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Logic user shaking in his boots
Old 20th January 2007
  #61
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vinco's Avatar
 

That's an interesting statement you made Doctor.

How long do you think it will take before anything stable comes?

To me, I can see this in 5 years or so...

Vinc'
Old 20th January 2007
  #62
Gear Addict
 
Doktorfuture's Avatar
 

4 to 5 years.

I'd say it's 35% there with this next OS release, 65% with the next, and 85% with the third. The problem is, it's such an ambitious and complex goal, it's not going to be 100% for a long time. It'll be stable enough for project studios next release, and many forgiving professional studios after that. When it's at 85%, people will likely have developed coping mechanisms for the quality/complexity conundrum.

Like, I bought a MUSE receptor to hopefully improve reliability, but it still crashes as much, if not more. The only benefit is that it comes back after a crash in just a few seconds, and continues from where it went off. I see in this NAMM there's that (M-Audio? aww heck I can't remember) DJ system that puts wrappers around VST's so when they crash, they don't bring everything down.

Music software's so unreliable, most of the innovation will be in self-healing systems. That's going to be the last 15%. Something like IBM's Autonomic computing. Right now, you can turn a knob and make everything clip and the DAW is clueless. In the future it will employ control-theory feed-back processes to keep things optimized.

Oh I'm full of ideas tonight. Must be the ice cream. mmmmmm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinco View Post
That's an interesting statement you made Doctor.

How long do you think it will take before anything stable comes?

To me, I can see this in 5 years or so...

Vinc'
Old 20th January 2007
  #63
Lives for gear
 
Jazzpunk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomichael View Post
Trust me. If EVERYONE elses wifes and girlfriends were getting hotter and hotter every 6 months. You'd complain.
Too funny
Old 20th January 2007
  #64
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
After 6 years of what??? Using it, or switching?

If you're gonna slam something, try to be more clear, and have more than 2 posts.
__________________
I used Logic for 6 years,I still have that program in my computer[I didn’t sell the key],the thing is that there are so many good things in other daw’s that they make your workflow much faster and easier than Logic,I am not slaming no ones door’s but If you want to stay on top at least follow the trends[also at least everybody’s wife including mine does that since we are talking about that too ]than you have to listen and to change more often ,that’s it.as far as my 2 post thing…keeping busy myselfheh
Old 20th January 2007
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Boss Man View Post
Yep. GarageBand Lite for your iPhone.
Apple patented a virtual skin technology that would go with the multitouch interface on the iPhone. In their filing, they gave an example of a MIDI interface, like a keyboard. Basically, the iPhone's (or similar device's) screen turns into a picture of a mini synth keyboard or whatever other virtual skin is conjured up, so "GarageBand Lite for your iPhone" is something we'll probably get.

-matt
Old 20th January 2007
  #66
16942
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiMattMatt View Post
For me, the big story of NAMM is no Logic 8. It really is frustrating because when Apple bought eMagic it raised expectations that Logic would flourish. But instead, it flounders. So if you're invested in Logic, it's hard not to be at least a little pissed at No News At NAMM.

I don't think Stevie Wonder was literally bitching (or maybe he was) but Ray Kurzweil delivered in a way that Apple has not. Ray K was visionary, and Apple is visionary. But where's Apple's version of Logic?

I don't mean to argue with you, and obviously it's just a matter of time before Logic gets a boost. And it is pretty awesome the way it is. But this past week they moved the doomsday clock two minutes closer to midnight. Time is ticking away, dude. So to be honest, I'm feeling a little kindship with the whiners on this one. Thought we'd get Logic 8!

Maybe it needs Leopard, who knows?

-matt
I was at NAMM yesterday at the Apple booth and while I do not want to name drop or self-aggrandize I can confidently say the following:

The Logic audio engine was completetly re-written to allow future development on the MacIntel and it was a BIG job. Logic 8 is almost a new app and it just isn't done yet. I think they are wise to wait until it is REALLY done. We all remember what happened with Logic Pro 7.0. don't we?

Everybody has a right to want what they want in a DAW and like all products the developers will pick and choose their priorities and the marketplace will decide if they have chosen wisely.
Old 20th January 2007
  #67
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomichael View Post
Trust me. If EVERYONE elses wifes and girlfriends were getting hotter and hotter every 6 months. You'd complain.
Bravo.
Old 21st January 2007
  #68
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

i don't know if my woman is getting hotter and hotter as the years go by, but she gets more and more beautiful to me. but i work like that, i go out of the way to look for what's good, what's working, what turns me on. because the other stuff, the crap, the headaches, it's always there if i want to see it. sometimes, it's good to see it; most times, it just makes acid in my stomach.

you can appreciate what you have and milk it for all it's worth as you smile at your accomplishments, you can press for improvements using any tone of voice you see fit, you can grumble about everything and refuse to be placated by anything, or you can mix and match all of the above as your style dictates. this is your dream, make of it as you will.

aristotle (or was it plato?) said "never discourage anyone who is showing even the slightest signs of improvement". maybe you can apply that to apple, maybe not.

me, i just finished a gargantuan project where i recreated several dozen region-intense multitrack sessions from dp to logic. i am fluent in both daws, and spent 3 40-hour weeks doing the same exact things in both programs concurrently. i am even more thrilled with logic than ever before, because for every process i had to perform i was able to find, tweak, and/or create a string of key commands to make it go quicker and easier. better still, logic's interface is instantaneous, it keeps up with my hands and my brain. dp drags like a tortoise on heroin. not that there's anything wrong with turtles on smack.

it also became abundantly clear that both programs were chock full of their own quirks and frustrations, neither is even remotely close to perfect, and which set of aggravations was less annoying was determined purely by my own personal work flow and style. someone else, on the same project, may well have found dp to be the indisputable master of the task. ain't no truth here, just stories to be read and forgotten.

i reckon it's time for me to eat a lot of sushi, it's been a long day.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 21st January 2007
  #69
Lives for gear
 
audiomichael's Avatar
 

I hear what you're saying ubk. I found a new keycommand in Logic today that makes my workflow even faster. I tend to find something like that in Logic about every month or so. This one came at a good time, so I can pretend it was a new update

I really love Logic, and like a parent, I just want it to be all that it could be. I don't want to see it abused and discarded by it's new girlfriend (Apple).
Old 21st January 2007
  #70
Lives for gear
 
emkay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
i don't know if my woman is getting hotter and hotter as the years go by, but she gets more and more beautiful to me. but i work like that, i go out of the way to look for what's good, what's working, what turns me on. because the other stuff, the crap, the headaches, it's always there if i want to see it. sometimes, it's good to see it; most times, it just makes acid in my stomach.

you can appreciate what you have and milk it for all it's worth as you smile at your accomplishments, you can press for improvements using any tone of voice you see fit, you can grumble about everything and refuse to be placated by anything, or you can mix and match all of the above as your style dictates. this is your dream, make of it as you will.

aristotle (or was it plato?) said "never discourage anyone who is showing even the slightest signs of improvement". maybe you can apply that to apple, maybe not.

me, i just finished a gargantuan project where i recreated several dozen region-intense multitrack sessions from dp to logic. i am fluent in both daws, and spent 3 40-hour weeks doing the same exact things in both programs concurrently. i am even more thrilled with logic than ever before, because for every process i had to perform i was able to find, tweak, and/or create a string of key commands to make it go quicker and easier. better still, logic's interface is instantaneous, it keeps up with my hands and my brain. dp drags like a tortoise on heroin. not that there's anything wrong with turtles on smack.

it also became abundantly clear that both programs were chock full of their own quirks and frustrations, neither is even remotely close to perfect, and which set of aggravations was less annoying was determined purely by my own personal work flow and style. someone else, on the same project, may well have found dp to be the indisputable master of the task. ain't no truth here, just stories to be read and forgotten.

i reckon it's time for me to eat a lot of sushi, it's been a long day.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

Hey man first of all gotta say I love your posts, you've got a good head and poetic "slant' on life that resonates with me, I'm a committed "hetero" so no worries there. just sometimes like to acknowledge, good work, good thinking, good people. Maybe next time I'm in NYC we can hook up. Cheers and enjoy the party at James Lugo's. gotta go, I'm almost late!.....cheers...
Old 21st January 2007
  #71
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doktorfuture View Post
4 to 5 years.

I'd say it's 35% there with this next OS release, 65% with the next, and 85% with the third. .

Just in time for the release of OS XI when Apple switches to [fill in the blank] processors which are faster and more ready to handle the future computing needs.
Old 22nd January 2007
  #72
Gear Addict
 
Doktorfuture's Avatar
 

We should be so lucky! Mac OS XI is gonna be SEXI

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveH View Post
Just in time for the release of OS XI when Apple switches to [fill in the blank] processors which are faster and more ready to handle the future computing needs.
Old 22nd January 2007
  #73
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doktorfuture View Post
Apple wants to sell you more apple boxes (more in line with the iTV format, or something akin to the X-Serve) rather than having you go to other vendors for DSP accelerators.
that would be smart, but i have to wonder why they haven't done a damn thing since introducing distributed processing in logic two years ago. as far as i know, it only works with the stock plugins, and anyone who can choke a dual or quad g5 is obviously going to have some third party software in the equation.
Old 22nd January 2007
  #74
Here for the gear
Listen people, read and read well, so you won't keep asking a bunch of questions about why no major updates. Usaually updates are to fix bugs, hence the mass amounts of updates you see from software companies. Every now and then you'll see them add things through and update, but generally it's to fix major bugs.

Apple is not into doing an update to their software every 2 months just cause users ask for it, they are into making software that works, and works well for a broad number of users.

Now with all that said, I was at Namm, and I did hear that there was an update coming, nothing was said about it being Logic Pro 8, or 7.5. All I heard was that there was and update coming, soon was not in the vocab. So we'll all have to be patient.

The thing that gets me is that Logic is a very deep program, so it's amazing to me that people keep wanting a update to add things, or that people have all these problems with Logic. My Logic runs well with no crashes or hicups. Logic comes with a help guide, if some of you were ever to read it, you wouldn't have as many questions as some of you have. Have some of you gotten into what Ultrabeat can do? I mean really gotten into it? Logic is deep enough were they really wouldn't have to add anything for years except for bug updates.

My point stop asking for an update, and learn your program.
Old 22nd January 2007
  #75
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Matthew Murray's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjigga3000 View Post
Listen people, read and read well, so you won't keep asking a bunch of questions about why no major updates. Usaually updates are to fix bugs, hence the mass amounts of updates you see from software companies. Every now and then you'll see them add things through and update, but generally it's to fix major bugs.

Apple is not into doing an update to their software every 2 months just cause users ask for it, they are into making software that works, and works well for a broad number of users.

Now with all that said, I was at Namm, and I did hear that there was an update coming, nothing was said about it being Logic Pro 8, or 7.5. All I heard was that there was and update coming, soon was not in the vocab. So we'll all have to be patient.

The thing that gets me is that Logic is a very deep program, so it's amazing to me that people keep wanting a update to add things, or that people have all these problems with Logic. My Logic runs well with no crashes or hicups. Logic comes with a help guide, if some of you were ever to read it, you wouldn't have as many questions as some of you have. Have some of you gotten into what Ultrabeat can do? I mean really gotten into it? Logic is deep enough were they really wouldn't have to add anything for years except for bug updates.

My point stop asking for an update, and learn your program.
Since you're so much more knowledgeable in logic pro 7 than the rest of us, fill me in on how we are to use our outboard and print it back to logic tracks without using any backwards-ass latency fixing third party plugins?

Logic certainly does have depth, but it also still has to keep current. Most of the other major playing DAWs all have these modernized features (hardware pinging, etc) and Logic has fallen behind in that regard.

I agree it's still the best DAW platform for my needs. But some of these key missing features have really started to affect me since I switched to an out-of-the-box setup.

So fill me in.
Old 23rd January 2007
  #76
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horseface's Avatar
I find it mildly amusing that people get sassy about software not being updated. This year, I've released 2 albums and around 6 singles and a couple of remixes without feeling the need to update Logic once. It works fine for me and continues to do so. I don't give a double toss what other DAW people are doing and what toys they have or don't have, really. I certainly don't feel that I'm in competition with other DAW users.

Why do people want more/new features all the time? Are they making music, or simply wanting to run a studio full o'toys? The shiniest, newest toys?



Of course, asking this kind of question is asking for trouble on Gearslutz...

tutt

I think I've finally started ignoring the toys and instead I'm concentrating on the music. Maybe I need a guitar centre credit card before it's too late...
Old 23rd January 2007
  #77
Lives for gear
 
Matthew Murray's Avatar
Don't get me wrong man, I'm just as laid back as the next guy.
Do you use outboard processors and logic pro?

Quote:
Originally Posted by horseface View Post
I find it mildly amusing that people get sassy about software not being updated. This year, I've released 2 albums and around 6 singles and a couple of remixes without feeling the need to update Logic once. It works fine for me and continues to do so
Old 23rd January 2007
  #78
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User View Post
Software is just a tool. What happens if your power screwdriver breaks? Do you still use it to hammer the screws in because it's your favourite screwdriver? No, you use a different one.
Switching from Logic to Cubase to whatever is not quite like switching screwdrivers. Most people here have huge studio setups based around their DAW of choice, along with compatible hardware. Literally thousands of dollars in equipment. So to just 'switch' to another DAW is an odd statement, to say the least.
Old 23rd January 2007
  #79
Gear Addict
 
Wiggum, Ralph's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stmiller View Post
Switching from Logic to Cubase to whatever is not quite like switching screwdrivers. Most people here have huge studio setups based around their DAW of choice, along with compatible hardware. Literally thousands of dollars in equipment. So to just 'switch' to another DAW is an odd statement, to say the least.
This is why Logic 8 is important to me. I'm still on Logic 5.5(PC). Saying my computer is slow, is an understatement. I tried most of the other daws out there. But I'm just more comfortable with Logic(and Protools) So I had plans on buying a Mac and run Logic 7. Cool. But I would be pissed off if I buy Logic 7 and then months down the line, Logic 8 comes out, and I have to shell out more cash for that.

Does anybody know/can guess Apple/Logic policy for recently purchased owners of Logic.
Old 23rd January 2007
  #80
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Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
I can guess that you'll pay the upgrade price no matter when you buy Logic 7. It's a pretty safe bet that Logic 8 and several other Pro App upgrades will be announced along with Leopard and the new 8 core Macs. Apple will want to show off their new OS with apps made specifically for it.

I'm saving up now for my 8 core Mac, Symphony card and Logic 8. Maybe even 2 more Rosettas. Actually I'll probably wait until 8.1 to start using it for paid customers though.
Old 24th January 2007
  #81
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by stmiller View Post
Switching from Logic to Cubase to whatever is not quite like switching screwdrivers. Most people here have huge studio setups based around their DAW of choice, along with compatible hardware. Literally thousands of dollars in equipment. So to just 'switch' to another DAW is an odd statement, to say the least.
But I have thousands of pounds in equipment, so my studio must be 1.984 times the size of theirs. heh

You're right, though. Our situation is somewhat different to that of the average recording studio who's owner will have invested and streamlined his tool kit to produce a relatively focused range of products (i.e. recordings) to the highest possible quality in the most efficient manner.

Our range of products are much more diverse than those of a typical recording studio, so all of our studios are equipped with whatever tools best suit the current project. For us, switching a DAW is simply a matter of booting it up. If we find any incompatible hardware, we simply replace it.

I have to say, however, that if your main DAW is Logic, I can't think of much hardware that you'd need to replace in order to move to Cubase or Digital Performer. Can you?
Old 24th January 2007
  #82
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Switchcraft's Avatar
 

I really wouldnt worry about logic not coming out with an update last week. I dont really have any major bugs, and It was pretty well known from SOS article that 8 will be using alot of the core audio changes in 10.5.

I just started messing with midi CC region based automation last night. That is a brilliant function. That was a pro Tools killer of automation for me.
Old 24th January 2007
  #83
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ted demen's Avatar
 

well for those that just neeed to know...
my good friend works for a high-end-only store that installs protools hd rigs (as well as logic) and his boss is close buddies with a logic developer, and apparently logic 8 will be out soon.
(he said that it was planned to be announced at namm but held back last minute to sort out some bugs/issues)

but ofcourse: no exact date (and there is always the chance this info is just a rumour sice im just repeating what a friend told me... who knows)
Old 24th January 2007
  #84
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Tantrum The Cat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomichael View Post
Eeeeks!!! Another NAMM goes by with no significant Logic update. WOW!

Just about every other software developer has put out multiple major updates.

I used to feel like Logic was far superior (not ProTools' audio, but the comprehensive midi/audio) to all of the other DAW's, but now I feel like Logic is being neglected so that Apple can make phones. I'm scared. I switched from ProTools 3 years ago...I hope I don't have to switch back in a year because Logic is dead.
Word on the street is that Logic 8 will make its debut at Musikmesse. But you didn't hear that from me. *whistles*
Old 24th January 2007
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tantrum The Cat View Post
Word on the street is that Logic 8 will make its debut at Musikmesse. But you didn't hear that from me. *whistles*
But this is the street.

And because of Apple's policy of firing those who leak, we're all just spinning our wheels on this one.

Nonetheless, a summary of word on the street:

- Logic 8 is coming out at NAMM. OK, maybe not.
- Logic 8 will be announced soon and without fanfare.
- Logic 8 will be announced with fanfare and in connection with Leopard, since it relies on new OS features.
- Logic 8 will be announced at Musikmesse, because it is the next major music trade show.
- Logic 8 will be announced in connection with forthcoming upgrades to Apple's desktop machines.
- Logic 8 will be announced at an event unveiling upgrades to the entire constellation of Apple's professional media production software.
- Logic 8 will never be announced because with all the fuss about the iPhone, Apple simply forgot about it.
- Logic 8 has already been announced but the anouncement has gone all but unnoticed by a userbase that is so deeply entrenched in Logic 7 that it has no time to worry about such trivialities as added features, enhanced stability, and improvements in user interface and workflow.

There you have it, my friend: The Street.
Old 24th January 2007
  #86
Gear Addict
 
Tantrum The Cat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiMattMatt View Post
There you have it, my friend: The Street.
Has it come to this? STREETS IS WATCHIN', YO!

But seriously, the Musikmesse rumour came from someone who claims to have spoken directly to an Apple rep.*

And as an aside: I don't really get the "Apple neglects Logic update for iPhone" line of thinking. There's no way the same division would be responsible for both products, and what's more... I really want an iPhone! And I've been using Logic since '95...










*(Insert heard-it-from-a-friend-who-heard-it-from-a-friend-who-was-talking-to-his-niece's-hairdresser's-first-cousin-twice-removed joke here.)
Old 25th January 2007
  #87
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horseface's Avatar
OMG! I need it like NOW! I cannot be life withouts its! OMG! Apple GRRR! I need it now or else I am the sick!

I can't wait for it to come out, then some plonkers upgrade to it mid-project. Then the forum will be full of "OMG, I am so very super angry at Apple for releasing this and me upgrading and it not work and break my old songs and make me the angry wahhhhh!!!" posts. Always the same bloody story.

heh


I don't use external effects or processors, but I use lots of external instruments. There aren't really any external effects that excite me any more. In the box unless I really, really can't.

Old 25th January 2007
  #88
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomichael View Post
Eeeeks!!! Another NAMM goes by with no significant Logic update. WOW!

Just about every other software developer has put out multiple major updates.
the fact that there is an update is pretty worthless - and up to now there is not one other DAW that runs as smoothly on my Mac - Live (5 and 6) have lots of problems with Samplers (try to load Scarbee CEP in Live5 into what you like - nice) - which is obviously a bug (and this issue on Mac is so obvious for several years now)..... Cubase SX does not run smooth (although I wish I had the editing power in Logic), DP I have no current version .... And Cubase 4 update is as always only implemented half way - VST3 and side-chaining etc is due to come .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomichael View Post
I used to feel like Logic was far superior (not ProTools' audio, but the comprehensive midi/audio) to all of the other DAW's, but now I feel like Logic is being neglected so that Apple can make phones. I'm scared. I switched from ProTools 3 years ago...I hope I don't have to switch back in a year because Logic is dead.
Logic has not improved in terms of editing facilities and they really should address that .... But Logic 7 not that old (2.3 years or so) - there was the Intellimac transition (where Steinberg just skipped lots of old plugins and features, etc. so a lot of work) and that took time.

Let's see what is announced at Musikmesse .....

best
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