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Windows 10 is rolling out... share your experiences here
Old 12th March 2018
  #5551
Gear Addict
 
Therion's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexis View Post
Thank you for your kindness in helping, Therion!

When you say, "The optimal way to stop the windows update, is to simply stop the prosess ...", are you saying to do that if one sees the process begin inn real time while they are working on other things?

But actually I was kind of asking the opposite ... in ways I cannot remember I have successfully blocked W10 from downloading the Creator's Edition, and I was hoping someone might be able to show me how to let it "in" to my system.

Thank you again!
Im talking about stopping the programs all together.

If you remeber the older versions of windows. You could just select that you dont want updates in the update setting menu.

This has bin removed. So to access the option, you will need to do it "old school"

If you open your task manager, go to services.
Find the windows update service, right click on it and open the service.
Find the windows update service in the menu, right klick it and go to properties.

Now you have enter the right place to turn off the update. Here you can start and stop it and also see wich Rpc the task needs to run and wich tasks that need the update to run.
Old 12th March 2018
  #5552
Lives for gear
 
Analogue Mastering's Avatar
@ alexis the easiest way for you is probably to check your posts in your control panel, you will find the post where you thanked the person for the tweak, go back to that point in the thread and you will find what you are looking for. I recall it had something to do with the policy editor, you might try resetting it’s defaults?
Old 12th March 2018
  #5553
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Wade View Post
...Re-reading your post, you've exceeded your quota of strikes and have struck out your own side in my book...
Gotta go with Psychlist on this one, dude's got the patience of Job.
Old 12th March 2018
  #5554
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Wade View Post
I get it, I surrender.

Funny how people can judge what's relevant in a thread titled Windows Is Rolling Out.. Share your experience.

Windows rolled out long ago so where's the cutoff as to what's really relevant to this thread? So the conflict?

I understand it stems from fear, I thought there'd be more that would want to know what's possibly in store rather than hide their heads and hope.

Like I've said, I couldn't care less. Just trying to help the type that can't figure out how to re-enable updates that they themselves disabled. I'm still ROFLMFAO at princess.

Right, done. I know how poorly princesses tolerate disappointment, can't resist damsels in distress.
I think what people were saying really just boiled down to 'Thanks for doing this, but maybe it'd be best to do this in a separate thread to avoid confusion.'

And I think that some people here, at least me, were pointing out that even if you're clear that you're talking about the insider edition(s) some people aren't going to 'get it', and then their replies confuse things. So, a separate thread is the solution.
Old 12th March 2018
  #5555
Lives for gear
Maybe 'Insiders' should sign an NDA. It'd be impossible to enforce, however.
Old 12th March 2018
  #5556
Lives for gear
 
Analogue Mastering's Avatar
Just to be clear, insider is public, anyone who wants in, gets in.
Old 12th March 2018
  #5557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Wade View Post
I get it, I surrender.

Funny how people can judge what's relevant in a thread titled Windows Is Rolling Out.. Share your experience.
Rolling out, as in released to the public, used by the public. Noone is using Insider builds on their workstation. There is a difference.
Quote:
Right, done. I know how poorly princesses tolerate disappointment, can't resist damsels in distress.
Whatever. Just don't judge my choice of tutu color.
Old 12th March 2018
  #5558
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering View Post
Just to be clear, insider is public, anyone who wants in, gets in.
Understood. Just thinking out loud.
Old 12th March 2018
  #5559
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering View Post
@ alexis the easiest way for you is probably to check your posts in your control panel, you will find the post where you thanked the person for the tweak, go back to that point in the thread and you will find what you are looking for. I recall it had something to do with the policy editor, you might try resetting it’s defaults?
Thanks Analogue Mastering -

With your and other suggestions I think I have enough to dig in and undo the download blocking.

I'll keep you all posted, am in the middle of a project now, I'll be smart and wait till that's done before doing this

Thanks again!
Old 12th March 2018
  #5560
Gear Addict
 
Magnus Lindberg's Avatar
 

I am surprised there is not more talk about the memory management issue here, pretty serious stuff. Any more info on this Pete?
Old 13th March 2018
  #5561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus Lindberg View Post
I am surprised there is not more talk about the memory management issue here, pretty serious stuff. Any more info on this Pete?
I haven't done any DAW testing on my own PC. I tend not to micro-manage perf on my workstation, as it has always been good enough for how I use it. However, I know some folks here really push their computers hard, and so this will potentially make a real difference to them.

There's always a give & take between performance and security, and performance and battery. Assuming this is legit, I'm not surprised it crept in. I'm glad some customers were paying attention here and dove into it

For now, I can't share details or confirm anything about it because I haven't yet looked deeply into it to see if it's an actual bug and actual fix.

Pete
Old 13th March 2018
  #5562
Lives for gear
 
TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
I haven't done any DAW testing on my own PC. I tend not to micro-manage perf on my workstation, as it has always been good enough for how I use it. However, I know some folks here really push their computers hard, and so this will potentially make a real difference to them.
What would be of value is how/when exactly the variable is being experienced , in what working environments, DAW's, VI's, etc.

Old 13th March 2018
  #5563
Quote:
Originally Posted by onewire View Post
Maybe 'Insiders' should sign an NDA. It'd be impossible to enforce, however.
Nah. We're all fine with folks discussing it.

I just want to make sure we have clarity and not confusion. I've already seen posts here on the forum where feedback on an insider build was used to indict Windows 10 all-up.

This is why Insider builds have green screens instead of blue screens as well. So when there *is* a BSOD, and someone posts a screen shot of it, it's very clear that the issue is with an insider build, not the retail build, *especially* when discussing privacy settings, or stuff that messes up our DAWs.

On my primary PC here, I used to run Fast Lane insider builds in earlier versions of Windows 10. However, the issues I'd run into with every other build or so made it challenging for me to maintain a working DAW and general use setup. So I later switched to regular release train here, and my DAW setup has been fine.

I have a couple other PCs with far more frequent builds on them. One, I use daily and have on slow lane. The other I don't use every day, but have on fast lane (or maybe our internal dogfood -- I forget). Seems like every time I boot it up, there's a pending install. But that's expected. I've also had to rebuild it a few times due to funky early builds.

--

Finally, @ Nate Wade , I wasn't questioning your integrity, just the apparent confusion here. Please accept my apology if what I presented was an attack on your person, and not the intended request for clarity on reporting, and understanding of the expectations of the insider program builds.

Many people don't read every word in a post, and also quote just sections. Some folks also search for posts here and only see the one post, not the thread. That's why I suggested being super clear on insider build feedback (or as others have suggested, posting a new thread for like-minded folks interested in DAW-specific testing of insider builds?).

I get the frustration, but a lot of the things you mentioned are expected in insider builds, and are not necessarily indicative of what to expect on release. It really depends on who has submitted what updates for that specific build. I personally find the insider builds less useful for stability testing than for trying out new / updated features.

Copy protection: Yes. It can be a real pain. The multiple IDs used (against our advice) by copy protection may change from release to release, as intended. For example, one of the components of the ID is the install date. If the user changes from, say, Home to Pro through an upgrade, the product ID will also change. But there's a lot of other stuff copy protection dongles/software do to help thwart hackers. That same stuff makes upgrades of the OS a bit of a crapshoot, but most copy protection companies aren't interested in changing their approaches. I honestly wish we could just do away with explicit copy protection altogether.

Pete
Old 13th March 2018
  #5564
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post
What would be of value is how/when exactly the variable is being experienced , in what working environments, DAW's, VI's, etc.

Looking around in our TFS, I can't even confirm that the bug, as reported, exists. So trying to find out more on that first.

If it does exist, I suspect it would vary based on how the DAW author has written memory management code. But that's speculation on my part.

Pete
Old 13th March 2018
  #5565
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
Finally, @ Nate Wade , I wasn't questioning your integrity, just the apparent confusion here. Please accept my apology if what I presented was an attack on your person, and not the intended request for clarity on reporting, and understanding of the expectations of the insider program builds.
I beg to differ. Show me were I omitted to qualify any of my observations with the Insider disclaimer. If you look further, you'll see I repeatedly stated that there was still time to sort the issues I found before release. I stand by everything I've said. If the issues I see make it to the public release, which is now a month away thus reducing the time for things to possibly change, there will be issues in DAWland. Again, I hope it changes, I hope I'm wrong, but it isn't going to miracle itself away. And if you don't like what you hear, make it so there's nothing to bitch about. After all, this whole discussion would be moot if there weren't countless issues for DAW users with every other update.

How is it anyone's problem that others don't read posts except those that don't read them? When I come across a term I don't understand I highlight it in the thread and Search With... . What's so unreasonable about expecting others to do the same. That simple action will produce days of reading, if so desired.

What gets me are the reasons given for the reaction to my posts. In anything in life it's always better to know what's coming than being surprised. Seeing as the scope of this thread has long passed and given issues with past updates as they relate to DAW users would seem to be a good thing, a desired thing. Everyone else has at some point expressed opinions/concerns about past, present and future W10 updates.

And to hell with what some think. If it saves some poor slob from wasting his last authorization or any other a55 ache all the BS is worth it. So thinking this over I'll continue on course, if I so desire.

And yeah I was the one who wasted an install to check if the latest pre-release fixed the Memory Management issue. I was able to ax an issue before it even became one. There's proof of intent right there. Who else here is even in a position to be able to do it?

As to being anal about pristine OS installs, what's easier to troubleshoot, a system that's never more than a month old or a system upgraded since XP, had countless in/re-installs, etc... . Like I said, a redo's minutes away so I don't even have to troubleshoot if I don't feel like it. I can reboot to a fresh perfect install where I can just play/work and never worry about anything. So call it what you will, I call it being smart.

Oh, and the princess comment wasn't directed at Mr. Tutu. Discussing color of same paints pictures I don't need to see.

I could see if I took the 'I know something I won't tell.' gambit, but I've outlined exact issues, so there's that. Seems the one's telling me others don't read complete posts are guilty of doing just that.

BTW, I know every method to disable/tame updates. Now there's an example of 'I know something I won't tell'.
Old 13th March 2018
  #5566
Lives for gear
 

To top it off, I'm one of the few DAW users taking the hits to get reports of issues in front of the right people while there's still a chance to change it, before others have to even deal with it. Who else here is doing that? Who else anywhere as it relates to DAWs? And I'm getting guff for it? I'd much prefer you thanked me and went on your way. If you can't do that then just ignore it and move along.
Old 13th March 2018
  #5567
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Wade View Post
To top it off, I'm one of the few DAW users taking the hits to get reports of issues in front of the right people while there's still a chance to change it, before others have to even deal with it. Who else here is doing that?
Do you report the issues back directly to Microsoft?
Old 13th March 2018
  #5568
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Do you report the issues back directly to Microsoft?
Like I've said repeatedly, all telemetry is enabled. I've seen the Gathering Info-Sending Report windows, but I hear that nothing's in the logs at MS. That's a problem right there. The test install was first an upgrade applied to current and then a fresh install, fully updated, all settings default and only Cubase installed, also fully updated. Couldn't start with a cleaner plate, which shows the diligence behind all reports. I'm giving it every shot possible. Have you any idea the number of idiot screens and reboots I've gone through during this time, giving each release the same fair playing field. For a while, there were things you couldn't access to even generate a report. I have sent Feedback on a couple of issues that didn't generate a report. I'd have loved to have included screenshots, but it's hard to grab one when the system's frozen.

The more I think about it, I'm convinced I've acted in an appropriate manner in an appropriate thread.

Got better things to do than flog expired equines, like prepare for the blizzard that's about to hit.
Old 13th March 2018
  #5569
Lives for gear
 

Re; Memory Management

The tool tests realtime audio processing's drift over time at a set samplerate/depth, IIRC. There was a drastic change in results between W7 and W10 which is what led to discovery. In W7 you could let it run for hours with no faults and acceptable latency numbers. In W10, the same test only took minutes to start spitting faults and system latency increasing to unusability for realtime.

Yes, how software is coded plays a large part as to why it isn't commonly known, they've employed a workaround, IIRC.

As I reported, the latest pre-release sorts the issue. W10 numbers meet or exceed W7's. What it means for DAW users, I'm not sure. I hear of ASIO connection in DAWs that are left running for long lengths being lost resulting in white noise through the eardrums but all power setting are correct. Maybe this is part of that.
Old 13th March 2018
  #5570
Lives for gear
While I really appreciate your enthusiasm and your helpfulness to others, in this case I think you're a little overboard.

You seem to think the telemetry "knows all". It's only a tool like any other. They don't, necessarily, know what's on your screen, what icon you clicked on, or what dialogue box an app presents to you says, a licence fail, etc. You report an incident as fully as you can (I imagine time date and time would be crucial) and they use that AND the telemetry to try and determine a cause and a fix. You're not holding up your end of the bargain. The time you spent typing these problems here would be more helpful to everyone if you'd reported this to MS and had forgone posting it here.

Of course I could be totally off base.
Old 13th March 2018
  #5571
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Wade View Post
Like I've said repeatedly, all telemetry is enabled.
That won't cover everything, that's why there's the ability to file reports separately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Wade View Post
I'm giving it every shot possible. Have you any idea the number of idiot screens and reboots I've gone through during this time, giving each release the same fair playing field.
Ok, but there's a solution to your problem. The solution is to NOT use insider ring releases. IF you want stable installs the don't use inside ring releases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Wade View Post
The more I think about it, I'm convinced I've acted in an appropriate manner in an appropriate thread.
Well, most people here are NOT on insider ring releases, so your continuous reporting isn't relevant to most people here. On top of that, as Pete already said, a lot of what goes into those inside rings are new features to be tested by users. And a fair amount of the time they never make it into the final release for one reason or another. So you complaining about a pre-release version isn't going to be relevant to people who never touch the same release.

I said before that you easily could have created a separate thread for Windows insider releases, but you just ignored that.

Since you're no longer contributing anything of value to me (and to others I'm guessing) it's unfortunate to have to put you on ignore just to not have to weed through all the to me irrelevant information.
Old 13th March 2018
  #5572
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Wade View Post
For a while, there were things you couldn't access to even generate a report. I have sent Feedback on a couple of issues that didn't generate a report. I'd have loved to have included screenshots, but it's hard to grab one when the system's frozen.

I have a stable system a reboot away, not complaining, not asking for help, just reporting observations.

Putting me on ignore harms me how? I mean after all, why mention it if it isn't meant thus.

Like I said, if it saves a Guest from issues it was worth it.

I'm done. You get what you get. When the update hits and there are issues, the braying you hear will be me.
Old 13th March 2018
  #5573
nms
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nms's Avatar
Just discovered what appears to be a windows defender memory leak. Checked task manager to see it's taking up 3.5gb of memory, despite real-time protection being turned off. I guess it's time to disable defender from my startup.
Old 13th March 2018
  #5574
Gear Maniac
 
aflon-telom's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Wade View Post
I'm done. You get what you get. When the update hits and there are issues, the braying you hear will be me.
Welcome to the world of beta tests. Don't pretend you are special because you found issues in a public beta, don't pretend it will be released like that and don't pretend like you are an apostle.
There have been major issues in every insider build. Just report to ms and stop making a stir at a public forum about a beta version noone uses.
You turned from a useful contributor into a wandering moan zone, please get your hormones straight.
Old 13th March 2018
  #5575
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Wade View Post
...

I'm done.
Golly, again?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Wade View Post
...
When the update hits and there are issues, the braying you hear will be me.
So you're telling us you're acting like a ...?

Thanks for the clarification and heads up, but honestly ... no need!
Old 13th March 2018
  #5576
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Wade View Post
Like I've said repeatedly, all telemetry is enabled...
In other words, no, you are not submitting problem reports through the insider build designated process. Instead you are posting them here, where they are not helping the windows 10 developers.
Old 13th March 2018
  #5577
Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
Just discovered what appears to be a windows defender memory leak. Checked task manager to see it's taking up 3.5gb of memory, despite real-time protection being turned off. I guess it's time to disable defender from my startup.
Is this Windows 7, 8/8.1, or 10?

Does it still happen after a reboot?

Anything else funky going on? Wondering if this was a one-off problem, or something else.

FWIW, Defender never uses much CPU, Disk, or Memory resource on my machine. I've seen reports of it using 2-3gb at times on 7, though. Example:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/38...-eating-memory

Pete
Old 13th March 2018
  #5578
Thumbs up Memory management improvements

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post
What would be of value is how/when exactly the variable is being experienced , in what working environments, DAW's, VI's, etc.

Talked to some folks here, and the news is quite good. It took me a while to understand the scope of what was done, as it was not just someone flipping some code in RS4, but rather a long-buildup to get us into a good place to be able to make some real changes.

Yes, there's a memory performance improvement in RS4, as was reported. The improvement was pretty significant in terms of effort, so it's RS4+ only.

Although RS4 is where you’ll see measurable improvement (as mentioned in the facebook article), this is not a one-time improvement or one-time fix. This is something we've worked on in Windows for some time.

It's also not a Windows-10 specific thing (it goes back to 25 years of Windows NT memory management), but the RS3->RS4 delta is pretty significant in terms of performance. How significant? I wouldn’t be able to quantify that here, as it will vary from application to application.

The audio team was able to track this down because the people in that thread reported the issue on the Feedback Hub and, importantly, shared the ETL (trace logs) which the team then used to debug. That was absolutely key here, and thanks to VB Audio for going the extra mile to make things better for all here. (This isn't a ding on anyone here, I just want you to see concrete results from that process.)

Aside: I wouldn't use that Facebook article as a technical reference; although well-meaning, it is not a technically accurate description of cause/effect, nor are the mitigations (short of the RS4 upgrade) accurate.

We're not done. Although this was a big rock, there are more things we can do in RS5/RS6. If you find audio glitches, and want to take the time to report them in the most actionable way possible, Matthew has a great blog post on how to report them to us using the ETL tools and Feedback Hub. You can find that here:
Taking audio glitch traces on Windows 10: desktop edition – Matthew van Eerde's web log

Matthew and team review those. If they turn out to be related to memory management, the team I just spoke to will get to triage the issue and figure out what to do with it.

If anyone wants to confirm on a non-production system, get 1803 build 17074 or higher (insider slow ring), and test away. Caveats from my previous posts about insider rings applies here.

You can also take before/after measurements when we closer to release, or if you multi-boot like a few folks here, measure both versions on the same machine.

If not appropriate for the forums here, you can always reach me at pete dot brown at Microsoft dot com. I get a ton of email and occasionally overrun my mental buffers, so if I don't reply in some reasonable time, please feel free to ping me again.

Pete
Old 13th March 2018
  #5579
Lives for gear
 
TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
Talked to some folks here, and the news is quite good. It took me a while to understand the scope of what was done, as it was not just someone flipping some code in RS4, but rather a long-buildup to get us into a good place to be able to make some real changes.

Yes, there's a memory performance improvement in RS4, as was reported. The improvement was pretty significant in terms of effort, so it's RS4+ only.
Thanks Pete,

It is encouraging to see that the MS audio team are actually listening when information is delivered via the correct channels.

Not having any direct experience or any reported issues from clients I cant say this is an issue that had been on my radar previously, but any developments under the bonnet that directly improves audio performance is a positive in my book.

Old 13th March 2018
  #5580
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post
Thanks Pete,

It is encouraging to see that the MS audio team are actually listening when information is delivered via the correct channels.

Not having any direct experience or any reported issues from clients I cant say this is an issue that had been on my radar previously, but any developments under the bonnet that directly improves audio performance is a positive in my book.

Thanks.

I don't want to set expectations too high, but the engineers here seemed pretty excited about it so I'm optimistic about what kind of results we can expect.

Pete
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