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Who Uses Plugin Alliance?
Old 15th July 2019
  #4261
Gear Head
 
c0nan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volt9 View Post
Dirks message on FB:

Hi everybody, and I wanted to get back to you all after reading through a lot of your comments here.

I always knew that you guys are passionate about your plugins and your “deals”, so I understand there is some hefty emotional posts here right now. I’ll get to that in a second.

First of all, let me say again that I am sincerely sorry we ran into our email-gate this morning. After preparing everything so thoroughly for several weeks it’s frustrating for us as well to see these emails not working as intended. We have generated more than a Million codes this past week, and somewhere during that work somebody screwed up. To be honest, that somebody was probably me, although I still have a bit of hope that we will find out that our email system didn’t work correctly. But let’s face it, it was probably a human mistake.

Now, I see some pretty upset comments in these last threads. While I have to say I expected some of these, I am (to be frank again) surprised by just how strongly some people in this group are against our new ideas. The truth is though, you will see some consolidation in the plugin market in the future. This trend has already begun, and in the end we are doing what a tech company has to do: we are adapting to the changes around us.

When I started Brainworx 15 years ago plugins were sold at 999 EUR (no kidding) for a bx_digital TDM V1, for example. We didn’t sell high volume of these early plugins, mainly because of the missing reach we had and the missing market (I mean, how many people did own full blown TDM systems back then?). But the more powerful native systems become the more people want access to great plugins, and we are determined to stay relevant in this business for years to come.

I understand that some of you are not happy having spent hundreds of Dollars with us in the past (some even a few thousand Dollars), and we are trying to offer these guys the best offer going forward with a 50% off deal not just for this year (if they want to start a subscription with us), but that offer would actually stay in place until they would actively unsubscribe.

We also invested heavily into bringing you some really great plugins to kick off our new bundle, and we have already announced many new plugins still to be launched this year.

Lastly, we do indeed not force anybody to subscribe to the new bundle, of course. And a lot of you have received codes today that would enable you to buy all 6 new plugins at $65 per plugin in average, if you buy them all. Then you can still use the monthly voucher codes, to bring your price for the 6 new plugins down, all the way down to $315, which is $52.50 per plugin, including new top plugins like Shadow Hills, Focusrite, Ampeg, Purple Audio etc.

We have said this before: we are not stopping to sell perpetual licenses. But we also can’t guarantee that we will be sending out 24H Flash Sale vouchers forever and every day, if that’s just not what we look at as a sustainable business anymore. After all, as a company we also have a responsibility towards 30+ employees, plus 28 partner companies and their employees and families.

This group has a tendency of tagging me personally about everything and anything that’s being asked or said here. While this is often funny and flattering, people seem to forget that this is not just “me” doing everything at PA. I own the company, so I take responsibility, but I am not alone.

We will continue our mission to enable lots of people around the globe to sound their best, and we’ll make it affordable, just like in the past. And we’ll try and cater for everyone.

As you can imagine we are signing up tons of people for the new subscription service right now (thank you!), and I hope that we can convince as many of you as possible in the next few months that the MEGA bundle is actually amazing value for what you pay. Ultimately we are aware though that no matter how hard we try we can never satisfy every single one of you.

Thank you again to everybody who has helped to make PA what it is today, and thank you for everybody who decides to continue to support us going forward.

And a sincere apology again for the less-than-perfect launch campaign today, that was certainly not great. I guess it was human though, and I hope you all understand.

Best wishes to all of you,

Dirk.
I wish the first half would have been his first simple and clear statement regarding the subscription instead of the marketing overkill over the last month or two. I´m sure it wouldn´t have backfired as it did now (although the idea of having the sale of all times a month before having people rent the very same plugins still is very odd).
BUT: The paragraph about the intro pricing of the new plugins is in the same ballpark of what´s going wrong. It´s a nice "Milchmädchenrechnung" (no clue about the translation) to come down to 53$, when I actually have to pay 200+ for the Comps or the Focusrite CS. I see they need to make money and I totally get they have to take a different route after literally giving their plugins away with all those vouchers and whatnot, but this is stuff that aggravates me. I kinda feel sorry for them because I believe Dirk is really passionate about his brand, but this is just so unnecessary and a little painful to see, ´cause their plugins are amazing.
Old 15th July 2019
  #4262
Lives for gear
 
Synth Buddha's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pops Martin View Post
100% strict NO SUBSCRIPTION policy here …
Same here. Sure, I'll always be renting certain things that make little sense to own considering costs, how often I'll need them and how much space they take up etc. But to rent plugins, which cost very little and will probably be in use regularly for a fairly long time - and take up no space, makes very close to zero sense to me. And given how ridiculously cheap they've become to buy in recent years we're talking even less sense than that.

Besides, I don't like paying for things I don't need.I don't even want more stuff than I need if it's for free. And in all these big bundles there's lots of stuff I don't need. Sure, I guess that would be less the case for someone just starting out and not having much to work with at all, but if I was in that position I'd still just buy one or two pieces at a time during sales and build up slowly. Having a lot more gear than you need, whether it's real or "virtual" gear, is not a good thing. Owning a few great pieces that you really know inside and out is going to be a ton more useful than owning a hundred that you don't and constantly trying out new things because it's "fun." The whole kid in a candy shop thing is highly overrated when it comes to music production. It's not just a matter of quality of quantity here - it's that high quantities are downright counterproductive. When you get to a certain point, you will probably find that less is more. Nobody needs 50 compressors and 75 EQs, and having them just because you can isn't as good an idea as it may seem.

And you know what would suck? To rent lots of stuff month after month year after year. And then after all those years find that you don't own ****. There's a reason people actually like to buy their houses. Now, one could make the argument that it's plugins we're talking about here, and unlike your house your plugins will at some point be obsolete in the future. And that's a fair argument for sure. But I still use a bunch of plugins I bought a very long time ago. The Vintage Warmers, the Inflators, softsynths like Trillian and Stylus RMX (that's 10 years or more now, without a cent having been paid for updates) etc. I'm actually really happy I didn't rent those things. That would probably not have been a good deal for me. And the Acustica Audio Acqua plugins I own aren't just the best, most authentic sounding emulations in my plugin arsenal, but they keep getting upgraded for free, thus getting better and better year by year without me paying so much as a cent for updates. I even get 45% off everything I buy from them now because I own a bunch of their stuff. That way of being taken care of as a customer is to me vastly preferable to having to pay a fee too have access to tons of plugins for a period of time, most of which I probably have very little use for.

Renting to own can be a good thing, though, of course. Like the rent to own thing that Steve Duda has going with Serum. Won't cost you any more than buying the thing because Steve Duda doesn't run sales anyway - you can't just buy Serum for 29 bucks every once in a while. But I just bought Townhouse for 29 bucks a couple of weeks ago. And it's a decent compressor. I'm happy to own it now. And happy I didn't rent it.

Last edited by Synth Buddha; 15th July 2019 at 06:46 PM..
Old 15th July 2019
  #4263
Gear Head
Gee, how did I know that week's worth of "This is so crazy huge and awesome you're all going to explode" was entirely prefatory to an announcement of a . . . subscription model. *yawn*
Old 15th July 2019
  #4264
Lives for gear
 
Ragan's Avatar
 

Glad I scooped up a few great things in the sale.

Zero interest in a subscription. It's a non-starter.

If they have sales in the future, I'll take a peek. If they don't, I won't.


Also, framing these things as if they're some massive event in the history of audio processing is...cringeworthy.

I suppose they have to try and gin up a big commotion to try and distract everyone from the fact that subscriptions are better for the seller and worse for the buyer. If that wasn't the case, these companies wouldn't risk all their accumulated brand loyalty by alienating everyone as they attempt to push people into subscription.

Oh well. Yawn. PA has a handful of really great plugins and thanks to the sales, I already have them. I've got zero reason to get locked into the never-ending rental thing with them.
Old 15th July 2019
  #4265
Lives for gear
 
vze26m98's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by c0nan View Post
It´s a nice "Milchmädchenrechnung" (no clue about the translation)...
Wonderful phrase! I assume it’s something like “Dairy-maid’s arithmetic” or “Dairy-maid’s accounting”.
Old 15th July 2019
  #4266
Lives for gear
 

Darn I got all the plugins I wanted besides the vsc2
Old 15th July 2019
  #4267
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin III View Post
Darn I got all the plugins I wanted besides the vsc2
https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=528570

I am not that seller by the way, I just saw that earlier.
Old 15th July 2019
  #4268
Gear Guru
I got the deal of a lifetime last month Townhouse for $9-, I'm a happy guy!

Be a shame if the flash sales disappear. I honestly have so many plug ins, need a few years to learn how to use them properly, so gotta be really tempting......
Old 15th July 2019
  #4269
Gear Head
 
Constant_K's Avatar
 

"We have said this before: we are not stopping to sell perpetual licenses. But we also can’t guarantee that we will be sending out 24H Flash Sale vouchers forever and every day, if that’s just not what we look at as a sustainable business anymore."

There it is people. Sail on you crazy diamonds...

I guess there will be sales until the lower subscription price hits, then I'd imagine the monthly vouchers will stop. Let's hope we can get some real value before then.

It was nice while it lasted but all good things they say never last.

Late stage capitalism: I wonder if I could subscribe to a wife...
Old 15th July 2019
  #4270
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant_K View Post
"We have said this before: we are not stopping to sell perpetual licenses. But we also can’t guarantee that we will be sending out 24H Flash Sale vouchers forever and every day, if that’s just not what we look at as a sustainable business anymore."

There it is people. Sail on you crazy diamonds...

I guess there will be sales until the lower subscription price hits, then I'd imagine the monthly vouchers will stop. Let's hope we can get some real value before then.

It was nice while it lasted but all good things they say never last.

Late stage capitalism: I wonder if I could subscribe to a wife...
Of course you can! just send me on your details and i'll have her in the post first thing in the morning after she has cooked breakfast and cleaned out that bloody septic tank again. Not cheap, mind you.
Old 15th July 2019
  #4271
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant_K View Post
"We have said this before: we are not stopping to sell perpetual licenses. But we also can’t guarantee that we will be sending out 24H Flash Sale vouchers forever and every day, if that’s just not what we look at as a sustainable business anymore."
My favorite bit of nonsense here is all this talk about how "feedback from users" is driving them toward this.

You know what was really fun? Watching carefully, and then snagging some cool bit of kit for $29. That was a blast.

Who are the people out there saying, "You know, if only -- instead of doing that -- I could have PA ding my credit card for $250 bucks a year!"

These guys are trying to run a business, and if this makes better financial sense for them, then fine. But trying to pass it off as the "cry of the people" is just obnoxious.
Old 15th July 2019
  #4272
Gear Guru
Waving transfer fees would be a great way of helping people get into subscription if the already have a bunch of plug ins, but I'd imaging there'd be iLok fees also?
Old 15th July 2019
  #4273
Lives for gear
 
mamm7215's Avatar
I'm not into subscriptions but with the voucher and coupons I did just pick up DSM V3 for $0 so THANKS Plugin Alliance. I'm super happy about that!
Old 15th July 2019
  #4274
Gear Addict
 
Mortal Engines's Avatar
 

I may actually spend something close to $179 a year at PA, but that doesn’t mean I want to do it in perpetuity. I get to keep my plugs, and I’m not sure if I really need to have absolutely everything they sell (blasphemy, I know).
Old 15th July 2019
  #4275
Gear Addict
 
Volt9's Avatar
What I really would like to know if there is a phase out period or something for for the loyal customers?

I build up my vouchers knowing they had value for a coming year period. It seems there is less value with the big prices now? It is not really interesting anymore after already a year of spending a lot and lots of money.

Will there be still some flash sales or better deals than this coming?

And why is that not clear to the loyal customers?
Old 15th July 2019
  #4276
Gear Head
 
Constant_K's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pquinn View Post
Of course you can! just send me on your details and i'll have her in the post first thing in the morning after she has cooked breakfast and cleaned out that bloody septic tank again. Not cheap, mind you.
I would lose all the benefits of ownership... I'll see myself out.
Old 15th July 2019
  #4277
Gear Guru
You better hope the Alliance holds. Slate has this problem using other products. Kush doesn't. Be pretty awful if you have unfiltered stuff all over your mixes and they drop out of the subscription model, and charge full boat..... That is the ONLY downside of subscriptions with multiple companies involved....
Old 15th July 2019
  #4278
Lives for gear
 
musicman691's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volt9 View Post
Dirks message on FB:

Hi everybody, and I wanted to get back to you all after reading through a lot of your comments here.

I always knew that you guys are passionate about your plugins and your “deals”, so I understand there is some hefty emotional posts here right now. I’ll get to that in a second.

First of all, let me say again that I am sincerely sorry we ran into our email-gate this morning. After preparing everything so thoroughly for several weeks it’s frustrating for us as well to see these emails not working as intended. We have generated more than a Million codes this past week, and somewhere during that work somebody screwed up. To be honest, that somebody was probably me, although I still have a bit of hope that we will find out that our email system didn’t work correctly. But let’s face it, it was probably a human mistake.

Now, I see some pretty upset comments in these last threads. While I have to say I expected some of these, I am (to be frank again) surprised by just how strongly some people in this group are against our new ideas. The truth is though, you will see some consolidation in the plugin market in the future. This trend has already begun, and in the end we are doing what a tech company has to do: we are adapting to the changes around us.

When I started Brainworx 15 years ago plugins were sold at 999 EUR (no kidding) for a bx_digital TDM V1, for example. We didn’t sell high volume of these early plugins, mainly because of the missing reach we had and the missing market (I mean, how many people did own full blown TDM systems back then?). But the more powerful native systems become the more people want access to great plugins, and we are determined to stay relevant in this business for years to come.

I understand that some of you are not happy having spent hundreds of Dollars with us in the past (some even a few thousand Dollars), and we are trying to offer these guys the best offer going forward with a 50% off deal not just for this year (if they want to start a subscription with us), but that offer would actually stay in place until they would actively unsubscribe.

We also invested heavily into bringing you some really great plugins to kick off our new bundle, and we have already announced many new plugins still to be launched this year.

Lastly, we do indeed not force anybody to subscribe to the new bundle, of course. And a lot of you have received codes today that would enable you to buy all 6 new plugins at $65 per plugin in average, if you buy them all. Then you can still use the monthly voucher codes, to bring your price for the 6 new plugins down, all the way down to $315, which is $52.50 per plugin, including new top plugins like Shadow Hills, Focusrite, Ampeg, Purple Audio etc.

We have said this before: we are not stopping to sell perpetual licenses. But we also can’t guarantee that we will be sending out 24H Flash Sale vouchers forever and every day, if that’s just not what we look at as a sustainable business anymore. After all, as a company we also have a responsibility towards 30+ employees, plus 28 partner companies and their employees and families.

This group has a tendency of tagging me personally about everything and anything that’s being asked or said here. While this is often funny and flattering, people seem to forget that this is not just “me” doing everything at PA. I own the company, so I take responsibility, but I am not alone.

We will continue our mission to enable lots of people around the globe to sound their best, and we’ll make it affordable, just like in the past. And we’ll try and cater for everyone.

As you can imagine we are signing up tons of people for the new subscription service right now (thank you!), and I hope that we can convince as many of you as possible in the next few months that the MEGA bundle is actually amazing value for what you pay. Ultimately we are aware though that no matter how hard we try we can never satisfy every single one of you.

Thank you again to everybody who has helped to make PA what it is today, and thank you for everybody who decides to continue to support us going forward.

And a sincere apology again for the less-than-perfect launch campaign today, that was certainly not great. I guess it was human though, and I hope you all understand.

Best wishes to all of you,

Dirk.
Thanks brother for posting this as not everyone here does Fakebook. A lot of what Dirk wrote is very similar to what was written about PickPack when it came out. If the Mega Bundle is so good do those of us who already own plugins that are in there do we get credit for what we own? Sure as hell doesn't seem like it as apparently everyone is getting the same heavy hitter discount. So much for what they wrote in the email about the pricing be adjusted specific to each person.
Old 15th July 2019
  #4279
Gear Addict
 
Volt9's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
You better hope the Alliance holds. Slate has this problem using other products. Kush doesn't. Be pretty awful if you have unfiltered stuff all over your mixes and they drop out of the subscription model, and charge full boat..... That is the ONLY downside of subscriptions with multiple companies involved....
They have that covered. They say the plugins stay in there as long as you are registered and that is guaranteed.
Old 15th July 2019
  #4280
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin III View Post
Darn I got all the plugins I wanted besides the vsc2
How much would you pay for the VSC2? I have it and love it, but might be grabbing the native VSC3 and EQ. Of course having someone to buy the VSC2 would help me move on that, so let me know.
Old 15th July 2019
  #4281
Lives for gear
 
musicman691's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volt9 View Post
They have that covered. They say the plugins stay in there as long as you are registered and that is guaranteed.
And they stay good to use even if say the developer pulls out of the subscription model? If that happens I can see getting charged full boat for the UA plugins you want to keep.

I do NOT trust PA and Dirk anymore.
Old 15th July 2019
  #4282
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volt9 View Post
They have that covered. They say the plugins stay in there as long as you are registered and that is guaranteed.
So if any third party vendors decides to not be part of PIA, that's covered? When Slate dropped his amp sim partnership it wasn't. Maybe different but.....
Old 15th July 2019
  #4283
Gear Addict
 
Volt9's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
So if any third party vendors decides to not be part of PIA, that's covered? When Slate dropped his amp sim partnership it wasn't. Maybe different but.....
Plugin Guarantee!
We have seen other subscription bundles lose individual plugins over time. In such a case users would have to buy the plugin that's suddenly missing (if it's even available separately), or they simply cannot properly open and bounce their existing sessions anymore. We decided that this would be a no-go for PA subscription services. So we took action:

We have agreements in place with ALL our Alliance partners that will prevent plugins from dropping out of the MEGA bundle!
Once you start subscribing to our MEGA Bundle you will be able to use ALL of the plugins you pay for, for as long as you are an active member.
Should any plugin be discontinued for any reason while you are actively subscribed, even if a partner company went out of business, you'll get a lifelong license for that plugin, free of charge, and we'll provide the legacy installers for you for years!
This also goes for ALL plugins that we will be adding while you are actively subscribed.
Guaranteed!
Old 15th July 2019
  #4284
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
So if any third party vendors decides to not be part of PIA, that's covered? When Slate dropped his amp sim partnership it wasn't. Maybe different but.....
Vertigo Sound decided to make their own plugs after a while, with the VSC-3 and VSE2 sold on their own website instead of being part of the alliance. That didn't stop PA from still selling the Vertigo VSC-2.

DS Audio used to sell their own synth their own way, and when they decided to join the allance, sold the "new version" there.

From that previous experience, I'd speculate the same kind of deal would be likely if a developer wanted out: keep the version you have on PA, but future products/versions to be purchased elsewhere.
Old 15th July 2019
  #4285
Gear Maniac
 
captaink's Avatar
 

Can you use a voucher for the transfer fee when buying a SH copy of a plugin?
Old 15th July 2019
  #4286
Lives for gear
 
musicman691's Avatar
In the realm of not trusting PA to keep their word - is there any way to save what get's downloaded when one does a full install of all their PA plugins through the installation manager? I like to keep installers of all my stuff and with what's going on with PA I want to be safe.

As a side note I like the PIA acronym for Plugin Alliance but there's another set of words that that acronym stands for which seems to be appropriate for what's going on: Pain In Arse
Old 15th July 2019
  #4287
I still use CamelPhat and CamelSpace because I own the original VST files.

What happens if Apple buy PIA in the future. What happens to your subscription account then?
Old 15th July 2019
  #4288
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by johngarden View Post
I still use CamelPhat and CamelSpace because I own the original VST files.

What happens if Apple buy PIA in the future. What happens to your subscription account then?
My guess is you'll still be using Camel.....and PIA will be SOL......!

I do hope this ain't the end of deals
Old 15th July 2019
  #4289
Lives for gear
 
mutetourettes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by captaink View Post
Can you use a voucher for the transfer fee when buying a SH copy of a plugin?
I believe you can / could but i’ve never tried
Old 15th July 2019
  #4290
Lives for gear
 
mutetourettes's Avatar
 

Do you have to be online for this new subscription dystopia?
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