two activations with one license. So I had to buy all my Waves twice, because I have two music computers (although both used only by me).
That's true, some other devs do offer multiple activations. But again you could use a USB stick to move your licenses quickly between machines. Alternatively, if you hate dongles, you can always put licenses to cloud from one machine and then get them from cloud to another machine.
Old 2nd February 2016
  #154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Gone View Post
That's true, some other devs do offer multiple activations. But again you could use a USB stick to move your licenses quickly between machines. Alternatively, if you hate dongles, you can always put licenses to cloud from one machine and then get them from cloud to another machine.
I don't mind dongles. It's about me. I know I will forget them everywhere
Old 3rd February 2016
  #155
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Gone View Post
I will probably do the same with my Digital, as far as it has really got nicely upgraded in V3. Though if it was Waves, the WUP for a $300 plugin would be $30-35, not $49. And especially I am not happy with Plugin Alliance that they made upgrade path from Transient Designer (a $200 plugin) to the Plus version for $49. It is a bit too much imo. Also, it is simply not true that you will be unable to use Waves after a year, regardless your WUP status. Still I need to demo the Transient Plus to see if it is worth paying another fifty bucks.
Yeah I just paid it!! Works out more like $70 AUD, so it was a little extra painful.

I probably would have only paid $20/30 if it were a WUP thing.

Although, I try not to complain about it much because they could have charged full price for it. They keep sending me out vouchers and giving me opportunities to save as well, so I can't be too angry about it.

Still, would have been nicer if it were cheaper.
Old 3rd February 2016
  #156
Just saying: Never WUP'ed until now, since like 4-5 years. Yesterday updated all my 20 Waves plugins to 9.6.x

Don't overdo the thinking about WUP. It's a good price. If you still cannot afford it, I can understand that, just don't buy Waves. Only get freeware. Please just stop expecting everything for eternity for free. Not gonna happen
Old 3rd February 2016
  #157
Quote:
Originally Posted by stardustmedia View Post
Please just stop expecting everything for eternity for free. Not gonna happen
Old 4th February 2016
  #158
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Gone View Post
Exactly. There are some myths about WUP out there

If you don't change your system and DAW, you do not have to WUP, and it will work forever.

If you put your licenses to a USB key (instead your machine), you even can change the machine, and still Waves will work (if you use operating system and DAW that are supported with this Waves version).

For example, current version of Waves supports Windows 7, 8 and 10. You can change your machine and change Win7 to Win10, and still Waves will work without WUP, because you are still using it on a supported system.
What about you change the same daw to the next version?
Old 4th February 2016
  #159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassist30 View Post
What about you change the same daw to the next version?
I started almost 4 years ago with my first Waves plugins on v9.x (I think it was short after v9 release in March 2012). I bought some more plugins until now.

Meanwhile I updated Logic from v8 to v10.0, v10.1 then to v10.2. I haven't yet WUPed. Even updated a couple of days ago Waves from 9.3 to 9.6.

I think as long as you stay with the same OS, you're pretty safe. I was first on OS 10.6.8, updated then to Mavericks and stayed on Mavericks. Maybe the update to Yosemite, when it came out, would have been possible without WUP for me. I think if I had updated to El Capitan (last year), I would have needed WUP.
Old 4th February 2016
  #160
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Andy Gone's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassist30 View Post
What about you change the same daw to the next version?
In this case the old version of plugins might be not compatible with the new version of DAW, but not necessarily. You see what @ stardustmedia said above. It is quite possible they will still work with the new DAW (even if they are not officially compatible). From my experience, Waves v9 successfully runs with Cubase 5 while the specs say you need Cubase 7.5 minimum. I believe it is a good idea to demo the new version of DAW first and check if it supports your plugins on your system.

If they will not be compatible, you will have to get WUP in order to upgrade Waves plugins. Before you tell 'I knew I would have to pay WUP sooner or later', mind that you also will have to pay for the DAW upgrade. This is not uncommon to pay for software upgrades. Or, you might decide not to upgrade anything.

Sometimes the new DAW version just drops the plugin format support, like new ProTools does not support RTAS (since v11 I think), in this case there is no 'if': you will need to upgrade plugins if you want the new DAW. In case of Waves, you will need WUP. In case of Plugin Alliance, you will have a discounted price to get the new version of every plugin in question. It seems that every developer has his specific upgrade policy
Old 4th February 2016
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Gone View Post
In this case the old version of plugins might be not compatible with the new version of DAW, but not necessarily. You see what @ stardustmedia said above. It is quite possible they will still work with the new DAW (even if they are not officially compatible). From my experience, Waves v9 successfully runs with Cubase 5 while the specs say you need Cubase 7.5 minimum. I believe it is a good idea to demo the new version of DAW first and check if it supports your plugins on your system.

If they will not be compatible, you will have to get WUP in order to upgrade Waves plugins. Before you tell 'I knew I would have to pay WUP sooner or later', mind that you also will have to pay for the DAW upgrade. This is not uncommon to pay for software upgrades. Or, you might decide not to upgrade anything.

Sometimes the new DAW version just drops the plugin format support, like new ProTools does not support RTAS (since v11 I think), in this case there is no 'if': you will need to upgrade plugins if you want the new DAW. In case of Waves, you will need WUP. In case of Plugin Alliance, you will have a discounted price to get the new version of every plugin in question. It seems that every developer has his specific upgrade policy
New versions of daws usually happens every year. Its still getting to my point you will have to pay wup..... sometime, in most cases sooner than later. As far as Plugin Alliance, yes you pay when they update, a fee. But it like I said before that's different from waves, the alliance plugin is better than its previous version. Waves you get the same version.
Old 4th February 2016
  #162
Gear Maniac
 
Andy Gone's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassist30 View Post
New versions of daws usually happens every year. Its still getting to my point you will have to pay wup..... sometime, in most cases sooner than later. As far as Plugin Alliance, yes you pay when they update, a fee. But it like I said before that's different from waves, the alliance plugin is better than its previous version. Waves you get the same version.
FWIW, the Plugin Alliance have different strategy. They are revamping their plugins significantly, so the new version becomes (almost) a new plugin with the same function, and they can comfortably sell the upgrade to new version with a relatively high price tag to their loyal customers. Waves are more developing new plugins than revamping old ones. But I am not talking about that kind of thing. I am talking about technical upgrade, when older version, for example, does not support AXX and the newer one does.

It's more a question of personal preference to me. As the examples of @ stardustmedia and myself show, you don't really need to upgrade Waves with every new release of your DAW. I am using the same Waves v9 for years on different versions of Cubase with no problem (and no WUP). Some people just feel irrationally uneasy with WUP concept Well, this of course can influence your choice. But I believe you really invest to an upgrade/WUP about once in 5 years or so, or maybe you decide not to upgrade. I will probably be fine with by current version of Cubase during next 5 years.
Old 4th February 2016
  #163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Gone View Post
FWIW, the Plugin Alliance have different strategy. They are revamping their plugins significantly, so the new version becomes (almost) a new plugin with the same function, and they can comfortably sell the upgrade to new version with a relatively high price tag to their loyal customers. Waves are more developing new plugins than revamping old ones. But I am not talking about that kind of thing. I am talking about technical upgrade, when older version, for example, does not support AXX and the newer one does.
I distinguish between updates and upgrades. Upgrades include major changes and new features (not minor things like color changes etc. ) and updates are for bug fixing (incl. compatibility issues). I expect bugs fixed for free. Major changes have to be paid IMHO, because they cost more time and money.

I understand that a new plugin format and/or major OS-changes my lead to an paid upgrade without any new (obvious) features, instead of a free update.

I see WUP as a transparent pretty cheap upgrade plan, not as an update. Updates within the version are free anyway. I also "feared" WUP and thought it's a rip off. After 4 years I can say it's NOT.

Yes, there are companies, that give free updates and even upgrades. U-He and TAL come to my mind. I promise that even these companies won't support every upcoming OS and DAW for free forever.
Old 4th February 2016
  #164
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassist30 View Post
New versions of daws usually happens every year. Its still getting to my point you will have to pay wup..... sometime, in most cases sooner than later.
I really don't get this. I can still run VST 1.0 plugins (20 years old) in the very latest version of Cubase Pro 64 bit on Windows. You only need to update/upgrade if you really want to (or are an Apple or Avid victim ).

Alistair
Old 4th February 2016
  #165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassist30 View Post
New versions of daws usually happens every year. Its still getting to my point you will have to pay wup..... sometime, in most cases sooner than later.
Even though people keep telling you that is not the case?

Add one more. Win7 Cubase 6 through 8.5, Protools 10, Waves version 9. I've yet to WUP, and don't expect to do so anytime soon.
Old 5th February 2016
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassist30 View Post
New versions of daws usually happens every year. Its still getting to my point you will have to pay wup..... sometime, in most cases sooner than later.
You don't give up , do you?

But you are so mistaken.
Old 5th February 2016
  #167
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OK. Right now they still work. I do refuse to pay wup. So like many of you said, you don't have to pay wup, I'm going to rest it.
Old 5th February 2016
  #168
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LFO8's Avatar
 

Like I said, the issue I have with WUP is having to pay it whenever you want to sell the plugins that are not covered by WUP anymore. I know some will say 'see it as a transfer fee'. However a transfer fee is a fixed sum per licence (any license of any plugin). Not $60,- for NLS, $10,- for Ren Bass, $45,- for Z-Noise etc etc.

I have no issues paying for upgrades for the plugins that I wish to keep in use.
Old 5th February 2016
  #169
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Andy Gone's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFO8 View Post
Like I said, the issue I have with WUP is having to pay it whenever you want to sell the plugins that are not covered by WUP anymore. I know some will say 'see it as a transfer fee'. However a transfer fee is a fixed sum per licence (any license of any plugin). Not $60,- for NLS, $10,- for Ren Bass, $45,- for Z-Noise etc etc.

I have no issues paying for upgrades for the plugins that I wish to keep in use.
That's true. Almost all developers put this or that fees and/or obstacles for resale. Melda asks for 20% of the plugin price, to give you an example.
Old 5th February 2016
  #170
I miss that times where everything in the internet was for free, forever, and only warez... miss that times hard

Stop debating about prices. You think WUP is , then don't buy Waves. Imagine our customers debating here about our prices!!?
Old 6th February 2016
  #171
Lives for gear
 

Yeah. I guess it's kind of a thing where you either live with or without it. Certainly there is a large number of users that are okay with it, I imagine a smaller minority living with it and the odd few just bailing.

Really it's a frying pan/fire kind of deal. Or, if you will, the grass is always greener on the other side.... Okay I'll stop now. Hahaha.

There's always going to be pros and cons with any company and any investment. It's all a matter of deciding what are the cons you are willing to live with.

Waves is fine for me. WUP isn't idea, but it certainly has its benefits. As long as it's not a bloody subscription service I'm in.
Old 17th February 2016
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stardustmedia View Post
I miss that times where everything in the internet was for free, forever, and only warez... miss that times hard

Stop debating about prices. You think WUP is , then don't buy Waves. Imagine our customers debating here about our prices!!?

Not debating about waves prices. just debating the rental fee's.
Old 17th February 2016
  #173
Deleted User
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I did say I wasn't going to pay the wup, but I will miss the eq in the waves SSL4000 series.
Old 17th February 2016
  #174
Deleted 19064ac
Guest
I've been trying to sell my Kramer PIE licence for $60 over a month now, but I think that the price I'm asking for is too high. So, why $60? Because I have to pay $30.90 WUP that I can sell it and yes, I'd like to get at least a half of that money to my pocket (that other half goes to Waves because of the WUP).
Old 19th February 2016
  #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 19064ac View Post
I've been trying to sell my Kramer PIE licence for $60 over a month now, but I think that the price I'm asking for is too high. So, why $60? Because I have to pay $30.90 WUP that I can sell it and yes, I'd like to get at least a half of that money to my pocket (that other half goes to Waves because of the WUP).
Amazing right? Its selling right now for 249 dollars.
Old 19th February 2016
  #176
Deleted 19064ac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassist30 View Post
Amazing right? Its selling right now for 249 dollars.
Waves MSRP's...

And if I'd like to sell ALL my Waves plugins (see the list below) for about 1800 dollars (too much AND not enough) the WUP will cost me $800-$900.

Bass Rider | Butch Vig Vocals | CLA Bass | CLA Classic Compressors | dbx 160 | Doppler | EMI TG12345 | H-Comp | JJP Analog Legends | Kramer HLS | Kramer PIE | Kramer Master Tape | MondoMod | Musicians 2 | OneKnob Louder | OneKnob Pumper | REDD | Reel ADT | Renaissance Bass | RS56 | Scheps 73 | Studio Classics Collection | The King’s Microphones | TrueVerb | Vitamin
Old 19th February 2016
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J4R10 View Post
Waves MSRP's...

And if I'd like to sell ALL my Waves plugins (see the list below) for about 1800 dollars (too much AND not enough) the WUP will cost me $800-$900.

Bass Rider | Butch Vig Vocals | CLA Bass | CLA Classic Compressors | dbx 160 | Doppler | EMI TG12345 | H-Comp | JJP Analog Legends | Kramer HLS | Kramer PIE | Kramer Master Tape | MondoMod | Musicians 2 | OneKnob Louder | OneKnob Pumper | REDD | Reel ADT | Renaissance Bass | RS56 | Scheps 73 | Studio Classics Collection | The King’s Microphones | TrueVerb | Vitamin

I'm not a waves fan but that's a little high on the wup. I thought it was 300 maxed.
Old 19th February 2016
  #178
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stardustmedia View Post
Just saying: Never WUP'ed until now, since like 4-5 years. Yesterday updated all my 20 Waves plugins to 9.6.x

Don't overdo the thinking about WUP. It's a good price. If you still cannot afford it, I can understand that, just don't buy Waves. Only get freeware. Please just stop expecting everything for eternity for free. Not gonna happen
It's just that I can take everything else including iLok and UAD stuff to new computer with new OS's and pay nothing.
Old 19th February 2016
  #179
Deleted 19064ac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassist30 View Post
I'm not a waves fan but that's a little high on the wup. I thought it was 300 maxed.
"Why does my Waves Update Plan cost more than $300? – Read More"

Ok, $584.00 (I had four plugins still covered with WUP). But still... $584.00!!! And over $900 if I had to WUP all my Waves plugins.
Old 20th February 2016
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J4R10 View Post
"Why does my Waves Update Plan cost more than $300? – Read More"

Ok, $584.00 (I had four plugins still covered with WUP). But still... $584.00!!! And over $900 if I had to WUP all my Waves plugins.
Yikes Didn't know that.
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