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Windows 10 is rolling out... share your experiences here
Old 13th March 2018
  #5581
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Being a developer at heart, I love under the hood tuning more than features, so looking forward to the next release. Too faint hearted for insider builds these days, but to show how old I am, I did participate in the windows 95 beta program...
Old 13th March 2018
  #5582
Gear Addict
 

Thanks for getting back to us,
Pete, and answering some of our questions. Appreciate you being here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
The improvement was pretty significant in terms of effort, so it's RS4+ only.
So, just to be clear, does this mean it will be available as a Feature upgrade only, for users that download 1803, and not as a Quality update for people on older builds like 1607?
Old 14th March 2018
  #5583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skap View Post
Thanks for getting back to us,
Pete, and answering some of our questions. Appreciate you being here.
Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skap View Post
So, just to be clear, does this mean it will be available as a Feature upgrade only, for users that download 1803, and not as a Quality update for people on older builds like 1607?
Correct. It can't be reasonably backported to older versions, so it will appear in 1803 (assuming no critical bug found before release).

Pete
Old 14th March 2018
  #5584
Gear Addict
 

Thank you for your clarification, Pete.
Old 15th March 2018
  #5585
Lives for gear
 
wakestyle's Avatar
Fairly curious as what is the issue with certain window behavior in some applications, and whether or not it's the application in question or a Windows issue.
Often 'Open' or 'Save' location windows open they are not placed properly within the screen area, usually dropping out of view on the bottom.

examples
Cubase - 'Backup project'
Kontakt - 'Batch Resave'

are just two examples which illustrate this, at least here.
Any thoughts? Don't even know where to send it.



It's also something I haven't notice any change from in recent windows updates, and I think it has maybe always been that way..
Old 15th March 2018
  #5586
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakestyle View Post
Fairly curious as what is the issue with certain window behavior in some applications, and whether or not it's the application in question or a Windows issue.
Often 'Open' or 'Save' location windows open they are not placed properly within the screen area, usually dropping out of view on the bottom.

examples
Cubase - 'Backup project'
Kontakt - 'Batch Resave'

are just two examples which illustrate this, at least here.
Any thoughts? Don't even know where to send it.



It's also something I haven't notice any change from in recent windows updates, and I think it has maybe always been that way..
I assume you are on Windows 10. Do you know which release?

Out of curiosity, do you have a high-DPI screen, or run at a higher than 100% DPI setting? Not all programs understand DPI scaling, even if they tell the OS they do.

You can check by going to Start->Settings->System->Display and look at what value is shown under "Scale and layout"

Pete
Old 15th March 2018
  #5587
Lives for gear
I've had this issue, also. I always assumed it was a scaling issue as Pete said. I notice it in Internet Explorer when I scale up to be able to read in bed without my glasses. Everything displays correctly without horizontal scrolling but if I click on a footnote, the dialogue opens partially out of view. That can be scrolled to the correct position.

Craig's List pics open partially out of view at higher scales and can't be scrolled or dragged to center. They just stay where they are, partially out of view.

I suppose it's related to how some ads display here on GS and I read this in Edge. Once in awhiile I need to scale down when an unruly ad is floating in the text area. Now that I think about it I'll try to notice if that is happening only if I happen to be here in Explorer. Rarely.
Old 15th March 2018
  #5588
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wakestyle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
I assume you are on Windows 10. Do you know which release?

Out of curiosity, do you have a high-DPI screen, or run at a higher than 100% DPI setting? Not all programs understand DPI scaling, even if they tell the OS they do.
Pete
Winver = 1709
Scaling at 100%
Monitor is 2560X1440. I'm certain that this was also present on my previous monitor which wasn't as large.

So do you think this might be issue with the programs or windows? I've mentioned that the issue has been demonstrated with more than one application.

thanks for all your help
Old 15th March 2018
  #5589
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakestyle View Post
Winver = 1709
Scaling at 100%
Monitor is 2560X1440. I'm certain that this was also present on my previous monitor which wasn't as large.

So do you think this might be issue with the programs or windows? I've mentioned that the issue has been demonstrated with more than one application.

thanks for all your help
Thanks. Not sure yet where the problem is.

Single display, I assume.

Do you know what video card you have? (Intel, AMD, NVidia? + model)

Also, I've been assuming that you whited-out the folder names shown in that dialog. Is that a correct assumption, or does the dialog really show a whole bunch of folder icons with no names?

Have you ever manually resized the dialogs to make them smaller? If so, do they open at the same original (large and partially off-screen) size?

Also, for grins, is tablet mode on? You can see that as a setting in the notifications area. On a desktop, it should be grayed out and not on.

Pete
Old 15th March 2018
  #5590
Also, regarding dialog size, this post here is quite helpful. The important part is the removal of the various entries in there. You could be specific and look for one that has Cubase in the binary value (or Kontakt), or do like the author did and close the program and then remove all but the 0 and MRUListEx entries.

Save Dialog Resize Problem Solved - Windows 10 Forums

Pete
Old 16th March 2018
  #5591
Gear Maniac
this might turn out as a bit of a rant, let's see ;-)

The whole scaling/HighDPI thing is a complete and utter mess! But to the best of my knowledge NOT because of Windows (btw same installation since Win7, always upgraded, no problem, no multiboot, (i've got a life ;-) ). Only thing I needed to do after FCU was reregister fabfilter plugins), but because a couple of plugin devs still live in the f....... dark-ages (is swearing allowed here?).

I mainly use Ableton (Presonus Studio One only for comping with melodyne and ara and they have "solved" the issue with plugins by not scaling them at all, which is especially funny on my 4k 13" laptop) and since Live 10 it is highdpi aware. Though the amount of bugs I needed to file is quite a lot. A lot of them are still open. Mostly related to buttons vanished, or not clickable, dragndrop stopping to work, the Windows "File, Edit, Help" menu bar not clickable or only after a resize of the window, crashes or completely garbled plug-in UIs. Now I don't blame Ableton or only a little bit, imo they are doing a decent job of hunting bugs down, but from what I've seen a lot of the stuff is either OpenGL or cross-platform framework related. When I had crashes in the beta ableton versions and tried to debug with VS it was always OpenGL.
Main suspects right now are Native Instruments (complete mess), Waves (not scalable), Soundtoys (the expert pop-down sometimes has problems being displayed properly). Eventide mostly works, U-He only has installer issues, Fabfilter is behaving nicely.
So if there's anything Microsoft can do to nudge, push or force plug-in devs to using proper techniques that would be plain awesome and make my life and work so much easier :-)

fyi: HD 4600 internal GPU, 2 screens, one 4k 32" with Windows scaling 150%, one FHD 24" with scaling at 100%
Old 16th March 2018
  #5592
Agreed that high DPI is still a pain.

The issue goes *WAY* back. Before higher DPI screens became available, app developers would just indicate that they were high DPI aware, even when they weren't. So we didn't do any automatic scaling for them. Java apps are notorius for this.

Additionally, many UI frameworks would use absolute screen pixels instead of logical pixels. In 100% DPI systems, you could interchange the two and you wouldn't see any difference. Sometimes, app devs did that, and you only find the bugs when you are on a high DPI system.

Then there are applications like Ableton Live which basically tell the OS to leave them alone, they do all their UI scaling internally.

Finally, Windows is an open system as far as putting pixels on the screen from desktop apps. The massive number of possible UI frameworks (DirectX, OpenGL, GDI, GDI+, Qt, XAML over DirectX, HTML, whatever Java apps use, etc.) makes scaling challenging.

This is something we work on with every release of Windows. We special case situations, adjust code, etc. It continues to get better, but that may not always be visible if you're in the same apps all the time, and they haven't yet been addressed.

In any case, DPI isn't the issue with what wakestyle posted. Something else going on there.

Pete

PS. If you have a specific app that is not scaling well, sometimes running it in compatibility mode helps. Right-click the app shortcut. Go to the compatibility tab. Start first with checking the "Override high DPI scaling behavior". You can also try running in compat mode for a specific version of the OS. That sometimes helps, but you can also lose any features implemented for later versions.
Old 16th March 2018
  #5593
Gear Maniac
Thanks Pete!
I was already aware and using compat settings for quite a few problematic candidates.
re your comment about ableton doing it on their own: my point exactly. Maybe they shouldn't do that ;-) Especially if Windows already knows how to do it properly.

Are you guys in any contact with NI, Ableton, Waves, Presonus or framework devs like JUCE? (to name my biggest pain points). I know that Google has put some pressure on app developers to finally conform to Material Design, and MS has quite a few guides available as well.
Markus
Old 16th March 2018
  #5594
Quote:
Originally Posted by markusschloesser View Post
Thanks Pete!
I was already aware and using compat settings for quite a few problematic candidates.
re your comment about ableton doing it on their own: my point exactly. Maybe they shouldn't do that ;-) Especially if Windows already knows how to do it properly.

Are you guys in any contact with NI, Ableton, Waves, Presonus or framework devs like JUCE? (to name my biggest pain points). I know that Google has put some pressure on app developers to finally conform to Material Design, and MS has quite a few guides available as well.
Markus
We inform and then suggest, not put pressure on them. Doesn't always work, but feels like the right thing to do. The desktop is the wild west, and developers can do most anything they feel is right for their customers.

We've tried to get people on board with the sandbox idea, and that was not successful in this space. But, FWIW, the UWP framework we put together for UI handles all these pain points.

Pete
Old 16th March 2018
  #5595
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wakestyle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
Single display, I assume.

Do you know what video card you have? (Intel, AMD, NVidia? + model)

Also, I've been assuming that you whited-out the folder names shown in that dialog. Is that a correct assumption, or does the dialog really show a whole bunch of folder icons with no names?

Have you ever manually resized the dialogs to make them smaller? If so, do they open at the same original (large and partially off-screen) size?

Also, for grins, is tablet mode on? You can see that as a setting in the notifications area. On a desktop, it should be grayed out and not on.

Pete
Dual Display

Currently AMD, but previously Nvidia (1050, HD7750 respectively) No difference.

Yes whited out details. All is working except the window opens off screen.

I tried the resize, but and it does remember the resize, but the top of the window seems to still open at the same place. So I guess it's semi-solved. Windows just won't remember the location of the window. So now, it opens a somewhat 'squished' window, which won't display my entire drive/folders unless I manually move and resize.. oh well..

I also tried the regedit in the link you provided (delete all suggested items), then re-opened. No difference and no new entry created. I am thinking this particular window type is not same as regular open/save dialog window, as it clearly has a different set of properties/function.

Tablet mode off.

thx.

Last edited by wakestyle; 16th March 2018 at 07:48 PM.. Reason: edited details
Old 16th March 2018
  #5596
Thanks. Wasn't sure if Cubase was using a common dialog or their own. Sounds like they're using their own.

Are both displays the same resolution? If not, Cubase may be using the dimensions of the wrong display in order to calculate the location to open the dialog. You could change which monitor is plugged into which port on the card to swap which one is primary vs secondary (or use the controls in the Windows display settings to do that) and see if that changes it.

Pete
Old 16th March 2018
  #5597
Lives for gear
 
stella645's Avatar
 

Maybe unrelated but I used to get an off screen dialogue issue all the time with multi monitors and Cubase.....though this was on Win7 back in 2012.

I installed a sytem tray utility called Sheepdog just to be able to round up lost windows!

The problem completely disappeared for me one day with an Nvidia driver update.
Old 16th March 2018
  #5598
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ponzi's Avatar
Gonna put in a little word since we have a microsoft employee handy. If the many tiny fixed size dialogue boxes used when administering windows server were to be made scalable, or at least open at a good size, it would be much appreciated. Just today I had to open a file directory properties dialogue box and the security tab only shows three entries at a time, and I imagined a world where that did not happen.
Old 16th March 2018
  #5599
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
Gonna put in a little word since we have a microsoft employee handy. If the many tiny fixed size dialogue boxes used when administering windows server were to be made scalable, or at least open at a good size, it would be much appreciated. Just today I had to open a file directory properties dialogue box and the security tab only shows three entries at a time, and I imagined a world where that did not happen.
Agreed on fixed-size dialogs. Those have been part of the system since forever.

Best thing to do for stuff like that is to add a Feedback Hub entry so that others can vote it up. If I ask for it myself, as an employee, it just gets set aside, especially since I don't personally know the people on the team that owns that feature.

Pete
Old 17th March 2018
  #5600
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Mike O's Avatar
 

The only problem I have with Win 10 is on my Surface Pro. Finding a resolution/scaling setting on the Surface Pro that makes editing possible has so far eluded me. I've seen a tutorial out there that seems to show a setting that is successful. This with the Surface Pro monitor only.

In the process of trying however, I've noticed that with two monitors, when you focus on one (external or 'internal') and zoom (Ctrl +), it affects both monitors. Not application related.

Annoying, and has kept me from using the Surface Pro when it could be useful for small things. But to date, I've filed it away a "1st world problem".

Perfection, although desirable, is expensive.*

* To clarify: I don't expect perfection. Not a comment on the Surface Pro or Win 10, both of which I enjoy.

Last edited by Mike O; 22nd March 2018 at 10:02 PM.. Reason: Clarification
Old 20th March 2018
  #5601
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
Agreed on fixed-size dialogs. Those have been part of the system since forever.

Best thing to do for stuff like that is to add a Feedback Hub entry so that others can vote it up. If I ask for it myself, as an employee, it just gets set aside, especially since I don't personally know the people on the team that owns that feature.

Pete
Hey Pete what's this all about with Window 10 ending-
Fasten Your Seat Belts Or Duck and Recover? | NI Community Forum
Old 20th March 2018
  #5602
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatizright View Post
Hey Pete what's this all about with Window 10 ending-
Fasten Your Seat Belts Or Duck and Recover? | NI Community Forum
It's not ending. Just read the Microsoft page in the link. Look at the table on that page.
Old 20th March 2018
  #5603
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatizright View Post
Hey Pete what's this all about with Window 10 ending-
Fasten Your Seat Belts Or Duck and Recover? | NI Community Forum
If you notice, that article is over a year old (Feb 2017). It's presumably talking about Windows 10 S, which was designed primarily for education and other scenarios where locking down makes sense, and which will only run apps from the Windows Store. It's, in part, a Chromebook compete designed for safety and stability.

Devices have already shipped with Windows 10 S on them.

We've since decided to simply provide an "S Mode" in regular SKUs, rather than have a distinct SKU with the limitations
Windows 10 in S Mode coming soon to all editions of Windows 10 - Windows Experience BlogWindows Experience Blog

Note that Windows 10 S and the coming S Mode both support installing desktop applications as long as they've been packaged for the store.

As to EOL for versions, that was the plan all along. Each version has a support lifetime for 18 months (a year and a half). The original release of Windows 10 went out of support last May, for example.

The table on the link is pretty explicit as to which versions expire when. We can't retroactively change the end-of-life date, even in "a snap decision"; that support cycle is as it has been.

The 2023 date is for Windows 8.1 extended support.

Pete
Old 20th March 2018
  #5604
If I get a chance, I'll reply on the NI thread. I created a forum account there (your regular NI account doesn't carry over), but they have to manually approve accounts. So likely won't activate it until tomorrow.

Pete
Old 21st March 2018
  #5605
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
If you notice, that article is over a year old (Feb 2017). It's presumably talking about Windows 10 S, which was designed primarily for education and other scenarios where locking down makes sense, and which will only run apps from the Windows Store. It's, in part, a Chromebook compete designed for safety and stability.

Devices have already shipped with Windows 10 S on them.

We've since decided to simply provide an "S Mode" in regular SKUs, rather than have a distinct SKU with the limitations
Windows 10 in S Mode coming soon to all editions of Windows 10 - Windows Experience BlogWindows Experience Blog

Note that Windows 10 S and the coming S Mode both support installing desktop applications as long as they've been packaged for the store.

As to EOL for versions, that was the plan all along. Each version has a support lifetime for 18 months (a year and a half). The original release of Windows 10 went out of support last May, for example.

The table on the link is pretty explicit as to which versions expire when. We can't retroactively change the end-of-life date, even in "a snap decision"; that support cycle is as it has been.

The 2023 date is for Windows 8.1 extended support.

Pete
So with my current dell desktop will is this be something I will install in an update?
Old 21st March 2018
  #5606
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatizright View Post
So with my current dell desktop will is this be something I will install in an update?
Not sure exactly what you're asking, but if you're asking about updates, they (unless blocked or something wrong) come automatically.

You can check the version you're running through Start->Settings->System->About

Pete
Old 22nd March 2018
  #5607
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdm View Post
This limit is reality for some of us, and I'm not the only one. I know of other users not able to open older Nuendo sessions because new Nuendo 8 features reduced the limit just enough. And that is a notable concern - DAW developers must use FLS slots if they add component libraries (i.e. modular feature sets vs. hard programming new features into the software). This is more common with Steinberg's approach, given the two application development (Cubase/Nuendo sharing a core engine, with add-on features). Fortunately for me, VEPro uses no FLS slots (nor should it, being just a server connection), so most of my work avoids it. However, with electronic music, where a lot of different VIs and plugins are common, it is far more likely.

Studio One just isn't there yet with its features set, and neither is Reaper (i.e. Eucon support, custom video engine, ADR, Reconform, etc). They both likely tally more free FLS slots for empty projects - I know Reaper has more free slots.
This post is intended to share my recent experiences on the FLS limitation issue as a threat for Audio production that has arised along with Windows 10, and to provide some more detailed information as well as a work-around strategy. It is based on using REAPER as DAW but also users of other Windows DAW systems might profit from it to get to improve their situation.

I apologize in advance for the considerable length of my post.

1) CONTEXT

Recently I changed from FL Studio to REAPER because with FL Studio I had been suffering from CPU capacity issues as well as from plugin loading problems, both for larger projects with many plugins. After I had concluded that REAPER offers a much better multi-core approach I spent some time to rebuild my mastering template and then I started a few weeks ago to load a big project I had been working on in FL Studio previously. Everything went well until the last 3 tracks, when I suddenly got an error message every time I wanted to load a new plugin... It seemed to be the return of the 4GB RAM limit issues I experienced a few years before with 32-bit plugins, but I was using the 64-bit version of REAPER and almost all the plugins I was using are 64-bit as well. What was even more strange was that I could load without problems multiple copies of any plugins that were already present in my project, but trying to load any new plugin resulted in failure messages. What was wrong???

I searched the web for experiences of other REAPER users but initially I did not find anything that could explain it. Then I found a 2 years old thread on the Steinberg forum and while reading I started to recognize exactly the same issue as I was experiencing:

busy mix most plugins will no longer load - www.steinberg.net

Searching further with the right keywords, I finally found this and several other threads that helped me to fully understand the issue:

Vst count limit - Steinberg please do something! - www.steinberg.net
Cubase | Windows | UAD >>> limited amount of plugins only!

(I will not re-explain the FLS limitation issue here, so instead I suggest reading all previous threads that should give sufficient information)

My main conclusion is that it will probably take a (very) long time for this issue to remain present:

- some plugin developers might change their strategy but there will be for sure many FLS consuming plugins remaining
- some DAW suppliers might help us (I will give some ideas at the end) but I am not sure if they will add this to their strategy
- only Microsoft could fully take away the FLS limit but apparently they have their reasons not to do so

As a result, the only way to continue using Windows systems for large-scale projects with many different plugins is to live with this issue and to try finding work-arounds, which is the main subject of this post.

To finalize this context section, some information about my system configuration:

- Windows 10 64-bit system with i7-6950X 10-core/20-thread CPU and 64GB RAM (please note that I found exactly the same FLS limitation issue on a Windows 7 system)
- Main DAWs FL Studio and REAPER (I found the FLS issue on both)
- More than 1000 different plugins (UAD, Waves, Plugin Alliance, PSP, Melda, Fabfilter, Blue Cat, UVI, D16, Sonnox, Arturia, Voxengo, Tone2, Vengeance, ...)

2) MEASUREMENT AND RESULTS

One of the main problems is that the FLS limit is initially totally invisible. We are all used to focus on CPU capacity and RAM usage to avoid issues, but the FLS usage is only shown when it is too late: when no more plugins can be loaded! Therefore the first requirement for living with the FLS limitation is to know at any time how many FLS slots are left.

Fortunately REAPER offers a way to obtain this information. The debug console (access through the actions menu) has a special command "tls_avail" which responds with both the number of remaining TLS and FLS slots. In order not to type "tls_avail" every time I made a special AutoIt script running in the background, which will automatically send this command to the debug window once it opens, and close it again afterwards. All I have to do is pressing the F12 key (that I configured to open the debug console), then the debug window opens and shows automatically (via the script) the FLS status, and when I press F12 a second time the window will close again. This makes a world of difference, since it allows to check for any of my plugins their exact FLS usage, and I can see at any time how many FLS slots there are left when building a project.

Further to the above threads that were already giving some information about the FLS usage of certain plugins, I would like to share some of the conclusions after checking the number of FLS slots for each of my plugins:

- (specific to REAPER) The initial number of slots showing up without any plugin loaded is 116 for REAPER-32 and 119 for REAPER-64. However when the first plugin is loaded, 5 additional slots are used, so in reality these figures are 111 for REAPER-32 and 114 for REAPER-64.

- (specific to REAPER) At the moment a project is saved for the first time, 6 additional slots are used... and even after the menu option "Save as..." is selected without actually saving, the FLS counter is reduced with 6 slots!!

- Most plugins are consuming just one FLS slot, but for some suppliers they are all using two slots: UAD, Fabfilter, Cableguys, 2CAudio, Unfiltered Audio, Toneboosters, PSP (recent plugins with iLok), D16 (recent plugins).

- Some suppliers need a larger amount of FLS slots for their first plugin: 1st Waves plugin 6 slots (but afterwards most Waves plugins use no slots at all), 1st Melda plugin 6 slots, 1st UAD plugin 5 slots, 1st Vengeance plugin 3 slots.

- High numbers of slots are needed for the Arturia plugins (as already mentioned in other articles). Analog Lab 3 uses 47 slots (!!), 10 slots are needed for Minifilter, and 4 slots for most of the other Arturia plugins.

- Several common VSTi plugins use 2 slots each: Sylenth 1, Rapid, ANA2, Kick 2, Thorn, ...

- Finally one positive exception: 32-bit plugins!! Even if some older 32-bit plugins are using large amounts of FLS slots (e.g. Alionoctis 21 slots, Virtua Drum 20, Analog Warfare 12), when using a 64-bit DAW like REAPER or FL Studio that allows to bridge 32-bit plugins, these plugins will not use any FLS slots of the main DAW process (I will come back on this in the next section). So whereas my strategy up to now was to avoid using 32-bit plugins as much as possible, suddenly they have become much more attractive!

In my case there is one other factor that caused me to hit the FLS limit much faster than most others. Within my setup I am using several Novation hardware devices to access each of my plugins with Automap software (using dedicated Automap profiles for each of my plugins). As a result, all my plugins are accessed through special Automap DLL files which then communicate with the corresponding plugin. But... I found that these Automap DLL files each need one additional FLS slot!! So in this situation, almost all plugins need at least 2 FLS slots... which makes the issue clearly worse (please note that all the FLS slot numbers I have given here above are the numbers without using Automap).

3) WORK-AROUND STRATEGY

After understanding the issue in detail, it seemed like I had to choose between several options that would either limit my workflow (using less plugins / bouncing more tracks / taking off the Automap feature) or challenge my system resources in a different way (like bridging all plugins - but when bridging all plugins, not only each different plugin will have its own process, but also each new instance os plugins already used, which would result in a very resource-demanding situation, especially for real-time audio).

But after considering in more detail, I found that actually the various ways in which plugins can be configured within REAPER allow using than one process to run plugins, without the need of bridging every single plugin and thereby creating hundreds of additional processes. REAPER enables the user to select one of several process options for each individual plugin:
- either running as a part of the main DAW process,
- or in a separate second process, intended to run buggy plugins without crashing the main process,
- or in a separate third process, reserved for 32-bit plugins only,
- or in a dedicated process (one process per plugin instance, an option which can be selected for both 64-bit and 32-bit plugins).

As a result, 3 separate processes are available to run plugins, thereby offering 3 times the number of FLS slots, and in addition dedicated processes can be used when more slots are needed! After making some calculations on the average usage of various plugin types in my projects, I changed my REAPER configuration as follows:

- all 64-bit VST plugins are set to run in the main process, except UAD/Waves/Fabfilter/Arturia/Mux/Bidule
- all 64-bit VSTi plugins, as well as all Waves VST and Fabfilter VST, are set to run in the second (separate) process (normally I use less different VSTi than VST plugins, therefore I added all Waves and FabFilter VST plugins to the second process for a better balance)
- all 32-bit VST and VSTi plugins, as well as all UAD plugins, are set to run in the third (32-bit) process (for all UAD I now only use their 32-bit version instead of the 64-bit version, since I will not use many 32-bit only plugins and as a result the remaining slots in the 32-bit process become available for my full UAD collection)
- all VST/VSTi plugins with high individual FLS usage (e.g. Arturia) and all plugin racks (e.g. Mux, Bidule - which can contain other plugins and therefore may have high FLS counts) are set to run as dedicated process (in practice there will be only a few of these per project, which does not cause any issues for the total number of Windows processes)
- finally, I have added for each of my plugins an additional JBridge version into the REAPER FX Browser, so that in case I would be out of FLS slots in one of the 3 processes (in case of a very large project) I can always add a bridged version of any plugin (running in its own Windows process without FLS limitation).

In this way I can use as much plugins as I need, I do not have to bounce any tracks, I can keep the Automap feature (I have just taken off the Automap option for certain plugins) and my CPU cores only see a few additional Windows processes. To give an idea of the improvement: for the project that initially caused me the FLS shortage issue (due to a FLS count at zero), I now see a FLS count of 72 for the main process (i.e. almost two third remaining) and for the two other processes I still have a lot of FLS capacity left as well (without using any bridging into separate processes).

4) SUGGESTIONS FOR DAW SUPPLIERS

I would like to end with two suggestions for the DAW suppliers:

- offering a direct view on the number of the remaining FLS count, ideally for the various processes within the DAW environment (e.g. for REAPER I would appreciate to be able to see the exact FLS count also for two other processes - separate and 32-bit). It would be great to have next to the CPU and RAM indicators - as we can find on every DAW - a figure showing the remaining FLS slots per plugin process!

- increasing the number of Windows processes to run plugins (why not offering 5 or 10 additional processes bringing each their additional FLS capacity, with either manual or automatic configuration per plugin - like a CPU can have 10 cores, a DAW could have 10 Windows processes to run plugins in and then the FLS issue would be totally gone)...
Old 22nd March 2018
  #5608
Lives for gear
 
TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Great Post Lucas.

Some solid testing , analysis and valuable information to add to Dedrics earlier posts.

Have you been in touch with Justin Frankel yet ?

Old 23rd March 2018
  #5609
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post

Have you been in touch with Justin Frankel yet ?
No, but I intend to post the same message on the cockos forum so he will probably see it over there...
Old 23rd March 2018
  #5610
Gear Addict
 

Thanks for this, Lucas! Excellent post and info, and a welcomed addition to the FLS discussion in this thread.
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