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Old 22nd January 2007
  #31
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tuRnitUpsuM's Avatar
 

Manning

post was pre-coffee ....... I am better now

i do admit to being a Midi-noob though....and im still unfamiliar with PT.....

but i'm with ya .... CH 10 -drum fill..... rock.dp i believe.....


Quote:
they are a very well off company.....with a huge user base so dont be worried theyll stiff you for 50 buks....lol.
not at all..... ..... just wasn't sure i could do what u were suggesting with the demo is all.... i do plan on picking PT up.... just by the means indicated...which takes a few...as opposed to CC purchase.... time spent is taken for verification....on their end....thats all.

k....... with ya...... is all set.......

cheers
Old 22nd January 2007
  #32
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jay.....
step 2. (i'm gonna keep example simple for now.......later more exotic.)
..lol.)
just a simple C D E progression to let u get the hang of it.
two bars of C ...then two bars of D ..then two bars of E.
i also need to know what will you use to play the midi tracks to....?
MS cheesy internal pc chip synth ??
or an outboard from pc midi module ??
preferably GM compatible.
1. in bars view ..we are going to set up
2 bars of C...so drag in bars view.... the mouse over two blocks in track one.
they will hi lite. copy them ...then paste in bars view to
bars one and two of track two.
paste also in bars three and four of track three..
and bars five and six of track four.
track 2 will play the C based pattern.
track 3 the D pattern..and track 4 the E pattern...
2. in classic..trak two name field enter the name "C bass".
set CH to any other channel than 10. eg...2.
and set prg patch to bass for example. number 34.
set key to any value.
play back...you should now hear a bass following the drums.
tell me when you get that far.
play a C note on a kbd (juno..) and adjust KEY in classics view till you have
the pattern centered around C. so your bass is C centric.
3. in classic view....name it in track three....
D bass. once again change key to match a D note on keyboard (juno ??)
and prg patch 34.
and in track four name it E bass....prg patch 34.
set key to match an E on external keyboard.
play back. you should now hear drums playing with a bass playing C D E progression.
tell me when you get that far. make sure the tracks 2 3 and 4 have ch set to anything other than 10.
ch = 10 is for drums on track one.
tell me when u get this far....cos theres more triks.,..lol.
lots more....lol.
see if you can now figure out how to add further tracks playing other instruments...like a synth sound for example....or trumpet or whatever. see if you can build up a full arrangement.
notice how light the load is on your pc.
all the clues are above and i'll help u if u get stuck.
Old 22nd January 2007
  #33
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jay....
i forgot to mention.
to tune a track to the C or the D or the E.
another way is to look at the little piano keyboard at the top while the track is playing. notice it plays the notes on itself.
showing the midi notes being played.
so if its...the piano... playing for example 2 semitones down from C or whatever just raise the key value in classic track view on the track by 2.....until its playing around the C.
so once track two is "tuned" via the key column....
you know that D is two semitones above C and E two above D.
so if lets say C key value is 8...then D will be 10 and E 12.
its just lots of triks really.
in summary there are several displays/views showing graphically notes played.....
as youll discover.....piano keyboard, guitar fretboard, event editor, piano roll,
notation view etc.
if u become knowledgeable in these......youll see that even if you dont have a fancy external keyboard midi set up......you can do lots of midi tracks irrespective.
then when happy with arrangement plug in a softsynth.
some pg users use everything from cheap to exotic.....forte, roland softsynth,
thru to .......and check this out garritan orchestra.....but pricey.
notice also that if you find on the net say a midi song of a popular song...
you can import it and the software will tell you the chords in it......
display notation etc . lots of folks use this idea for practice/jamming etc etc.


also i dont know if u play guitar but notice a guitar tuner is built in.
Old 26th January 2007
  #34
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:( Had a rough couple days ! (worked two jobs consecutive...the new one -12 hr shift and old one -7hrs...... my eyeslids are glued open) lol.

Didn't forget about you my friend..... my apologizes.

k... step 2...

first thing first.... i don't have a midi in into the computer just yet.... :( ...... have just been recording Vox, Guitar, and the Roland (1/4" trs ) into the comp through the DAL .... the one thing missing from this card (Midi)... i'm having a look into the edirol usb-midi interfaces Manning....once the funds are in my hands...ill pick one up... they should suffice.... so i could exploit my Roland d-10 as a midi controller as well as sound module/keyboard.... but in the meantime.... ..... im gonna try the method you've posted in ur last post..... get familiar with the piano roll et al.... and use Asynth vsti among others i have loaded on the puter...


1-3 ...

having trouble hearing the bass (prg 34).... everything is set-up....the way uve listed.... copied blocks from track 1... pasted into track 2 bars 1-2 , track 3 bars 3-4, track 4 bars 5-6 .... keys in 8-10-12 respectfully.... not sure if the bass is in C centric.... can't hear it...ill adjust it closer to each respective key... C-D-E etc... but it just wont trigger the bass....


i'm probably missing something.... haven't slept much.... ill give'er another go ...tomorrow... (not working....... )....

cheers
Old 26th January 2007
  #35
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jay...
re not hearing bass.
look at the bass track in tracks view or the mixer ......
is the bass track fader up ??.not muted ??
i'll be gone for a few hours...lol....shopping with my wife.
feel least i can do as she bought me some nice studio stuff for xmas...lol.
what are u useing for the softsynth for the midi tracks ??
note.....there is an add on for powertracks....a multi timbral softsynth ....
do u have it ?? or are u useing the MS cheesy synth ??
Old 26th January 2007
  #36
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Hiya Manning


Quote:
re not hearing bass.
look at the bass track in tracks view or the mixer ......
is the bass track fader up ??.not muted ??
hehe.... i checked ...heh .... mixer as well as track..... faders at unity.... mute off.... (green check mark).... nuttin' .... i know im a midi noob... but i'm pretty sure i had it all rarin' to go..... and when no output on any of the tracks except the drum track...i figured i better pause and ask some ?s before Powertracks thinks im a meanie and refuses to play nice.

Quote:
i'll be gone for a few hours...lol....shopping with my wife.
feel least i can do as she bought me some nice studio stuff for xmas...lol
very nice........ fair is fair Manning...heh

Quote:
what are u useing for the softsynth for the midi tracks ??
note.....there is an add on for powertracks....a multi timbral softsynth ....
do u have it ?? or are u useing the MS cheesy synth ??
lol... manning its bad enough we gotta use the MS OS...... im really gonna try to stay away from the MS cheesy synth..... heh .... at least to to keep ur mind at ease.... i'm not sure i have the add on....(gonna look)....but i do have a bunch of different ones... Asynth101 .... Drumatic .... saw that garritan orchestra not bad...hehe.....

have a good one Manning..... and treat that Lady of urs right..... .... studio gear for X-mas?? you lucky duck....

cheers
Old 26th January 2007
  #37
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ps.....forgot to mention....
back from shopping....got a one gig usb drive for 18 buks...lol.
now time to detail further. plus some added tips.
ah i think i know what you did re bass volume...
(ive edited this post..).....MAKE SURE IN CLASSICS VIEW YOU SET BASS TRACK CH in the channel column to 2 for example.
to make sure u pasted into bass track.....check the events column in classic view
for the bass track...tell me if zero events show...it means u didnt paste in
correctly in bars view. if in fact events show...then make sure trak isnt muted n fader is up.
also if useing MS synth built into windows make sure in volume control playback dialog that the
SW synth isnt muted and fader is up.
ALSO TELL ME THIS....import a midi file into win media player....
DO U HEAR IT PLAY OR NOT ??
also make sure if useing the MS synth....in PREFERENCES output midi drivers you have it selected.
firstly tell me if in classics view u see events that are not zero in the
events column.
ALSO....MAKE SURE WHEN DOING PASTE...its logical.....
USE THE ONE TRACK PASTE option. under edit.
the other paste option is....as an example if you want to move/copy lots of midi events.
ie...in bars view lets say you have 16 midi tracks and you want to copy n paste them ALL
to another part of the song.
another example of useing....paste is lets say u have a song where you didnt have enough clik at beginning
for example.....thus whole song needs to move forward a couple of bars....
how u do this is..in bars view drag mouse over all tracks....
copy.....then position useing mouse...where you want the tracks moved to....then paste.
lots of interesting things to discover ninja.
note carefully in bars window the horiz carat cursor and its position in the bars window that tells you
where you are in the song.

heres another trik....
want a different "feel" for that drum track. with drum trak rok.dp
sounds a tad boring ??
no prob.....
set up same rok.dp on another free track.
under edit...go to pitch transpose midi and in the dialogue enter 22..
for the transpose amoount...notice how a different feel has occurred ??
and different drum sounds play back ?? really experiment with transpose amounts jay...
to turn standard drum patterns into different "drum feels".

heres another tip....
a nice way to learn about midi is to take a free midi song off the net or some come with powertracks
jay. open it in powertracks....and powertracks will tell u the chords in the song.
in the new version it will also do this with wav n mp3 files i understand also.
helpfull if u have a favorite song u wish to learn.
if a midi song .....notice the chord dialogue....the event editor, and notation editors.
in these editors u can do lots of things to the song.
if u wish. and bars view will let you move whole verses n chunks around n let u do your own version etc lol.
and put your own spin on the song.
beware of a midi got ya !!....its something all midi newbies dont understand.
so i'll warn you. when youve imported someone elses created midi song.
youll notice sometimes no matter what volume u set in the mixer...
the fader changes to the same position each time play is cliked....this is normal.
what the creator has done is embedded a set midi volume in the song.
at the beginning and/or various points....thus overriding you.
ie..a volume control parameter. to override n set your own go into event editor and delete it...
then set your vol in the mixer or tracks view where u want it.
and all will be kopasetic.
as i said lots of triks to find out...lol.
also notice if you want to position a midi track just in front of or behind the beat....
notice the precision of the paste display that lets you do this.
ie for pushes or lags. in front of or behind the beat.
also note..theres nothing to stop you for loads of drum patterns either create your own
OR...you can find scads of drum patterns on the net OR hook up say a midi drum machine you find cheap...
ive seen them for 50 buks...eg say an alesis....and record its midi out into powertracks..and save.
loads of options. on allanahs site youll find loads of midi songs you can experiment with.
note also to save buying expensive autotune software theres a trik in powertracks useing helicon.
you tune useing a midi track....youll see it in the helicon dialog.
if you get good at helicon u can create all sorts of voc fx and choirs etc.
if you need a good softsynth....
many pg users use these....
(note the affordable forte and roland ones....instead of the cheesy MS synth....!
you might want to ask folks which they prefer on the powerttracks forum..)
http://www.pgmusic.com/products_misc.htm
cos there are lots of alternatives.
heres the direct link to the forte one for example.
http://www.pgmusic.com/fortedxi.htm
OR u could use a cheap used external midi module like a roland sound canvas.
ive seen em cheap. this way no load on the computer unlike softsynths.
also notice.....powerT will let you import a midi file and seperate out to seperate midi tracks.
i'm sure this feature will come in reaper also.
note also in the new version of powerTks u can have up to 16 effects per track !!
kinda neat for the effects freaks....lol....u prolly have the pc power for it.
note the aux busses for audio tracks send/receive.
some other tips....jay.
youll notice on my song dragons at motogator i did some special effects.
these were all done in powertracks.
i'll point out a couple that were fun to do.
notice at one point the dragon....moves across the stereo image ??
(i dont claim to be an ace LA level audio engineer..i just have fun with thiese effects.)
how did i do this not haveing fancy gear ??
what i did was record mn hand in a doggie chow bin...
then useing edit>>>>audio effects....ring mod n chorus n flange n mucking around with settings morphed to a new sound.
this new sound i then duplicated. onto a second track.
on the first track i hilited the sound in waveform window...then useing gain change...
under audio effects i faded it in. n if i remember panned in the mixer all left.
on the duped track i did the opposite...faded it out useing gain change n panned all right...
if i remember. the little baby dragon sound at end end was a morph useing powertks audio effects of my cat purring ..
(i was giving it a treat while recording purr....lol.)
notice also if you wish to normalise or boost or cut gain on an audio track you can do this precisely in
the gain change dialog.
another tip...notice the midi randomise feature to get non robotic drum tracks if u wish.
as well as the fact u can edit independently the left n right channels of a stereo track.
final tip....if you have a boring sounding guitar track.....
duplicate it ..then mess around on the duplicated track with some of the guitar trail n echoplex settings
in audio effects. try alsp panning the original left and the duplicate right etc.
try also bas with some of the audio effects settings........i'm talking proper audio tracks here...
OR try useing some of the effects from the real time effects suite.....
(FX button in mixer window.......load up effect then experiment with some of the presets or create your own fav presets.)
a BIG POINT....notice in tracks view if you tell powertks what type of trak it is...
it will preload a series of audio effects for you to take further n experiment with.
youll see picture icons show up in tracks view.
some powertks users load up their own pics n preset fx chain also.
ie...their favorites. i believe rharv on the pg forum has done this and some others.
saves a lot of time for newbies figuring out which fx to use on which audio tracks.
try it on voc n bass and guitar tracks for example. its kinda handy to save lots of time.

lots to discover...lol.


all the best.
Old 29th January 2007
  #38
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tuRnitUpsuM's Avatar
 

Hiya Manning

man i have not gotten a whole lotta time lately :( for my true love... (music).

just wanted to thank you again for the tips you are sharing... thumbsup ...you're really helping me a bunch my friend in my Powertracks orientation.... heh .... shall i pay in money order or gear sending ?? hehe...heh

Those usb drives sure are handy.... ...nice score brother man.... i've been using one to transfer smaller files between interknot comp and the DAW.... great convience those things. Sure beats having a bazillion none-reusable CD-Rs...huh.

Starting from the beginning..... i noticed i must have incorrectly pasted in the Classic View... (zero events was showing up in the view)... it is working now....i do hear the Bass Tracks.... rock and roll time??

Cheers for the transpose trik !! really does make things alittle more interesting.... although very welcomed.... the samples were kinda on the bland side.... this helps all that much more.... good stuff.... been experimenting alittle bit this morning with that.... preferring the subtler things to the really outrageous.... can see this trick becoming used quite often for the seemingly simple rhythm work... just curious how much you use this method on some of the stuff you are collabing?

Forte looks like a steal at the price their asking..... MAN .... i gotta admit ..... the Powertracks DX effects are really nice sounding Manning..... and ive fallen heavily for some of them........ example being PG echo chorus.... and the auto wah...... they both sound incredible in cascade..... gotten a particular acoustic track recorded by another slut on the forum. to sound like an ethereal heavenlyish soundscape.... man the effects really create a beautiful painting with this particular example.... ill try posting the link.... but i have to receive permission to do so first....

lol...havin some fun with morphing are we?? .... very cool.... i sent for a demo and lit. about Kyma.....and it's morphing ability is first class.... but sadly outta my budget :( .... was very cool reading about how you've gone about messin with the effects.... LOL.... you know that treat/purring thing works with A&R too not just cats........ hehehe......so ive heard..... .... difference being the price tag on the treat bag....

Quote:
saves a lot of time for newbies figuring out which fx to use on which audio tracks.
AHHHHH but Mr Manning......... tis all the fun.

gonna continue messin about..... cheers Manning
Old 29th January 2007
  #39
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jay....
nah....i got enough gear.
no need for more. v kind of u though.

i just try to help decent folks like yourself that are open minded.
as your discovering powertracks has some/many veryintersting and unique features.
what annoys me sometimeare folks..andyour not one of course...
who poo poo the program without really going into it.
cos its so dam deep.
the people that develope it are very clever software engineers. imho.
use top line ADA convertors with it....and youll get the greatest sound quality.
the only limitation is the quality of the ADA....not the software.
as your discovering....theres a slew of neat audio effects built in.
did you find the echoplex yet ?? and guitar trails ?? settings ??
glad you got the bass running. as u can see ...its lots of triks.
yep..i'll be interested to see what you come up with useing the built in fx.
its all in understanding useing the right effect feature in the
right place. fyi..some falutin audio engr awhileback on the pg powertracks forum called the built in
fx world class. yes i like the echo chorus a LOT and use it a LOT.
really play around with all its settings to learn and save your custom patches.
to really hear the bass and drums etc youve set up sound superb...
the key is to route to an external midi module with great sounds in it or use a superb sounding softsynth.
another tip.....a fellow powertracks user let me listen to his amazeing drum tracks a few months back.
i was blown away..cos i'm lousy at drum tracks..particular his tom rolls.
so i asked him how he did it. his answer was...working heavilyin the notation midi editing view.
whichhe knows inside out. and i guess the piano roll.
notice ...you can do anything to a midi note if you click on it....
change it many ways....etc.
in summary how bland or beautifull your tracks end up is purely related to skill and choice of midi sound generating device.
starting out like yourself i might look for a used external
roland sound canvas multi timbral unit. thus this will play back all sorts of sounds at the
same time from powertracks...like drums, bass, synth, trumpet...
whatever. some powertracks users of course are useing exotic 2k
midi sound generating synths. BUT WHATEVER U CHOOSE MAKE SURE ITS MULTI TIMBRAL.
believe me with the right midi sound module a bass track that sounds bland with the MS cheesy softsynth will suddenly sound amazing.
it depends on your synth budget.
also....note...powertracks will now do audio time stretch n pitch shift...
all in the pdf's and manuals and videos that come with it.
notice also u can do midi to audio as well as audio to midi conversion.
the latter is best done on monophonic tracks.
all the best..n if u need other tips..shout.
i cant cover everything cos it would take 100 pages...lol.
one important thing....set your ppqn high for finer midi resolution.
underr options>>>resolution. peace.
oh i forgot to mention..many people make a big deal bout stem mixing...
useing an outboard mixer takeing the daw audio outs.
with the right multi in /out sound card i believe i read on the forums one can now do this.
i'll tell u abbout the 96 trak trik next time....peace.
Old 29th January 2007
  #40
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ps..jay.
forgot to mention....notice you can tap the tempo into a song at top right hand of screen..by bpm number....peace.
Old 29th January 2007
  #41
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tuRnitUpsuM's Avatar
 

LOL... running outta elbow room.... heh ... all them electron movers and modulating thing-a-ma-bobs fighting for spotlight space??

I hear ya

if the logo doesn't say a particular brand.... it must not be worthy of a look-see... :( ahhh well.... you know the saying.... what's their loss is our.........


Working on the A/D/A ....hehe but can completely comprehend the world-class statement... and u are absolutely right ....right place, right time, right vibe ..... and just about anything can suffice....

oh ive been really messin with the Bass tracks o'plenty .... and trying to figure out ways even you sir are unfamiliar with where by i could share with you....

all the Midi fussin about.... i'm beginning to really see i was missing out....and just can't wait to get that Roland hooked up and into the arsenal thru Midi.... instead of just audio outputs.... that way i'll be really able to make the most out of the onboard sound roms...... defintely will look into adding alot more multi-timbral synths over-time.... .... man o man.... i'm thanking you and cursing at the same time..... i thought i had my hands full already (pre-midi adventures...... lol)....but now!!!! lol....cheers Manning....heh

things will only get better !

cheers


p.s .... should you happen to have a stereo acoustic track you feel in need of alil sprucing up....try something like this Manning if ya care to give it a go..... helps if the orig. source is recorded in stereo.....but can be worked around.

duplicate the track til u have 4 stereo tracks....first two stereo tracks adjust to taste below unity gain.... First track apply the PG echo chorus and auto wah in cascade with an EQ capable of hi frequency adjustablity...(i used the Classic Eq from Kjaerhaus Audio...the "more air" preset is a good starting point... add maybe alil 200 hz bump)... echo chorus ( longish delay.... + 500ms) 60/40 percent mix (wet/dry...wet having the priority) .... auto wah ( 12ish distortion... tickling between 250-100 hz freq...resonance 6...sensitivity 8-10 ish....400ms release). Second stereo track.... reverb track..... adjust to taste cascading different reverbs trying not to make one stand out too too much.... tickle both..... i used Pg verb, Classic verb and a touch of SIR..( try any verb u enjoy using)... also used Blockfish compressor and Sonalksis SV-315 ...(again any comp u enjoy)... most just tickling.... making sure not to distort the signal.... tracks 3 and 4 convert to mono by hard panning 3 left 100 percent.....4 panned right 100 percent..... leaving the faders at unity. or too taste..... but being the driving force.... (original source).... 3-4 leaving the dynamics in tact of the audio..... but 1-2 sweetening the source ...... (1 = chorus echo etc) 2 (reverbish comp) adjusting each fader to taste in accordance for effect sweetening... (done in Reaper....btw.... with PG DX effects loaded up....as well as numerous VSTs).

cheers
Old 29th January 2007
  #42
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tuRnitUpsuM's Avatar
 

bpm .....tempo tap....



heh


cheers
Old 29th January 2007
  #43
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jay..ok..i freed up some time..
to help you with more triks.....
to save typing ..in these tips.. powertracks is called ptw which is
what lots of us users call it.
1. getting more than 48 traks.(96 trak trick.)
ptw has been 48 traks for years...i understand bcos the developers felt thats the
most pc's to this point could handle. due to processing power limits of pc's.
thus i suspect they prolly will rethink this now that powerfull machines are out.
but you can get way more tracks.
either fill up 48 tracks...mix to stereo and reimport the stereo mix to a track...
in a new blank session..now you have 47 more traks...
OR the 96 track trik. heres how...
have two studio musicians playing at once...
VERY IMP..make sure mixer feeding sound card pans one all left n tother..
all right. set the track to record to as STEREO..not mono.
thus two musicians per track = 96.
if you want to do something to the left or right independently ..
like lets say the left isnt hi enuf..just boost gain useing audio gain change
called up in waveform window after hiliting.
u could also get daft n record 96 .mix to stereo.reimport n add ..
oodles more...lol. as everything is in digital domain it will work fine.
but if your smart ..after 16 midi tracks...playing back to either external soundmodules or useing
softsynths youll have a very produced song ..without needing many audio tracks.
frankly ive never needed 48 tracks for a song.
2. midi hookups etc.
heres what i recommend for someone starting out to get the feel of it all.
a., recording midi...
midi keyboard >>>>>midi box>>>>ptw/pc.
i'll cover the midi box in a second.
b., playing back midi (if softsynths not used...less cpu power needed.)
ptw/pc>>>midi box>>>used multi timbral midi modules>>>mixer(to mix output of modules).
output of modules can then be recorded as oneor more audio tracks if u wish....
OR take the audio outs from sound card plus the midi module audio outs into an outboard mixer/stem mixing etc etc.
if this is your bent.
c.,the MIDI BOX ...
this is a little box that communicates tween the computer and midi ins n outs.
there are tons on the market. some hook up usb....put some musicians prefer for better timing
to hook up to a physical pc port. (pg n many on line shops sell them.
folks/users on the pg forums prolly know which are best ones currently...
as they change a lot.) some will drive a mountain of midi modules.
a lot of folks prefer hooking up to a port of the pc....rather than usb...
google for tons more info.
d., getting the best midi sounds.
this purely depends on how much your willing to spend on midi modules.
that bass you mentioned can sound very exotic with the right midi to sound generating module.
for a person starting maybe look for a cheap used roland sound canvas
multi timbral module.
e., communicating midi....
when recording from a midi keyboard a key point is to set the channel in classics or track view (CH)
to receive on the same channel as the midi keyboard is sending.
similarly .if u dont hear sound from a module on playback its likelyyou dont have its receiving channel set right.
for example lets say u recorded on channel 7 in ptw trumpet....
and u want to use a trumpet sound in the external midi module..
you must ensure the patches receive channel is also set to 7 ...
see what i mean ?? normally drums are channel 10.
these are basics...maybe get a midi book also.
there are also lots of forums n tutorials on pg's site and in ptw manuals.
if u get ptw ensure you go thru all the helps..v extensive.
3., the ideal situation....
the ideal set up is to have two mixers.
one feeding the signals to the sound card....
and the second takeing the signals from the sound card eg.delta or whatever...
as well as the external midi modules audio outs which in turn feeds musicians cans n main monitoring.
4. mastering...
jay inotice lots of folks on GS buying oodles of mastering software.
with ptw you really dont need to..if you really dig into the audio fx suite.
theres even tape emulation 15 ips as a setting....limiters/comps/para eq/graphic eq/
and tons of other stuff.
thuis what u can do is mixdown your song to stereo..then
just import the stereo wave back into a new ptw session n go about your mastering business.
useing the various tools built into ptw.
notice also the frequency analyser.called RTA (real time analyser)..
this will also help u in this regard.

hope all this helps.
if u want more just shout...cos there are a 100 more tips.
all the best.
ps....NOTICE send on tracks....and the fact you can load in the real time echo chorus to affect several tracks
to save cpu power...eg vocal tracks.
ps..if u scan the ptw forums youll see pro tools users using it....
but they need the tools name i guess to attract clients...lol.
nice effects ideas ya got there jay !!
hope u now see how lots of midi tracks can save your processor for
the key upfront effects on audio tracks.
aah...your clever..youve discovered useing ptw's fx in rpr...
now you see why i say both packages together ...ptw and rpr are an
unbeatable combo for under 100 buks imho...beats tons of other more expensive daw solutions....
kudos to you. note.u can use all the ptw midi features n export to reaper ALSO....all best chum.
Old 29th January 2007
  #44
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jay...
heres some final info which should cover everything off.
the midi basics for you.
and added points. (ptw means powertracks.)
i will also show you how prolly youll never have to upgrade to a quad core...
something i'm debating myself right now...n thus save buks.
by the way on a one processor system here with powertracks loaded to the gills with audio tracks load up of a song is pretty instantaneous..is it the same for you on your dual ??
anyway before i get to the main points i thought i should also mention if your card D sound device also has midi
i/o ports on it....dont think it has ??...you would connect your midi master keyboard to midi in on the sound device...
then on midi out of the card D...connect its out to a midi splitter box...
with several midi outs....each out connected to midi in of a multi
timbral sound generator...
if not youll need a midi box as ipreviously mentioned.
now heres a GOT YA....never daisy chain midi sound generating devices..
via midi thru ....cos this can lead to midi latency.
the midi splitter box stops this.
useing midi splitter boxes you could literally have powertracks driving lots of xternal (picked up used..)
midi devices. lots u can find for 50 buks used or so.
if u shop pawn shops/classifieds.
now before i get to some important points....
lets conquer this idea that midi sounds cheesy.
thats cos people are useing the cheesy MS synth built into windows.
you havent heard ptw till u hook it up to a great (prolly expensive..!
multi timbral synth.)
now to my main points.....
the trik i outlined for creating bed midi tracks....
or inputting from a midi keyboard can get a bit laborious.
i'm happy with it.....but there is another alternative....
auto generatio of midi tracks includeing leads/solos and melodies n bed tracks.
(see pg's site for more info/vids etc.)
for example a lot of tools or nuendo or other sequencer users will laboriously lay down audio track after audio track to build a song. or midi also.
many hours of work..mebe days.
let me alert you to how band in a box also from pg can save you much work.
days of work in fact.
many ptw users use it. users all over the world in fact ...
studios, individuals, music teachers etc.
you can think of biab and ptw as a marriage.
heres the beauty of why many folks use ptw and biab together.
heres how it works.
you choose a song style in biab and enter chords in your song....
ie.u arrange your song...
instantly it generates the song and its midi tracks.....drums/bass/other instruments youve specified.
now heres the nice part why folks like it.
you export biab song into ptw and bam...all your settings are there.
for example synth patches/settings etc.
n ptw ready for you to add your live audio tracks like lead vocs n
lead guitar. thus biab and ptw are like a marriage in a way jay.
biab for generating the bed midi tracks and ptw for cake icing as it were.
there are many benefits to this approach.
compared to someone just useing say the laborious way with a sequencer or in tools laying down all the tracks..
you can literally have a song done in an hour if u know what your doing.
in fact some studios did quite a lot of business in the past with songwriters
who didnt want to learn about recording by bringing in say a songwriter...
for a jingle gig or song whatever...
useing biab to do the beds...then overdubbing the lead vocs in something like ptw.
the beauty of all this as most tracks are midi is a ton of control
as well as the fact i doubt youll ever need to go quadcore cos most tracks are midi tracks.
as the song will be such a full arrangement.
hope all this has helped. just try biab sometime and watch the pg videos and youll see the important benefits of band in a box.
also some time.... hear biab driving a hi quality multi timbral synth
with great sounds...youll be surprised.
and that my friend is about it for tips.
all the best. .and happy recording.
by the way listen to the biab demo of REAL DRUMS....
real studio musicians playing real drums with biab.
very interesting. might save u buying a fancy drum playing program.
consult the biab forum at pg for loads of users and oodles of tips.

ps.just shout if you dont understand somethingin powertracks.
Old 30th January 2007
  #45
Deleted 41c1fe9
Guest
well, I might not know that much about recording, but I do know this.
If you want a PC for recording... Core2Duo Baby!

AMD's won't see a performance jump till their 60nm 4 core hits the shelves sometime in a few months.

Their current Athlon series is just dead slow. period.
Old 30th January 2007
  #46
Lives for gear
 

teddy..
i dont disagree that core duo 2 is performance king in the processor...
but still a lot can be accomplished with dual amd's. 64's.
go back up the thread and youll see the figures jay shows.
in one of my fav daws powertracks. the 64's arent exactly slouches.
as you can see from the actual figures.

quote from jay...."tis was FAST.... my digital cam completely missed the pitch-shift pop up...plugin set 2 ....? i clicked during processing....lol....by the time the flash went off........was done......hows that?" he is talking about the pitch shift plug in within powertracks teddy....which is the most taxing of all the plug ins.
.....thus as you can see teddy jays dual core amd 64 isnt exactly a slouch. in fact very fast....

in addition some folks need core duo 2's cos they insist on useing resource hungry plug ins. the plug ins i use are less taxing on a processor....
particularly the ones in powertracks. which you might not know about.
particularly if..like me...one doesnt run ultra huge track n plug in counts.
the acer i'm looking at right now for dual core amd is 600 buks cdn....
the core duo 2's here in canada are much much higher priced.
maybe pricing is different where you are teddy.
show me a core duo 2 system for 600 buks cdn n mebe i'll bite.
the other thing is.....many many more cores are coming....who knows how many and i'm leery of spending oodles now. reports of 50 cores in 5 years ??
also another factor is ...by running lots of midi tracks......these are not very taxing at all on a processor. also by rendering tracks finished with fx... this also helps if i'm pushed on large track counts.
as long as i can do 48 tracks thats all i ever need.
i'm doing 40 tracks with 26 real time plug ins now on a lowly single processor sempron so i know a dual 64 will easily handle 48 tracks.
if i'm pushed on the amd 64's with oodles of tracks n plug ins ..also i can also mix down to stereo tracks that are finished....say beds....
n reimport to a new session n add many many more tracks up to 48 again.
many ways to skin a song. all the best.
ps..i'm also thinking of useing raptor hard drives in the amd which will be way enough i feel performance wise.
also the HT2000 chip in the acer seems to really speed things up in addition. it seems to be a chipset developed for server level duties.
earlier dual amd 64's i dont believe had such performance chipset in
to enhance thruput. thus mebe not all dual amd's are equivalent.
Old 30th January 2007
  #47
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teddy07x


Quote:
Their current Athlon series is just dead slow. period.

??? teddy my friend..... is this statement based on fact? ... CPU cycle speeds? bias??

NO means NO teddy..... i would not like an Intel CPU nor a T-Shirt !!!!! .hehehe


In fairness.... AMD has always had the edge...IMHO.... where it matters.... Architecture!! Teddy Intel only recently has caughten up with AMD system bus wise.... AMDs direct connect is a blessing... and they've always been the better brand OCing wise.... AMDs dont run as hot !!! P4 prescotts anyone??

To each their own..... .... but i have no complaints what so ever about the dual-core AMDs..... as Manning quoted..... TIS very fast NDEED....


cheers
Old 30th January 2007
  #48
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tuRnitUpsuM's Avatar
 

Mr Manning.....heh


with the dual..... tracks load up so quickly......ah hmmmm Teddy!.......


seriously though... they really do..... i click....i see/hear..... that simple really....


Quote:
now heres a GOT YA....never daisy chain midi sound generating devices..
via midi thru ....cos this can lead to midi latency.
we talking extremely noticable latency?? Manning..... or work-around sort?? very curious about this one.... i have Midi IN OUT and Thru on the Roland.... and pondered using the Thru for another down-the-line sound module.....

biab......... having a look into this..... as well as all else you've graciously open me eyes too.....

heres that link to the sample.....ive uploaded the link here on slutz..... i got the ok to post the sample from the originater....

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/101362-big-shootout-pacifica-737-la-610-r121-jz2-etc.html

last page..... one of last posts....

cheers
Old 30th January 2007
  #49
Lives for gear
 

jay..
cheers..i figured tracks would load up fast...in powertracks.
on the midi thru latency i recommend u google to hear some of the probs...
ie..not just from me....or run tests.

a splitter box with midi in....splitting off via midiouts to the sound modules
midi ins seriously is a way better thing to do.
the splitter boxes are very cheap. some midi interfaces come with multiple midi outs.
to connect to midiins of the sound modules.

re..the wav file u posted in other link..v sorry but.. i couldnt find it.
yourfilelink.com jay is better imho.....really easy for anyone to download
any audio file u put up. could uput it up at yourfilelink ??
so i can have a listen ??
cheers...and yes..i agree...the amd duals arent exactly slouches ...
particularly if matched with hi performance memory n hard drives.
all the best.
ps..dont forget to explore midimon in powertracks...
it can be very usefull in sorting midi....as well as the event editor.
i also forgot to mention...some arrangers use ptw's notation view for printing scores for say if you bring session musicians in for example.
also..n i havent used it....but if i remember u can also print out guitar tab and
even blank staff paper for those that like to do a chopin type approach.....lol.
n work etudes out on paper. its all in the help files...i think in the print section.
all the best.
Old 30th January 2007
  #50
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Hi Manning


.... i think when crunch time comes..... i'm gonna avoid the Thru method and stick to seperate In/Outs for each device....and/or the spitter ... thumbsup cheers.

the link?? are you having trouble actually finding the link? or is the link not working correctly? i have uploaded to yourfilelink.com.....but would rather not have too many hosts involved and links all over.....if broken i will have to repost in the thread link again as well.....

am definitely going to continue exploring midmon.... that u can be ashured of.... just tough right now not getting to explore it with the Roland....working on picking up a midi interface but... because im looking at a new interface in general..... i might be able to pick one up that has midi interfacing built in.... and put the DAL back into the P4 comp....and use it for Internet duty and VSTi.... i'd only run one VSTi instance so i should be ok there.......power-wise.....


cheers Manning


thats the real trick right..... heh ...... Memory and HDDs take presidence over clock speed......and hexioctol-core CPUs.... (neat word huh?) .
Old 30th January 2007
  #51
Lives for gear
 

jay..yep haveing trouble finding the link.
re..interfaces..i'd say stay away from the usb ones n go for a pci solution.
if u got the buks maybe lynx ?? excellent convertors...
if you only need stereo in/out i would look at an esi [email protected]
its specs are v good for such low money.
http://www.esi-pro.com/viewProduct.php?pid=43&page=1
also midi i/o......its been put up against some very pricey sound cards.
of course check with ego systems..as always compatibility with your system.
i dont see why it shouldnt work......but one never knows.
apparently the famed expensive lynx beats it.....
..but some pro testers say not by much.
all the best.....
ps....popular device with a lot of powertracks folks are the maudio delta sound devices...pci. just monitor the pg forums ..particularly a long time user like myself called rharv.....i would suggest u always read his posts on the powertracks forum.....he knows evert trick inthe book as well as another long time user.....mac.
really nice people.
also youll learn a lot by going thru these faq's on powertracks (and biab) jay....
lots of topics covered. really study them cos they are very good.
http://www.pgmusic.com/techfaq.htm
and cover lots of midi and audio questions....also the tutorials..
very extensive..from simple stuff like why dont my midi work...lol
thru to more advanced. for newbies n experienced alike.
a very extensive knowledge base also built up over years.
Old 3rd February 2007
  #52
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Hi Manning

:( sry for the wait in reply....

Link:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...=101362&page=3 ... post #75

Interface - definitely considering the Lynx... gonna need more than two inputs/outputs.... thinking maybe the lynx aes card with an aurora 8 for now...and add another aurora later. (if i add the MAC.... symphony and rosetta there). I figure NO console...then two DAWs....lol...

cheers on the info about the powertrack forum and the experienced users....

will have a read for sure....

not sure if ive ever asked...but how are you getting your signals into and out of the comp Manning? .... is everything working out for you.?..drivers been solid?.. haven't felt the need for more inputs/outputs? cheers

is tough ...lol.... it seems the more and more interesting things im now putting on the to do/try/buy list.... seems the less and less time i get to allocate for doing/trying/buying them... oh the cruel tortures of life....

all the best my friend...


p.s the linked sample.... is short and basic.... but you of all might appreciate more so... if only for knowing the applications used to tweak the original recording... (powertracks DX plugs + a few other VSTs... some bought....some freeware)

cheers
Old 3rd February 2007
  #53
Lives for gear
 

jay.....
that deposit place still wont let me download your mp3.
could u use yourfilelink.com please ??

i'm envious....lol......wish i could afford those convertors ......lol.
by the way if you know any sax players would like to play on a song a mine...tell me...i need a sax solo or some other solo on my build a man up song on motagator....
all the best....
Old 6th February 2007
  #54
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Hi Manning ....


sry...... here it is

http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=278997


lol...wish i could afford them now too.... but im working on it

i'll be on the alert for a sax player.... ...i use to know someone who played but haven't spoken to them for some time now....


cheers Manning
Old 6th February 2007
  #55
Lives for gear
 

jay.....
finally....got it off YFlink.
wow..sounds really nice..that guitar.
kudos to you mate.
the powertracks suite of fx is so unknown by many sadly ....
except for us that know it.
anyway.....if you get stuck on any powertracks feature just ask.
make sure u go thru all the videos n help files that pg send u cos they are extensive. and there are all sorts of pdf's n manuals that come with it.
you might want to note also....normally updates come around the summer.
i'm sure we will see a slew of new features in the coming months.
i dont have time....but on the pg forums youll see when a new update is due cos the tekkies ask for beta testers. you could be one if you respond.
but i think its a pretty heavy response...particularly from users who have used it for years....but u have to sign some sort of conf agreement of course.
ive normally got my updates around the summer.
and normally update n send off the 29 buk fee every two years.
all the best.
Old 7th February 2007
  #56
Lives for gear
 
tuRnitUpsuM's Avatar
 

Hey Manning


cheers....


powertracks effects are a hidden gem.... ur absolutely right... those that know will definitely benefit greatly....

feel maybe i should familiarize myself more with the software before beta testing but is definitely a possible future endeavour...

been thinking lately , i might save for a mobile rig...and start recording some really unique places....maybe offer IRs to others..... ive seen some lappies go for really cheap.... 1000 for duals....but im thinking maybe they're refurbed....? looking at em anyhow....

cheers Manning.....i'll KIT

all the best my friend....

Jay
Old 7th February 2007
  #57
Lives for gear
 

re lappies....
here dual turion amd's are 799 buks NEW !!!! canadian dollars.
by the way 4 songs nearly done with my collab friend. working out well.
album out i hope by end of year....gonna be interesting.
i'll prolly have a few grey hairs by time its done.
mixture of songs, heavy rock n romantic n bit of 50's style and so on...various genres. something for all the family from granny on down to mums n dads n rokkers n young uns lol.
all the best. and make sure you really delve deeply into powertracks.
lots of triks as i said...n read the forums. i'm still learning....for example i recently heard if one has a sound device that will do it n a powerfull enough computer apparently u can record to all 48 tracks at once. most i ever heard was 16.
apparently also if a powerfull enough puter u can have loads of softsynths running on loads of tracks. peace.
Old 7th February 2007
  #58
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Hi Manning


right on.... i shouldve mentioned they had maxed RAM..... nows a great time for lappies... never have the been so good on the pocket books....

WTG on the collab stuff.... looking forward to hearing some of it...

LOL..... yeah... but the more it happens...(grey hairs)....is kinda like war scars..... hoping less and less appear as you collab more and more .

record to 48 ??? nice.... not sure ill need that many at once.... thems alot of tracks Manning.... even for a drum kit from hell.....hehe

cheers buddy
Old 11th February 2007
  #59
Lives for gear
 

jay....
just had to share this with you.
my wife got me the dual amd 64 for valentines with the HT2000 chipset in.
retailer said i had 14 days to test it out thouroughly in my studio (NICE RETAILER !!!) n return for full refund if unhappy. aint gonna happen...read rest of thread.
been testing all day. install of sound device was a breeze.
xp was pre installed.
now bear in mind i havent even installed the second drive yet.
so all stats relate to useing system drive.
1. Reaper.
i recorded 80 tracks playing back with more plugs than i would use.
cpu around 30 per cent max....i could even have recorded more tracks
if i'd wished. but 80 is way more than i would ever use.
thus my conclusion....i will not need a quad core.
now heres whats interesting....
2. Powertracks.
installed powertracks.....like rpr ..fast n flawless in blink of an eye.
recorded all 48 tracks in powertracks (ptw).....
and found something interesting. max cpu was 20 per cent on one core.
also less memory. i compared with rpr at 48 tracks....
and conclude ptw is very highly efficient.
(its useing 64 bit registers for critical mixing...n 32 bit floats.)
i was stunned by how well ptw runs on this machine ....flawless.
god knows what its going to be like with a raptor drive.
my worry bout the HT2000 chipset was needless.
3. other.
ive done the usual xp tweaks of course......plus heres something interesting.
normally on board sound chips (i'm not useing on board but thought i would chek it out...) are very noisy. interestingly enough .....enabling recording input on on board....no noise. they must have updated the on board sound chips.

all best jay...n thanks for your help re your own dual core.....
i'm mighty happy. its a speed demon. total was 600 buks includeing extended 3 yr warranty. I"M FRICKIN HAPPY !!!!!!
peace.
Old 11th February 2007
  #60
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tuRnitUpsuM's Avatar
 




Very Very Cool Manning.... really glad you're happy with your new rig.... kinda difficult expressing in words (maybe i could've been alittle better in this regard).... but experience is unto itself... just has too happen....on ones own terms... .... sounds like an excellent retailer.... btw....


Impressive numbers... the Raptors will help alil too (very aware you know this..heh )... and just goes to show everyone how quickly (maybe alittle too quickly).... the puter industry is expanding.... duals can serve purpose for most people for yrs yet.... (now if they'll only get the devs up to speed about utilising 64-bit addressed memory better....instead of clock-speed/multi multi-core). Although i am a sucker for tech as you are too...doesnt hurt talkin bout it though huh....Quads and such.

Great stuff my friend..... now alls ya gotta do is fill them tracks up with some good stuff and smile.... cus ur set for the time being.... heh .

oh... and yeppers....on-board sound chips have vastly improved.... ( Trickle Down Effect) ...although wise in utilising something alittle more application specific... (although when the DAL hiccupped....my own doing it turned out...go figure... heh ....on-board didnt have me frowning too too much....

cheers Manning.......

p.s hope the misses is getting/gotten a much much bigger box o'chocolates this year. heh ...she deserves 'em.
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