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Windows 10 is rolling out... share your experiences here
Old 11th March 2017
  #4141
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post
Words DO matter.
But this is still an ad.
Just look at the picture i posted above.
The picture that we find when following the original link is this one:



To me that's significantly different from the one you posted, the origin of which I have no clue.

In addition to that, we can possibly start whining about this once it hits production builds. As far as I understand it, when the source writes "(This screenshot is from build 15048, a recent beta test version of 1703.)" it's actually not currently deployed. It might happen, but currently isn't. So how about we wait with the foam until it actually is?

Again, I'm basing this off of what I read in the linked article, nothing else.

Now, the point here is the impression that the discussion gives users that haven't followed this. If you take the original post (on this topic) and the original poster's subsequent points, it's even more easy to see how people would take this to mean that we in the future will see ads for anything from vacuum cleaners to cars in the same place. That's the impression that I think is given. And I think it's wrong. As others mentioned, these types of prompts aren't uncommon for both OS vendors and third party software.
Old 11th March 2017
  #4142
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
I do agree words matter however with MS Cloud / One Note service, MS mines that info and monitizes it
How, specifically? And what are examples of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
The fact that MS is not advertising products / services other than their own is really a minor point too given the mechanism for delivery of the ad.
Ok, but if it doesn't matter that the service or "whatever" is "free", and it doesn't matter that it's their own product, then shouldn't we be equally concerned about Avid prompting me to upgrade, or Steinberg doing it, or AdAware, or iOS? Isn't it all the same then? It's all advertising and it's all for-profit ultimately and it doesn't matter that it's only for their own companies because it's the mechanism that's the issue.... yes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
As for the Cloud, unless you encrypt data BEFORE moving to the Cloud or pay for special secure offsite Cloud storage then that data is basically out there for others to make money off of. Given some of the tools divulged in the latest "Leaks" scandal, that may not even be enough. While the sky is not falling, being well aware of what is actually going on and aware of what a certain action can lead to is prudent. Thus I posted a link to a method to deal with it.
But this is really a separate issue. Whether or not I choose to utilize cloud storage is separate from whether or not I get annoyed by an ad. I actually do think ads are fairly annoying, and if I was confronted with the prompt depicted in that image on a daily basis then that would be annoying too. But even if I "dealt with" "the ad" the way people suggested I could still choose to use cloud services to store my data, be they GoogleDrive or Dropbox.

So it's a separate but important discussion.

Now, if you want to be fair here you can't really make the above statement without giving Microsoft credit. Because on one hand you're hinting at yet more leaks telling us about US government agencies spying on people, and you point that out in a thread about Microsoft's OS, yet on the other you make no mention of Microsoft actually not just fighting the US government in court on exactly the issue of cloud storage in foreign nations but even making gains on that issue.

If anything when it comes to cloud storage and security Microsoft currently probably deserves to get credited for its stance, rather than shat on. The only issues I would have with MS' cloud storage is if I needed to store content that is in violation of the terms of service. But I have to accept that the service provider has to protect itself from users as well, so it's really just a matter of being an informed customer.

And just for the record and for some context: While people were complaining about privacy issues with Windows 10 I was still using my Yahoo mail account. And after the second reveal of a second security breach of 1 BILLION accounts (including mine) I switched. So I'm well aware of issues with security in the age of the internet. But the big evil corporation that everyone is whining about constantly isn't necessarily the one to fear the most.
Old 11th March 2017
  #4143
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering View Post
How is explaining Apple doesn't work without your Apple ID (which also sets up your iCloud) bashing Apple? Are u sane?
:-)
As charming as ever.
I was referring to multiple posts from you on Gearslutz, where an anti-macOS en anti-Apple bias were more than apparent.

Mostly your arguments were based on ignorance and taste ( and bias obviously).

MacOS as well as Windows can be a good os for audio-work these days.
Old 11th March 2017
  #4144
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post
I was not talking about the service, i was talking about the ad:





Yes, tho it is completely besides the point.
It is not a good explanation for putting these obnoxious ads in the explorer window.

Hey Monover..... the pic you posted shows "oneDrive" turned ON at the lower left area. TURN IT OFF! Of course maybe this is not "your" pic... maybe you are just reprinting something from somewhere else.

Regardless, the os belongs to MS, if "you" have a feature activated that "they" then want to prompt a banner or sales pitch or upgrade idea or....ad.... it's their prerogative and... none of your business. Why is it none of your business? Because "you" clicked yes to all the terms on the eula before installing.

Don't like it? You have THREE nice big choices.....

1. Turn off Onedrive with the MS steps for doing that. Voila, no more conversation about it from MS in your quick access area.

2. Stop using Windows until/unless you (and whoever started this topic) understand the eula and understand the concept that the os isn't yours.

3. Leave everything as is and hey... maybe a notification, banner ad, update ad will someday appear there in the quick access area that YOU might be interested in.

By the way, to date, I've never seen a message from MS in the quick access area. Maybe because I don't have OneDrive operating.

If notifications or advertisements etc ever do appear there, no biggie to me. Like I say, it's not my os, I don't hang out on the quick access screen much, I can certainly learn to ignore the upper area of the quick access screen and.... I have far more important things to be concerned with rather than..... the topic of this topic.
Old 12th March 2017
  #4146
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoodle View Post
Hey Monover..... the pic you posted shows "oneDrive" turned ON at the lower left area. TURN IT OFF! Of course maybe this is not "your" pic... maybe you are just reprinting something from somewhere else.
You didn't read my posts. I already said i have this turned off. So of course its not my picture.

Quote:
Regardless, the os belongs to MS, if "you" have a feature activated that "they" then want to prompt a banner or sales pitch or upgrade idea or....ad.... it's their prerogative and... none of your business.
Excuse me? What sort of technocratic bull**** is that?
I'm a customer. I use their product. So of course it is 'my business' if i don't like something they do.

Quote:
By the way, to date, I've never seen a message from MS in the quick access area. Maybe because I don't have OneDrive operating.
Thats maybe because apparently not everyone gets them. Or it could be a zillion other things.

Quote:
If notifications or advertisements etc ever do appear there, no biggie to me.
So, basically, because you don't care noone should have a problem with this? What kind of nonsense argument is that?
Look, if you don't care and you don't have a problem with these ads then that's your thing.
But please don't tell me what i should think of this.
Old 12th March 2017
  #4147
Lives for gear
 

I've been getting Edge is safer than chrome crap by 11% and a lot of One Drive stuff. Looks new to me, no I don't like it, hopefully they will stop it.
Old 12th March 2017
  #4148
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Analogue Mastering's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolbass View Post
:-)
As charming as ever.
I was referring to multiple posts from you on Gearslutz, where an anti-macOS en anti-Apple bias were more than apparent.

Mostly your arguments were based on ignorance and taste ( and bias obviously).

MacOS as well as Windows can be a good os for audio-work these days.
Who said it couldn't? Seems you're putting words in my mouth, quote please?
Old 12th March 2017
  #4149
Deleted 46dc28f
Guest
I love Windows 10 for music production
Old 12th March 2017
  #4150
Deleted 4fa9684
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
it's even more easy to see how people would take this to mean that we in the future will see ads for anything from vacuum cleaners to cars in the same place. That's the impression that I think is given. And I think it's wrong.
Why are you so sure this won't happen? Ads make money. The only limit against running ads is the argument that ads harm the user experience, but even that isn't necessarily a problem as long as users aren't leaving the OS.

I guarantee you there's someone at MS who can't wait to see car and vacuum ads within W10 happen, and I guarantee they'll keep pushing for it.
Old 12th March 2017
  #4151
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering View Post
Who said it couldn't? Seems you're putting words in my mouth, quote please?
Here you go:

Anyone else thinking of leaving OSX/Apple?


Anyone else thinking of leaving OSX/Apple?


But I am not looking for a prolongued discussion.
I am out, cheers.
Old 12th March 2017
  #4152
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Analogue Mastering's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolbass View Post
Here you go:

Anyone else thinking of leaving OSX/Apple?


Anyone else thinking of leaving OSX/Apple?


But I am not looking for a prolongued discussion.
I am out, cheers.
That's not bashing, those are facts.

Last edited by Analogue Mastering; 12th March 2017 at 01:14 PM..
Old 12th March 2017
  #4153
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering View Post
That's not bashing, those are facts.
And again you prove my point.
Old 12th March 2017
  #4154
Lives for gear
 
Analogue Mastering's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolbass View Post
And again you prove my point.
Seems you're not informed. Get yourself up to date on the current Apple line-up.
Old 12th March 2017
  #4155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoughlan View Post
Why are you so sure this won't happen? Ads make money. The only limit against running ads is the argument that ads harm the user experience, but even that isn't necessarily a problem as long as users aren't leaving the OS.

I guarantee you there's someone at MS who can't wait to see car and vacuum ads within W10 happen, and I guarantee they'll keep pushing for it.
Well I'm not sure in the sense that I'm sure that I'll go to the bathroom at some point today, but I'm very convinced it won't happen, and more importantly that what we saw wasn't really an indication of it. It's something else that people who hate MS and/or want to use to create clickbait use to create hyperbole. That's what it is primarily.
Old 12th March 2017
  #4156
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Mattiasync, if you can data mine from the Cloud, what do you think MS is doing? They are offering usage of their own tools in a limited fashion.

Azure: Data Mining in the Cloud | Reporting content from SQL Server Pro


As for ads, logging on to the net you expect ads and can address some of that with plugs like adblock. If MS put ads for their product when you got on the net via their browser it would be minor but MS pushing an ad to the desktop crosses a new line. MS has been crossing a lot of lines with Windows 10 while offering little to no benefit over it's prior products which has kind of been the point of much of this thread's discussions.

As for the actual cost paid for "free" Windows 10, given you surrender your Windows 7 / 8 licence in the process you consider the cost of that and add in the cost of loss of legal rights you once had with Windows 7 / 8 being considered a product under law which you now don't have under the new agreement. Now add the value of your personal data, that's at least another $40 a person given the amount companies are willing to spend via buyout of another company per recent financial news. Likely that amount is much more but companies selling personal data have never openly disclosed these values. It's still "Your Data" regardless of whether you never see a dime earned from it and thus an asset to be counted as lost. Once you total that up it may give you a different definition of "free".
Old 12th March 2017
  #4157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
Mattiasync, if you can data mine from the Cloud, what do you think MS is doing?
So basically MS is data mining our content on OneDrive and monetizing it and you know this because you "think" that's what they're doing because they can? Is that correct?

So you have absolutely zero evidence to present that it has been done yet you're convinced it's the case?

Speaking of the cloud the virtual sky is falling as well I'm sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
They are offering usage of their own tools in a limited fashion.

Azure: Data Mining in the Cloud | Reporting content from SQL Server Pro
Thanks for that 9-year-old article. Offering tools to customers so they can data mine their own cloud-stored data is hardly the same thing as evidence that MS is mining MY data and monetizing it, is it?

Seems like all you have now to show you're right is fear and a lack of a proven negative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
MS pushing an ad to the desktop crosses a new line.
Like I said; I get the same "experience" when I start up an older version of Pro Tools or reboot my Win7 computer and AdAware kindly explains that it'd be better for me to upgrade to a newer version (of their free software).... etc... and we could of course talk about other OS' services as well... if we chose to...

No, no "new line" crossed UNLESS MS decides to put third-party content in ads, like car ads or whatever. That would be news worthy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
MS has been crossing a lot of lines with Windows 10 while offering little to no benefit over it's prior products which has kind of been the point of much of this thread's discussions.

Little to no benefit to you. You're not everyone though. So far my experience with Windows 10, which has been on a laptop and mobile, has been positive. There definitely are benefits offered that Windows 7 doesn't have. Your blanket statement isn't really a logical argument unless your opinion is valid and applies to other people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
Now add the value of your personal data, that's at least another $40 a person given the amount companies are willing to spend via buyout of another company per recent financial news. Likely that amount is much more but companies selling personal data have never openly disclosed these values. It's still "Your Data" regardless of whether you never see a dime earned from it and thus an asset to be counted as lost. Once you total that up it may give you a different definition of "free".
Again: Show examples of Microsoft having sold personal data stored on the cloud.
Old 12th March 2017
  #4158
Lives for gear
 

Mattiasync, If I get some time over the next few days I'll do some digging to see what I can find but typically companies are going to great length to obscure exactly what info they mine, where exactly they grab it, who they sell it to, and how much they profit from it. This standard operating procedure was recently evidenced with a Google Echo recording a murder and Google putting up a legal battle to fight any disclosure of these details to the investigators. I provided a quick search link showing the means integrated to mine and MS has made statements concerning finance / stock about profiting from data. Is it that hard to put this info together? We will see if any MS employees chime back into this thread denying this practice which should indicate the answer too.

I'm happy that Win 10 is working for you but for many small businesses using a "Pro" edition of Windows, the concerns and issues raised throughout this thread are real and important. Maybe we need to focus more on the message and not the messenger as it's not my job to be Microsoft's watchdog. My role is to have a healthy discussion on the pros and cons of gear including computer OS and software which we use as gear in DAW usage.
Old 12th March 2017
  #4159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
Mattiasync, If I get some time over the next few days I'll do some digging to see what I can find but typically companies are going to great length to obscure exactly what info they mine, where exactly they grab it, who they sell it to, and how much they profit from it. This standard operating procedure was recently evidenced with a Google Echo recording a murder and Google putting up a legal battle to fight any disclosure of these details to the investigators. I provided a quick search link showing the means integrated to mine and MS has made statements concerning finance / stock about profiting from data. Is it that hard to put this info together? We will see if any MS employees chime back into this thread denying this practice which should indicate the answer too.

I'm happy that Win 10 is working for you but for many small businesses using a "Pro" edition of Windows, the concerns and issues raised throughout this thread are real and important. Maybe we need to focus more on the message and not the messenger as it's not my job to be Microsoft's watchdog. My role is to have a healthy discussion on the pros and cons of gear including computer OS and software which we use as gear in DAW usage.
I appreciate your attempts to have a healthy discussion. It's important to be skeptical and critical, especially of organizations that have such enormous power as MS. And as I understand it, the data stored on OneDrive is not encrypted in such a way that MS employees can't read it. The reason for this is that such encryption schemes would be impractical. So from a pure technical standpoint it is possible for MS to sell our data.

But I still believe that it wouldn't make business sense for them to sell data. MS are currently very focused on selling cloud services (that's the whole reason for this discussion!). If it became known that they covertly sell stored data it would be a disaster for that business.

There is an example from my country (Sweden). A tender for a platform for managing patient generated data was won a few years ago by a company using Azure services hosted by MS in Ireland. But MS was later ousted from this deal. I am not sure of the exact underlying reasons but I believe that the fact that the FBI was trying to make MS give up data hosted in Ireland was part of the problem. It's impossible to have a government sponsored system which has a risk that American authorities can access health information for Swedish citizens!

So. Selling data is bad for the kind of business MS is aiming for. If anyone wants to be scared of information getting in the wrong hands, the ones to be scared of nowadays are rouge governments. All the great powers today are run by very fishy leaders.
Old 12th March 2017
  #4160
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
Mattiasync, If I get some time over the next few days I'll do some digging to see what I can find but typically companies are going to great length to obscure exactly what info they mine, where exactly they grab it, who they sell it to, and how much they profit from it.
Ok, but that seems like you're starting with a conclusion and then you go hunting for evidence. Know what I mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
This standard operating procedure was recently evidenced with a Google Echo recording a murder and Google putting up a legal battle to fight any disclosure of these details to the investigators.
But that's not the same thing. Google fighting to keep data private is different from Google taking private data and monetizing that data.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
I provided a quick search link showing the means integrated to mine and MS has made statements concerning finance / stock about profiting from data. Is it that hard to put this info together?
And again, you keep talking about these mysterious cases without showing anything. Now it's "statements concerning finance / stock about profiting from data"... well, what does that mean?

The most obvious answer here is that MS is selling the means to store data on the cloud, that's a service. Now if you're a corporation and you're thinking about storing a bunch of data on OneDrive, what use is that if it's just a dumb dump? Of course, for backing up it's fine, but what if you need to do actual work on that data? Well, that's what the "mining" is for. If I'm a corporation and I upgrade my computers to Win 10 and integrate OneDrive because it's convenient, it would be even more convenient if MY company can access OUR data on OneDrive. WE mine it so that WE can monetize it.

That's what "putting this info together" tells me.

Don't you think MS would advertise to everyone that for a price you could mine data on other people's OneDrive accounts if that's what it meant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
We will see if any MS employees chime back into this thread denying this practice which should indicate the answer too.
Ok, but consider the following two:

1: What do you think the odds are that Pete's commented on this already in this very thread? Zero?

2: What do you think the odds are that if Pete comments on it, we'll be having the same conversation again in 6 months to a year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
I'm happy that Win 10 is working for you but for many small businesses using a "Pro" edition of Windows, the concerns and issues raised throughout this thread are real and important. Maybe we need to focus more on the message and not the messenger as it's not my job to be Microsoft's watchdog. My role is to have a healthy discussion on the pros and cons of gear including computer OS and software which we use as gear in DAW usage.
I'm totally agreeing with Thedberg here. It's in MS' interest to provide a secure platform for cloud storage. What MS is "monetizing" isn't the data, it's the service. The service is for us to store data in the cloud with great ease of use and with great security. Therefore, if MS sold the data to third parties it would directly work against that service.
Old 12th March 2017
  #4161
Deleted 4fa9684
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
This standard operating procedure was recently evidenced with a Google Echo recording a murder and Google putting up a legal battle to fight any disclosure of these details to the investigators.
This is Google trying to protect its users. We tend to think of investigators / police as good, but there are countries out there that would abuse a policy of handing over data to investigators by creating fake inquiries to spy on citizens. Google knows this and is fighting to protect that. Sometimes you have to make individual sacrifices for the greater good.

Quote:
My role is to have a healthy discussion on the pros and cons of gear including computer OS and software which we use as gear in DAW usage.
Maybe a new thread for the data retention/sale discussion? We're drifting away from W10 experiences.

To push us back:

I've been using a W10 / ProTools system for creative work for a few months now. For anyone who is thinking of building a system and using it for limited purposes, I can say that in my experience it has been steady and reliable. No driver issues, etc.

I only connect to the internet periodically (basically when I can afford to have an update do some damage), but I have yet to experience any issues after updates, which is reassuring.

Hoping for smooth Thunderbolt integration once I install my new interface. If that works, I'll keep this machine for as long as it runs.
Old 13th March 2017
  #4162
Quote:
Originally Posted by smccarthy945 View Post
... Nothing like Windows Update rebooting your machine in the middle of a studio session! ...
The Creators Update coming here in the next month or so makes some real progress in this area for folks running Pro.

- Longer active hours (18 per day) when there will be no automatic reboot
- You get prompted to "snooze" a reboot
- You can now shut down or restart without applying updates if you need to.
- You can freeze updating drivers
- You can easily pause updates for a week

These features are in the insiders builds already.

Pete
Old 13th March 2017
  #4163
The term "data mining" is a really broad term. In the context of privacy, without additional information, it's not very useful. For example, one could consider the collection of error telemetry, and the analysis to figure out what all the error reports have in common (a particular motherboard, for example) as data mining. But unless that information contains PII (Personally Identifiable Information), or linkable information (information that, when combined with other information, could potentially result in identification), it's not really a privacy concern.

I encourage folks to always be aware and skeptical, but also to ensure they know the facts.

This is the best place for factual information about what Microsoft collects and how it uses it.

https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/privacy

Quote:
We are working to earn your trust every day by focusing on six key privacy principles:

Control: We will put you in control of your privacy with easy-to-use tools and clear choices.
Transparency: We will be transparent about data collection and use so you can make informed decisions.
Security: We will protect the data you entrust to us through strong security and encryption.
Strong legal protections: We will respect your local privacy laws and fight for legal protection of your privacy as a fundamental human right.
No content-based targeting: We will not use your email, chat, files or other personal content to target ads to you.
Benefits to you: When we do collect data, we will use it to benefit you and to make your experiences better.
Every year, we (individuals at Microsoft) have to go through privacy training, including passing a basic test, to ensure we stay current.

When reading the full policy, keep in mind that our policy is not just for Windows, but also for our consumer cloud services (bing, mail, skype, etc.), browser, xbox, and more. Also keep in mind what the word "collect" means. Most of the things you do on the web involve, by necessity, collecting something. It might be payment information, login credentials, a document you intend to upload and store in a service, etc.

Here's the Windows 10-specific page
https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-US/windows10privacy

Quote:
We don’t use what you say in email, chat, video calls or voice mail, or your documents, photos or other personal files to choose which ads to show you.
Pete
Old 13th March 2017
  #4164
Deleted User
Guest
Hey Pete, since you're here, a quick question.
First of all hi everyone, my first post here, I opened a new account just because of this thread.

I must admit I am a Win7 fan and have resisted upgrading to both Win8 and Win10 because of many reasons.
However, I recently upgraded my PC and, since I got a 7700K CPU, I can't use Win7 anymore, I was forced to switch to 10.

Long story short, I did some research and have eventually stumbled upon the Enterprise LTSB edition.
It sounded like it's exactly what I need, so I got the trial from MS and installed it for a test and I so far I love it: it's all Win10 should have been, IMO.
No bloat, no background apps, I switched off updates, telemetry, Cortana, OneDrive and Defender and the system works beautifully when done like that.
It's exactly like Win7 now, but much snappier, I love it.

Now, my question: I'm aware of what kind of version LTSB is, but I still wonder if there is any way for an individual like me to buy a license for it?

EDIT: or, can my boss who has a registered business (I work for a known soundware label) buy it, as a business, e.g. 2 licenses, one for each of us?

Any tips and info?

I'm asking this because the available info on Enterprise licensing is very convoluted and beyond my grasp.

Cheers
Old 13th March 2017
  #4165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phasewarp View Post
Hey Pete, since you're here, a quick question.
First of all hi everyone, my first post here, I opened a new account just because of this thread.

I must admit I am a Win7 fan and have resisted upgrading to both Win8 and Win10 because of many reasons.
However, I recently upgraded my PC and, since I got a 7700K CPU, I can't use Win7 anymore, I was forced to switch to 10.

Long story short, I did some research and have eventually stumbled upon the Enterprise LTSB edition.
It sounded like it's exactly what I need, so I got the trial from MS and installed it for a test and I so far I love it: it's all Win10 should have been, IMO.
No bloat, no background apps, I switched off updates, telemetry, Cortana, OneDrive and Defender and the system works beautifully when done like that.
It's exactly like Win7 now, but much snappier, I love it.

Now, my question: I'm aware of what kind of version LTSB is, but I still wonder if there is any way for an individual like me to buy a license for it?

EDIT: or, can my boss who has a registered business (I work for a known soundware label) buy it, as a business, e.g. 2 licenses, one for each of us?

Any tips and info?

I'm asking this because the available info on Enterprise licensing is very convoluted and beyond my grasp.

Cheers
You can buy LTSB from any vendor which offers MS Windows licences. There are a lot of LTSB versions, you simply need the commercial one seat version. It is very expensive, it will set you back approx. 300€ (and then you still need a Pro or Enterprise license). But indeed it has full control and no update nagging.
Old 13th March 2017
  #4166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phasewarp View Post
Hey Pete, since you're here, a quick question.
First of all hi everyone, my first post here, I opened a new account just because of this thread.

I must admit I am a Win7 fan and have resisted upgrading to both Win8 and Win10 because of many reasons.
However, I recently upgraded my PC and, since I got a 7700K CPU, I can't use Win7 anymore, I was forced to switch to 10.

Long story short, I did some research and have eventually stumbled upon the Enterprise LTSB edition.
It sounded like it's exactly what I need, so I got the trial from MS and installed it for a test and I so far I love it: it's all Win10 should have been, IMO.
No bloat, no background apps, I switched off updates, telemetry, Cortana, OneDrive and Defender and the system works beautifully when done like that.
It's exactly like Win7 now, but much snappier, I love it.

Now, my question: I'm aware of what kind of version LTSB is, but I still wonder if there is any way for an individual like me to buy a license for it?

EDIT: or, can my boss who has a registered business (I work for a known soundware label) buy it, as a business, e.g. 2 licenses, one for each of us?

Any tips and info?

I'm asking this because the available info on Enterprise licensing is very convoluted and beyond my grasp.

Cheers
The recently-available subscription-based E3 and E5 licenses, which can be purchased for a minimum of one seat, do not support LTSB. They are CB (Current Branch) or CBB (Current Branch for Business) only, and start at $7/month.

CBB is basically the current branch, 3-6 months later.

Here's an article by MJF explaining the offering.
Microsoft's plan to move more small-business users to Windows 10 Enterprise | ZDNet

The reason it's difficult to find information for licensing Enterprise with LTSB is that it's generally not available to individuals or small businesses. If you can buy a single seat, it may require jumping through some hoops with a reseller, and be up to their discretion. Typically it is sold through volume license agreements with thousands of seats and centralized management.

Not my area of expertise, but as I recall, being on LTSB locks you into a zero-upgrade path. Any move becomes a complete reinstall. It's designed more for embedded systems and non-internet-connected mission critical devices. When you decide to upgrade, you pay full price again and do a pave/reinstall.

Release dates/versions:
https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/...ease-info.aspx

Sticking with LTSB means you won't get new features. For example, if you were on LTSB in summer 2015, you wouldn't have Bluetooth MIDI or Thunderbolt Audio on your PC. You also wouldn't have things we're releasing this spring in the Creators Update.

There are plenty of other recommendations in this thread from others regarding customizing Windows 10 Pro without doing something as drastic as going to Enterprise/LTSB. You need to weigh that.

Opinions obviously vary here, but I don't recommend turning off the store, because you won't get music-related apps we distribute through it. However, you can use group policy to control search, turn off Cortana, etc. which may be appropriate on a 100% DAW PC. I also discourage completely turning off telemetry, because in an industry as small as the pro audio one, every individual counts when it comes to bug reports and helping us understand which features to invest in, and which features aren't being used.

Pete
Old 13th March 2017
  #4167
Deleted User
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Thanks for the reply!
Yes that's exactly the impression I got about the LTSB regarding licensing, hence the question.

Regarding the missing features, that's exactly what I *do* like about it because none of the features or advantages you listed apply to nor interest me. LTSB would be perfect for my new setup, as I said I'm giving the trial version a spin now and I can, without any doubt, confirm it's the real deal for audio, it is exactly what I would expect a DAW-centric OS to behave and look like. Pure OS without bloat.

Pity it's so difficult to purchase one.

Anyway, cheers again for the info

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
The recently-available subscription-based E3 and E5 licenses, which can be purchased for a minimum of one seat, do not support LTSB. They are CB (Current Branch) or CBB (Current Branch for Business) only, and start at $7/month.

CBB is basically the current branch, 3-6 months later.

Here's an article by MJF explaining the offering.
Microsoft's plan to move more small-business users to Windows 10 Enterprise | ZDNet

The reason it's difficult to find information for licensing Enterprise with LTSB is that it's generally not available to individuals or small businesses. If you can buy a single seat, it may require jumping through some hoops with a reseller, and be up to their discretion. Typically it is sold through volume license agreements with thousands of seats and centralized management.

Not my area of expertise, but as I recall, being on LTSB locks you into a zero-upgrade path. Any move becomes a complete reinstall. It's designed more for embedded systems and non-internet-connected mission critical devices. When you decide to upgrade, you pay full price again and do a pave/reinstall.

Release dates/versions:
https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/...ease-info.aspx

Sticking with LTSB means you won't get new features. For example, if you were on LTSB in summer 2015, you wouldn't have Bluetooth MIDI or Thunderbolt Audio on your PC. You also wouldn't have things we're releasing this spring in the Creators Update.

There are plenty of other recommendations in this thread from others regarding customizing Windows 10 Pro without doing something as drastic as going to Enterprise/LTSB. You need to weigh that.

Opinions obviously vary here, but I don't recommend turning off the store, because you won't get music-related apps we distribute through it. However, you can use group policy to control search, turn off Cortana, etc. which may be appropriate on a 100% DAW PC. I also discourage completely turning off telemetry, because in an industry as small as the pro audio one, every individual counts when it comes to bug reports and helping us understand which features to invest in, and which features aren't being used.

Pete
Old 13th March 2017
  #4168
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
If I get some time over the next few days I'll do some digging to see what I can find

companies are going to great length to obscure exactly what info they mine, where exactly they grab it, who they sell it to, and how much they profit from it.

This standard operating procedure was recently evidenced with a


We will see if any MS employees chime back into this thread denying


I'm happy that Win 10 is working for you but for many small businesses using


My role is to have a healthy discussion on the pros and cons of gear including computer OS and software which we use as gear in DAW usage.
Yawn. Completely off-topic for this area. Put it on a more generic Windows discussion forum outside of GS or in the moan-zone.
Old 13th March 2017
  #4169
Lives for gear
 
TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phasewarp View Post

Regarding the missing features, that's exactly what I *do* like about it because none of the features or advantages you listed apply to nor interest me. LTSB would be perfect for my new setup, as I said I'm giving the trial version a spin now and I can, without any doubt, confirm it's the real deal for audio, it is exactly what I would expect a DAW-centric OS to behave and look like. Pure OS without bloat.
I agree also, FWIW.

We had that discussion quite a while back, a few of us were doing some preliminary R&D on the Enterprise Version ( which at the time didn't offer much over Pro, well nothing for our usage once I navigated and discovered some useful settings in the Group Policy ) and LTSB. You can get Pro stripped back almost to LTSB level with reasonable control over updates in 1511. Unfortunately the dots were shifting in regards the Group Policy at Anniversary Edition which neutered some useful parameters - i.e, they are available but ignored.

The reason there is little to no discussion re tweaks here is that everything gets drowned out in the white noise generated by a few that are on some kind of mission against anyone who dares voice a concern , so a lot gets lost in the mix.

I digress.

Old 14th March 2017
  #4170
Yeah. Might be good to have a separate, moderated, "Windows 10 Audio Tweaks" thread or something. This thread has folded in on itself many times already.

Pete
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