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Windows 10 is rolling out... share your experiences here
Old 10th January 2017
  #3871
I must say that as long as everything works correctly, the longer working hours, the 8-month up*grade* deferral and disabling automatic driver updates and panels, it comes down to security patches being updated off-hours. Sound acceptable to me, as you probably want them regularly anyway.
You can simply disable the update service if you don't want updates at all.
I just hope this stays this way, or better, an added option to manually trigger the updates, then life is perfect again.
Old 10th January 2017
  #3872
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Too bad about AMD. Nvidia stopped allowing that.
Old 12th January 2017
  #3873
Gear Head
 

I'm building a DAW machine soon (5820k, x99 build). Gonna be using Reaper. So should I go with windows 10 or 7? And home or pro?
Old 12th January 2017
  #3874
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicAtrocity View Post
I'm building a DAW machine soon (5820k, x99 build). Gonna be using Reaper. So should I go with windows 10 or 7? And home or pro?
I'm no expert, can just share my own experience from the past years:

Win XP (6 years): the first real music DAW OS by the MS
I skipped the Vista, luckily
Win 7 (4 years): very solid, very few bad cases, no "Win forced updating problems"
Win 8.1 (3 years): for my opinion as good as the Win 7 but the Win 10 "attack" ruined it partly
Win 10: (4 weeks), unfortunately I had to take just the home version, so far the most irrirating thing is the forced weekly Win updates, which I am afraid will fill my SSD in the future. Of course you cand try to manually control the updates but in practice you have two options, no updates at all or all the updates. An other very irritating feature is the present trend of all platforms of the "protectionism", making use of other than domestic software and services more complicated, Apple is of course the leading lady in this behaviour.
Otherwise Win 10 has many user friendly feature both Win 7 and Win 8.1 are missing. Downside is that my computer lacks the touchscreen and the mouse is too sensite which leads time to time to false commands. So far not any driver problems, and the only plugin incompability has been missing Speakerphone2 for Win 10/Live 9.

I would go to Win 10 Pro, if it is possible and economical option.
Old 12th January 2017
  #3875
Gear Maniac
 
aflon-telom's Avatar
 

I'm happy with 10. I disabled the update service and only flick it on every few months.
Old 12th January 2017
  #3876
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_O View Post
mouse is too sensite which leads time to time to false commands.
In the search box on the taskbar, type "mouse". "Mouse - Control Panel" should come up. You can set the speed there.

Pete
Old 12th January 2017
  #3877
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
In the search box on the taskbar, type "mouse". "Mouse - Control Panel" should come up. You can set the speed there.

Pete
Thank you for the hint, I changed now some of the mouse parameters to a bit slower, lets see how it feels in the use. To my opinion the mouse problems in Win started with the unfortunate planning of the "hybrid" UI for the Win, i.e. MS target was in the first place to move to the universal touchscreen UI, but made then a practical compromise because the reality was that just fractal of the user owned the touchscreen in laptops/desktops. The compromise was UI which was awful to the mouse users and clumsy as a touchscreen. Both the Win 7 and 8 suffer from this, 10 seems to be a bit better but not any UI triumph. I wonder what the hundreds of MS designers do all day long?
Old 12th January 2017
  #3878
Old 12th January 2017
  #3879
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_O View Post
Thank you for the hint, I changed now some of the mouse parameters to a bit slower, lets see how it feels in the use. To my opinion the mouse problems in Win started with the unfortunate planning of the "hybrid" UI for the Win, i.e. MS target was in the first place to move to the universal touchscreen UI, but made then a practical compromise because the reality was that just fractal of the user owned the touchscreen in laptops/desktops. The compromise was UI which was awful to the mouse users and clumsy as a touchscreen. Both the Win 7 and 8 suffer from this, 10 seems to be a bit better but not any UI triumph. I wonder what the hundreds of MS designers do all day long?
I don't quite get what you're saying, if it's related to mouse sensitivity.

Mouse and touchscreen are separate. Adding touchscreen support isn't what made the mouse seem to be too sensitive. It's completely unrelated.

If you're talking about how the UI looked/behaved with Windows 8, sure. I get that it was over optimized for touch and turned off a lot of folks.

There are some things coming in the Creators Update for Windows 10 that will help a bit more, including folders/groups in the start menu, similar to what we have on the phone. Here's a screenshot from mine from the latest insider build:



I have a 40" 4K screen, so I choose to have it two columns wide.

(Aside: I didn't notice until this screen shot that my DM12 just arrived. Woot!)

Taskbar is about the same as it was in Windows 7 in terms of sizing of items. You can use extra small taskbar buttons if you want. You can decide to show labels if you want.

Some folks think that the old ways are the best ways. But the huge cascading start menus we had with 95->XP were actually more mouse-hostile than any of the subsequent changes. As screen resolutions went up, those menus got deeper, and it became more difficult to use the mouse to navigate them. When you move the mouse left to right, you usually sweep an arc, not a straight line. On an 800x600 or 1024x768 screen, that's not a big deal. On 1920x1080 or 4k, it's a huge problem because you move off the hot spot and the menu closes.

You'll also find that if you rely on screen readers or other accessibility tools, that we've done a lot of work there.

Finally, one thing that gets overlooked a lot is the support for multiple desktops in Windows 10. It's the little three-rectangles "task view" button to the right of the search box. This is also very mouse and keyboard friendly.

So except for some over-optimization for touch on Windows 8 (it was a big bet we made), the designers have been busy, and they do use this stuff day in and day out. The builds they use are typically far earlier and less stable than the ones the public gets

I will say this: if not for the bets made during Windows 8, which moved the needle way too far out, we wouldn't be able to have bounced back to a point where we have the very successful Surface Book and Surface Studio. Despite it being in the box since XP Tablet Edition, developers weren't taking touch and pen seriously until Windows 8/8.1. You'll also find that if you looked at CES coverage this year, just about every laptop shown was fully touch-enabled.

But, again, nothing there has anything to do with mouse sensitivity.

Pete
Old 12th January 2017
  #3880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
There is a lot of incorrect info and assumptions in both of those links. That second one is especially full of uncited claims.

Treat it like you should treat any other reporting: look for credible cites for any claims being made.

The privacy updates *reduce* the amount of info sent, and make it more clear how to turn things on and off. There's also a place you can go to look at much of the information and clear it out. It's all in the original blog post.

While paranoia about the government is pretty reasonable, understand that Microsoft doesn't just give info to the government, nor are there built-in government back doors. We've resisted requests a number of times, in fact. Any info requires warrants, which must go through the courts. The government will get far more from your ISP, who must also comply with warrants.

These topics always become a hot mess here due to a conflation of beliefs with facts, so that's all I'll say on this latest round.

Pete
Old 12th January 2017
  #3881
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
I don't quite get what you're saying, if it's related to mouse sensitivity.

Mouse and touchscreen are separate. Adding touchscreen support isn't what made the mouse seem to be too sensitive. It's completely unrelated.

If you're talking about how the UI looked/behaved with Windows 8, sure. I get that it was over optimized for touch and turned off a lot of folks.

There are some things coming in the Creators Update for Windows 10 that will help a bit more, including folders/groups in the start menu, similar to what we have on the phone. Here's a screenshot from mine from the latest insider build:



I have a 40" 4K screen, so I choose to have it two columns wide.

(Aside: I didn't notice until this screen shot that my DM12 just arrived. Woot!)

Taskbar is about the same as it was in Windows 7 in terms of sizing of items. You can use extra small taskbar buttons if you want. You can decide to show labels if you want.

Some folks think that the old ways are the best ways. But the huge cascading start menus we had with 95->XP were actually more mouse-hostile than any of the subsequent changes. As screen resolutions went up, those menus got deeper, and it became more difficult to use the mouse to navigate them. When you move the mouse left to right, you usually sweep an arc, not a straight line. On an 800x600 or 1024x768 screen, that's not a big deal. On 1920x1080 or 4k, it's a huge problem because you move off the hot spot and the menu closes.

You'll also find that if you rely on screen readers or other accessibility tools, that we've done a lot of work there.

Finally, one thing that gets overlooked a lot is the support for multiple desktops in Windows 10. It's the little three-rectangles "task view" button to the right of the search box. This is also very mouse and keyboard friendly.

So except for some over-optimization for touch on Windows 8 (it was a big bet we made), the designers have been busy, and they do use this stuff day in and day out. The builds they use are typically far earlier and less stable than the ones the public gets

I will say this: if not for the bets made during Windows 8, which moved the needle way too far out, we wouldn't be able to have bounced back to a point where we have the very successful Surface Book and Surface Studio. Despite it being in the box since XP Tablet Edition, developers weren't taking touch and pen seriously until Windows 8/8.1. You'll also find that if you looked at CES coverage this year, just about every laptop shown was fully touch-enabled.

But, again, nothing there has anything to do with mouse sensitivity.

Pete
I was talking about how mouse-friendly (hostile) the tile-based UI was, especially in the Win 7/8. The tiles were originally planned for the touchscreen UI, and in the mouse use very unpractical, too sensible, triggered when you didn't want them to trigger, or did not trigger when they were supposed to.
I.e., mouse and touchscreen are not separate things, Win UI was/is supposed to work in both methods. But the UI implementation was/is not very succesful. Not to mention that the role of the tiles as active, modified elements stays unclear to most of the users, and are for most of the users just a hidden resource leakage, e.g. as a form if 24/7 news service, which is newer needed but not turned off.
To my opinion, the Win graphical design is not either very intuitive, cost-efficient or very elegant.
Old 12th January 2017
  #3882
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_O View Post
I was talking about how mouse-friendly (hostile) the tile-based UI was, especially in the Win 7/8. The tiles were originally planned for the touchscreen UI, and in the mouse use very unpractical, too sensible, triggered when you didn't want them to trigger, or did not trigger when they were supposed to.
I.e., mouse and touchscreen are not separate things, Win UI was/is supposed to work in both methods. But the UI implementation was/is not very succesful. Not to mention that the role of the tiles as active, modified elements stays unclear to most of the users, and are for most of the users just a hidden resource leakage, e.g. as a form if 24/7 news service, which is newer needed but not turned off.
To my opinion, the Win graphical design is not either very intuitive, cost-efficient or very elegant.
This is what is confusing me. Are we talking about the same thing? There were no tiles in 7.

The only real UI affordance made for touch in Windows 7 was slightly larger taskbar icons.



Your opinion on the UI is your opinion. No worries there. I just wanted to be clear that what you were saying about the mouse speed has nothing to do with touch. You had linked the two causally. They are completely separate.

Pete
Old 12th January 2017
  #3883
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
This is what is confusing me. Are we talking about the same thing? There were no tiles in 7.

The only real UI affordance made for touch in Windows 7 was slightly larger taskbar icons.



Your opinion on the UI is your opinion. No worries there. I just wanted to be clear that what you were saying about the mouse speed has nothing to do with touch. You had linked the two causally. They are completely separate.

Pete
My main point is that since the tiles are planned for the touchscreen use, moving the mouse over the tiles, which you can't avoid, launches, especially in the Win 8, but also to some degree in Win 8.1 and Win 10 the tile program. Adjusting the mouse sensibility may help in some degree but making the mouse slower/less sensible leads to other problem.
Old 12th January 2017
  #3884
Lives for gear
 
Yutaka's Avatar
 

I thought the new privacy policy actually complies with the European regulation?

Microsoft tries to soothe regulators and critics with new privacy controls | ZDNet
Old 12th January 2017
  #3885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_O View Post
My main point is that since the tiles are planned for the touchscreen use, moving the mouse over the tiles, which you can't avoid, launches, especially in the Win 8, but also to some degree in Win 8.1 and Win 10 the tile program. Adjusting the mouse sensibility may help in some degree but making the mouse slower/less sensible leads to other problem.
Moving the mouse over a tile of any sort should not launch the app.

In touch, there is no concept of movement or hover. Again, this is unrelated.

Are you actually using a touch/track pad and not a mouse? If so, most of those support "tap to click", which you can turn off on the PC if it also has hardware buttons or an actual clickable track pad (it's the only way to click with a trackpad on a Mac, though, so if you're running Windows on a Mac, you can't turn it off). That may be what you're running into.

I don't have a trackpad on this PC, so I can't paste in a screenshot of the settings.

If it's not a trackpad, but an actual mouse, and you're moving your mouse across the screen and it's clicking on things along the way, please let me know what make/model of mouse you're using.

Thanks.

Pete
Old 12th January 2017
  #3886
Lives for gear
 

Since when is ANY collection of data not authorized by specific consent of an end user not a violation of privacy and a violation of their control of their personal property regardless of whether personal ID has been stripped or not? Just put a complete "off" option in the thing, not a "sorta off" but even with user changes / settings / services shut down, MS is still going to be grabbing info. While you are at it make it so any update cannot change that user's choice unless the user themselves take specific clear consent actions to do so. Until that happens I'm staying well away from Windows 10 and as I suspect, anyone else who needs total control of their business tools will too. Now if it takes longer for MS to fix bugs because of that, the business world functioned fine with that for the decades prior.
Old 12th January 2017
  #3887
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
Since when is ANY collection of data not authorized by specific consent of an end user not a violation of privacy and a violation of their control of their personal property regardless of whether personal ID has been stripped or not?
I'm 99.99% certain that within the EULA there will be language that makes you consent. This whining about telemetry data being uploaded is getting pretty tedious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
Until that happens I'm staying well away from Windows 10 and as I suspect, anyone else who needs total control of their business tools will too. Now if it takes longer for MS to fix bugs because of that, the business world functioned fine with that for the decades prior.
Just for some reality checking which this so sorely needs:

I just switched from Yahoo's mail service to Outlook after it was recently revealed that in addition to the previous 500 Million hacked accounts another hack resulted in 1 BILLION accounts getting intruded in - including mine.

So, once similar security issues arise with Microsoft on a similar scale I'll reconsider my stance, but for now MS seems to take security very, very seriously, including slamming the breaks on what the government should be allowed to do with data stored on MS' overseas servers.
Old 12th January 2017
  #3888
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Microsoft takes security by far the most seriously of anybody I'm aware of.
Old 13th January 2017
  #3889
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
Since when is ANY collection of data not authorized by specific consent of an end user not a violation of privacy and a violation of their control of their personal property ....

It does indeed appear like you've never read the EULA. If one doesn't like the deal, don't click to install it. No pressure there.

You're not using Windows, so there you go. You have all the control.
Old 13th January 2017
  #3890
Lives for gear
 
wakestyle's Avatar
Another thing I noticed with Windows 10 is that drop + drop, eg .wav to plugin within DAW has worked well, but for some other reasons drag+drop for simple file editing in UWP (store apps) seems to universally not work...

Old 13th January 2017
  #3891
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakestyle View Post
Another thing I noticed with Windows 10 is that drop + drop, eg .wav to plugin within DAW has worked well, but for some other reasons drag+drop for simple file editing in UWP (store apps) seems to universally not work...

Yeah.

It's possible in UWP apps, but seems rare for devs to implement it, including our own.
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/win.../drag-and-drop

Drag & drop is always 100% the responsibility of the app developer on both sides. Desktop apps have had a lot of time for the devs to get around to things like that.

Pete
Old 13th January 2017
  #3892
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
I have a 40" 4K screen, so I choose to have it two columns wide.

(Aside: I didn't notice until this screen shot that my DM12 just arrived. Woot!)
Shrink it to one column and you'll have enough room to work on some synth memes...
Old 13th January 2017
  #3893
Lives for gear
 

First of all per high court rulings in both the US and EU, computer software that you buy is considered a PRODUCT, and as a product, established product law is in place which makes EULA's and TOS unenforcable under law (it's yours to do with as you wish, just like with any other product you buy)(this subject gets repeately brought up in Hackintosh threads so look there for the links to the high court rulings there if interested). To treat a EULA or TOS as the word of God is the mistake most make. As for free software or subscription software, that is a different matter as established rental law comes into play and thus a one sided non-signed agreement CAN be enforcable (this is a complication of how you obtained Windows 10)(this is why renting software is a bad idea in the long run - loss of established rights, and why free generally means that YOU are the product being sold).

As a software product I buy, I want full control over it just as with every other product I buy. I would equally not care for the toaster I buy to report back to it's maker my "toasting habits" for either it's resale for profit of that info or for it's own "internal processes" to make better toasters.

It's a specific choice that Microsoft is making by not having a simple total true "OFF" that is losing the goodwill of its long established business customers. I should not have to trust the security abilities of Microsoft at all if my data is never going out to them (BEST security practice). Additionally for those who choose to share data, why is there no sharing of the revenue generated from it? As music content creators we are well aware of when exploitation is in process, this is just data content explotation instead.
Old 13th January 2017
  #3894
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
First of all per high court rulings in both the US and EU, computer software that you buy is considered a PRODUCT, and as a product, established product law is in place which makes EULA's and TOS unenforcable under law (it's yours to do with as you wish, just like with any other product you buy)(this subject gets repeately brought up in Hackintosh threads so look there for the links to the high court rulings there if interested). To treat a EULA or TOS as the word of God is the mistake most make. As for free software or subscription software, that is a different matter as established rental law comes into play and thus a one sided non-signed agreement CAN be enforcable (this is a complication of how you obtained Windows 10)(this is why renting software is a bad idea in the long run - loss of established rights, and why free generally means that YOU are the product being sold).

As a software product I buy, I want full control over it just as with every other product I buy. I would equally not care for the toaster I buy to report back to it's maker my "toasting habits" for either it's resale for profit of that info or for it's own "internal processes" to make better toasters.

It's a specific choice that Microsoft is making by not having a simple total true "OFF" that is losing the goodwill of its long established business customers. I should not have to trust the security abilities of Microsoft at all if my data is never going out to them (BEST security practice). Additionally for those who choose to share data, why is there no sharing of the revenue generated from it? As music content creators we are well aware of when exploitation is in process, this is just data content explotation instead.
+ 1

It is depressing to see how easily people seem to let them be manipulated to the paradigm that its OK, even desirable, that the user has no or very limited control in how the ICT products and software behave. All that happened in the last 5 years - and the main reason is because there are not anymore competition between single products but ecosystems, and that means that the ecosystem owner has to be able control the whole chain of value to maximize their profits. And we just let that development run over us!
Old 13th January 2017
  #3895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_O View Post
+ 1

It is depressing to see how easily people seem to let them be manipulated to the paradigm that its OK, even desirable, that the user has no or very limited control in how the ICT products and software behave. All that happened in the last 5 years - and the main reason is because there are not anymore competition between single products but ecosystems, and that means that the ecosystem owner has to be able control the whole chain of value to maximize their profits. And we just let that development run over us!
You are of course free to dislike data collection practices. But your post implies that people like me - using Win 10 - are "manipulated". I strongly oppose that statement. I know full well (as well as I possible without access to source code) what Win 10 does and actively choose to use it.

Don't shove views like that on other people, thank you.
Old 13th January 2017
  #3896
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedberg View Post
You are of course free to dislike data collection practices. But your post implies that people like me - using Win 10 - are "manipulated". I strongly oppose that statement. I know full well (as well as I possible without access to source code) what Win 10 does and actively choose to use it.

Don't shove views like that on other people, thank you.
I think you got my main point wrong. My point of view was broader, not only 'data collection practicies' or using 'Win 10'. We are all victims of manipulation. Some people say 'I don't care as far as the things get done' or 'the integrated systems just helps us' or 'now thing are better than they used to be'. OK for me, as long as we understand and see what's happening. BTW, I got the Win 10, too, and see that the protectionism for the 'correct' ecosystem has taken an other big step from the previous MS OS.
Old 14th January 2017
  #3897
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_O View Post
I'm no expert, can just share my own experience from the past years:

Win XP (6 years): the first real music DAW OS by the MS
I skipped the Vista, luckily
Win 7 (4 years): very solid, very few bad cases, no "Win forced updating problems"
Win 8.1 (3 years): for my opinion as good as the Win 7 but the Win 10 "attack" ruined it partly
Win 10: (4 weeks), unfortunately I had to take just the home version, so far the most irrirating thing is the forced weekly Win updates, which I am afraid will fill my SSD in the future. Of course you cand try to manually control the updates but in practice you have two options, no updates at all or all the updates. An other very irritating feature is the present trend of all platforms of the "protectionism", making use of other than domestic software and services more complicated, Apple is of course the leading lady in this behaviour.
Otherwise Win 10 has many user friendly feature both Win 7 and Win 8.1 are missing. Downside is that my computer lacks the touchscreen and the mouse is too sensite which leads time to time to false commands. So far not any driver problems, and the only plugin incompability has been missing Speakerphone2 for Win 10/Live 9.

I would go to Win 10 Pro, if it is possible and economical option.
Hey, thanks for your reply. It seems that in terms of DAW operation (I'm using Reaper) windows 10 should be fine. I just want to ask though, why would Pro be better than Home? This is primarily a DAW machine. Is there something I'm missing here?
Old 14th January 2017
  #3898
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post

Since when is ANY collection of data not authorized by specific consent of an end user not a violation of privacy and a violation of their control of their personal property ....

First of all per high court rulings in both the US and EU, computer software that you buy is considered a PRODUCT, and as a product, established product law is in place which makes EULA's and TOS unenforcable under law..
so ....go ahead and file a lawsuit with the harm being your data was collected from your home computer running win10 and even though you clicked the eula to install windows, you're now filing the lawsuit because the agreement you clicked has been ruled not-valid in court X and so you should receive xx amount in damages because the type of data collected from your computer should not have been collected. How's that for one long, run-on sentence?

Go ahead, file the lawsuit and see where you land.

I am an attorney but I'll just chime in on this one as a guitar player....be sure to let us know how your lawsuit goes!

I can tell you the first thing that will slam it back in your face and be dismissed (with your out of pocket costs down the drain) but then.... I'm only a guitar player.
Old 14th January 2017
  #3899
Lives for gear
 
Analogue Mastering's Avatar
But you are wrong, you don't buy the product, you buy a useright/license. Where did you get the impression you bought Windows itself? You actually thought you own Windows now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
First of all per high court rulings in both the US and EU, computer software that you buy is considered a PRODUCT, and as a product, established product law is in place which makes EULA's and TOS unenforcable under law (it's yours to do with as you wish, just like with any other product you buy)(this subject gets repeately brought up in Hackintosh threads so look there for the links to the high court rulings there if interested). To treat a EULA or TOS as the word of God is the mistake most make. As for free software or subscription software, that is a different matter as established rental law comes into play and thus a one sided non-signed agreement CAN be enforcable (this is a complication of how you obtained Windows 10)(this is why renting software is a bad idea in the long run - loss of established rights, and why free generally means that YOU are the product being sold).

As a software product I buy, I want full control over it just as with every other product I buy. I would equally not care for the toaster I buy to report back to it's maker my "toasting habits" for either it's resale for profit of that info or for it's own "internal processes" to make better toasters.

It's a specific choice that Microsoft is making by not having a simple total true "OFF" that is losing the goodwill of its long established business customers. I should not have to trust the security abilities of Microsoft at all if my data is never going out to them (BEST security practice). Additionally for those who choose to share data, why is there no sharing of the revenue generated from it? As music content creators we are well aware of when exploitation is in process, this is just data content explotation instead.
Old 14th January 2017
  #3900
Lives for gear
 

Again, if you want to get into the legal details of software this has been very heavily discussed and linked to court rulings in the Hackintosh threads. No point in a rehash here or further FUD being spread, software you buy is considered a product, NOT a license despite whatever wording is in a TOS or EULA. Product law applies until those high court rulings are ever overturned.

thenoodle, as an attorney, you are well aware that there will likely be an onslaught of future cases regarding data gathering and data breaches (even I can see the positioning going on to do so). You likely are also well aware of the Supremacy clause which means that high court rulings are the law of the land regardless of local / state law in conflict. Lastly you likely are aware of the legal principle of "unjust enrichment" which could be used as the basis for any suit where revenue from data gathering is not shared with the content provider. I don't recommend that anybody file lawsuits, especially to test the waters but at the same time I don't see MS filing suits against customers who bought their software product for TOS or EULA violations either (knowing that anyone willing to fight them would win). The legal issues with Window 10 change if you got it for free or via subscription. If you got it that way then just bend over and grab your ankles. I personally think that if someone bought Windows 10, set it to their ability to stop data collection and found out MS was circumventing that (which we have seen reports of), then they would have a solid basis to file a non-frivolous lawsuit. As the standard cover your a** disclaimer goes, I am not however an attorney nor am I giving out any legal advice.

I'm still a Windows 7 user which I took steps to have control over the product right from the start, so I'm not anti MS. In fact I think that particular OS is the best available currently for a high performance DAW only box (best tool available for realtime pro audio). I do however want others to be fully aware of what they will give up if they choose to use Windows 10 though. Given repeated requests in this thread for any hard data that Windows 10 performs better for DAW usage, I've yet to see any data whatsoever. The only computer data I have seen is that Windows 10 has higher DPC latency over Windows 7 which may or may not mean worse DAW performance. Given those facts, for DAW usage I've yet to see a convincing arguement to use Windows 10. If any of you have data otherwise then post it.
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