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Duet Firewire and El Capitan Audio Interfaces
Old 9th November 2015
  #1
Gear Addict
 

Duet Firewire and El Capitan

I want to upgrade to El Capitan. I have the Apogee Firewire Duet. They said they are not supporting it. Has anyone upgraded with the DUET. Does Maestro App still work?

thanks
Old 9th November 2015
  #2
Lives for gear
 

You're correct that we're no longer supporting the Duet Firewire on 10.11 El Capitan, but we've heard from many customers who have gone ahead and updated their OS anyway and the majority have told us that the hardware and software is working the same for them as it was on 10.10. Unfortunately we can't guarantee it, but it does seem to be working for a lot of people.
Old 10th November 2015
  #3
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skyshaver's Avatar
 

Seriously, f^&% forced obsolescence. This train has to stop before we're up to our necks in obsolete electronics. The Duet is still perfectly functional hardware that operates at professional fidelity, why would you stop supporting it? You've essentially forcing me to try and stay on Mavericks for as long as I can so I can still use a piece of hardware I've only owned for 5 years. While Apple does everything in their power to convince me to "upgrade" my OS. Suddenly tape decks and hardware sequencers seem really attractive again.
Old 10th November 2015
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyshaver View Post
Seriously, f^&% forced obsolescence. This train has to stop before we're up to our necks in obsolete electronics. The Duet is still perfectly functional hardware that operates at professional fidelity, why would you stop supporting it? You've essentially forcing me to try and stay on Mavericks for as long as I can so I can still use a piece of hardware I've only owned for 5 years. While Apple does everything in their power to convince me to "upgrade" my OS. Suddenly tape decks and hardware sequencers seem really attractive again.
You should document yourself a bit and then you'll probably point your anger at Apple rather than Apogee....

KA
Old 10th November 2015
  #5
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skyshaver's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KorgAddict View Post
You should document yourself a bit and then you'll probably point your anger at Apple rather than Apogee....

KA
They're all complicit in this nonsense. Apple isn't forcing Apogee not to support legacy devices, that is a choice Apogee is making. Apple gets my disdain for lots of other things, forced obsolescence and abandoning legacy hard/software among them.
Old 10th November 2015
  #6
Here for the gear
Well, Apple does release a new version of OS X every 15 months or so, and it can be really difficult for software and hardware developers to know exactly what Apple is going to break beforehand, AND Apple themselves tend not to backwards-support older versions of OS X, so I would direct one's anger more towards Apple than anyone else.

I think the wise thing to do would be to simply install El Capitan on a new hard drive partition first, that way you can test and see if it breaks anything before fully committing to it.
Old 10th November 2015
  #7
Gear Head
 

My Duet 1 has been so unreliable on my home iMac that it has put me off upgrading my studio setup from RME to the new ensemble.
It sounds pretty good but has been terrible since leopard. I wish Apogee would write their own drivers instead of relying on Apple.
Old 10th November 2015
  #8
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skyshaver's Avatar
 

Apogee was Mac only for years, they know what's happening. I have no intention of installing El Capitan. It will brick Logic 9 and more than likely the Duet as well. Seems Apple is abandoning firewire in general. I have $3k invested in firewire audio interfaces, one is <3 years old, one <5 years. I have $3k+ invested in computers that have firewire ports. I am a musician, there is simply no way I can keep up with the cycle of obsolescence. Not that it matters how I feel about it Capitalism will do as it does.
Old 10th November 2015
  #9
Gear Maniac
 

Thank god we have the option to vote with our wallets as these are merely for profit corporations providing solutions that you may take or leave. My solution was to install OSX on my pc and add a compatible firewire pci card, problem solved. Interface works great on 10.11. Also firewire works on any mac with thunderbolt as they have a thunderbolt to firewire adapter.
Old 10th November 2015
  #10
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonSpacht View Post
You're correct that we're no longer supporting the Duet Firewire on 10.11 El Capitan, but we've heard from many customers who have gone ahead and updated their OS anyway and the majority have told us that the hardware and software is working the same for them as it was on 10.10. Unfortunately we can't guarantee it, but it does seem to be working for a lot of people.
Don,

could you say something about the Ensemble Firewire? Same Problem, or will it work with thunderbolt-firewire adaptor on 10.11?
Thank you in advance
Old 10th November 2015
  #11
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by livingloud View Post
Don,

could you say something about the Ensemble Firewire? Same Problem, or will it work with thunderbolt-firewire adaptor on 10.11?
Thank you in advance
The Ensemble FireWire is in the same situation as the Duet - it seems to be working for most people on 10.11 as it did on 10.10, but we can't guarantee it. The FireWire Core Audio driver in 10.11 which it uses is basically "legacy" code now, and Apple will not be maintaining or developing it further.

And yeah, that is pretty disappointing for us, too. But sometimes I think that people who don't totally realize how relatively tiny our company and industry is jump to this image of some corporate fat-cat meeting where a bunch of guys in suits twirl their mustaches and declare "Ah yes, in 2015 we will break everything with a FireWire port and charge twice as much for the latest LightningWire-Type-C connector! Muahaha!"

In reality we're just a bunch of audio geeks trying to chase the latest technology and connectivity along with the rest of the world, and things do move really quickly these days. To skyshaver's point, I completely agree that it is a shame that the negative results of this speed of change are obsolete electronics - but on the upside, it also means a lot of incredible innovation! You certainly could move back to tape decks and hardware sequencers, but after using the amazingly powerful modern computers, DAWs, and hardware available today - how badly do you really miss those days?

Quote:
Originally Posted by benqbasic View Post
My Duet 1 has been so unreliable on my home iMac that it has put me off upgrading my studio setup from RME to the new ensemble.
It sounds pretty good but has been terrible since leopard. I wish Apogee would write their own drivers instead of relying on Apple.
That actually is what we did for the new Ensemble - it uses our own PCIe audio driver, similar to how Symphony I/O works. I'm sorry to hear about your experience with your Duet though, and I would encourage you to contact our Tech Support team about it if it's still giving you trouble and you haven't already.
Old 10th November 2015
  #12
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonSpacht View Post

In reality we're just a bunch of audio geeks trying to chase the latest technology and connectivity along with the rest of the world, and things do move really quickly these days.

Thank you Don, for being honest. So, even with a thunderbolt-firewire adaptor, the firewire drivers are not longer supported by apple? Really strange - their Cinema display still has a firewire port, if I recall correctly.

From my point of view - how old is the Duet1 / Ensemble? 8 years? If it did not reach its break-even-point in 8 years, it surely would not in 10. I think it is perfectly acceptable to expect something like 5 years lifetime for computer-accessory in professional use. Most people change their cars, wives and houses more often than that. ;-)

However, it hurts if some semi-pro or enthusiast buys a Ensemble used and stumbles across this thread 2 days later. Uargs. But to be honest, it was clear that the day would come - I was just hoping it would be a few years later
So, I will wait with updating to 10.11, and if it will be necessary, the Ensemble will hopefully live on as a converter in standalone-mode via Adat/optical.

4 mic-preamps, a good headphone-amp and some additional line-out/in should still be ok if you consider the price for a Ensemble on the used market.
Old 10th November 2015
  #13
Gear Addict
 

I'm in the same boat with my Duet 1. Sad to see a great little piece of engineering get mothballed.

My issue is, what to jump to next?

i'm looking at the Tascam UH7000, or the new MOTU Microbook 11c. I don't have a massive budget And I'm hoping USB 2 won't become redundant
I'm open to suggestions/recommendations.


By the way, here's a short video about obsolescence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxRFueciG9w
Old 11th November 2015
  #14
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonSpacht View Post
That actually is what we did for the new Ensemble - it uses our own PCIe audio driver, similar to how Symphony I/O works. I'm sorry to hear about your experience with your Duet though, and I would encourage you to contact our Tech Support team about it if it's still giving you trouble and you haven't already.
Thanks for the reply.
Unfortunately I have given up on the duet. Many people have the same problem with sync/crackling that I have though.

That is interesting about the new ensemble. I might have a look around and see if people are finding it stable then. Still RME are the gold standard in drivers.

Thanks.
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