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Windows 10 is rolling out... share your experiences here
Old 3 days ago
  #6151
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Synthbuilder's Avatar
Patch Tuesday's KB4284835 works fine on my laptop but caused my somewhat ageing i5 big box PC to shut down very very slowly and stopped my network 'card' from working. Whether the two issues are related I'm not sure. Uninstalling said update makes the PC work again.

Tony
Old 3 days ago
  #6152
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TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
Its been fully explained. This is an internal microsoft identifier and microsoft has advised third party software vendors not to use it in their copy protection schemes as it can change during the life of the computer.
I know what it is, I don't need you to dictate or detail it. You are missing the point I made that it isn't anything close to the same as the past as Pete inferred.

As to the rest , where did I mention anything regards MS needing to pander to developers or otherwise, get off the soap box and save your apologetics.
Old 3 days ago
  #6153
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ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post
I know what it is, I don't need you to dictate or detail it. You are missing the point I made that it isn't anything close to the same as the past as Pete inferred.

As to the rest , where did I mention anything regards MS needing to pander to developers or otherwise, get off the soap box and save your apologetics.
Just pointing out that your incessant harping on this is getting tiresome. Get off your own soap box!
Old 2 days ago
  #6154
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post
I know what it is, I don't need you to dictate or detail it. You are missing the point I made that it isn't anything close to the same as the past as Pete inferred.

As to the rest , where did I mention anything regards MS needing to pander to developers or otherwise, get off the soap box and save your apologetics.
My point was that it works the same, but it's more of an issue for people now because of the twice yearly updates.

But it's functionally the same, and our advice not to use it as a persistent ID is still the same.

Advertising ID, like I said, is a standard way to provide advertisers what they want, but let users remain in control. Prior to that, they were doing all sorts of things that were not good privacy practices, and were not easily controlled by the user. There's a lot of FUD out there about advertising ID, but it's mostly borne of ignorance about what it is, and why Apple, Microsoft, and Google have standardized on the approach. We introduced it in Windows 8 or 8.1. I forget which.

In the end, on Windows, the Advertising ID really only impacts people using Store apps. Anecdotally, this community is not a heavy user of store apps, at least not specifically for music creation. If you have an iPhone, iPad, or Android device, however, knowing how the ad id works and what it's used for can be useful knowledge.

Pete
Old 5 hours ago
  #6155
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TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
My point was that it works the same, but it's more of an issue for people now because of the twice yearly updates.

But it's functionally the same, and our advice not to use it as a persistent ID is still the same.
We are going around in circles !

If its an easy and simple alteration, why haven't the developers done it previously ?

If the request was made back at W7/W8, obviously the software developers didn't place it on a high priority, and why would they when it lasted the life of the deployment !

So what is the alternative for the software developers to be able to copy protect their software via a system algorithm over a hardware device , like iLok/elicenser. Which btw W10 randomly breaks as well.

Waves NIC algo has already been mentioned, which is also a PITA and can be easily tripped by simply adding a secondary NIC (WiFi USB dongle to momentarily connect if need be ) , let alone a motherboard change if you have a failure. Some iLok licenses are also sensitive to changes with NIC's.

Quote:
There's a lot of FUD out there about advertising ID, but it's mostly borne of ignorance about what it is, and why Apple, Microsoft, and Google have standardized on the approach. We introduced it in Windows 8 or 8.1. I forget which.
Sure, the trick is to filter the wheat from the chaff, of course Apple, Google and MS always have end users best interest at heart when introducing policy.

Quote:
If you have an iPhone, iPad, or Android device, however, knowing how the ad id works and what it's used for can be useful knowledge.
The most useful knowledge for many is to learn how to disable it , no matter what platform.

Old 4 hours ago
  #6156
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post
We are going around in circles !
Not really. I agreed with you that frequency of change is why folks are noticing it (and being inconvenienced by it) now, and explained the technical reason it's actually the same behavior as before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post
If its an easy and simple alteration, why haven't the developers done it previously ?
No one wants to change how their software works. Even if you tell developers that "hey, this is going to break at some point, stop using it", they'll ignore you until too late. Example: Apple telling developers for the better part of a decade to stop using QuickTime. It was only when they (temporarily) made it impossible to install on Windows that developers finally changed it.

We've had to do some painful things in Windows over the years as well. You tell developers for 5 years that you're going to change X but they don't change their software. Finally, you change X and then folks flip because their software no longer works correctly. Makes it super hard to move forward.

Anyway, software changes cost money. No one bothers until they absolutely have to. Another great example for us older folks is Y2K. There was PLENTY of warning (it was a fixed point in time!), yet folks were scrambling up until midnight that night to get the fixes in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post
If the request was made back at W7/W8, obviously the software developers didn't place it on a high priority, and why would they when it lasted the life of the deployment !

So what is the alternative for the software developers to be able to copy protect their software via a system algorithm over a hardware device , like iLok/elicenser. Which btw W10 randomly breaks as well.

Waves NIC algo has already been mentioned, which is also a PITA and can be easily tripped by simply adding a secondary NIC (WiFi USB dongle to momentarily connect if need be ) , let alone a motherboard change if you have a failure. Some iLok licenses are also sensitive to changes with NIC's.

IIRC, this is why those copy protection devices/schemes break.

What should they use? Difficult to make a recommendation as you don't want a persistent way to identify a user/machine. Again, privacy consideration. So I don't have an answer there other than to stop using this type of copy protection.

Since the beginning of software, copy protection has always been a pain. I remember on the C64 when they used to write to the out-of-range sectors on disks, and then would slam the drive head over (causing 1541 misalignments over time) to check that sector when the application loaded up. For those developers, it was more important to avoid pirating than it was to ensure they didn't screw up your expensive disk drive.

Or how about that CD/DVD (Celine Dione, IIRC) that would screw up your PC because they installed a rootkit on it for copy protection.

I'm of the personal opinion that copy protection does no one any good. The big pirates always get around it and post the stuff online anyway. I get what companies want to do it, but it's a losing battle that seems to only hurt legit users.

Dongles are annoying, but they're actually a pretty good approach. If it's there, you're good. If it's not, you're not. It's when you move from the hardware lock to a software one, or the hardware one is also tied to a machine instead of floating, that it gets messy.

Pete
Old 2 hours ago
  #6157
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TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
What should they use? Difficult to make a recommendation as you don't want a persistent way to identify a user/machine. Again, privacy consideration. So I don't have an answer there other than to stop using this type of copy protection.
Its a catch 22 tho Pete , some moved and/or are moving from hardware devices like iLok to system ID because end users made it pretty clear they didn't like the established hardware protection ( especially after that iLok meltdown a few years ago ), and are now scrambling again due this recent change with W10.

Quote:
I'm of the personal opinion that copy protection does no one any good. The big pirates always get around it and post the stuff online anyway. I get what companies want to do it, but it's a losing battle that seems to only hurt legit users.
Yep, but imagine the landscape if there was none in place at all.

Quote:
Dongles are annoying, but they're actually a pretty good approach. If it's there, you're good. If it's not, you're not. It's when you move from the hardware lock to a software one, or the hardware one is also tied to a machine instead of floating, that it gets messy.
Only if the hardware dongle doesn't fault , and when it does, more minefields. I have had multiple iLoks fail over the years, touch wood no eLicensers as yet. I still prefer system locked software, with multiple licenses ( in case of system failures and/or fair use ) , but then we are back to point 1.

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