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Windows 10 is rolling out... share your experiences here
Old 14th March 2019
  #6871
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Scoox's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pictus View Post
Your Windows installation is bugged, I would do a new system installation from scratch...
Better...
Get Download – NTLite and create an updated Windows installation ISO.
I think it was you that mentioned NTLite before and I added looking into it to my to-do list, but I haven't got around to it yet. I've just skimmed through the product overview and it seems very promising. Just a couple of questions:
  • If I remove something like Cortana, will Windows Update try to re-install it?
  • Can it "break" Windows if too much functionality is removed?
  • Will the ISO work on any system or just on the system that it was tailored for?
  • What's the advantage of NTLite vs regular partition imaging?
Old 14th March 2019
  #6872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey Specter View Post
YAY :(

Warning: Windows Update Breaks Connectivity of Certain NI Hardware Devices
Symptom
After installing a Windows Update, the following devices are no longer recognized:

TRAKTOR KONTROL S4 MK2
MASCHINE STUDIO
KOMPLETE KONTROL S-Series MK1 (all models)
Cause
The Windows Updates from February 2019 block certain NI hardware devices from being recognized.

Solution
We are currently investigating the issue. In the meantime, uninstalling the Windows Updates will restore functionality of the affected devices.


Warning: Windows Update Breaks Connectivity of Certain NI Hardware Devices – Native Instruments

FYI. We are already looking into this with them.

Pete
The KBs that went out this Tuesday, for Windows 7 -> Windows 10, fix this HID driver issue.

Windows 10:
RS5: March 12, 2019—KB4489899 (OS Build 17763.379)
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4489899

RS4: March 12, 2019—KB4489868 (OS Build 17134.648)
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4489868

RS3: March 12, 2019—KB4489886 (OS Build 16299.1029)
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4489886

Others
Windows 8.1 and Windows Server 2012 R2 update history
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4009470

Windows Server 2012 update history
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4009471

Windows 7 SP1 and Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1 update history
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4009469

Windows Server 2008 SP2 update history
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4343218

Pete
Old 14th March 2019
  #6873
Cool, I shall plug my Maschine back in again

To be honest I don't think I missed it a much as I thought I would.
Old 14th March 2019
  #6874
Lives for gear
 
Pictus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoox View Post
I think it was you that mentioned NTLite before and I added looking into it to my to-do list, but I haven't got around to it yet. I've just skimmed through the product overview and it seems very promising. Just a couple of questions:
[*]If I remove something like Cortana, will Windows Update try to re-install it?
Cortana, no.
Some stuff you remove may not permit Windows cumulative update to
work, it is mainly the "Components and Service" parts that are more problematic.

Quote:
[*]Can it "break" Windows if too much functionality is removed?
Yes
Quote:
[*]Will the ISO work on any system or just on the system that it was tailored for?
Any system.
Quote:
[*]What's the advantage of NTLite vs regular partition imaging?
NTLite does not manage partitions or create operational system image
backups, but installation images.
Old 14th March 2019
  #6875
Windows updates are a hot topic here. Now there’s a rumor from a usually well informed source that Win 10 Home users will get greater control over them: It looks like Windows 10 Home can now defer updates for 35 days | Ars Technica

Seems good for a home producer like me. Is it anything that GS’s favourite Microsoft employee can comment on?
Old 14th March 2019
  #6876
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedberg View Post
Windows updates are a hot topic here. Now there’s a rumor from a usually well informed source that Win 10 Home users will get greater control over them: It looks like Windows 10 Home can now defer updates for 35 days | Ars Technica

Seems good for a home producer like me. Is it anything that GS’s favourite Microsoft employee can comment on?
That is not greater control, it just shifts all updates to an installation time of max 35 days after release. The only advantage is that faulty releases may be withdrawn before they hit your system. However, your normal experience will be the same, Windows updating when it hits the non-active time.
Old 14th March 2019
  #6877
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
That is not greater control, it just shifts all updates to an installation time of max 35 days after release. The only advantage is that faulty releases may be withdrawn before they hit your system. However, your normal experience will be the same, Windows updating when it hits the non-active time.
Hmmm.... I disagree somewhat. It would provide a better way to schedule updates to times when potential problems have less impact.
Old 15th March 2019
  #6878
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedberg View Post
Hmmm.... I disagree somewhat. It would provide a better way to schedule updates to times when potential problems have less impact.
That is more or less what I said, but I wouldn't name it better control. It just puts an installation offset in which allows avoiding faulty updates. You still have no control when exactly it starts updating. If you work at 11 PM, it will probably still start updating in the background and you cannot stop it.
Old 15th March 2019
  #6879
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
That is more or less what I said, but I wouldn't name it better control. It just puts an installation offset in which allows avoiding faulty updates. You still have no control when exactly it starts updating. If you work at 11 PM, it will probably still start updating in the background and you cannot stop it.
In Pro, you can set Windows to always prompt you before restarting to update, and you can schedule a specific time for the update when prompted.

I've had that turned on for a number of versions. It's super important because I work at weird and inconsistent hours.

Settings->Update->Advanced Options-> "Show a notification when your PC requires a restart to finish updating"

Not sure if Home has that; I don't use Home.

Pete
Old 15th March 2019
  #6880
Lives for gear
 
throbert's Avatar
 

Just more reasons I won't use home or pro otherwise I would still be on 7
Old 16th March 2019
  #6881
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Scoox's Avatar
Perhaps if the OS was more "modular", updates could be tailored to each user's specific needs. It seems though that Windows is a rat's nest of dependencies. For instance, Cortana—who uses this garbage and, more importantly, why can't I get rid of it if I don't need it? Why is it so essential to the OS that it won't let me disable it? Why bother creating Cortana and market it as some kind of kick-ass search function when the reality is file search in Windwos is and has always been broken? Does anyone at Microsoft seriously use Windows file search? Users should be able to check/uncheck modules at OS installation time, and the modules should be independent of each other. Furthermore, when Microsoft adds a new feature that's not critical to the OS, users should be able to opt out, or test it and be able to remove it later cleanly. Yes, cleanly, because most Microsoft products are notorious for NOT cleaning after themselves when uninstalled e.g. after uninstalling Office you will find your C: partition and registry are littered with office mess all over the place. Finally, stop force-feeding useless garbage like Candy Crush Saga which clearly should be an optional thing that users download AFTER installing a lean OS. Stop making simple things so damn complicated, things like Calculator.exe failing to start. This program should be a simple executable that works every time. Why does mine not work? I ended up downloading a third-party freeware calculator that's actually a lot better than Microsoft's calculator and is a portable app, as it should be for such a simple program. Little things like this really make you wonder why a multi-billion dollar company can't do a better job. Stop forcing features on users for your own benefit, such as the app store. I don't need the app store. I don't like UWPs, they suck. The built-in image viewer sucks, so dose the built-in media player. Basically, my use of Windows is as a platform to run third-party software, I honestly couldn't care less for any of the bundled software because it's all garbage. So, basically, make the OS more modular.

Once the modular approach has been embraced, install updates only for the features the user has enabled. I believe all updates are important as long as the feature they pertain to is enabled. If the user enables Cortana, then all updates related to Cortana should be installed, not just some, which is likely to break things.

I know there are shared dlls and stuff but storage ain't that expensive these days, duplicate stuff if needed, just keep it all independent so things don't break when one feature is removed.

Last edited by Scoox; 16th March 2019 at 03:54 PM..
Old 16th March 2019
  #6882
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoox View Post
Perhaps if the OS was more "modular", updates could be tailored to each user's specific needs. It seems though that Windows is a rat's nest of dependencies. For instance, Cortana—who uses this garbage and, more importantly, why can't I get rid of it if I don't need it? Why is it so essential to the OS that it won't let me disable it? Why bother creating Cortana and market it as some kind of kick-ass search function when the reality is file search in Windwos is and has always been broken? Does anyone at Microsoft seriously use Windows file search? Users should be able to check/uncheck modules at OS installation time, and the modules should be independent of each other. Furthermore, when Microsoft adds a new feature that's not critical to the OS, users should be able to opt out, or test it and be able to remove it later cleanly. Yes, cleanly, because most Microsoft products are notorious for NOT cleaning after themselves when uninstalled e.g. after uninstalling Office you will find your C: partition and registry are littered with office mess all over the place. Finally, stop force-feeding useless garbage like Candy Crush Saga which clearly should be an optional thing that users download AFTER installing a lean OS. Stop making simple things so damn complicated, things like Calculator.exe failing to start. This program should be a simple executable that works every time. Why does mine not work? I ended up downloading a third-party freeware calculator that's actually a lot better than Microsoft's calculator and is a portable app, as it should be for such a simple program. Little things like this really make you wonder why a multi-billion dollar company can't do a better job. Stop forcing features on users for your own benefit, such as the app store. I don't need the app store. I don't like UWPs, they suck. The built-in image viewer sucks, so dose the built-in media player. Basically, my use of Windows is as a platform to run third-party software, I honestly couldn't care less for any of the bundled software because it's all garbage. So, basically, make the OS more modular.

Once the modular approach has been embraced, install updates only for the features the user has enabled. I believe all updates are important as long as the feature they pertain to is enabled. If the user enables Cortana, then all updates related to Cortana should be installed, not just some, which is likely to break things.

I know there are shared dlls and stuff but storage ain't that expensive these days, duplicate stuff if needed, just keep it all independent so things don't break when one feature is removed.
Just a few notes on this. I'm not going to try to talk you out of your opinions, or provide excuses, but there are a few things that need explaining, because many of these things are counter to what people currently need to do on Windows, and when we simplify to make some of these things happen, power users like those here, aren't interested.
  • The dependencies don't quite work the way you think. You're likely more disappointed with choices Microsoft has made to get you to use certain technologies, and not plug in a third-party equivalent, or just remove it. That's not a dependency issue, it's more of a policy or design issue.
  • It's true that things like the shell are more monolithic than modular, but that's also true in pretty much every other operating system. But I agree that there can be some things there that become noise for some number of users.
  • If you use Pro, it's easy to disable Cortana voice assistant. Do it through the policy editor. If you don't want to use some things in search, don't want to show the search box, etc. it's all available to turn off. I know most laptops come with Home, but folks who notice the types of things brought up here are not the Home audience; they should be running pro.
  • Breaking calculator is a new one on me, but any app can break. The dependencies for calc are pretty simple. Calculator itself is not hugely complex. (In fact, you can see the code yourself now that we've made it open source. A subset of the team I'm on actually owns this and a number of other first-party apps.) My hypothesis is you've somehow gotten your Visual C++ runtime corrupted or uninstalled, which can really ruin the experience for a lot of applications. I had this happen once (with a different app) due to an early test version of Visual Studio messing it up, but haven't otherwise run into this. It's rare, but can happen, because it's a pretty core component that most everything uses.
  • One of the biggest benefits to the Store is being able to uninstall apps cleanly. They aren't just UWP apps -- Win32 apps can be in the store. But individuals and app devs want to be able to install anything anywhere, so they aren't thrilled in the Store model. That's what leads to the reg entries, orphaned folders, etc. Some operating systems don't really give you a choice on where or how to install things, but Windows users still expect this flexibility. Some folks really dislike UWP/Store because it imposes restrictions on what apps can do, how they work etc. but it exists exactly for reasons like clean uninstall, security, scaling, reduced dependency chains, and more. Store apps exist in their own folders and can't install stuff to other locations. Where this runs into problems is when apps are also soft-dependencies for other applications. For example: a DAW that can run as a plugin in another DAW, or a DAW that installs plugins to other locations.
  • It's really our own fault for this, though. Windows has been around for a very long time. By the time we tried to force applications to install to the right locations, the cat was already out of the bag, and we couldn't/wouldn't take it far enough to make everything really clean. Combine that with historically small drives for a while, and a desire for centralized servicing of components, and there's a lot of baggage to get around.
  • Disk space/storage. Actually, this is a big concern of the engineering teams. Many laptops still come with relatively small drives, so we're always paying attention here. By a huge margin, most Windows devices in use are laptops, not desktops. That 256gb drive doesn't go far once you throw a couple games on there.
For the rest, it would be helpful to tell us (through feedback app) what you don't like about the other apps. "X sucks" is not something we can do much with. I get the overall intent/tone here, though, and do agree with some points you've made.

I'm heading out to run another event starting tomorrow. (This time of year - roughly Feb to July I'm neck-deep in a lot of things back-to-back), so if I don't reply, that's the likely reason.

Pete
Old 16th March 2019
  #6883
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
First of all, I have always felt 'program files' was pretentious and overly long while containing a space. Anybody who has need to get into it can remember the programs are in 'bin', secondly lets take a step back here and try and visualize out how much of disk hog windows is. What is it now, 30 gig--I think lots of folks could blue-pencil out the features they don't want and cut that in half, whereby it would still be incredibly large? But as pete said, the cat is out of the bag as far as the regrettably named area for binaries.
Old 18th March 2019
  #6884
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexis View Post
Hello -

I get the following error message every time I allow Dell to make updates when I boot up from being totally powered off (the changes that require putting the administrator password into the dialog window):

Windows Service Start Failure

Cannot start service from the command line or a debugger. A Windows Service must first be installed (using installutil.exe) and then started with the ServerExplorer, Windows Service Administrative tool or the NET START command.


There have been frustrating interactions with the computer, mainly with TunnelBear VPN (quite frequently can't connect, sometimes not fixed even with toggling TunnelBear and the internet connection off/on, almost always fixed instantly with a computer reboot, but still), and very slow internet (which I blamed on the router, etc.).

I wonder if the error message is something I can (continue to) ignore, vs. I wonder what will be improved if I pay attention to it (I don't know how to use istallutil.exe, or to "Start" with any of the three options listed).

And does anyone know how important it may be to say "Yes" to the Dell Updates? Clicking "More Info" to find out more about the updates really gives no useful information that I can identify as such.

Any thoughts please?

Thank you!



(W10 Home)
Solution reportedly here:
Solved: Dell Update Problems - User Account Control - Page 6 - Dell Community

Will post back if it doesn't work.

Thanks -
Old 19th March 2019
  #6885
News from the operation liberation front.

Deepin 15.9 distro although touted as slick and stable is the exact opposite on my machine. Couldn't even change display settings without buggy crash.

On to mint!
Old 19th March 2019
  #6886
Mint!

Super impressed with mint cinnamon. I've just skimmed the top of the program, but right out of the gate it is way light and lightning fast. My computer runs like a dream in mint compared to windows.

Wine installed relatively easy, minimal code into the terminal. I just cut and pasted the commands too. It launched BOTH reaper and reason from the win drive, and located the plugs. What it did not find was files and keys as expected.

Next is playing with the audio drivers and interfaces and taking a test record.

It looks really good thus far.
Old 20th March 2019
  #6887
Lives for gear
 
throbert's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sameal View Post
Super impressed with mint cinnamon. I've just skimmed the top of the program, but right out of the gate it is way light and lightning fast. My computer runs like a dream in mint compared to windows.

Wine installed relatively easy, minimal code into the terminal. I just cut and pasted the commands too. It launched BOTH reaper and reason from the win drive, and located the plugs. What it did not find was files and keys as expected.

Next is playing with the audio drivers and interfaces and taking a test record.

It looks really good thus far.
Linux is great, until I try to attach any of my devices to it let alone system components. Isn't like I can wip out any of my windows drivers and be ready tp go.
Old 20th March 2019
  #6888
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
So.... must be that nobody is interested in starting/posting to a linux experiences thread...
Old 20th March 2019
  #6889
Quote:
Originally Posted by throbert View Post
Linux is great, until I try to attach any of my devices to it let alone system components. Isn't like I can wip out any of my windows drivers and be ready tp go.
I did fight a little bit of that today. I did get jack audio to read my echo audiofire12. I just couldn't get reaper to register the audio signal. The older non 64 plugs also had some issues........which is basically all my plugs cause i never buy plugs. Their all old freeware bits.

But that whole process was way more terminal intensive. Luckily their posted all over the place.

There's one other windows thing i haven't played with in mint that may have some better results. But wine is working really well so far.

Another o.s i came across in my travels is av linux. But im heavy in mint right now. These o.s. are so light though i could fit em anywhere!

Seriously, the difference in boot/shutdown times, update install times and hard drive space is insane. It's enough for me to consider leaving my current daws for linux based daws.
Old 20th March 2019
  #6890
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
So.... must be that nobody is interested in starting/posting to a linux experiences thread...
I think i might! But it'd probably just be me ranting and raving.............like in this thread but alone. Blame this last windows update, it was the straw

It certainly wouldn't reach 230 pages on it's best day. I'd bank on that.
Old 20th March 2019
  #6891
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sameal View Post
I think i might! But it'd probably just be me ranting and raving.............like in this thread but alone. Blame this last windows update, it was the straw

It certainly wouldn't reach 230 pages on it's best day. I'd bank on that.
I like linux well enough, but until I can run motu 828es and cubase 9.5 on it, not going to work for me.
Old 20th March 2019
  #6892
Lives for gear
 
throbert's Avatar
 

Nothing for my Lynx or anything else in my sig.
Old 20th March 2019
  #6893
Lives for gear
 
popmann's Avatar
I'd argue it's bigger than that. I prefer Mixbus32c to Cubase all day for audio...which DOES run on Linux, but as I've explained to Harrison: there has NEVER...EVER been a successful first party recording system. I don't mean digital--I mean EVER...I mean that Lexicon might have made a nice specific kind of digital plate reverb...but, no one used only Lexicon reverbs--and Lexicon didn't make the multitrack, compressors, eq, mixer, etc...lots of companies try...and they FAIL, because it's a failure of idea.

So--if you think about it...to bring this back to topic...when all NI USB hardware stops working in Linux, who reaches out to them to help them fix their likely **** code? See--this is why, if you understand the above, I don't see even a roadmap to where Linux gets support enough to be useable. UNLESS--pie in the sky, Avid and Steinberg and MOTU and RME (or some collab of the 800lb gorrillas of the market) decide to ban together as some kind of association to vet a yearly or every other year distribution that runs their mature software nad hardware ranges--that would bring people and the smaller third party devs.
Old 20th March 2019
  #6894
Lives for gear
 
throbert's Avatar
 

That's pretty damn close to the way I see it. But it shouldn't be that big of a deal,
if they can come out with apple apps and drivers, it shouldn't be too hard or cost
prohibitive to do the same for Linux or what ever distro of. Seems more of an Open
Source and lack of control thing.
Old 20th March 2019
  #6895
I do have the luxury of not relying on my system as my source of income. So that opens me up to all kinds of time to tinker with crap and use whatever antiquated technology i can stitch together.

So i can see some legit complaints up above.

I made a GIANT leap in computing technology......a dual core system over to a max ram ryzen 7.......and saw little to no improvement on speed in windows on almost any front. That to me is a huge problem. Even setting aside the other huge problems with windows as of late. I HAVE to explore other options. There's no choice in my mind at this point but to make something else work however possible.

But with that, i'll take my linux baggage elsewhere!
Old 20th March 2019
  #6896
Quote:
Originally Posted by sameal View Post
I made a GIANT leap in computing technology......a dual core system over to a max ram ryzen 7.......and saw little to no improvement on speed in windows on almost any front.
With all respect - that cannot be right. I absolutely believe you had this experience, but in no way is it normal that a ryzen 7 is not clearly faster than an old dual core CPU, even if it is a different Windows version.
If that was the normal case, I would be out of a job and probably brushing off refurb Macs in a sweatshop somewhere.
Old 20th March 2019
  #6897
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
With all respect - that cannot be right. I absolutely believe you had this experience, but in no way is it normal that a ryzen 7 is not clearly faster than an old dual core CPU, even if it is a different Windows version.
If that was the normal case, I would be out of a job and probably brushing off refurb Macs in a sweatshop somewhere.
Now it may be something to do with my computer. I gave it a facelift basically and kept the old hdd's. I just sacrificed the ssd i had planned for the o.s. for the linux boot. And im sure that had something to do with speed.

However boot up times, update times and shut down times stayed roughly the same. I can't do a clean install because i lost my license apparently with the old mobo.

This last update directly afterwards i couldn't get past post, and i had to change my dumb password AGAIN for some reason. That might not be related but ive had a lot of similar issues over the course of ten.

I could investigate it and find the root issues, but it's not worth it. Im not going to rent an o.s. that someone else dictates on.
Old 20th March 2019
  #6898
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sameal View Post
Now it may be something to do with my computer. I gave it a facelift basically and kept the old hdd's...
Its I/O bound. All the action lately is in going from spinning platter to ssd--that's where the bang for the buck is. RAM upgrades--bang for the buck to the extent that your apps use it. On my system, I out together a cubase project with many instances of kontakt, and it used something like 8 gig. I have 32 gig of ram. I believe that for me 16 gig would have been enough.

CPU upgrades--not much bang for the buck--my opinion. The gains are small in core speed and the benchmark numbers are achieved by adding cores. This will only benefit you to the extent that your daw can get useful benefit from additional cores--subject of another debate. But for me, I have reluctantly concluded that my cpu is more than adequate (or conversely the new ones aren't enough of an improvement), so I cannot justify the fun task of buying a new one.
Old 20th March 2019
  #6899
Lives for gear
 
juiseman's Avatar
 

I had to roll back my 2 main Rigs from 1809 a month ago; 1803 was running good...but lately I'm getting huge CPU spikes in Studio one v4 (and v3.5) on 2 rigs with 2 different Audio interfaces (ur824 and my old Focusrite PRO24.)

I know its not hardware related; my cpu use is like less than 10%
on both rigs in windows cpu monitor; but the st1 cpu meter is spiked 100%.
tried to adjust buffer to max and tried the hybrid audio settings in ST1 also..
no luck...

When I built these rigs last spring I was able to run 3x as many plugins (vsti and EFX) as my old 4790k rigs at low latency...64 ms buffers..
now, I was having trouble with the buffer set to 4096...lol
I'm certain the problem is not studio one because I'm using the same
versions for over a year.

I see it now as there are 3 options left for me:
1. try Windows 7 again; see if all my software still works. then freeze it in time.

2. install a old stable ver. of windows 10 from 2017ish and take
the main rig off line; then build another rig just for internet/E-mail
tasks for clients and music listening.

3. turn the main rig into a hackntosh again...this will be the
most time consuming; but if I do it right; most stable with OSX High Sierra.

have a mac pro 4,1 flashed to 5,1 with 1 x5680 and osx 10.13.6.. its performing better than the 2x more powerful 8 and 10 core WIN10 rigs......lol

Hope option 1 works. that will be the cheapest; I already have a Win 7 Key..

I haven't considered Linux yet; I do like Mixbus a lot and could use that.
The issues seems to be running all the VSTi's with low lag..since they
still need to run in a wrapper of some sort...
But that would be most likely more time consuming than installing OSX since
I'm pretty well schooled in building hackntosh rigs...
Old 29th March 2019
  #6900
Lives for gear
 

I installed NTLite modified Win10 1607 to an Optane SSD on the 8700k build. The boot time is like one second. Even this OS feels old compared to more recent builds, though.

I just read that the Meltdown/Spectre patch doesn't affect Windows 10 nearly as much as Windows 7 and 8. I've been trying to avoid the patch, but I'm debating whether to just do a clean install of the latest version and call it a day. Being able to go online would be convenient, and I'd never have to worry about the FLS plugin slot limit. Has anyone installed the patch on Win10 and regretted the performance hit?
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