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Windows 10 is rolling out... share your experiences here Audio Interfaces
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6811
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
As the saying goes, all it takes to get into the journalism business is an opinion and a typewriter. This journalist has some emotional investment in the subject and is second guessing microsoft's development process. We have no way of knowing if he is just speculating, but I have had the sense that he has some whiney sources on the windows dev team--is he correct in his conclusions--there is no way of knowing. I have seen his other stuff--tends to be alarmist IMHO.

In any case, as has been pointed out, one can choose to become alarmed that some people who use a different version of windows than they do, may or may not have some impact from this change. For me, as the cops say: Keep moving folks, nothing to see here...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6812
Lives for gear
 

As to compression programs, I just looked at 7zip. I think I'll keep using winrar.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6813
Lives for gear
 

What are the advantages of something other than the native Explorer "Extract all" or "Open"?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6814
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Pictus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoodle View Post
As to compression programs, I just looked at 7zip. I think I'll keep using winrar.
Check Double Commander it got 7-zip built in and other formats.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6815
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
As the saying goes, all it takes to get into the journalism business is an opinion and a typewriter. This journalist has some emotional investment in the subject and is second guessing microsoft's development process. We have no way of knowing if he is just speculating, but I have had the sense that he has some whiney sources on the windows dev team--is he correct in his conclusions--there is no way of knowing. I have seen his other stuff--tends to be alarmist IMHO.

In any case, as has been pointed out, one can choose to become alarmed that some people who use a different version of windows than they do, may or may not have some impact from this change. For me, as the cops say: Keep moving folks, nothing to see here...
And if the forced update puts you into an endless 'update' loop, you're OK with that?

Let's say you're a single mom on a budget and bought a used gen2 i3 computer for you and your child to watch videos, do her homework, browse the internet. One day you shut down and Windows does an update, as is common. When you reboot you're confronted with what seems to be an endless install and then you get an error 'cuz it can't install on your system. What then? You find a friend who can search the endless documentation searching for the NON-specific code that was displayed? If you happen to figure out a way to delay it what happens when it's forced on you next time and goes into another endless loop but your time is up?

Your answers are what?

"Unplug"?

A: Really? How many people bought a computer to ONLY use the internet?Most? I don't know. But "****" they should know better. Right?

"Well, you never really OWNED that computer"?

A: "Your right. I should have checked the fine print. I missed the part that said MS could trash my computer and force me to buy a newer one when they felt like it. Silly me. You think a used Gen 4 would work? We can save up for it. Do you think?"

"Use Linux if you don't like it."? What?

You seem incapable of understanding the ramifications of their policy and how it can make the computer someone bought (maybe people not so fortunate as YOU) obsolete, overnight, with a single forced update. The issue here is the "FORCED" part.

Some of us (especially the neighborhood 'computer guy') think of these issues. Some of us pay out of our own pockets so that others less fortunate don't have down time so they and their children can enjoy the HARDWARE they bought. If the hardware fails, so be it. If a FORCED software update makes your hardware unusable for what you intended when you purchased it? That's immoral.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6816
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ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by onewire View Post
And if the forced update puts you into an endless 'update' loop, you're OK with that?...
What part of 'this article is not about your version of windows' do you not understand?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6817
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
What part of 'this article is not about your version of windows' do you not understand?
Is "all" an option?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6818
Folks, that article had nothing to do with the version of Windows you use. It's an article about business which today manages updates in a completely different way from the way consumers do.

For people who are concerned about updates: Use Pro. Use GPEDIT to disable updates (need a reasonably recent version for this to work as it was broken for a few versions after the anniversary update), and take responsibility for security yourself. Know that you'll miss out on other things in the future because It's all-or nothing, which is not ideal, but it works.

Pete
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6819
Quote:
Originally Posted by onewire View Post
And if the forced update puts you into an endless 'update' loop, you're OK with that?

Let's say you're a single mom on a budget and bought a used gen2 i3 computer for you and your child to watch videos, do her homework, browse the internet. One day you shut down and Windows does an update, as is common. When you reboot you're confronted with what seems to be an endless install and then you get an error 'cuz it can't install on your system. What then? You find a friend who can search the endless documentation searching for the NON-specific code that was displayed? If you happen to figure out a way to delay it what happens when it's forced on you next time and goes into another endless loop but your time is up?

Your answers are what?

"Unplug"?

A: Really? How many people bought a computer to ONLY use the internet?Most? I don't know. But "****" they should know better. Right?

"Well, you never really OWNED that computer"?

A: "Your right. I should have checked the fine print. I missed the part that said MS could trash my computer and force me to buy a newer one when they felt like it. Silly me. You think a used Gen 4 would work? We can save up for it. Do you think?"

"Use Linux if you don't like it."? What?

You seem incapable of understanding the ramifications of their policy and how it can make the computer someone bought (maybe people not so fortunate as YOU) obsolete, overnight, with a single forced update. The issue here is the "FORCED" part.

Some of us (especially the neighborhood 'computer guy') think of these issues. Some of us pay out of our own pockets so that others less fortunate don't have down time so they and their children can enjoy the HARDWARE they bought. If the hardware fails, so be it. If a FORCED software update makes your hardware unusable for what you intended when you purchased it? That's immoral.
There are at least a few versions of linux that have a gui and are slightly more user friendly. It could be a great alternative.

I'm going to be checking them out as my replacement C drive has come in. If i find anything useful out i'll report back.

But i'd bet that one of the gui versions of linux would probably do the basic functions (internet/movies/word processing) perfectly fine.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6820
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
At those times I have had need for a guest computer, I do get one of the old systems going and install ubuntu on it. No windows license fees, and they can do their internet thing to their heart's delight--firefox I think. I know ubutnu has some pretty functional office suites when it comes to writing a document, and probably a decent email client as well--and its a no brainer to install. Its come a long way since I had to use vi to edit xwindows configuration files including entering microsecond timings for video cards. And its so alien to windows that I don't have to worry about it bringing viruses.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6821
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Scoox's Avatar
OK here I go...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
Many tablet-mode/touch users hide the taskbar completely.
That's irrelevant to my complaint, since those users won't see the show desktop button anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
For mouse users, pulling the mouse to the bottom right is usually not an issue.
Then why is the Start button, which also lives in a corner, need to be so big? Granted, it's the Windows logo, which needs to be featured prominently.

Please look at the following screen capture, you can clearly see that the notifications panel button outline looks smaller than it actually use. Here, I'm clicking literally off the button, and yet the button is still getting clicked. That empty space could have been devoted to the show desktop button. The way I see this, Microsoft desperately wants users to click the notifications panel button.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
BTW, it used to be larger (even in 10, early on), but we got feedback that it was a waste of space.
I find that extremely hard to believe because when I google windows show desktop button too wide I get nothing but people complaining that it is too narrow. And on the Feedback Hub there are requests for this button to be wider. I upvoted those too, but there were very few votes. The reality is most people don't know the Feedback Hub even exists, and most people can't be bothered to send feedback on issues—they just ignore them. Only power users tend to be a bit more vocal.

I get the feeling Microsoft makes harsh decisions without asking their clients, and then undo the changes if enough people complain. Like when they got rid of the "Up" button in Explorer in W7, or the Start Menu in W8. Maybe telemetry reveals only 1% of Windows users (the power users, I expect) use Alt+Tab to switch apps and Microsoft will ditch that too, and then bring it back later.

In addition, if space-saving was such a huge concern, then how do you explain this?



Bottom image shows result with 7+ Taskbar Tweaker running (extra icon visible on the far left of the system tray). Even with the extra icon in, the system tray width is actually less than when default spacing is used.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoox View Post
...
In addition, if space-saving was such a huge concern, then how do you explain this?


Those conservative tray/notification icon spacings don't work with touch, unfortunately.

Agreed the "show desktop" button is not touch-friendly as-is.

For mouse, you drag your cursor to the bottom right. If you haven't turned that off, it works regardless. This isn't good for folks with a secondary display on the right, however.

We're not trying to force people to look at the notifications panel. Looks to me like someone put in padding instead of margin in the button. If you haven't yet logged or upvoted a bug report on the hit area of that button being too large, please do and LMK the feedback item link.

In the meantime, here are some other ways to do what you want, albeit a bit differently:

1. Right-click or tap/hold the start button and choose "desktop" from the menu.


or

2. If you're trying to easily get to content on your desktop, you can also right-click the task bar, click "toolbars" and then click "desktop"


or, and this is what I think is preferable to the others:

3. You can add a shortcut to the same "show desktop" function.

3.1: Right click the desktop and choose "new Shortcut"

3.2 for location, use this:

%windir%\explorer.exe shell:::{3080F90D-D7AD-11D9-BD98-0000947B0257}

3.3 Name it something appropriate, like "Show Desktop"

3.4 It'll have the generic file explorer icon. You can change that to something else in the shortcut properties. %systemroot%\system32\imageres.dll has a number of icons that may fit.

3.5 Right-click the created shortcut and choose "pin to taskbar".

Hope that helps.

Pete
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6823
Lives for gear
 
Scoox's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
Those conservative tray/notification icon spacings don't work with touch, unfortunately.

Agreed the "show desktop" button is not touch-friendly as-is.

For mouse, you drag your cursor to the bottom right. If you haven't turned that off, it works regardless. This isn't good for folks with a secondary display on the right, however.

We're not trying to force people to look at the notifications panel. Looks to me like someone put in padding instead of margin in the button. If you haven't yet logged or upvoted a bug report on the hit area of that button being too large, please do and LMK the feedback item link.

In the meantime, here are some other ways to do what you want, albeit a bit differently:

1. Right-click or tap/hold the start button and choose "desktop" from the menu.


or

2. If you're trying to easily get to content on your desktop, you can also right-click the task bar, click "toolbars" and then click "desktop"


or, and this is what I think is preferable to the others:

3. You can add a shortcut to the same "show desktop" function.

3.1: Right click the desktop and choose "new Shortcut"

3.2 for location, use this:

%windir%\explorer.exe shell:::{3080F90D-D7AD-11D9-BD98-0000947B0257}

3.3 Name it something appropriate, like "Show Desktop"

3.4 It'll have the generic file explorer icon. You can change that to something else in the shortcut properties. %systemroot%\system32\imageres.dll has a number of icons that may fit.

3.5 Right-click the created shortcut and choose "pin to taskbar".

Hope that helps.

Pete
I like the shortcut solution best. Hopefully these small issues will be addressed in the future. Thanks
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6824
Lives for gear
 
norbury brook's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by onewire View Post
And if the forced update puts you into an endless 'update' loop, you're OK with that?

Let's say you're a single mom on a budget and bought a used gen2 i3 computer for you and your child to watch videos, do her homework, browse the internet. One day you shut down and Windows does an update, as is common. When you reboot you're confronted with what seems to be an endless install and then you get an error 'cuz it can't install on your system. What then? You find a friend who can search the endless documentation searching for the NON-specific code that was displayed? If you happen to figure out a way to delay it what happens when it's forced on you next time and goes into another endless loop but your time is up?

Your answers are what?

"Unplug"?

A: Really? How many people bought a computer to ONLY use the internet?Most? I don't know. But "****" they should know better. Right?

"Well, you never really OWNED that computer"?

A: "Your right. I should have checked the fine print. I missed the part that said MS could trash my computer and force me to buy a newer one when they felt like it. Silly me. You think a used Gen 4 would work? We can save up for it. Do you think?"

"Use Linux if you don't like it."? What?

You seem incapable of understanding the ramifications of their policy and how it can make the computer someone bought (maybe people not so fortunate as YOU) obsolete, overnight, with a single forced update. The issue here is the "FORCED" part.

Some of us (especially the neighborhood 'computer guy') think of these issues. Some of us pay out of our own pockets so that others less fortunate don't have down time so they and their children can enjoy the HARDWARE they bought. If the hardware fails, so be it. If a FORCED software update makes your hardware unusable for what you intended when you purchased it? That's immoral.

Single mum on a budget, why wouldn't you just buy a chrome book for $200 in the first place?

end of story.

talking of obsolescence, my partner and I both have ipads that are now obsolete because they wont upgrade past OS9. They're both fully functional hardware wise but pretty much useless.


M
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6825
Quote:
Originally Posted by norbury brook View Post
talking of obsolescence, my partner and I both have ipads that are now obsolete because they wont upgrade past OS9. They're both fully functional hardware wise but pretty much useless.
Just wait, microsoft probably has a similar idea up their sleeve.

There was and may still be at the very least a browser made for abandoned apple hardware called tenfourfox based of firefox so you can at least still use it for an internet machine. It's been a long time since ive used it, but it worked good on my g5 tower..........that's collecting dust.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6826
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by sameal View Post
There are at least a few versions of linux that have a gui and are slightly more user friendly. It could be a great alternative.

I'm going to be checking them out as my replacement C drive has come in. If i find anything useful out i'll report back.

But i'd bet that one of the gui versions of linux would probably do the basic functions (internet/movies/word processing) perfectly fine.
I've been considering moving myself. That new version posted recently (can't remember the name) looks promising.

Another neighbor who inherited one of my older computers had a laptop with Linux and he never gelled with it. He's truly computer illiterate plus needs a Windows box for the RC Aircraft Sim I gave him with the computer. It's the reason he got the i5 and the Mom next door the i3. Took him forever to learn the smartphone I gave him for Christmas a few years ago.

As to the Mom. One issue may be Skype. Haven't delved into it deeply yet but she requires it for connecting with her family in Ecuador. Wonder if there's a Linux version. It'd be a pain to ask everyone else to switch apps just for her.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6827
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by norbury brook View Post
Single mum on a budget, why wouldn't you just buy a chrome book for $200 in the first place?

end of story.
Familiarity. Windows at work. Could be a possibility I suppose if the need arises.

Quote:
talking of obsolescence, my partner and I both have ipads that are now obsolete because they wont upgrade past OS9. They're both fully functional hardware wise but pretty much useless.


M
Key phrase highlighted.

One of my computers is stuck on 1709. 1803 wouldn't install and it took quite some effort for me to get it to quit trying to update. I recently tried to force the 1809 update but it was a No Go. Wondering what's going to become of it when my 1 year grace period runs out. It's a 4790K on a UHD5 mobo.

Sorry to beat a dead horse but...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6828
Quote:
Originally Posted by onewire View Post
I've been considering moving myself. That new version posted recently (can't remember the name) looks promising.

Another neighbor who inherited one of my older computers had a laptop with Linux and he never gelled with it. He's truly computer illiterate plus needs a Windows box for the RC Aircraft Sim I gave him with the computer. It's the reason he got the i5 and the Mom next door the i3. Took him forever to learn the smartphone I gave him for Christmas a few years ago.

As to the Mom. One issue may be Skype. Haven't delved into it deeply yet but she requires it for connecting with her family in Ecuador. Wonder if there's a Linux version. It'd be a pain to ask everyone else to switch apps just for her.
There may be some kind of a wrap solution for skype. Im not certain though as i never use it.

I think wine had something that worked on windows compatibility, but i have just started skimming the surface of all these things.

Wine, mint and ubuntu are on my watch list.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6829
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by sameal View Post
There may be some kind of a wrap solution for skype. Im not certain though as i never use it.

I think wine had something that worked on windows compatibility, but i have just started skimming the surface of all these things.

Wine, mint and ubuntu are on my watch list.
Found it!

This was posted here a couple of days ago. Looks interesting.

MODICIA O.S. Home - MODICIA O.S. beautiful, fast, clean and powerful
Linux OS


Hope I'm not hijacking the Win 10 thread with this. Couldn't find (haven't searched) for the other post.

EDIT: Here it is. Modicia OS pro video and audio program. Anyone familiar with this new os?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6830
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by onewire View Post
Hope I'm not hijacking the Win 10 thread with this.
You kind of are.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6831
Lives for gear
 
TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by onewire View Post
I've been considering moving myself. That new version posted recently (can't remember the name) looks promising.
Elementary OS ?

* Ooops, posted before seeing your other post , either way Elementary OS is the Linux distro I use FWIW.*

There is a native Skype version for Linux.


Last edited by TAFKAT; 4 weeks ago at 10:00 PM.. Reason: *Amended.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6832
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post
Elementary OS ?

* Ooops, posted before seeing your other post , either way Elementary OS is the Linux distro I use FWIW.*

There is a native Skype version for Linux.

Got my wife's old i3 box just sitting in the back room doing nothing. Gonna experiment.

Thanks for the Skype info. Maybe I can put a smile on the Mom's face. She was fostering a 5yr old girl for awhile that just got returned to the parents last week. She's kind of in a funk right now. Thinkin' maybe I can hook up a separate box for the TV as she doesn't actually watch 'TV' for religious reasons. Just streams and DVD. That way her daughter and her can do separate things.

I know. TMI.

One other thing. Can Linux scale well to a 720 screen?

BTW. I still haven't tried just returning to Win 8.1 as you previously suggested. Just being lazy.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6833
Lives for gear
 

Back to my zipped folder question if I could please - what do other programs (like winrar, 7-zip, etc.) bring to the table that the native Windows Explorer "Extract All" or "Open" doesn't have?

Thanks!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6834
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexis View Post
Back to my zipped folder question if I could please - what do other programs (like winrar, 7-zip, etc.) bring to the table that the native Windows Explorer "Extract All" or "Open" doesn't have?

Thanks!
Not sure, but I think 7-zip opens just about any damn thing. I've been using it for years.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6835
Lives for gear
I'm assuming this newer "lite" version of Windows probably won't have enough horsepower to run audio applications ?: Details Emerge About Microsoft's 'Lite' Operating System
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6836
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ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
I'm assuming this newer "lite" version of Windows probably won't have enough horsepower to run audio applications ?: Details Emerge About Microsoft's 'Lite' Operating System
Looks like they are going after an ipad type product space, so may not even be able to run on a regular pc. To my knowledge, there have been lite windows versions for their small devices for some years now.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6837
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
Looks like they are going after an ipad type product space, so may not even be able to run on a regular pc. To my knowledge, there have been lite windows versions for their small devices for some years now.
I used to like the lean-as-a-greyhound Win XP nLite, which was stripped down to the bare essentials of services, minus all the typical bloatware that manufacturers loaded onboard. I wonder what a Win10 nLite would be like....
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6838
Lives for gear
 
norbury brook's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
I used to like the lean-as-a-greyhound Win XP nLite, which was stripped down to the bare essentials of services, minus all the typical bloatware that manufacturers loaded onboard. I wonder what a Win10 nLite would be like....
I've been through all this over the years, I used to use the nLite OS all the time but you know what?...windows 10 just works out of the box without any tweaking, so I'm happy now to just install the OS in about 10 minutes and start work.


My DAW in the studio runs 7 days a week sometimes and just works with windows 10 pro x64. I update outside of my own office hours and have had zero issues, it's online all the time, it's now fairly old but just works reliably with all my hardware and software still.


I'm actually dreading upgrading it when the time comes as it's been a great machine hardware and software wise.


M
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6839
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
I used to like the lean-as-a-greyhound Win XP nLite, which was stripped down to the bare essentials of services, minus all the typical bloatware that manufacturers loaded onboard. I wonder what a Win10 nLite would be like....
Back in windows 95 days, I used to mess with that sort of thing and remember either nlite or a similar thing. It was fun, and I learned a bit about windows internals, but very time consuming. I recall at times stopping one to many services and something stopped working and I spent lots of time figuring that stuff out.

Windows 10 works fine for me now, and I am using a three year old cpu. Were there a stripped down windows for daw type stuff, glad to use it, but for now, I don't have the time to try to carve bloat out of it. Also, psychlist says that sort of thing is not going to make a worthwhile performance boost, and I believe him.

I spend more time typing about windows 10 in this forum than I do messing with the config and so forth. My setup works, so I can focus on the music, not the software. 20 years ago, it was the opposite.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6840
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by norbury brook View Post

talking of obsolescence, my partner and I both have ipads that are now obsolete because they wont upgrade past OS9. They're both fully functional hardware wise but pretty much useless.


M
How old are these ipads?
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