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Acustica audio acqua plugins general discussion
Old 2nd March 2019
  #16291
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Will The Weirdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 36936 View Post
Reaper and MS Windows as the lowest common denominator is what you said.

I don't think you are part of AA but if you are it looks very bad, Sir. If you are part of AA you can just say - yes we can work on it. If not I don't see reason to discuss it - you are not decision maker. AA can be improved this is not reason to argue, no?
I NEVER wrote that, that is what you wanted to read......

As I've written 3 times now, Reaper is CROSS PLATFORM, tiny, can be freely downloaded, so it's EASILY ACCESSIBLE by most everyone, and thus became the Standardized DAW we Acqua Nebula users to post performance info about. AA had zero to do with Reaper becoming the DAW we users use to compare performance.

FWIW, I'm not a part of AA, I'm a multi-platinum Engineer/Producer with over 25 years experience. I've been a beta tester of AA products for the past 2 years after being an AA customer since 2008. My DAW's of preference are Studio One, PARIS or PTHD.
Old 2nd March 2019
  #16292
Gear Addict
 

. .
Old 2nd March 2019
  #16293
Lives for gear
 
Will The Weirdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 36936 View Post
I understand you are on the Engineer/Producer side. So software issues could be a little different for your experience. I am talking about pure software issues which should be addressed from AA. You as beta tester I suppose have limited experience because you field of expertise is different and you should not discuss about broader issues.

That said - peace -
Again, we were discussing REAPER being the benchmark DAW we've use on Mac and PC for years, your inability to stay on topic is kinda amazing, lol. I'm fully capable of discussing why a DAW became the standardized tool we use to compare performance.

That said - Ignore earned.
Old 2nd March 2019
  #16294
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. .
Old 2nd March 2019
  #16295
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Will The Weirdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteDal View Post
A side note, just to set the record straight...

Let's not forget that Reaper isn't free, actually.
In their generous commercial scheme, Cockos ask to pay for the license within 30 days. The price depends on the turnover of your musical activity.

The fact that Reaper is still fully functional after those 30 days (except for a nag screen at boot time) doesn't change the fact that it's not at all free.

That said, IMHO Cockos deserve any single cent they're asking for.
Yes you are correct, it's not free but it is freely available to all, I should have been clearer in my word usage.
Old 2nd March 2019
  #16296
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zaphod's Avatar
About cpu load, it is extremely daw specific, and deeply connected to the way they handle threads, thread polls and so on.
We see the same cpu and daw is performing in the same way both on Windows and Mac. In several cases AU is even performing better than VST, and they are exactly the same plugin (AU is even wrapped!). So it is very daw dependant.
Old 2nd March 2019
  #16297
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
About cpu load, it is extremely daw specific, and deeply connected to the way they handle threads, thread polls and so on.
We see the same cpu and daw is performing in the same way both on Windows and Mac. In several cases AU is even performing better than VST, and they are exactly the same plugin (AU is even wrapped!). So it is very daw dependant.
Hi @ zaphod thank you for the constructive explanation!

You should look more about AU specifics because a lot of DAWs now can use both AU and VST. For example Harrison MixBus32C can use both, Reaper too. When I use Harrison MixBus32C I was experimenting what is better to use AU or VST and mentioned AU is more flexible too beside being more CPU efficient. There are some enhancements in the I/O routing for which I am also interested and Harrison MixBus32C has when you use AU. One other area of optimization you can take a look at - Harrison MicBus32C is good also because it allocates some resources to be ready for use. That way the audio does not stutter when you are playing back or recording because in this most critical phase it doesn't draw more CPU for the plugin. You can look at this idea.

I believe AU being OS X specific and based on CoreAudio is why it is performing better on the Mac platform. That is what I was talking about going deeper platform specific. I researched and a lot of plugin developers are using Apple Xcode for developing AU. They don't use wrappers. You can take a look at this.
Old 2nd March 2019
  #16298
Gear Maniac
 
Ted brenn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 36936 View Post
You can try Gold2. Neve emulation, adds specific 60-70s color if you are after this kind of sound. Also Ultramarine 3.

I see you have a good Mac. you can share your experience about performance.

Indeed, on my cylinder Mac pro 12 Cores (Late 2013) I run Reaper with 2048 Buffer size when mixing. (Before launching Reaper, I must turn off Multi-threading to increase the CPU performances and load 30% more AA plugins)

i can load 26 GOLD 2 for 86% CPU Usage. (or 42 Honey or Green)
Old 2nd March 2019
  #16299
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted brenn View Post
Indeed, on my cylinder Mac pro 12 Cores (Late 2013) I run Reaper with 2048 Buffer size when mixing. (Before launching Reaper, I must turn off Multi-threading to increase the CPU performances and load 30% more AA plugins)

i can load 26 GOLD 2 for 86% CPU Usage. (or 42 Honey or Green)
With Reaper and only 1 Gold2 I got 20% CPU hit and the audio stutters - the worst performance compared with the other DAWs I use.

For Logic Pro X 10 , Steinberg Cubase 10, Harrison MixBus32C-5 - turning off hardware Muti-treading makes the things worse.

How much you paid for this Mac?
Old 2nd March 2019
  #16300
Gear Maniac
 
Ted brenn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 36936 View Post
With Reaper and only 1 Gold2 I got 20% CPU hit and the audio stutters
Something must be wrong ! I left Logic for Reaper because the better performances.
With 20% CPU, the audio can not stutter, expected if the Preference-Audio-device: Request block size , is too small. In my case I always choose 2048 for mixing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 36936 View Post
For Logic Pro X 10 , Steinberg Cubase 10, Harrison MixBus32C-5 - turning off hardware Muti-treading makes the things worse.

How much you paid for this Mac?
Indeed, Logic X and others NEED multi-threading, otherwise they go wrong.

And about the price, I bought it in 2013 around 8000 Euros
Old 2nd March 2019
  #16301
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jfjer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 36936 View Post
With Reaper and only 1 Gold2 I got 20% CPU hit and the audio stutters - the worst performance compared with the other DAWs I use.

For Logic Pro X 10 , Steinberg Cubase 10, Harrison MixBus32C-5 - turning off hardware Muti-treading makes the things worse.

How much you paid for this Mac?
Out of curiosity what Mac are you using and what sample rate ?
Old 2nd March 2019
  #16302
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted brenn View Post
Something must be wrong ! I left Logic for Reaper because the better performances.
With 20% CPU, the audio can not stutter, expected if the Preference-Audio-device: Request block size , is too small. In my case I always 2048 for mixing.

Indeed, Logic X and others NEED multi-threading, otherwise they go wrong.

And about the price, I bought it in 2013 around 8000 Euros
>Something must be wrong ! I left Logic for Reaper because the better performances.
The problem is Reaper does not fit my workflow. It looks like it first was developed for MS Windows. It has overwhelming UI.

Do you tried 64-bit float/96kHz?

With my case - 20% CPU/2048 as reported from Reaper - and it stutters.

About multithreading - yes - this is the normal way because the DAWs should some other things shuffling them between threads.

I see you paid ~$10,000. That is what I thought. Looks like a dedicated computer especially for this. But this is a bit extreme.
Old 2nd March 2019
  #16303
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. .
Old 2nd March 2019
  #16304
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zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 36936 View Post
Hi @ zaphod thank you for the constructive explanation!

You should look more about AU specifics because a lot of DAWs now can use both AU and VST. For example Harrison MixBus32C can use both, Reaper too. When I use Harrison MixBus32C I was experimenting what is better to use AU or VST and mentioned AU is more flexible too beside being more CPU efficient. There are some enhancements in the I/O routing for which I am also interested and Harrison MixBus32C has when you use AU. One other area of optimization you can take a look at - Harrison MicBus32C is good also because it allocates some resources to be ready for use. That way the audio does not stutter when you are playing back or recording because in this most critical phase it doesn't draw more CPU for the plugin. You can look at this idea.

I believe AU being OS X specific and based on CoreAudio is why it is performing better on the Mac platform. That is what I was talking about going deeper platform specific. I researched and a lot of plugin developers are using Apple Xcode for developing AU. They don't use wrappers. You can take a look at this.
Our wrapper is still native xcode, we wrote it.
Anyway it is an additional layer, because it translates vst to au. That impact of it is negligible in all our assessments, but it is interesting the additional layer version is "better".
All we know, we have a very process intensive plugin (and obviously not because the au layer) Also lately the response time is pretty constant, especially latest core 13 plugins. For example a compressor without preamp is perfectly replying to the host, same exact process time each time. No additional threads. Still the behavior of several hosts is varying largely.
I see several ones are simply handling threads, workers and allocation strategies in better ways. There is very little we can do. Such problems will arise only if there is a cpu intensive plugin, not otherwise. Ie you have a busy core and you allocate an other process on it, maybe waiting for a result before sending to other instances / so blocking other workers.
Old 2nd March 2019
  #16305
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
Our wrapper is still native xcode, we wrote it.
Anyway it is an additional layer, because it translates vst to au. That impact of it is negligible in all our assessments, but it is interesting the additional layer version is "better".
All we know, we have a very process intensive plugin. Also lately the response time is pretty constant, especially latest core 13 plugins. For example a compressor without preamp is perfectly replying to the host, same exact process time each time. No additional threads. Still the behavior of several hosts is varying largely.
I see several ones are simply handling threads, workers and allocation strategies in better ways. There is very little we can do. Such problems will arise only if there is a cpu intensive plugin, not otherwise. Ie you have a busy core and you allocate an other process on it, maybe waiting for a result before sending to other instances / so blocking other workers.
I appreciate the detailed explanation.

> For example a compressor without preamp is perfectly replying to the host, same exact process time each time. No additional threads.
This is important - constant and stable resource usage. Thank you for understanding.

> I see several ones are simply handling threads, workers and allocation strategies in better ways. There is very little we can do.
I understand you do what you can.

I am sure you would continue to improve the experience. So basically you recommend on OS X when possible to use AU?

What about you to look at disabling the plugin when not in use? To not consume CPU when disabled? It would solve a lot of issues.
Old 3rd March 2019
  #16306
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zaphod's Avatar
We optimize, and optimize and optimize.
A never-ending task.
Anyway it is not a secret we can open as hell lot of instances on a relatively new cpu.
We can open literally hundreds of diamond color eq on i9 processors. So at a point the optimization is important, but there should be an investment also on the other side, especially when you are replacing hardware which costs several magnitudes more than the cpu we are speaking about.
Don't get me wrong, we'll do always the best we can, and actually we are doing it, just look at updates/upgrades we are uploading.
Old 3rd March 2019
  #16307
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
We optimize, and optimize and optimize.
A never-ending task.
Anyway it is not a secret we can open as hell lot of instances on a relatively new cpu.
We can open literally hundreds of diamond color eq on i9 processors. So at a point the optimization is important, but there should be an investment also on the other side, especially when you are replacing hardware which costs several magnitudes more than the cpu we are speaking about.
Don't get me wrong, we'll do always the best we can, and actually we are doing it, just look at updates/upgrades we are uploading.
I really appreciate you work. Thank you.

i7 CPU I have is good too.

Are there something specific for Gold2 with which I have not so good experience performance wise. I suppose CORE 13 version of it will improve the performance. Any plans for it? With the other AA plugins I'm fine.
Old 3rd March 2019
  #16308
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by 36936 View Post
CROSS PLATFORM, tiny, can be freely downloaded
If you don't understand the irony better not discuss about that. The point of a real benchmark is the software to work good in the hardest conditions. If it works good that way, when you have better conditions like better computer or faster DAW it should be just very good.

What to say more? I am being polite. No peace? I am fine.
The definition of the word, "benchmark" is simply, a point of reference. Any DAW could be used as a benchmark regarding plugins but as has been suggested, Reaper is most commonly used as it's available to everyone for free, if only for a limited time. It's also the most efficient, which is good to know if someone wants to use more Aquas than they can load on other DAWS.
Old 3rd March 2019
  #16309
Gear Addict
 

. .
Old 3rd March 2019
  #16310
Gear Addict
 

Is any of the Nebula stuff any good? I don't see anyone talking about it anywhere and I don't really understand it.
Old 3rd March 2019
  #16311
Gear Addict
 

Is it commonly accept that the Acustica website is possibly the worst in history?
Old 3rd March 2019
  #16312
Gear Addict
 

. .
Old 3rd March 2019
  #16313
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zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 36936 View Post
I really appreciate you work. Thank you.

i7 CPU I have is good too.

Are there something specific for Gold2 with which I have not so good experience performance wise. I suppose CORE 13 version of it will improve the performance. Any plans for it? With the other AA plugins I'm fine.
Gold 3 will be light
Old 3rd March 2019
  #16314
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
Gold 3 will be light
This would be a relief - could you please put in a coded message when?
Old 3rd March 2019
  #16315
Lives for gear
 
zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mxbf View Post
Is it commonly accept that the Acustica website is possibly the worst in history?
On next months we'll remove completely trial versions from our website and everything will be very clean. Trial versions will be featured on aquarius only.
Also aquarius is replacing our website progressively. Today the navigation there is way faster
Old 3rd March 2019
  #16316
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Arionas's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 36936 View Post

What about you to look at disabling the plugin when not in use? To not consume CPU when disabled? It would solve a lot of issues.
But at least in Reaper this is what happens when you disable a AA plugin.
The same in PT. In logic I haven't tested.
Tomorrow I will check Mixbus 32C.
I'm trying to say.. maybe this has to do with the daw and not AA?
Old 3rd March 2019
  #16317
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by mxbf View Post
Is any of the Nebula stuff any good? I don't see anyone talking about it anywhere and I don't really understand it.
You'll find plenty of info here. And yes, it's amazing stuff:
Nebula must have
Old 3rd March 2019
  #16318
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arionas View Post
But at least in Reaper this is what happens when you disable a AA plugin.
The same in PT. In logic I haven't tested.
Tomorrow I will check Mixbus 32C.
I'm trying to say.. maybe this has to do with the daw and not AA?
On OS X?

I contacted Harrison MixBus developers about that and they responded MixBus is disabling it but it depends from the plugin.
Old 3rd March 2019
  #16319
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cinematree View Post
You'll find plenty of info here. And yes, it's amazing stuff:
Nebula must have
thanks
Old 3rd March 2019
  #16320
Lives for gear
 
Will The Weirdo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mxbf View Post
Is any of the Nebula stuff any good? I don't see anyone talking about it anywhere and I don't really understand it.
Everything Nebula is discussed on the Nebula thread, search is your friend.

Edit: @ cinematree thanks for the quick link.
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